6 ARC - Anyone Regret It? Also considering 22 ARC

[rlsmith1]

Anyone regret jumping in with a 6 ARC in an AR? Was listening to the Hornady podcast and one of the guys has a 16” 6 ARC shooting the new 80gr V-Match at 2780 (factory is over 3k in a 24” tube). This bullet makes me really like the idea of the 6 ARC.

Any reason to not go to it? Thoughts on the 22 ARC?

My requirements are:
- factory ammo (I reload some but not enough to shoot hand loads exclusively)
- 800 to 1000 yds supersonic range
- small frame AR
- anchor coyotes well out to 600 yds or so (I know, guys kill them with 17 HMRs and 204s)

 

[shadowwolffe]

6mm arc ballistics look like it does really well in short barrels, but I've seen wierd gas tube lengths from some barrel manufacturers.

22 arc seems wierd to me. 22 arc came from 6mm arc from 6.5 Grendel from 6.5 ppc from 22 ppc from 220 Russian. How diffrent is 22 ARC from 220 Russian/22PPC?

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

6mm arc ballistics look like it does really well in short barrels, but I've seen wierd gas tube lengths from some barrel manufacturers.

22 arc seems wierd to me. 22 arc came from 6mm arc from 6.5 Grendel from 6.5 ppc from 22 ppc from 220 Russian. How diffrent is 22 ARC from 220 Russian/22PPC?

About the same difference as a 260 rem and a 6.5cm, or a .308 and a 30tc. I could go on. It's all about the marketing.

 

[FuhQ]

I don't have one in an AR, but I have a 16.5" bolt-action 6mm ARC and I really like the little cartridge. I was a diehard 6.5 Grendel fan since the very beginning of its existence in the very early 2000's. But I was skeptical about the 6mm ARC because I am not a 6mm fan, but I also had no idea that companies were offering 110-115gr 6mm bullets now. Once I found that out, I figured I'd try one. I have plenty of AR's, but didn't want one in an AR because despite having a DMR rig (AR) in 6.5 Grendel, I always thought the cartridge would excel in a bolt-action platform. Then I found out that @christensenarms makes an MPR in 6mm ARC, and my local store had one in stock, so I bought it. It's really grown on me, the more I mess around with it. ZERO recoil, and flat-shooting. Not to mention the ballistics are phenomenal with the high BC of a 115gr Nosler RDF that leaves the muzzle at almost 2,600 FPS. I wouldn't have a problem shooting whitetail deer at a couple hundred yards with it.

I handload for everything, so I'm running Nosler 115 RDF's backed by LeverEvolution powder, in Hornady brass with CCI 400 primers. Runs great for me. I'm pushing them up around 2,575 FPS MV. MUCH hotter than an AR can handle, so don't attempt to do this in an AR. There's a reason there's AR data and Bolt data separate. The AR can't handle that much pressure without a CF.

 

[Tex68w]

I'd still like to pick up a 6ARC but I'd like for one of the major factory brands to put out a quality build. Slap a dedicated thermal optic on it and sit for 'yotes. But the same can be done with a 6Creedmoor bolt gun and a clip on so who knows.

 

[FuhQ]

I'd still like to pick up a 6ARC but I'd like for one of the major factory brands to put out a quality build. Slap a dedicated thermal optic on it and sit for 'yotes. But the same can be done with a 6Creedmoor bolt gun and a clip on so who knows.

Like these...

Black, Brown, or Tungsten... Take your pick...

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Black Anodized Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03044-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Black Anodized Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03044-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Desert Brown Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03045-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Desert Brown Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03045-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Tungsten Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03054-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Tungsten Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03054-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

For now it has a Burris XTR-III 5.5-30x56 SCR2 MIL, but it will soon have a thermal on it...For coyote and varmint hunting.

Same group, with and without the shot I pulled (my fault, not the gun's)...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I haven’t regretted it yet because I haven’t done it yet. I keep getting a wild hair for a 6ARC and each time seem to lay down quietly until it goes away which is probably for the best.

Between being limited to only Hornady ammo offerings which have let me down many many times, users reporting they’re dirty AF even unsuppressed, and having plenty of issues with Grendel and 6AR I keep getting turned off.

Like these...

Black, Brown, or Tungsten... Take your pick...

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Black Anodized Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03044-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Black Anodized Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03044-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Desert Brown Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03045-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Desert Brown Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03045-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Tungsten Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03054-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Tungsten Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03054-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

For now it has a Burris XTR-III 5.5-30x56 SCR2 MIL, but it will soon have a thermal on it...For coyote and varmint hunting.

View attachment 8270171

Same group, with and without the shot I pulled (my fault, not the gun's)...

View attachment 8270172View attachment 8270173

You missed the “quality build” part of his requirements. Shitty Christensens lack that.

 

[Ronin22]

What BCG to get that will support the 6ARC pressures?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Are you planning on 52KSI or higher?

 

[Tex68w]

Like these...

Black, Brown, or Tungsten... Take your pick...

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Black Anodized Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03044-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Black Anodized Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03044-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Desert Brown Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03045-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Desert Brown Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03045-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Tungsten Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03054-00

Christensen Arms Modern Precision Rifle 6mm ARC 16" 1:7.5" Bbl Tungsten Cerakote Folding Rifle w/FFT M-LOK Handguard 801-03054-00 For Sale

www.eurooptic.com

For now it has a Burris XTR-III 5.5-30x56 SCR2 MIL, but it will soon have a thermal on it...For coyote and varmint hunting.

View attachment 8270171

Same group, with and without the shot I pulled (my fault, not the gun's)...

View attachment 8270172View attachment 8270173

Ehh, I haven't had the best track record with their products in the past. I meant a major player like KAC, LMT, DD, etc. Geissele should have their's out one of these days but it won't be cheap.

 

[tomcatfan]

I don't regret it one bit. I've made hits out to 1000 ydswith a small frame AR which I was really happy with. I don't have much interest in the 22 ARC as my ruger rpr in 223does well out to 1000 yds with 80 gr elds.

 

[YotaEer]

No ragerts. Love that i replaced my 6.5G barrel with 6 arc in my AR and will upgrade that one to a proof CF.

Next build after that will be a 6 arc bolt gun. Hopefully on an aero solus if they ever release that bolt face.

 

[Ledzep]

Between being limited to only Hornady ammo offerings which have let me down many many times, users reporting they’re dirty AF even unsuppressed, and having plenty of issues with Grendel and 6AR I keep getting turned off.

We've been working with our powder supplier to get more consistent accuracy and cleaner burn. Earlier this year (late summer/fall) we made a switch to a new powder that should be significantly cleaner.


As far as the OP's question and me and the 6 ARC, I'm all in no ragerts. I've got 7 bolt action barrels spun up and broken in for PRS and other similar style matches. A guy can expect 4000-5000 rounds out of those. This year I got 2nd place for the season in PRS gas gun with 6mm ARC and the gas gun squad was almost a 50/50 split for 6mm ARC small frame vs. various large frame guns. I ran factory blems for the first 3 matches of the season. Several top-10 placing in NRL/PRS 2-day matches with it in a bolt gun. It's my current go-to in a 16" AR-15 for deer and smaller hunting. Big fan-- and other than NRL hunter where I need power factor to qualify, it's been a 6.5 creedmoor replacement for me. 90-95% of the trajectory with less recoil. Obviously I'm in a unique position for availability, but that is generally calming down hopefully (until next year....), but for the shooting I do it covers 85% of everything and I've got a other guns for that last 15%.

 

[db2000]

It’s been a lot of fun developing loads. Mine loves 58 gr VMAX. Also shoots Berger heavies pretty well.

 

[j-dubya]

Has the magazine situation stabilized as to what is reliable and what has shown to have any issues? I haven’t been active on here in a couple of years, but back then when 6arc was just getting going, a member here turned me on to the e-lander mags as they were the best at the time. This included supposedly DOD testing. What is the current go-to?

 

[Ronin22]

Are you planning on 52KSI or higher?

52PSI

 

[YotaEer]

Has the magazine situation stabilized as to what is reliable and what has shown to have any issues? I haven’t been active on here in a couple of years, but back then when 6arc was just getting going, a member here turned me on to the e-lander mags as they were the best at the time. This included supposedly DOD testing. What is the current go-to?

I’ve had no issue with Grendel elander mags with my 18” rifle +1 6 arc barrel. I’m only 25 thou off the lands

Never had an issue with them and various 6.5 Grendel factory or reloads either.

 

[rlsmith1]

We've been working with our powder supplier to get more consistent accuracy and cleaner burn. Earlier this year (late summer/fall) we made a switch to a new powder that should be significantly cleaner.


As far as the OP's question and me and the 6 ARC, I'm all in no ragerts. I've got 7 bolt action barrels spun up and broken in for PRS and other similar style matches. A guy can expect 4000-5000 rounds out of those. This year I got 2nd place for the season in PRS gas gun with 6mm ARC and the gas gun squad was almost a 50/50 split for 6mm ARC small frame vs. various large frame guns. I ran factory blems for the first 3 matches of the season. Several top-10 placing in NRL/PRS 2-day matches with it in a bolt gun. It's my current go-to in a 16" AR-15 for deer and smaller hunting. Big fan-- and other than NRL hunter where I need power factor to qualify, it's been a 6.5 creedmoor replacement for me. 90-95% of the trajectory with less recoil. Obviously I'm in a unique position for availability, but that is generally calming down hopefully (until next year....), but for the shooting I do it covers 85% of everything and I've got a other guns for that last 15%.

I have a feeling I heard you on the podcast then, thanks for chiming in! If you were to build one rig purpose built for night yotes, would you do a 6 or 22? I really want to keep barrel length to 18” or 20”.

My hang up on the 6 ARC is when I compare it to the 20” 556 I already have. Essentially both cartridges are shooting a ~0.2 G7 BC at 2850 fps (77 SMK and 80 ELD-VT). Of course I would expect better expansion / energy transfer from the ELD-VT which isn’t something that shows up on the drop tables. I need to run those same drop tables for the 60 VMAX to see how far behind it is after 400 yds. Of course the 22 ARC improves on both speed wise, but it’s still a 62gr 22 cal bullet. Currently, I am running either a 20” 556 or 22” 6 CM bolt gun for yotes. The AR is lighter (6mm is a switch barrel) which I love.


For those asking, yes 52k PSI (AR system) and I’m not terribly concerned about components because Craddock Precision is making both ARC flavors for ARs

 

[redneckbmxer24]

We've been working with our powder supplier to get more consistent accuracy and cleaner burn. Earlier this year (late summer/fall) we made a switch to a new powder that should be significantly cleaner.


As far as the OP's question and me and the 6 ARC, I'm all in no ragerts. I've got 7 bolt action barrels spun up and broken in for PRS and other similar style matches. A guy can expect 4000-5000 rounds out of those. This year I got 2nd place for the season in PRS gas gun with 6mm ARC and the gas gun squad was almost a 50/50 split for 6mm ARC small frame vs. various large frame guns. I ran factory blems for the first 3 matches of the season. Several top-10 placing in NRL/PRS 2-day matches with it in a bolt gun. It's my current go-to in a 16" AR-15 for deer and smaller hunting. Big fan-- and other than NRL hunter where I need power factor to qualify, it's been a 6.5 creedmoor replacement for me. 90-95% of the trajectory with less recoil. Obviously I'm in a unique position for availability, but that is generally calming down hopefully (until next year....), but for the shooting I do it covers 85% of everything and I've got a other guns for that last 15%.

Does the Vmatch ammo use the new propellant? Can you share any velocity data on it from gas guns?

 

[Jsp556]

I wasted money on 2 barrels and a good bit of ammo. I tried all of the factory ammo and none shot as good as my Grendel’s. I ended up giving one of the barrels and brass away and the other is collecting dust in the closet. I’m glad I didn’t get rid of any of my Grendel stuff.

 

[db2000]

I wasted money on 2 barrels and a good bit of ammo. I tried all of the factory ammo and none shot as good as my Grendel’s. I ended up giving one of the barrels and brass away and the other is collecting dust in the closet. I’m glad I didn’t get rid of any of my Grendel stuff.

Dang. That sucks. I lucked out and got a decent Shaw 18”. It even shoots 105 gr Hornady Black pretty good.

 

[supercorndogs]

6mm arc ballistics look like it does really well in short barrels, but I've seen wierd gas tube lengths from some barrel manufacturers.

22 arc seems wierd to me. 22 arc came from 6mm arc from 6.5 Grendel from 6.5 ppc from 22 ppc from 220 Russian. How diffrent is 22 ARC from 220 Russian/22PPC?

I would say extremely diffrent if you're looking to shoot factory ammo.

 

[JBattles]

If you are looking for a compete setup, check out the Seekins Precision DMR in 6ARC. Reasonable price and a quality build out of the box. You can buy Hornady factory ammo 103,105,108 and all shoot well. I load for it and shoot Berger 95 VLDs with Lever power. I upgraded a few things to my preference, but it doesn’t need anything. The 20 rd ASC 6.5 Grendel mags work well and allow me to load longer rounds.

I have the same rifle from them in 18” 223 Wylde and the 6ARC is ballistically superior in an AR platform. Both are below. I have some suggestions on what I changed if you are interested.

 

[Jsp556]

Dang. That sucks. I lucked out and got a decent Shaw 18”. It even shoots 105 gr Hornady Black pretty good.
View attachment 8270503

Glad yours is shooting well.

 

[Ledzep]

I have a feeling I heard you on the podcast then, thanks for chiming in! If you were to build one rig purpose built for night yotes, would you do a 6 or 22? I really want to keep barrel length to 18” or 20”.

My hang up on the 6 ARC is when I compare it to the 20” 556 I already have. Essentially both cartridges are shooting a ~0.2 G7 BC at 2850 fps (77 SMK and 80 ELD-VT). Of course I would expect better expansion / energy transfer from the ELD-VT which isn’t something that shows up on the drop tables. I need to run those same drop tables for the 60 VMAX to see how far behind it is after 400 yds. Of course the 22 ARC improves on both speed wise, but it’s still a 62gr 22 cal bullet. Currently, I am running either a 20” 556 or 22” 6 CM bolt gun for yotes. The AR is lighter (6mm is a switch barrel) which I love.


For those asking, yes 52k PSI (AR system) and I’m not terribly concerned about components because Craddock Precision is making both ARC flavors for ARs

BC and velocity might be a little more different than you think. .364 G1 (smk) vs. .448 G1 (80 eldvt) will add up in a hurry and for the same barrel length the 6 ARC should push the same weight class bullet faster. Terminal results will be noticeably better with the ELD-VT.

That said, for a dedicated thermal varmint rig, 22 ARC will probably be better suited. The 62gr V-match stuff is point and shoot out to 350yd with a ~220yd zero. I don't intend to do PRS Gas gun again in the foreseeable future, so I'm in the process of stripping the weight out of that rifle and setting it up to be a dedicated thermal 22 ARC hopefully in time to smack some dogs this winter.

You might have a little better luck with the 6 ARC for hogs, and probably will with deer, but the 80gr .224 ELD-X we just released is a mean little bullet, too. Really comes down to personal preference, where you hunt and what you're going after. No doubt there is a good bit of use-case overlap between the two.

Does the Vmatch ammo use the new propellant? Can you share any velocity data on it from gas guns?

V-match ammo (22 ARC and 6 ARC anyway) will be mostly loaded with a slightly different family of powders that have been significantly cleaner yet, and have superb temp stability. Velocity will be ~20-25fps per inch of barrel regardless of gas gun or bolt gun. Roughly 100fps every 4 inches of barrel and all of the published velocities for V-match are 24" barrels I believe.

 

[ma smith]

What BCG to get that will support the 6ARC pressures?

64k question.

What happens when you mill out the .378 boltface, espanding into a .444 and keep the pressure the same?

Maybe, you increase the bolt thrust on a weaker bolt?

Thrust is the force applied to a surface in a direction that is normal or perpendicular to the surface, whereas pressure is the thrust or force applied to a unit area of surface.

There was at one time a line of thinking that the AR lacks sufficient internal volume for better bolt.

Not sure if the technology has improved or not...maybe someone will chime in with more info.

 

[alamo5000]

I've seen wierd gas tube lengths from some barrel manufacturers.

There is a reason for that. Please keep in mind that I'm only speculating based on my own observations.

I too noticed those longer than normal gas tube lengths. However when I had a custom barrel made I chose to get a standard rifle length setup.

My speculation is that with certain powders + the case volume and some other mystery factors, it 'can' over power the gas system. This is especially true when running suppressed.

So depending on a whole host of factors such as the specific load data and so forth with a regular length gas tube you could need to add 'non standard' buffer weights or springs.

Essentially it's not the end of the world by any means, but in certain circumstances you would just have to tune it the same exact way as you would when you have an over gassed situation.

If you have a dedicated lower then it's a non issue to just tune it once and be done with it. That said, in order to just use a 'standard lower' (meaning all 'mil spec's components-- particularly the buffer and spring) those longer gas lengths give you that option.

To be clear this isn't universal, but with SOME loads in SOME rifles this would basically be true.

Those +1 and +2 gas lengths are a good happy medium, particularly for those who don't want to mess with swapping parts (regardless of how easy it is).

 

[Ronws]

I'd still like to pick up a 6ARC but I'd like for one of the major factory brands to put out a quality build. Slap a dedicated thermal optic on it and sit for 'yotes. But the same can be done with a 6Creedmoor bolt gun and a clip on so who knows.

Kyle at the Social Regressive did a series on his 6 mm ARC from CMMG.

 

[45-90]

I like the 6 mm ARC, I have two ARs with Proof SS barrels they are accurate...not so with the BA barrel.
Might as well just use the 5.56 as the 22 ARC, not enought case to make a difference, and losing 5.56 brass when varminting no big deal.
The 8.6 Blackout was at least somewhat regretful to totally regretful, as I am rebarreling the ridiculous 3 twist for a 6.5 twist 338 barrel.

 

[Tex68w]

I like the 6 mm ARC, I have two ARs with Proof SS barrels they are accurate...not so with the BA barrel.
Might as well just use the 5.56 as the 22 ARC, not enought case to make a difference, and losing 5.56 brass when varminting no big deal.
The 8.6 Blackout was at least somewhat regretful to totally regretful, as I am rebarreling the ridiculous 3 twist for a 6.5 twist 338 barrel.

Not a fan of the 8.6?

 

[FuhQ]

Ehh, I haven't had the best track record with their products in the past. I meant a major player like KAC, LMT, DD, etc. Geissele should have their's out one of these days but it won't be cheap.

The folks over @christensenarms have a whole new team, and are completely revamping and upgrading everything, including their production and designs. My 6mm ARC went back due to a weird group inconsistency issue, and they sent me back a whole new rifle, built by their senior gunsmith, and tested it for accuracy before sending it out. The new one shoots lights-out. Honestly, I have 5 of their rifles and they have come a long way. This is the only one that has had any issues. And all them now shoot amazing. Most of mine shoot 1/4-1/3 MOA groups with handloads. I'm not trying to sell you on them, just saying, they've revamped everything company-wide, and are doing some great things now (at least from my experiences). Give it a shot, and if it's got an issue, Jimmy in their CS department will be sure it gets fixed and you get taken care of.

 

[FuhQ]

Next build after that will be a 6 arc bolt gun. Hopefully on an aero solus if they ever release that bolt face.

Hoping they release those as well with a short pull length bolt, and keep it using the same full-size 700 SA footprint for ease of use, and MDT AICS 6 ARC mags. Kind of like the RimX and Vudoo .22LR's do.

 

[Tex68w]

The folks over @christensenarms have a whole new team, and are completely revamping and upgrading everything, including their production and designs. My 6mm ARC went back due to a weird group inconsistency issue, and they sent me back a whole new rifle, built by their senior gunsmith, and tested it for accuracy before sending it out. The new one shoots lights-out. Honestly, I have 5 of their rifles and they have come a long way. This is the only one that has had any issues. And all them now shoot amazing. Most of mine shoot 1/4-1/3 MOA groups with handloads. I'm not trying to sell you on them, just saying, they've revamped everything company-wide, and are doing some great things now (at least from my experiences). Give it a shot, and if it's got an issue, Jimmy in their CS department will be sure it gets fixed and you get taken care of.

Good to know, they needed a change like that because the feedback they have been getting for years now wasn't flattering. I'll be sure to take a look at one next time I come across one in a LGS.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The folks over @christensenarms have a whole new team, and are completely revamping and upgrading everything, including their production and designs. My 6mm ARC went back due to a weird group inconsistency issue, and they sent me back a whole new rifle, built by their senior gunsmith, and tested it for accuracy before sending it out. The new one shoots lights-out. Honestly, I have 5 of their rifles and they have come a long way. This is the only one that has had any issues. And all them now shoot amazing. Most of mine shoot 1/4-1/3 MOA groups with handloads. I'm not trying to sell you on them, just saying, they've revamped everything company-wide, and are doing some great things now (at least from my experiences). Give it a shot, and if it's got an issue, Jimmy in their CS department will be sure it gets fixed and you get taken care of.

That’s literally the same exact line of bullshit they fed me when I got a fucked up MPR with short headspace and had to send it back and they replaced the barrel instead of reaming it like I had requested and the new barrel shot 4MOA.

Christensen sucks donkey dick. People are still receiving fucked up guns that don’t shoot and won’t chamber factory ammo.

 

[45-90]

Not a fan of the 8.6?

Nope, not with the Faxon 3 twist, but I haven't totally given up, I own a 8.6 reamer and have ordered a 6.5 twist 338 barrel blank, and will go in a trued Rem 700 action ready to go...instead of the AR 10. To see its real accuracy potential with the 300 gr Bergers and SMKs. I can always take off the Faxon barrel extension and rechamber the Rem 700 barrel for the AR 10 ...if I end up liking the cartridge.
I try most any cartridge once, out of curiosity, so I had to try the 3 twist. For me it doesn't work, inaccurate, and extremely limited, making it way more expensive to shoot, than it needs to be.
I want to shoot cheap Speer or Hornady lead 200gr and 225 gr, or 160 to 180 gr bullets super sonic and go sub sonic or super sonic with the 300 gr match with some accuracy, and no blow ups that cause destruction of "my stuff."

 

[db2000]

That’s literally the same exact line of bullshit they fed me when I got a fucked up MPR with short headspace and had to send it back and they replaced the barrel instead of reaming it like I had requested and the new barrel shot 4MOA.

Christensen sucks donkey dick. People are still receiving fucked up guns that don’t shoot and won’t chamber factory ammo.

Hard to believe 4 moa. Just saying. They test them before sending them out. I sent my MPR back due to a little play in the joint of the folding stock. They replaced that and also a new bolt and barrel. I thought it shot fine 1 moa with my loads, but they said it wasn’t up to their standard. They took that upon their self. That’s my reasoning for saying this. They also paid the shipping both ways and had this done in 2 weeks. Pre-Covid though.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Hard to believe 4 moa. Just saying. They test them before sending them out. I sent my MPR back due to a little play in the joint of the folding stock. They replaced that and also a new bolt and barrel. I thought it shot fine 1 moa with my loads, but they said it wasn’t up to their standard. They took that upon their self. That’s my reasoning for saying this. They also paid the shipping both ways and had this done in 2 weeks. Pre-Covid though.

Well they sent me a 4MOA gun back. Then replaced the whole rifle with a new rifle that I sold immediately and have never looked back. They’re garbage.

 

[Ronin22]

64k question.

What happens when you mill out the .378 boltface, espanding into a .444 and keep the pressure the same?

Maybe, you increase the bolt thrust on a weaker bolt?



There was at one time a line of thinking that the AR lacks sufficient internal volume for better bolt.

Not sure if the technology has improved or not...maybe someone will chime in with more info.

Apparently there are people shooing 6ARC with success. I discovered the Grendel Type II bolt .136" depth bolt face is the best.

 

[Ronws]

I like the 6 mm ARC, I have two ARs with Proof SS barrels they are accurate...not so with the BA barrel.
Might as well just use the 5.56 as the 22 ARC, not enought case to make a difference, and losing 5.56 brass when varminting no big deal.
The 8.6 Blackout was at least somewhat regretful to totally regretful, as I am rebarreling the ridiculous 3 twist for a 6.5 twist 338 barrel.

Agreed. Even though I am a Hornady fan boy and drank the koolaid on their 7 mm PRC, I won't bother with a 22 ARC. I have from Windham Weaponry the Dissipator M4 A3 in 5.56 and it came from the factory with a combat zero. I mean, walked to the desk at the range / FFL that I was using for that transaction, transferred it, paid the range fee (indoor) and went into the range. Pulled it out of the box, no cleaning. Loaded up a mag. first shot with iron sights. Dead on the nut at 25 yards.

Great personal defense and it was my secondary carry (primary EDC is my S&W M&P M2.0 in 9 mm) during the mostly peaceful protests.

And I have taken it hog hunting but I will probably stick with my Windham Weaponry R16SFST-308 (AR-10) in 7.62 x 51 mm NATO for feral hogs.

 

[rlsmith1]

BC and velocity might be a little more different than you think. .364 G1 (smk) vs. .448 G1 (80 eldvt) will add up in a hurry and for the same barrel length the 6 ARC should push the same weight class bullet faster. Terminal results will be noticeably better with the ELD-VT.

That said, for a dedicated thermal varmint rig, 22 ARC will probably be better suited. The 62gr V-match stuff is point and shoot out to 350yd with a ~220yd zero. I don't intend to do PRS Gas gun again in the foreseeable future, so I'm in the process of stripping the weight out of that rifle and setting it up to be a dedicated thermal 22 ARC hopefully in time to smack some dogs this winter.

You might have a little better luck with the 6 ARC for hogs, and probably will with deer, but the 80gr .224 ELD-X we just released is a mean little bullet, too. Really comes down to personal preference, where you hunt and what you're going after. No doubt there is a good bit of use-case overlap between the two.




V-match ammo (22 ARC and 6 ARC anyway) will be mostly loaded with a slightly different family of powders that have been significantly cleaner yet, and have superb temp stability. Velocity will be ~20-25fps per inch of barrel regardless of gas gun or bolt gun. Roughly 100fps every 4 inches of barrel and all of the published velocities for V-match are 24" barrels I believe.

Thanks! After looking a little closer, I was probably being a little too general. Litz uses a g7 BC of 0.189 for the 77 SMK. Your site lists a g7 BC of 0.206 for the 80 ELD-VT (g1 BC listed at 0.410 FYI). The ARC is supersonic for another 100 yds and has about 0.2 MIL less drift at 500-700 yds which is nice.

What is the expansion threshold for the 80 ELD-VT?

Any idea on factory ballpark velocity for the 80 ELD-VT from an 18” and 20” barrel? Do you have similar figures for the factory 108’s?



I won’t bother you with your opinion on Christensen, no idea how they got drug into this thread!

 

[Ledzep]

You're right on the 80gr ELDVT BC! My apologies, got wires crossed with the 100gr 6.5mm. I can get you velocities tomorrow.

Expansion gets hit or miss below about 1900-2000fps with the ELD-VT's. For most applications/cartridges that ends up being 350-500yd.

 

[Ledzep]

Any idea on factory ballpark velocity for the 80 ELD-VT from an 18” and 20” barrel? Do you have similar figures for the factory 108’s?

80gr at 24" will be a shade over 3,000. Imagine 2850-2900 in an 18-20" barrel.
108's should be 2750 in a 24" barrel and usually end up 2575-2650 in 18-20" barrels.

 

[db2000]

80gr at 24" will be a shade over 3,000. Imagine 2850-2900 in an 18-20" barrel.
108's should be 2750 in a 24" barrel and usually end up 2575-2650 in 18-20" barrels.

Seems right. I get 2670 with 29.5 LVR and Berger 108’s from my 18” Seekins gasser.
3500 w/ 32.3 LVR and 58 gr VMAX

 

[YotaEer]

Seems right. I get 2670 with 29.5 LVR and Berger 108’s from my 18” Seekins gasser.

2650 for me with 29.4gr of LVR and 108 ELDs. 18" vortakt ar15 barrel.

I'd be very happy with 2850+ for the 80gr ELD-VT factory ammo in the same gun. Would convert that upper fully to night thermal use

 

[christensenarms]

That’s literally the same exact line of bullshit they fed me when I got a fucked up MPR with short headspace and had to send it back and they replaced the barrel instead of reaming it like I had requested and the new barrel shot 4MOA.

Christensen sucks donkey dick. People are still receiving fucked up guns that don’t shoot and won’t chamber factory ammo.

Like others have said, It is a whole new team here for a reason. If you would like us to take a look at whatever the previous team had done please shoot me a message and I will see what I can do. Unfortunately their can still be old guns sitting at dealers and we won't know about an issue on those until that dealer sells that rifle. If you talk to anyone who has been in contact with myself or the new team that came on September 4th, 2023 they can tell you how they were taken care of. Unfortunately, I can't help people who don't want to be helped and just want to trash talk.

Very respectfully,
Jimmy

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Like others have said, It is a whole new team here for a reason. If you would like us to take a look at whatever the previous team had done please shoot me a message and I will see what I can do. Unfortunately their can still be old guns sitting at dealers and we won't know about an issue on those until that dealer sells that rifle. If you talk to anyone who has been in contact with myself or the new team that came on September 4th, 2023 they can tell you how they were taken care of. Unfortunately, I can't help people who don't want to be helped and just want to trash talk.

Very respectfully,
Jimmy

So after putting out garbage for two decades we’re to believe everything has been turned around in a little over a month? LOL

The guys I dealt with there were Jeff and Jeremy and I don’t recall who the dumbass gunsmith was that couldn’t read the request to ream the existing barrel that shot pretty well but just had short headspace (.003” short of SAMMI min) and just replaced it like the trained monkey he was and sent out a gun with a new barrel that had supposedly been test fired and ended up shooting 4” groups.

Regardless, I wasted my money or your junk and took a loss after a lot of head scratching and wasted time so I have every right to talk trash about your garbage products.

 

[rlsmith1]

80gr at 24" will be a shade over 3,000. Imagine 2850-2900 in an 18-20" barrel.
108's should be 2750 in a 24" barrel and usually end up 2575-2650 in 18-20" barrels.

That's fantastic!

 

[rlsmith1]

So after putting out garbage for two decades we’re to believe everything has been turned around in a little over a month? LOL

The guys I dealt with there were Jeff and Jeremy and I don’t recall who the dumbass gunsmith was that couldn’t read the request to ream the existing barrel that shot pretty well but just had short headspace (.003” short of SAMMI min) and just replaced it like the trained monkey he was and sent out a gun with a new barrel that had supposedly been test fired and ended up shooting 4” groups.

Regardless, I wasted my money or your junk and took a loss after a lot of head scratching and wasted time so I have every right to talk trash about your garbage products.

Start your own thread to air everything out please. @FuhQ I'm interested in a gas gun here and will likely use Craddock for the barrel. Thanks guys.

 

[Vynz]

I’m extremely pleased with my 6ARC AR-15. It’s pieced together using a 16” BSF barrel, SLR adjustable gas block, and JP BCG/SCS in an Aero Enhanced Upper, and ADM lower. I’m using both ASC 6ARC (Red Follower) and 6.5Grendel (blue follower) 10round, and 25 round mags at full capacity without any functional issues in 500 rounds. The rifle shoots 0.7 MOA groups with Hornady 108gr ELD-M.

If I was starting over I definitely do the 6ARC AR-15 again. I use it much more than my 6.5Creedmoor AR-10. In fact I’d probably do the 6ARC AR-15, skip the AR-10 completely and get a bolt in 6.5PRC.

 

[rlsmith1]

I’m extremely pleased with my 6ARC AR-15. It’s pieced together using a 16” BSF barrel, SLR adjustable gas block, and JP BCG/SCS in an Aero Enhanced Upper, and ADM lower. I’m using both ASC 6ARC (Red Follower) and 6.5Grendel (blue follower) 10round, and 25 round mags at full capacity without any functional issues in 500 rounds. The rifle shoots 0.7 MOA groups with Hornady 108gr ELD-M.

If I was starting over I definitely do the 6ARC AR-15 again. I use it much more than my 6.5Creedmoor AR-10. In fact I’d probably do the 6ARC AR-15, skip the AR-10 completely and get a bolt in 6.5PRC.

I've got an 18" 6.5 Creed that will be interesting to compare to. My 6 CM bolt gun is safe and sound for sure though!

Just spoke to Paul at Craddock and will be getting an 18" 6 ARC from him when the time comes. Thanks for all the input everyone!