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Right?!?I'd kill for a Tikka mini action in this, .223, etc, etc.
Excellent, the 6 mm ARC can be very accurate in an AR, learn to hand load and usually get even better groups, tailored to your barrel.Pretty happy with Gap15 6arc.
100yds with rifle in an RRS Vyce tripod from standing. Hornady 103 eldx factory ammo.
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My only regret with it is going with 16" barrel and that's barely a regret. It's more of a curiosity causer than anything. Considering you can get consistent hits at 1k with the 16, it makes me curious at how much better a 20" would be.Anyone regret jumping in with a 6 ARC in an AR? Was listening to the Hornady podcast and one of the guys has a 16” 6 ARC shooting the new 80gr V-Match at 2780 (factory is over 3k in a 24” tube). This bullet makes me really like the idea of the 6 ARC.
Any reason to not go to it? Thoughts on the 22 ARC?
My requirements are:
- factory ammo (I reload some but not enough to shoot hand loads exclusively)
- 800 to 1000 yds supersonic range
- small frame AR
- anchor coyotes well out to 600 yds or so (I know, guys kill them with 17 HMRs and 204s)
Here is my thought. And someone could tell me I am an idiot and they would be right. In fact, my first post here as an introduction, I said I would be the stupidest person here.Update. Still didnt even come close to pressure on new brass before I ran out of capacity with aa2520. Numbers look promising. Some groups are okay. I think a seating depth test could help with this powder.
29.7 still looks like a solid contender even though its a little slower.
30.2 is a great group but I don't like the groups on either side of it...
30.5 has good numbers and good speeds with no pressure signs still.
People do it all time. Different loads for different applications, the right tool for the job. You're not going to use the same loading for hunting at 500 as you would for ringing steel at 1k. Could you work up a load for ringing steel at 1k that is also good for hunting at 500? Sure, but it's kinda like running all season tires instead of dedicated summer/winter setups.Here is my thought. And someone could tell me I am an idiot and they would be right. In fact, my first post here as an introduction, I said I would be the stupidest person here.
So far, I have lived up to that claim.
Anyway, I am reminded of the scene from "Days of Thunder" where Robert Duvall's character talks to the car and outlines the adjustments that will be made. Each race track has idosyncracies that must be dealt with. For example, a slight drop coming out of turn 4, or something like that. So, they can adjust the alignment and camber. Even the tightness of the suspension. Different tires on different wheels. All to make the car really grip the track and turn left a bunch of times.
In that same vein, can one have different loads depending on the job, specifically by distance? One combo works great to maybe 500 yards. But is maybe too light to do well at a thousand. Then, you choose different slug weights, maybe even slug styles, and then, of course, different seating depths, different powders in different amounts.
Anyway, just spit-ballling. What I know about reloading will not fill a sewing thimble your tiny grandma uses.
Thanks. Reminds me of a friend who was from Saginaw, Michigan (RIP.) When he lived up there, it was common to have two sets of tires, or at least tire chains. He would have a set of winter tires that he put on in November and they stayed on until April. Then he had the summer set.People do it all time. Different loads for different applications, the right tool for the job. You're not going to use the same loading for hunting at 500 as you would for ringing steel at 1k. Could you work up a load for ringing steel at 1k that is also good for hunting at 500? Sure, but it's kinda like running all season tires instead of dedicated summer/winter setups.
Need to be careful with that. Target bullets and hunting bullets are engineered differently.Thanks. Reminds me of a friend who was from Saginaw, Michigan (RIP.) When he lived up there, it was common to have two sets of tires, or at least tire chains. He would have a set of winter tires that he put on in November and they stayed on until April. Then he had the summer set.
Anyway, I kind of feel that way, too. My hunting cartridge is an ELD-X. If I wanted to do long range target shooting, I might change to an ELD-M. I know people are getting game animals with ELD-M. And might win a contest with an ELD-X.
Update. Still didnt even come close to pressure on new brass before I ran out of capacity with aa2520. Numbers look promising. Some groups are okay. I think a seating depth test could help with this powder.
29.7 still looks like a solid contender even though its a little slower.
30.2 is a great group but I don't like the groups on either side of it...
30.5 has good numbers and good speeds with no pressure signs still.
I have been watching episodes of Texas Predator Hunting podcast. Wade Chandler (Ally Munitions in Midland, Texas) gives a glowing review for using 6 ARC for predator hunting. Obviously, in the semi-automatic set-up.I own a 6mm ARC bolt gun and don't regret it one bit (see below). Matter of fact I love the precision! That said I will most definitely have an upper built for the 22 ARC, no doubt! Will probably have Precision Firearms build me a Neptune MOD8.
My best 3-shot groups with the 6mm ARC at 106 yards this last Friday WITH - Factory Ammo - (1/4 MOA target). Gotta love those Mean Radius #'s:
Thanks for the info. I went to the Hornady site and read everything already posted for V/T ammo. What you say is true, including your "mostly" qualifier . As far as I can read, the new "cleaner burning temperature stable" powders are for the lighter bullets only. Heavier bullets apparently don't get those powders.V-match ammo (22 ARC and 6 ARC anyway) will be mostly loaded with a slightly different family of powders that have been significantly cleaner yet, and have superb temp stability. Velocity will be ~20-25fps per inch of barrel regardless of gas gun or bolt gun. Roughly 100fps every 4 inches of barrel and all of the published velocities for V-match are 24" barrels I believe.
Yeah so the case volume on the ARC/Grendel sized cartridges doesn't lend itself to great velocity numbers with extruded powders. Traditionally the extruded stuff (ADI/Hodgdon Extreme, newer RL series, etc.) is what is the bee's knees for consistency and temp stability. However, pound for pound you can get exceptional velocity with some of the ball powders available. Packing efficiency among other things gets better with larger case volumes and the velocity gap between extruded/ball shrinks in the larger cases. We've been working back and forth with powder suppliers to get powders/blends that fit the case capacities for the 6mm ARC very well over the last couple of years. The original blends were pretty sooty but we've got a newer powder that is quite a bit cleaner burning with the same velocity/accuracy performance that will be going into the 103-108gr class 6mm ARC and it works well for the 88gr 22 ARC, too. Both of those powders are good for temps *for ball powder*, but sorta "meh" compared to modern extruded. On par with stuff like the old IMR lines. The V-match 62's and 80's (22 & 6mm respectively) can take advantage of some powders in the new Sta Ball HD series that are both very clean and very temp stable.
With supply chains the way they have been the last few years I can't guarantee anything going into the future, unfortunately. When we have Varget, H4350, temp stable ball powder, etc... We load it. When we don't, it's a game of compromises and the choice ultimately comes down to "don't load X ammo, or use substitute B,C,D powder", and for the most part the customer prefers to have something vs. nothing... The age-old crux of buying factory loaded ammo, it's subject to change components lot-to-lot and you don't know what they are or how they'll perform until you try them.
Thanks again so much! That is very much need to know for me as I don't reload anymore, I did it so much it felt exactly like work!Yeah so the case volume on the ARC/Grendel sized cartridges doesn't lend itself to great velocity numbers with extruded powders. Traditionally the extruded stuff (ADI/Hodgdon Extreme, newer RL series, etc.) is what is the bee's knees for consistency and temp stability. However, pound for pound you can get exceptional velocity with some of the ball powders available. Packing efficiency among other things gets better with larger case volumes and the velocity gap between extruded/ball shrinks in the larger cases. We've been working back and forth with powder suppliers to get powders/blends that fit the case capacities for the 6mm ARC very well over the last couple of years. The original blends were pretty sooty but we've got a newer powder that is quite a bit cleaner burning with the same velocity/accuracy performance that will be going into the 103-108gr class 6mm ARC and it works well for the 88gr 22 ARC, too. Both of those powders are good for temps *for ball powder*, but sorta "meh" compared to modern extruded. On par with stuff like the old IMR lines. The V-match 62's and 80's (22 & 6mm respectively) can take advantage of some powders in the new Sta Ball HD series that are both very clean and very temp stable.
With supply chains the way they have been the last few years I can't guarantee anything going into the future, unfortunately. When we have Varget, H4350, temp stable ball powder, etc... We load it. When we don't, it's a game of compromises and the choice ultimately comes down to "don't load X ammo, or use substitute B,C,D powder", and for the most part the customer prefers to have something vs. nothing... The age-old crux of buying factory loaded ammo, it's subject to change components lot-to-lot and you don't know what they are or how they'll perform until you try them.
That was the first groups I shot through my 6ARC. I shot a recent lot of Hornady 6ARC and can’t keep it under 1.5”. Seems the ammo wasn’t the most consistent.
Yeah so the case volume on the ARC/Grendel sized cartridges doesn't lend itself to great velocity numbers with extruded powders. Traditionally the extruded stuff (ADI/Hodgdon Extreme, newer RL series, etc.) is what is the bee's knees for consistency and temp stability. However, pound for pound you can get exceptional velocity with some of the ball powders available. Packing efficiency among other things gets better with larger case volumes and the velocity gap between extruded/ball shrinks in the larger cases. We've been working back and forth with powder suppliers to get powders/blends that fit the case capacities for the 6mm ARC very well over the last couple of years. The original blends were pretty sooty but we've got a newer powder that is quite a bit cleaner burning with the same velocity/accuracy performance that will be going into the 103-108gr class 6mm ARC and it works well for the 88gr 22 ARC, too. Both of those powders are good for temps *for ball powder*, but sorta "meh" compared to modern extruded. On par with stuff like the old IMR lines. The V-match 62's and 80's (22 & 6mm respectively) can take advantage of some powders in the new Sta Ball HD series that are both very clean and very temp stable.
With supply chains the way they have been the last few years I can't guarantee anything going into the future, unfortunately. When we have Varget, H4350, temp stable ball powder, etc... We load it. When we don't, it's a game of compromises and the choice ultimately comes down to "don't load X ammo, or use substitute B,C,D powder", and for the most part the customer prefers to have something vs. nothing... The age-old crux of buying factory loaded ammo, it's subject to change components lot-to-lot and you don't know what they are or how they'll perform until you try them.
I would love a temp stable ball powder for Grendel/ARC. My go to is 2520 but it's temp instability necessitates loads for different ambient temps and load data for seasons. It's not that hard but you have to pay attention and it would be better not to have to.
I've worked up 223 & 308 loads for gasser and bolt comparing AA2520 to Staball Match. 77gr 223 they are almost dead even & both hit pressure within .1 - .2 grain apart (slight edge to Match). With heavies like 85 RDF or 88 eldm the Staball match starts pulling ahead of 2520 for speed at any given gr charge. Still hit pressure at damn near same charge, but Match is delivering more fps. For 308 again very close with 169 & with 177 Match starts to show more speed per gr.I would love a temp stable ball powder for Grendel/ARC. My go to is 2520 but it's temp instability necessitates loads for different ambient temps and load data for seasons. It's not that hard but you have to pay attention and it would be better not to have to.
Or you could just put the powder temp variation in your ballistic app and it will automatically do it for you…
<Florida Man weighs in on reliance of electronics in cold weather.>
No thanks.
So you don't reload & have shot 7 cases of 6ARC. If you want to sell some PM me.Thanks again so much! That is very much need to know for me as I don't reload anymore, I did it so much it felt exactly like work!
Plus, The 108 ELD factory stuff shoots lights out on my 6 ARC bolt gun. Most precise rifle/ammo combo I own. I'm on my 7th case of 108 ELDs.... Average velocities in the mid to high 2700s - Until a certain Lot# showed up.
I had my suspicions about that before you just told us how it all works when I started seeing different color primers in different Lots. My suspicions were confirmed recently when I got the new Garmin to replace my Magneto Speed. I pulled out a couple of boxes to test the Garmin and I started seeing velocities in the high 26 to low 2700s, about a 60fps difference. My first thought was about the Garmin "crap! I got a dud!)
Next time I took the magneto speed and the Garmin out for comparison and confirmed that it was the ammo lot. Still shoots great at 100 yards but now I will test all my lots when I start shooting them. This because I shoot long range as well and for the zero range on the 4DOF app to work I need a valid average velocity...
Thanks again!
Nope. They all go back in the box And from the bolt gun they are all pristine. No soot on the outside except for a quarter of a way down the neck or less....I bet he leaves it on the ground for the peasants to fight over like a G.
Nope. They all go back in the box And from the bolt gun they are all pristine. No soot on the outside except for a quarter of a way down the neck or less.....
When do you think the V-match might start hitting shelves? I’d like to get a couple cases to try out.
Good to know thanks! Was wondering why 6mm ARC 108s were going on back order (again) with the people I buy it from. I ordered two more cases today from another supplier just in case . Question, can I use my 6mm ARC mags with the 22 ARC?The ammo is running but there were delays in like labeling or something? I'm not exactly sure, not my department. I'd imagine it's a matter of a week or three before you see it on shelves, but that's just my guess.
Are they Proof Carbon fiber or SS barrels. I purchased 3 of Proof Researchs SS barrels for 2 for 6 ARC & 1 for 308 in AR platform...they can shoot 1/4" 5 shot groups, .3s to .4s common for 5 shots with the SS barrels...I wouldn't buy a carbon fiber barrel, unless I was building a walk around hunting rifle. I infact built a 6 lb 3 oz AR 10, in 308 without going to carbon fiber barrel or a pencil barrel, but a fluted SS barrel...and it's shooting .5 to .7 inch 5 shot groups with 169 gr and 177 gr SMK...with 3 shots 1/4" good for a thin SS fluted barrel. I've had excellent SS barrels from Proof, hope their quality isn't slipping.Wouldnt call it regret quite yet, but my proof barrel is on the way back to them for diagnosis, as it was shooting 1.5"-2" groups with hornady black and hornady eld match.
Jumped on the proof bandwagon, and now wondering if I should have just waited it out for one of the shops like CLE to spin me up one instead.
Second proof barrel I own, and I wouldnt exactly call the first one above-average either..
both barrels are proof stainlessAre they Proof Carbon fiber or SS barrels. I purchased 3 of Proof Researchs SS barrels for 2 for 6 ARC & 1 for 308 in AR platform...they can shoot 1/4" 5 shot groups, .3s to .4s common for 5 shots with the SS barrels...I wouldn't buy a carbon fiber barrel, unless I was building a walk around hunting rifle. I infact built a 6 lb 3 oz AR 10, in 308 without going to carbon fiber barrel or a pencil barrel, but a fluted SS barrel...and it's shooting .5 to .7 inch 5 shot groups with 169 gr and 177 gr SMK...with 3 shots 1/4" good for a thin SS fluted barrel. I've had excellent SS barrels from Proof, hope their quality isn't slipping.
Thank you. I appreciate the advice.This is part of what I do to make my Proof Research 6mm ARC barrels shoot 5 shot 1/2" groups, or less. Notice this reciever was out of square, center the bolt carrier, glue in with high temp green bearing sleeve loctite. Wax reciever where barrel extension slips in for easier removal of barrel. Tighten barrel nut to 60 ft/lbs, mill slot in barrel for gas tube if necessary, but do not over tighten. Some like 48 ft /lbs. I perfer 55 to 60 ft lbs...maybe this will help, with Proof barrel inaccuracies in AR platform.
Noveske is an option.Ehh, I haven't had the best track record with their products in the past. I meant a major player like KAC, LMT, DD, etc. Geissele should have their's out one of these days but it won't be cheap.
I gotta chime in on Christensen too.Hard to believe 4 moa. Just saying. They test them before sending them out. I sent my MPR back due to a little play in the joint of the folding stock. They replaced that and also a new bolt and barrel. I thought it shot fine 1 moa with my loads, but they said it wasn’t up to their standard. They took that upon their self. That’s my reasoning for saying this. They also paid the shipping both ways and had this done in 2 weeks. Pre-Covid though.