6 dasher vs 6br vs 6xc

[coach4christ]

Ok guys, I'm in the process of starting to build my first designated match rifle. My current set up is a 6.5 creedmoor, but I'm wanting to give the 6 mm a go. For you guys who have one of these (not you internet commandos who have a cousin who has a neighbor who has a friend who has one, or you "I heard" guys), what do you think the pros vs cons would be for each? I recently rode with a very well respected and and highly ranked PRS shooter to a match and picked his brain with this very topic. He shoots with one of the above calibers. Thanks guys.

 

[brianf]

If it's a match gun the 6br is out. They don't feed well enough from mags.
If some one chimes in and tells me how to get them to feed reliably in my ax I'd use it a heart beat. Match ammo is cheap and is better than hand loads most of the time.

 

[adamjma]

I considered the same options recently for an upgrade from .308 Win and settled on Dasher for MY situation. My take away was there are enough pros and cons for each that your INDIVIDUAL situation will likely be the deciding factor. I don't have the setup in hand yet, so I cannot comment on how the Dasher shoots, but my thought process might help you out. I'm looking more into the logistics, because I suspect that all the candidates are more accurate than I can consistently be.

For me in Canada, availability of XC brass is tough and it's pricey, so it was out. Not presently set up to anneal, so brass price and availability is critical to me. Probably not the case for you, but it might be.

Lapua BR brass is plentiful and reasonably priced, so Dasher and BR are in. I picked Dasher for the extra MV, knowing that FF was required and that dies and such are pricier. BR will save you money there. You could also look to BRX, which is essentially blown forward BR and uses BR dies. Essentially, the lost barrel life from FF (300 rounds is not trivial) and the up front die costs are worth the extra MV for me.

 

[Dai Bando]

Dasher is where I'd be for feeding specifically.

Adamja, you're gonna wanna get set up to anneal on the Dasher. Those thick necks will stop sealing up and your chamber will get sticky and will also cause neck tension issues.

 

[Sheldon N]

My vote is Dasher. The top nationally ranked PRS shooters in our region have gone from 6XC, 6 SLR and 6 Creed over to the Dasher or other 6BR based variant. Biggest advantages are low recoil and less muzzle blast/pressure wave due to a lot less powder being burned, and a cartridge that holds consistency better over the life of the barrel. Less tuning/tweaking needed to keep it shooting well.

There's nothing wrong with a lower velocity round if you've got it dialed in perfectly for your dope at distance. Think of this... you need roughly 80 fps more velocity to make up a click of wind at 1000 yards in a 10mph wind. In the grand scheme of things that's nothing. Your hits aren't going to come from whether your wind hold was 1.3 or 1.4 mils, it will be whether you got the call right in the first place or whether you could spot your impacts and make corrections. Last match I shot 2 weeks ago the winner ran Dasher at 2920 fps with a 105. I just worked up a load with a Sierra 110 for my Dasher and settled at 2820fps because it shot the best there. Just took it out to confirm dope and it painted a perfect waterline on every target from 800 out to 1225 yards.

6BR is a great round too, if your action is capable of feeding it. I wouldn't hesitate to run a 6BR in my Bighorn TL-3, my fireforming loads have all fed well. If you're going Dasher or 6BR and haven't yet decided on an action, the TL-3 would be something I'd look at closely.

 

[noisewaterphd]

Dasher or XC. I run both, don't have a huge preference either way. I've run my XC more this year. Could be mental or coincidental but my scores are notably better when I shoot the XC. I still see a lot of guys have feeding issues with Dasher too, but if you go with a smart builder you shouldn't. If you go Dasher I highly suggest a Norma reamer.

 

[craigos]

Dasher - because more people run them, quite a few people here including myself.

 

[delfuego]

If it's a match gun the 6br is out. They don't feed well enough from mags.

They feed great if for me in Bighorns. We have modified magazines to run BR. As for the AX/AT, they dont like short cases.

Lapua BR brass is plentiful and reasonably priced,

Lapua 6BR is out of stock almost everywhere...

If you go Dasher I highly suggest a Norma reamer.

I would say the opposite of this!

I know a very, very good PRS/NRL shooter who is running 6BR this season. Doesn't seem to hold him back...

I have both.The difference between 6BR and Dasher (and BRX) is about 100fps. The BR is easier to load for and the brass is more consistent, because it hasn't had the shoulder blown out. Dasher is a 1000 yard BR cartridge. 6BR is a 600 yard BR cartridge. Dasher is a non-SAMMI cartridge (this means there are no standard dies or reamers). Remenber, you are in the deep-end of the pool if you go Dasher. What distances will you be shooting at? You shooting PRS/NRL or local matches? Who is your smith? I think all 6mm are pretty finicky. You're gonna be drinking Koolaid either way and everyone has a favorite flavor

 

[Geno C.]

I think all 6mm are pretty finicky. You're gonna be drinking Koolaid either way and everyone has a favorite flavor

You think the 6br in finicky?! I would say it's the single easiest round to get to shoot well that there is.

Of those i would go dasher if you're sure you can get it to feed and eject right. The shoulder being just a bit farther ahead makes it easier to feed while the 40 degree shoulder hinders it a bit in some actions. A BRX is the best of both worlds in my opinion. It I were to put together a 6mm comp gun right now; it would be a 6-47L. It's not as overbite as a 243 or slr and feeds and ejects better than a dasher or brx. It will let you run the 105ish bullets damn near to most steel match speed limits also. While isn't not as easy to load for as a BR. It isn't really that hard either

 

[delfuego]

It I were to put together a 6mm comp gun right now; it would be a 6-47L. It's not as overbite as a 243 or slr and feeds and ejects better than a dasher or brx. It will let you run the 105ish bullets damn near to most steel match speed limits also.

No thanks. My 6BR based cartridges feed great. 6x47 uses way more powder and the barrel life is much, much shorter.

BRX is really good too. One of the guys we run with uses it in PRS/NRL matches. He crushes it with the BRX. He converted from 6x47. If BRX is your choice, have Travis Stevens build it. He is all dialed in with that cartridge

You think the 6br in finicky?! I would say it's the single easiest round to get to shoot well that there is.

6BR is way better than the others. Load development for 6BR is stupid easy Something special about that cartridge.

 

[adamjma]

Lapua 6BR is out of stock almost everywhere...

Tons up here in Canada!

 

[delfuego]

Tons up here in Canada!

Tabarnak!

 

[Aaron47pb]

I shoot a 6XC because I like and shoot AIs. If they fed the BR, I would probably shoot that over both the Dasher and XC.

 

[BoilerUP]

I've got a 6 Dasher built by Southern Indiana Precision; no feed or ejection issues in a 700SA from Magpul Pmag ACs.

Fireforming was stupid easy - 30.0gr Varget in Lapua 6BR brass, 107 SMK at hard jam, CCI-450, 5-shot sub-half MOA groups. Finding a full house load was a little more work - 107 SMK, one hundredth off lands, OCW from 32.0 to 33.2gr. 32.9gr shot fantastic but was occasionally blanking primers since I stupidly failed to have the firing pin bushed; backed it off to 32.4gr and no issues whatsoever. Could probably dial it in a little better playing with seating depth but quite honestly, 0.3-0.5 MOA is *more* than plenty for my needs (and I get to spend more time shooting building skill, and less time tinkering at the reloading bench).

I was on the fence between Dasher and 6XC, but my one catch was I wanted to run Varget to simplify my reloading supply chain. Quickload said 6XC would still be a performance gain with 105/107s using Varget but less than you get with H4350, but in the end Dasher won out and I've been quite happy.

I have a 20" barrel and get 2800fps with 107s.

 

[FatBoy]

I have both.The difference between 6BR and Dasher (and BRX) is about 100fps. The BR is easier to load for and the brass is more consistent, because it hasn't had the shoulder blown out. Dasher is a 1000 yard BR cartridge. 6BR is a 600 yard BR cartridge. Dasher is a non-SAMMI cartridge (this means there are no standard dies or reamers). Remenber, you are in the deep-end of the pool if you go Dasher. What distances will you be shooting at? You shooting PRS/NRL or local matches? Who is your smith? I think all 6mm are pretty finicky. You're gonna be drinking Koolaid either way and everyone has a favorite flavor

This isn't still accurate. Norma got the 6 Dasher CIP certified, so maybe not SAMMI but close enough. Standard reamer for the factory Dasher brass is available at Bullets.com, made by PTG. The Norma Dasher has the 6BRs long neck. That said, the Norma reamer is throated so the COAL is exactly the same as the PTG 6BR Norma. Our guys shooting 110s and 115s have them throated forward significantly. We are getting 3000fps with a 30" barrel (Long Range HP Prone rifle) and 107s. Not pushing hard, I have room for more MV, especially if I go to a slightly slower powder. Whidden and Redding both sell dies.

I think for ease of loading I would go Norma Dasher or 6BR with Lapua cases.

edit: I don't shoot PRS , but if I was going 6BR or Dasher I would find a way to run AICS mags with the Primal Rights kit.

 

[Dai Bando]

Norma Dasher is a loser.

Screw that shit.

Lapua brass or bust.

 

[delfuego]

We do shoot PRS. We shoot both Dasher and 6BR in PRS type matches. We Colorado boyz actually developed that magazine system so we could run 6BR in these matches (Shameless "Team 6BR" plug ). All that being said I still choose the Lapua Dasher reamer. We just had to get a new reamer because the old one had some issues....

Like I said before, everybody has their favorite flavor of koolaid.

 

[Hrsmn51]

Anyone mind sharing actual barrel life for a Dasher running105's. I have 2 xc's one with about 1300 rounds that is about done 105 RDF at 3020 fps.
H

 

[Sheldon N]

Anyone mind sharing actual barrel life for a Dasher running105's. I have 2 xc's one with about 1300 rounds that is about done 105 RDF at 3020 fps.
H

Just took 4th place with my Dasher barrel at 1900 rounds 2 weeks ago. Tough competition too, 1st through 3rd all sponsored/national level PRS shooters. 105 Hybrids at 2955fps.

 

[coach4christ]

Thanks for the input guys. I was leaning hard on the dasher. You guys have swayed me. I'm shooting 4-5 club level matches a year, and 1 or 2 2 day matches. What barrel life are you guys seeing with the dasher?? I will try to run around 2900-2950 with it....

 

[noisewaterphd]

Norma Dasher is a loser.

Screw that shit.

Lapua brass or bust.

Except that Norma dasher brass lasts like twice as long as fire formed Lapua, and the extra neck gets you longer throat life. I guess unless you hate things that are better.

 

[Dai Bando]

Except that Norma dasher brass lasts like twice as long as fire formed Lapua, and the extra neck gets you longer throat life. I guess unless you hate things that are better.

Bullshit it does.

 

[Geno C.]

No thanks. My 6BR based cartridges feed great. 6x47 uses way more powder and the barrel life is much, much shorter.

BRX is really good too. One of the guys we run with uses it in PRS/NRL matches. He crushes it with the BRX. He converted from 6x47. If BRX is your choice, have Travis Stevens build it. He is all dialed in with that cartridge

6BR is way better than the others. Load development for 6BR is stupid easy Something special about that cartridge.

So now you've confused me. First you say all 6mms are finicky and then you say the BR is stupid easy to load for.

I believe the latter, how about you??

 

[FatBoy]

Except that Norma dasher brass lasts like twice as long as fire formed Lapua, and the extra neck gets you longer throat life. I guess unless you hate things that are better.

I don't expect longer barrel life with the Norma brass, but you can load longer, period. No arguing that. Many guys were turned off by the first batch with thick rims. It doesn't bother me, however that's fixed. What a lot of shooters really didn't like is having to buy a new reamer or to trim .050" off the Norma. They expected plug and play with current tooling and loads and that was foolish IMO. The Norma is thicker, so you will need to drop the load .5gr from Lapua loads, maybe a touch more to start.. Fact is, the shit works and you need zero fire forming. The new lot of brass has the rim thickness issue resolved.

There is no arguing the guys who fire form (or hydro form) Lapua have it worked out. That shit is wicked accurate. More accurate than the Norma? Jury is still out but for guys like me, who like to open the box/load/shoot sub half MOA groups and use off the shelf tooling it works just fine.

When you get a Norma hater post, maybe PM the guy and see why they are ass hurt over it. Thier issue might not mean shit to you.

 

[spife7980]

For me it was a physical decision. The br and dasher are small rifle primer and I wasnt sure what my ptg action would come with so I opted for the 6xc to eliminate any worry about blowing possibly primers.

 

[steve123]

For me it was a physical decision. The br and dasher are small rifle primer and I wasnt sure what my ptg action would come with so I opted for the 6xc to eliminate any worry about blowing possibly primers.

Just so you know it's not a blowing primers issue, that has to do with severe pressures which needs to be avoided anyway. Just primer flow into the firing pin hole on the bolt face. I shot 6x47L for 3 years before getting my bolt bushed and found the issue only unsightly as the worst consequence.

That's okay 6xc is proven and a good choice too.

 

[KevinU]

Thanks for the input guys. I was leaning hard on the dasher. You guys have swayed me. I'm shooting 4-5 club level matches a year, and 1 or 2 2 day matches. What barrel life are you guys seeing with the dasher?? I will try to run around 2900-2950 with it....

Just had my 7th and 8th Dasher barrel chambered. Lowest round count barrel pulled at 2200rds, have a barrel with 2600rds still going.... 26" barrel, Hybrids low/mid 2900's.

Chambered a 6BR a few years ago, it open my eyes to inherent accuracy, ease of tune and consistency of load over barrel life... My brother and a good friend who shoot 6BR's told me if I chamber a 6BR, won't shoot my other rifles. They were spot on! 6BR led me to the Dasher, reach out a bit further.

 

[spife7980]

Just so you know it's not a blowing primers issue, that has to do with severe pressures which needs to be avoided anyway. Just primer flow into the firing pin hole on the bolt face. I shot 6x47L for 3 years before getting my bolt bushed and found the issue only unsightly as the worst consequence.

I thought that there was a risk of potentially so much crater flow that they might stretch beyond their capabilities and then rupture? I realize firing pin shape etc also has some bearing in the situation as well, not just a one dimensional issue.

But like you said, nothing wrong with the 6xc (or any of these) and it was a safe bet for me to not have any lingering worries in the back of my mind.

 

[Sheldon N]

Except that Norma dasher brass lasts like twice as long as fire formed Lapua, and the extra neck gets you longer throat life. I guess unless you hate things that are better.

Everything I've heard/read/seen about the Norma Dasher brass from both PRS shooters and benchrest shooters contradicts that. Can't be run as hard as Lapua, doesn't have the case capacity of Lapua (even when you load long with the longer neck), and shouldn't be hit with a full load on the first firing or you'll trash the primer pocket. That last piece of info came from the brass supplier themselves. So basically you have to "fireform" the Norma brass too.

Get a conservative load dialed in and it will shoot fine and last well. It is not in the same class as Lapua brass though.

 

[Dlwheel]

I would not run the Norma brass. Go for the Lapua Dasher and FF.

 

[Aaron47pb]

Except that Norma dasher brass lasts like twice as long as fire formed Lapua, and the extra neck gets you longer throat life. I guess unless you hate things that are better.

Did you hear that from your cousin who has a neighbor who has a friend who shoots Norma brass?

 

[Dlwheel]

I only wish that had been true for me. Tried the first gen of the brass and it puked. Tried the 2nd gen of the brass... same result. Clearly you've got it dialed in. I'm at 13+ reloads on FF Lapua. Except for the few I've lost in matches... still going strong.

 

[noisewaterphd]

Everything I've heard/read/seen about the Norma Dasher brass from both PRS shooters and benchrest shooters contradicts that. Can't be run as hard as Lapua, doesn't have the case capacity of Lapua (even when you load long with the longer neck), and shouldn't be hit with a full load on the first firing or you'll trash the primer pocket. That last piece of info came from the brass supplier themselves. So basically you have to "fireform" the Norma brass too.

Get a conservative load dialed in and it will shoot fine and last well. It is not in the same class as Lapua brass though.

Did you hear that from your cousin who has a neighbor who has a friend who shoots Norma brass?

I personally use Norma Dasher brass and Reamers now from experience, NOT because of what I heard somebody heard someone else said. That seems to be the reason people are still fireforming Lapua brass though. Dasher isn't the only Norma brass the pockets will last longer in either. I've got nothing against Lapua, but personally I'm going to use the brass that saves me money. Especially when it means I don't have to fireform or neck up/down either.

 

[g.ross]

Run a 6 BRA (6BR ackley )and don't mess with all the dasher stuff . No false shoulders ,hydro forming or jamming Load and shoot . The results are out on this little guy .

 

[Sheldon N]

I personally use Norma Dasher brass and Reamers now from experience, NOT because of what I heard somebody heard someone else said. That seems to be the reason people are still fireforming Lapua brass though. Dasher isn't the only Norma brass the pockets will last longer in either. I've got nothing against Lapua, but personally I'm going to use the brass that saves me money. Especially when it means I don't have to fireform or neck up/down either.

Glad it's working for you, just pointing out (for the original poster's sake) that your experience does not represent the strong consensus opinion about the brass.

 

[B-P-UU]

Run a 6 BRA (6BR ackley )and don't mess with all the dasher stuff . No false shoulders ,hydro forming or jamming Load and shoot . The results are out on this little guy .

That looks like the ticket.. what do you gain in terms of velocity over the straight BR?

 

[JMcBurn]

Run a 6 BRA (6BR ackley )and don't mess with all the dasher stuff . No false shoulders ,hydro forming or jamming Load and shoot . The results are out on this little guy .

They standardize the reamer and dies for that yet?

I was reading about it and it seems like a lot of fiddling

 

[B-P-UU]

I run a dasher and now that i have the kinks worked out, I'll probably stick with it. Fireforming is pretty straightforward (jam and shoot method here). there were times i wished i'd just went with a straight BR though. If you want plug and play, go BR. feeds beautifully in my TL3 with the primal rights kit.

FYI, hunts long range announced they are hydroforming dasher brass for $150 per 100 pcs. Not a bad price if you don't want to mess with FF.
https://www.facebook.com/HuntsLongRangeSupplyLlc/

 

[Sheldon N]

That looks like the ticket.. what do you gain in terms of velocity over the straight BR?

Some of the 1000 yard benchrest shooters are making the switch over to it. It's set a few world records and some of the top shooters switched. Easier fireforming, maybe better aggregate scores in benchrest.

At least that's the hype. In reality for PRS the accuracy difference is probably meaningless.

 

[g.ross]

Thank you Sheldon couldn't have put it in better words .
Hype nope ,I'm 300 rounds into it and have lost a piece of the bras brass due to fire fireforming . I ran a BRX with great luck for years and they both shoot close to dasher speed. I ran with my it out to 1150 this weekend with 1x fired formed Bras had a 2rnd impact due to bad wind call on a 12" target . Zero load development 31.5 grns of powder with the off brand GENIX primer and 20off running 2970 out of a 7 twist MW barrel. I edge out my partner shooting his 300win with 210 VLD .Ran out tonight with 110s at 2850 shot a 10shot group measuring really small don't want to give to many details ,I need the upper hand till it catches on over in the tactical seen.
JGS and PTG have reamers Whidden and Harrel have the dies . This cartridge is not new it was just over looked by the dasher craze.It probably won't work in the PRS world so I would forget I opened my mouth

 

[earthquake]

KevinU turned me on to the Dasher a couple years ago and I'm glad he did! I love this cartridge so much more than my 6.5creed. It's stupid easy to find a workable load and is just stupid accurate, low recoil etc.
I have been playing with the 110-smk's this summer and found a low node to preserve brass and barrel. Running them in an 8-twist (don't believe the hype that you need a 7!) at only 2,841 fps, slow like Sheldon N does. They just flat-out shoot.
Lapua brass, is where it's at. I have never had as low or consistent of an SD as I have had with the Lapua. Consistently 3-5 fps over 10+ shots....every time. Love it!

 

[JMcBurn]

Thank you Sheldon couldn't have put it in better words .
Hype nope ,I'm 300 rounds into it and have lost a piece of the bras brass due to fire fireforming . I ran a BRX with great luck for years and they both shoot close to dasher speed. I ran with my it out to 1150 this weekend with 1x fired formed Bras had a 2rnd impact due to bad wind call on a 12" target . Zero load development 31.5 grns of powder with the off brand GENIX primer and 20off running 2970 out of a 7 twist MW barrel. I edge out my partner shooting his 300win with 210 VLD .Ran out tonight with 110s at 2850 shot a 10shot group measuring really small don't want to give to many details ,I need the upper hand till it catches on over in the tactical seen.
JGS and PTG have reamers Whidden and Harrel have the dies . This cartridge is not new it was just over looked by the dasher craze.It probably won't work in the PRS world so I would forget I opened my mouth

Why do you say it wont work in PRS?

 

[KWilson]

Run a 6 BRA (6BR ackley )and don't mess with all the dasher stuff . No false shoulders ,hydro forming or jamming Load and shoot . The results are out on this little guy .

I'm running one of these in F-Open, fantastic little cartridge and ridiculously easy to get shooting well. If you can sort the magazine feeding out, I'd go this way for sure.

 

[g.ross]

I was just being an ass !! I believe it will preform as well if not better then the other 6mm for prs style matches due to low recoil ease of tuning and saying in tune, great brass life ,barrel life , and only running 30-31 grns of powder . Most prs matches I would say are with an avg target distance of 5-800 yds with skills stages be shot at 400 . Run ballistics with a 105 a 2950(6BRA&Dasher)3050(6xc-6x47) 3125(6creed-243) at those distances then factor in barrel life and powder cost .The dasher has been making its way up to the top in more matches . I've spent plenty of $$ on this hobby and countless numbers of hours trying every 6mm out there Old school precision guys remember the 243ai -6 crusader - 6xc -6x47-6creed-6dasher know the 6 BRA ,call it a trend but I think it's evidence .

-GW-

 

[JMcBurn]

I was just being an ass !! I believe it will preform as well if not better then the other 6mm for prs style matches due to low recoil ease of tuning and saying in tune, great brass life ,barrel life , and only running 30-31 grns of powder . Most prs matches I would say are with an avg target distance of 5-800 yds with skills stages be shot at 400 . Run ballistics with a 105 a 2950(6BRA&Dasher)3050(6xc-6x47) 3125(6creed-243) at those distances then factor in barrel life and powder cost .The dasher has been making its way up to the top in more matches . I've spent plenty of $$ on this hobby and countless numbers of hours trying every 6mm out there Old school precision guys remember the 243ai -6 crusader - 6xc -6x47-6creed-6dasher know the 6 BRA ,call it a trend but I think it's evidence .

-GW-

Do you run yours out of a magazine?

If so what did you have to do to make it work?

 

[g.ross]

Both my AICS and ARC mags run great but I have modified the feed lips on the AI mag to feed while the weight of the rifle is resting on the mag itself . This should be done on any caliber rifle you shoot in the PRS to keep from getting in a bind on a obstacle at roof top. Hs precision make a great tool so you can mod the feed lips

 

[orkan]

BR, BRX, Dasher... they are ALL super fun.

 

[SHKyle]

I'm running one of these in F-Open, fantastic little cartridge and ridiculously easy to get shooting well. If you can sort the magazine feeding out, I'd go this way for sure.

Are you having to neck turn?? I read a write up on the cartridge and it mentioned a fair bit of neck turning due to some minor growth in the neck shoulder junction after having already been turned.

 

[JMcBurn]

Are you having to neck turn?? I read a write up on the cartridge and it mentioned a fair bit of neck turning due to some minor growth in the neck shoulder junction after having already been turned.

They have no neck turn reamers available. But from what I've read is that the neck turn reamers are a bit more accurate around the .010-.012" neck thickness. But those guys are looking to shoot sub .2 moa at distance.

 

[Sheldon N]

Are you having to neck turn?? I read a write up on the cartridge and it mentioned a fair bit of neck turning due to some minor growth in the neck shoulder junction after having already been turned.

Use a no turn reamer. No intentions of turning necks here.