$60k for a base F150?

#101
A buddy bought a used Ford Bronco (5k miles) for his wife for 58k, which IIRC was 13k over new sticker.

Ordered a new Raptor 2 months ago as my midlife crisis vehicle. I would not have ordered it if I wasn't getting a deal, and the current market is 10k+ over sticker. Since I've had time to think about it, and will have more time since I assume it will not be here until July/August, I may end up passing on it once it gets here. I got a call the other day that Ford is out of the Raptor tailgates, so I assume mine will have the F150 tailgate.

I have cows and actually use a truck bed to haul stuff and do work, so a truck is required.

Logical me says keep your 17' SR5 Tundra with 100k miles. Midlife me says you might as well buy what you want before this trainride ends, lol.
 
#102
in 2020 i found a used 2019 F-250 platinum. i got it for 65k OTD TT&T. i "built" a 2022 on the ford website and it was 83k....(reasonable IMO with current market) i NADA'd mine and it was showing 83K for clean retail..... this market is wild. i didn't pull the trigger on the new one, yet.
 
#103
Not sure where the OP lives or where he’s getting his info, but not even close to what my local Ford shows for a base F-150.
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#105
chevy_man said:
Allison trans only came behind the 8.1 gasser and Duramax trucks. You have a 6l80e. May be handy for finding parts.
Change the trans filter and fluid every 50k and it'll last better than an Allison anyways. Don't flush it, just change the 6ish quarts that come out of the pan. Flushes done wrong will flush debris out of the filter and back into the places it will cause damage.

Don't bother with the tune or cold air unless you're doing full heads, cam, and headers with full exhaust. Once you get it breathing better you can actually use more air. The factory air box pulls cold air out of the fender, so nothing to gain until you're maxing the filter flow.

Diablo tune doesn't do anything but mess with shift points. Waste of money. More upgrades and a Dyno tune done locally where someone can actually get you everything that works in your application is money better spent.
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Well ya know,, I’d love to do what your saying to it but that would cost some decent money and a trustworthy shop to do it. Not much of that kind of shop in my state (that I know at least).

I do need to drain trans fluid and filter however but not sure I can do it myself

Heads,cam, headers and good dual exhaust (this max tow truck already has upgrades large exhaust (but I’m pretty sure it’s not true headers) and dyno tune would be easy 6k or more. I’m sure someone would try to rip me off but yeah I’d love to do that to the truck

Find me a shop that will do that in Delaware
 
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#106
XikoPlavi said:
Well ya know,, I’d love to do what your saying to it but that would cost some decent money and a trustworthy shop to do it. Not much of that kind of shop in my state (that I know at least).

I do need to drain trans fluid and filter however but not sure I can do it myself

Heads,cam, headers and good dual exhaust (this max tow truck already has upgrades large exhaust (but I’m pretty sure it’s not true headers) and dyno tune would be easy 6k or more. I’m sure someone would try to rip me off but yeah I’d love to do that to the truck

Find me a shop that will do that in Delaware
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You can do it! (But it may cost you more in tools than labor depending on what you have to start with)

I'd bet if you start asking anyone who looks like a car guy, you'll find there's a ton of shops.

If it's a daily driver then I can't recommend doing too much. If you're paying for labour then something like this may be what you're looking for. Solid boost in power everywhere, without getting crazy.
store.blackbearperformance.com

MP-01-19-60-Magnacharger Radix Max TVS1900 (Truck/SUV) - 07-

store.blackbearperformance.com

He has email tuning. Sends you a box to data log, and you email back and forth as he gets it dialed into exactly how you want it to drive. You have to have some basic computer skills, but nothing crazy.
 
#107
Was looking for an F250 and found one in Ruidoso. It is only about an hour away and we wanted to go up there anyway, so up we went.

They told me no 2nd sticker over the phone. I got up there and they had a 2nd sticker.

Local Dodge place in Las Cruces had a hand made sticker on the dash of one of their Jeep pickups. It was $50,000 for a base model with a soft top.

I was driving the wife's Sequoia and got out, the guy asked if I was trading it in to which I replied "fuck no, not for your fucking $15,000 mark up" and drove away. Felt like a defeated pussy, we really need another vehicle, but I hate the idea of getting prison raped over the price of a new vehicle.

Still a fucked up market.
 
#108
FjallJager said:
Was looking for an F250 and found one in Ruidoso. It is only about an hour away and we wanted to go up there anyway, so up we went.

They told me no 2nd sticker over the phone. I got up there and they had a 2nd sticker.

Local Dodge place in Las Cruces had a hand made sticker on the dash of one of their Jeep pickups. It was $50,000 for a base model with a soft top.

I was driving the wife's Sequoia and got out, the guy asked if I was trading it in to which I replied "fuck no, not for your fucking $15,000 mark up" and drove away. Felt like a defeated pussy, we really need another vehicle, but I hate the idea of getting prison raped over the price of a new vehicle.

Still a fucked up market.
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Roswell is selling at MSRP.
 
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#113
Fuck Ford and their prices. They gave millions to BLM and now they fuck the very people they hate with higher pricing. They are saving up for the next woke anti American bullshit cause to give your hard earned money to. Fuck them. I will never stop reminding people about them fucking America 🇺🇸
 
#114
I've driven Fords pretty much my whole life, but their dealers have a history of marking their vehicles up. I remember them adding $10K to the T-bird in the early 2000's, when the Shelby's came back out, Raptors, Mauraders, basically anything that was cool. Now they are just doing it to as a general rule.
 
#116
Just took me 30 seconds to find dozens of new F150's priced thousands below MSRP in my area (Atlanta) on Autotrader.

I paid about $4k less than MSRP for my last vehicle, and ~$8k less than sticker for my truck.

I flew to Indiana, was picked up by dealer. I won't work with local stealerships. Everything except a final signature was handled over email. Drove home thru the night. Flight was $250, booked about 5hrs before I left - it was the first one configured as I wanted off the boat in CA, he did some trading to get me what I wanted. Nice thing is it was "broken in" by the time I got home. Took it to the drag strip that weekend. Dogs didn't even pee in the house in the time I was gone.
 
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#118
They may have "told them" but that doesn't stop some from doing it. I was considering several options before deciding to buy out my lease, so I spent a little time trying to avoid rabid local salespeople while checking out "stickers".

Despite my comment above, there are certain stealerships around here that do it. Mostly around the malls. Captive audience.

If people aren't willing to drive and do a little research to save thousands, they get what they deserve.
 
#119
eflyguy said:
They may have "told them" but that doesn't stop some from doing it. I was considering several options before deciding to buy out my lease, so I spent a little time trying to avoid rabid local salespeople while checking out "stickers".

Despite my comment above, there are certain stealerships around here that do it. Mostly around the malls. Captive audience.

If people aren't willing to drive and do a little research to save thousands, they get what they deserve.
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Send the info to Ford. They really aren’t messing around.
 
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#120
I have more than once. I guess as I pay cash, I'm just a "former customer." Not even the courtesy of a reply, and those same establishments continue to do it. I brought it up with one of the lot rats last year, and he said something along the lines of "that's how things are". I was considering $70k vehicles (GT350 or C8).

Same with Nissan and BMW dealers I was perusing. I assume the majority of their customers are willing to hand over a cheque for whatever they are asking. It's also why I bought my Stinger in Muncie, IL. After "special modifications I made myself", it's faster than the others anyway.
 
#126
There is a dealer only about 50 miles away from me that has over 20 new (21 or 22 model year) F150's listed on autotrader for $35k or so.

That's what I paid for mine 20 years ago (it was mid-40's sticker).
 
#131
Bigfatcock said:
Ford has explicitly told dealerships not to do that. It matters very much because Ford doesn’t want the brand hurt by dealerships. I guarantee they will be VERY interested.
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Ford and GM have said they would cut the dealerships allotment of cars if they did such practices. As they should. Dealers that do that kind of crap gives the industry a really bad image, if the automotive industry wasn't bad enough already.
 
#133
Bacarrat said:
Ford and GM have said they would cut the dealerships allotment of cars if they did such practices. As they should. Dealers that do that kind of crap gives the industry a really bad image, if the automotive industry wasn't bad enough already.
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It's my understanding those protections are only for pre-orders, and even then it's only if a certain % are so much over.

It's a PR stunt by GM and Ford, trying to make people think they are going to bat for them. Now if you do pre-order you should be able to secure MSRP pricing, but for anything that lands on the lot unspoken for, they can sell it for whatever they want and they're not getting in trouble.

The reason Ford dealers got in trouble is they are hitting people with pre-orders on Bronco's with huge markups when they went to pick them up. That way the dealer would win either way, if they paid the markup it's pure profit, and if they refused the order they could put it on the lot and still make a $20k markup. So now for Ford dealers they have to sell a certain % of pre-orders or their allotment gets reduce. On the lot pricing though is still whatever they want. Not only that but with the Bronco there's been incidents of people making a stink about their pre-orders being marked up online, leaving bad reviews, posting on forums, etc. and then dealers going after them with lawyers. A NJ Ford dealer pulled that.

There's all kinds of shady stuff going on. Dealers won't put up window stickers online, they won't tell you pricing unless you come to the dealership, once you get there they typically add markups. I've been quoted at a Toyota dealer one price if I was trading and another if I was just buying (just buying got a $2500 markup, trading got MSRP) There are dealers charging one price for local area/in-state buyers and another price for out of state buyers etc. Dealers putting on $10k worth of dealer add-ons, requiring you to use their financing at worse rates. The list goes on and on.

I'm not saying not to contact them and complain, maybe if even more people complain they might do something, but as of right now, if it's on the lot for sale, the dealers I've talked to aren't getting in trouble for adding market adjustments, it's only if they play games with pre-orders. Jeep, Ram, Toyota, GM, Ford all the dealers around here are still putting on markups, I highly doubt they would still be doing it if it really had any negative consequences for them.
 
#135
Steel+Killer said:
I believe in capitalism and the free market and if they can get 20k more than MSRP good for them I guess, but they will never get that out of me and if and when shit gets back to normal I will remember the dealerships that didn’t demand 20k over MSRP.
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The issue is, once they figure out that they can charge it and see others getting away with it, eventually they will all do it. Same as gas stations. Same as ammo stealers and on and on. And as long as people keep buying shit, which they have to, then they’ll keep doing it. And what pisses me off is that there is a difference in making money and downright robbery. I’d rather be the guy that sales a little cheaper, gets more business because my customers are happier. I may lose some on the front end but should make it up in volume because I’d be the cheapest guy in town. This is how it’s supposed to work, but when everyone figures out they can steal from you cause you technically have to pay it then they’ll keep charging it. It’s the same thing the political class is doing. They are in charge and protect each other and now control everything therefore they control the outcome and there isn’t anything you can do about it. And they know it. So what do you do?
 
#137
FjallJager said:
Dave Smith in Kellog, Idaho told me they would do MSRP, with no bullshit.

They sell GM, Ram and Jeeps.
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You can do it all online. I wanted to fly up to Muncie because the dealer I worked with had been friendly to vets that had poor experiences elsewhere, and it was cheaper to fly up and drive it home than delivery. Nice excuse for a road trip. He came down to ATL to attend a car show, so he got to meet my ex and daughter as well.

I haven't "negotiated" at a dealer in a couple of decades. Had a really great guy locally but the chain did him wrong and he ended up at their main used lot, couldn't help me with the new Stinger in 2018. He has offered more than kbb for it if I want to sell/trade it. Told him to let me know if he gets a Supra in as good condition as my Stinger.
 
#138
seattle.craigslist.org

1990 ford f250 5spd diesel 4x4 - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle...

ford f250 xlt lariat 4x4 5spd IDI 7,3l diesel tires batteries brakes all are excellent truck has air bags,set up for camper lots of dents but no rust. tilt wheel roll up windows ,good daily driver....
seattle.craigslist.org

Do yourself a favor and buy something like this. It would leave you enough to paint it and get all the mechanical stuff tuned up. And it isn't reliant on 3 trillion complicates chips.
 
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#140
MK20 said:
Right as covid started I bought my 1997 diesel gmc 2500 with 97K miles for 5900 bucks. 4wd. It needed a couple grand worth of front end work put in but I wouldn't sell it now.
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You will when you're fed up fixing crap on that 6.5, but at least it'll get decent fuel mileage when it runs.
 
#142
SilentStalkr said:
The issue is, once they figure out that they can charge it and see others getting away with it, eventually they will all do it. Same as gas stations. Same as ammo stealers and on and on. And as long as people keep buying shit, which they have to, then they’ll keep doing it. And what pisses me off is that there is a difference in making money and downright robbery. I’d rather be the guy that sales a little cheaper, gets more business because my customers are happier. I may lose some on the front end but should make it up in volume because I’d be the cheapest guy in town. This is how it’s supposed to work, but when everyone figures out they can steal from you cause you technically have to pay it then they’ll keep charging it. It’s the same thing the political class is doing. They are in charge and protect each other and now control everything therefore they control the outcome and there isn’t anything you can do about it. And they know it. So what do you do?
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Yep, consumers are the most powerful group in the world, but too stupid as a group to wield that power when it comes to new toys. It happens in everything, it's why 10 years ago people thought $300 bipods were expensive, then we had $500 bipods, then $800, and now we have $1000 bipods and guys think the $600 version is "cheap". The reality is if people wouldn't pay it, dealers couldn't charge it. Unlike gas, people could hold out a lot longer without a new car than without gas. If no one in this country bought a new car for a month or two it would drastically change what dealers are getting away with. As soon as one dealer gets away with it, more will follow and another will charge even more and get away with it etc.

I doubt we'll ever see cars as cheap as they were 2 years ago, with yearly huge rebates, guys getting 1/2 ton trucks $15k under MSRP est. and the average price paid well under MSRP aside for the most in demand models. Car companies want volume back, but they will find a middle ground to keep demand high, and prices high because their profit per vehicle right now is sky high, but they don't have enough volume. People are already conditioned to think MSRP is "a deal". I bet we'll see longer term car loans become more popular now, I just saw 96 months offered the other day, just spread the higher cost over longer terms.
 
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#143
ToddM said:
Yep, consumers are the most powerful group in the world, but too stupid as a group to wield that power when it comes to new toys. It happens in everything, it's why 10 years ago people thought $300 bipods were expensive, then we had $500 bipods, then $800, and now we have $1000 bipods and guys think the $600 version is "cheap". The reality is if people wouldn't pay it, dealers couldn't charge it. Unlike gas, people could hold out a lot longer without a new car than without gas. If no one in this country bought a new car for a month or two it would drastically change what dealers are getting away with. As soon as one dealer gets away with it, more will follow and another will charge even more and get away with it etc.

I doubt we'll ever see cars as cheap as they were 2 years ago, with yearly huge rebates, guys getting 1/2 ton trucks $15k under MSRP est. and the average price paid well under MSRP aside for the most in demand models. Car companies want volume back, but they will find a middle ground to keep demand high, and prices high because their profit per vehicle right now is sky high, but they don't have enough volume. People are already conditioned to think MSRP is "a deal". I bet we'll see longer term car loans become more popular now, I just saw 96 months offered the other day, just spread the higher cost over longer terms.
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It’s insanity! Trucks now likely cost well over the majority of what Americans over 50 paid for their first house. Let that sink in. We now have reg cars/trucks costing as much as houses in places. I don’t know where the end is but it’s got to stop at some point as wages sure as hell ain’t keeping up with this nonsense.
 
#144
ToddM said:
I doubt we'll ever see cars as cheap as they were 2 years ago, with yearly huge rebates, guys getting 1/2 ton trucks $15k under MSRP est. and the average price paid well under MSRP aside for the most in demand models.
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You say that now, but wait until the street rate on a new-car loan is 10% and then we'll see how durable this pricing power is.

I remember how the period 2005-09 went down, and while I'm not predicting an exact repeat, I bet that it rhymes pretty well.
 
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#145
E. Bryant said:
You say that now, but wait until the street rate on a new-car loan is 10% and then we'll see how durable this pricing power is.

I remember how the period 2005-09 went down, and while I'm not predicting an exact repeat, I bet that it rhymes pretty well.
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Same with all durable goods including homes. My bet is that it rhymes and produces a harmony choir.
 
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#146
rtB said:
Link works.

The cheapest 4x4 in that search is 46k. That's a base model single cab 4x4 pickup. Commercial grade plastic seats and a radio.
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Neat fact - my 2008 F-250 XL SuperCab 4x4 with the 6.4L diesel stickered at $43k in 2008. That's with vinyl seats and flooring, power windows and locks, A/C, CD player, and the integrated trailer brake controller. It's a pretty good illustration of what inflation does over 15 years, even with so-called "productivity improvement" (which is mostly offshoring).
 
#147
lariat said:
Same with all durable goods including homes. My bet is that it rhymes and produces a harmony choir.
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As usual, you're bringing wisdom to the conversation.

Trucks sales correlate well to new-home starts, which are generally high at the moment (I recall that March's report was kinda soft, but April's looked very strong). But that reflects 4% 30y mortgages, and we're currently looking at something closer to 6%. Should need interesting to see how the next 6-12 months plays out.
 
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#148
SilentStalkr said:
It’s insanity! Trucks now likely cost well over the majority of what Americans over 50 paid for their first house. Let that sink in. We now have reg cars/trucks costing as much as houses in places. I don’t know where the end is but it’s got to stop at some point as wages sure as hell ain’t keeping up with this nonsense.
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Not sure where you live but my first house in the 90's was over $300k, and it was a bargain for the area. Zillow estimates $700k today for that property. My current house was close to that when I bought it 6 years ago and it's worth almost double that now. Heck, the trailer park a few miles away lists "homes" at close to $300k.

I've never spent more than $50k on a vehicle, but the same year I bought my first house I paid $36k for my F150 ($44k MSRP), and far less for two other vehicles (300M and Grand Caravan - we'd just had a kid).

Every new truck available today in the mid $30's has similar features as that F150 Lariat I bought in 2002 - and get much better gas mileage (12.5 over 20 years for me).
 
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