6mm BR Lapua Brass or 6 Dasher w/ trimmed Norma brass (don't want to fireform)

[Winny94]

Looking at a BR or Dasher. I don't want to fireform, so that leaves me w/ either trimming factory dasher brass back to FF Lapua length or going the BR route w/ factory lapua.

Intended use is steel ringing 400-800, and the occasional amateur F class and Prs type class (similar distances w/ the ocassional 1200 yd shot).

Which route would you recommend?

Edit: I'm going a prefit route for the barrel, and the only suppliers I can find that don't have a 6-8+ month lead time don't chamber for the Norma dasher

 

[FatBoy]

Why not just get the chamber cut with the Norma Dasher reamer, and take advantage of the long neck?

 

[Fishbaum]

I'm in the same boat. I'm thinking of going the Norma Dasher brass route. Is there a reason you would need to trim the factory Dasher brass? If you get your barrel chambered for the Norma Dasher brass then you won't have to do anything.

 

[Winny94]

Why not just get the chamber cut with the Norma Dasher reamer, and take advantage of the long neck?

I'm going the prefit route and all the barrel suppliers I use (that don't have a 6-8+ month lead time) don't chamber for Norma dasher

 

[FatBoy]

Then go BR. no point in wasting time and effort cutting that much off a dasher neck. If you want the extra MV over the BR, see if they sell 6XC pre-fits.

You could buy hydroformed Lapua dasher brass. Not cheap, but an option if 6XC doesn't work for you.

 

[Lynn Jr]

The regular 6BR pushes a 103-108 class bullet at 2950 FPS out of a 28-30 inch barrel with 0.104 freebore.
If your going to shoot the heavy for caliber bullets and you should get as much freebore as practical as it will increase your velocity.
The Dasher adds another 100 FPS all else equal.

 

[Danattherock]

Hunt's long range is the route many PRS shooters take, myself included. His Lapua hydroformed brass for Dasher is great. Been shooting it for 4-5 months, fantastic brass. I don't know of anyone shooting Norma Dasher. Go straight BR or Dasher is my suggestion, Lapua in either case. Most guys using br in PRS I know are using 28" barrels to get 2850+, narrowing the gap to Dasher a bit. Most Dasher shooters are getting 2980-3000 fps from 26" barrels from what I see. 6 bra is another fairly popular option, but I don't know much about it myself.

 

[Grog11]

Sounds like you’re not going too hard core and 600-800 is still in br wheelhouse (sounds like most of your shooting). Maybe go straight BR and try BRX when your barrel junks out (keep your dies). Velocity isn’t everything. Accuracy is definitely achievable at slower speeds with BR.

 

[radonkun]

I just jump into 6BR not 6 dasher because the case need work.
But if do not fireform I do not think the other way is better. I heard about Norma brass is bit different. Fps will lower than Lapua Mod brass. So in PRS whats pro use. Almost everyone use Lapua Brass.

 

[FatBoy]

The regular 6BR pushes a 103-108 class bullet at 2950 FPS out of a 28-30 inch barrel with 0.104 freebore.
If your going to shoot the heavy for caliber bullets and you should get as much freebore as practical as it will increase your velocity.
The Dasher adds another 100 FPS all else equal.

You're about 100fps fast on that 6BR MV unless your one on done with the cases and are comfortable going WAY overpressure. I have run four of them since 2006 and 2850fps is all we can safely get out of a 28-30 tube. 20+ barrels cut with the PTG 6BR Norma Match and all are within 25-30fps. Dasher go 2950-3000fps, with 3050 topping out on and starting to see or seeing pressure. Currently running two 6BR Normas and two 6 Dasher Normas , and burned out a couple 6BR barrels.

Not saying you're not getting those MVs, but it's certainly not typical.

 

[Lynn Jr]

You're about 100fps fast on that 6BR MV unless your one on done with the cases and are comfortable going WAY overpressure. I have run four of them since 2006 and 2850fps is all we can safely get out of a 28-30 tube. 20+ barrels cut with the PTG 6BR Norma Match and all are within 25-30fps. Dasher go 2950-3000fps, with 3050 topping out on and starting to see or seeing pressure. Currently running two 6BR Normas and two 6 Dasher Normas , and burned out a couple 6BR barrels.

Not saying you're not getting those MVs, but it's certainly not typical.

My combination won the 2010 NBRSA 1000 Yard Nationals and that velocity has worked well in Shilen Brux Lilja Broughton Bartlein Kreiger Rock PAC Nor and Hart barrels.
Brass lasts the life of the barrel and then goes into varmint usage.

 

[quiksilverj]

What would you guys expect for velocity from a normal pressure 26 in reg br 103ish pills?

 

[Triggs75]

Give keystone accuracy a call for the barrel. Very quick turn around time from him. I just went dasher route and got my Lapua bras from Hunt's long range which is already hydroformed as stated above.

 

[Lynn Jr]

What would you guys expect for velocity from a normal pressure 26 in reg br 103ish pills?

You will lose about 20 FPS per inch on average from a 30 inch barrel. Most of the loads on 6mmbr.com are from Benchrest shooters using 28-30 inch barrels.
I have no idea what tactical or PRS shooters use for pressure. My loads get used to hunt squeaks every year for the past 20 years without issue.

 

[Colt1776]

I’ve been running the 6br for a couple months and with a Impact action and a 26” Benchmark barrel I’m pushing 107 SMKs at 2800 with 30 grains of Varget and love this setup! I’ve taken it out to 1307 yards no problem using standard AICS mags with no mods to and they feed great. You can buy Redding Dies for it, and load development is extremely easy.

Depending on your action @Shanerbanner10 with Paradigm Gunworx’s can get you a prefit spun up pretty quickly too.

If you’ve got any questions feel free to ask because I was in the same boat as you last year trying to decide as well.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I went BR instead of dasher for the same reason. What I didnt realize is you still have to fire form with virgin brass. I'm getting 20 fps more with the 1x fired over virgin. Just go dasher or BRA and load them out longer. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Colt1776]

I went BR instead of dasher for the same reason. What I didnt realize is you still have to fire form with virgin brass. I'm getting 20 fps more with the 1x fired over virgin. Just go dasher or BRA and load them out longer. You'll be glad you did.

Yeah from what I’ve learned 6 BRA is the easiest way to fireform to get that little bit more velocity. Just harder to find dies for.

 

[FatBoy]

My combination won the 2010 NBRSA 1000 Yard Nationals and that velocity has worked well in Shilen Brux Lilja Broughton Bartlein Kreiger Rock PAC Nor and Hart barrels.
Brass lasts the life of the barrel and then goes into varmint usage.

Thank you for not posting that load. Any 6BR running that hot is unsafe. BR guys are always pushing the envelope. Custom chambers. Run 20 pieces of brass the life of the barrel, etc. (Edit: not implying you are)Trouble is, you get a guy here that expects to see 2950fps from a 6BR and a 105 and he's almost certainly going to be separating cases. Once you go over 30gr Varget or RL15 in a 6BR you are over pressure. Shit, you're probably over at 30gr but the brass is awesome and takes some serious abuse.

To each their own. But guys need to be caution when they read this stuff. Know the applications. Chasing MV is usually not the way to go, even though the 6BR seems to shoot every MV well.

I'll bow out now...

 

[Lynn Jr]

Thank you for not posting that load. Any 6BR running that hot is unsafe. BR guys are always pushing the envelope. Custom chambers. Run 20 pieces of brass the life of the barrel, etc. Trouble is, you get a guy here that expects to see 2950fps from a 6BR and a 105 and he's almost cerianky going to be separating cases.

To each their own. But guys need to be caution when they read this stuff.

I posted my freebore length so the guys with experience can adjust up or down with whatever freebore they are using
I see posters claiming velocities and pressure but without knowing the freebore they are using its all pretty much bad intel.
And you also have short-range Benchrest and Long-range Benchrest confused.
My recipe has been working for longer than 6mmbr.com has been on the internet and the load is safe if you know how to reload.
I realize many here don't understand much about reloading so I only post it when asked.

Edit: Most today are using 0.135 or longer freebore with the heavy for caliber bullets and that would make my load a weak load in today's world.

 

[Ranger188]

The guy's running the 105-107 weights, are you using a 7.5 twist?
I've run the #'s with a 8 twist and not getting 100% of the B.C. unless using 95 and lighter bullet.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I am using 8.3 and 8.5 twist and getting world class accuracy out to 1000 yards.
Look at those screamer patches closely as they have the year on them. Too many barrels to count.

 

[Covertnoob5]

The guy's running the 105-107 weights, are you using a 7.5 twist?
I've run the #'s with a 8 twist and not getting 100% of the B.C. unless using 95 and lighter bullet.

I’m running a 6br. 7.5 twist 26” Bartlein 30Gr Varget 105 hybrids @ 2833 FPS and it shoots stupid accurate. SD of 3 ES of 8.

ETA: I’m using this for prs and it works nice until you get out to around 1k then wind is your master.

 

[Grog11]

The guy's running the 105-107 weights, are you using a 7.5 twist?
I've run the #'s with a 8 twist and not getting 100% of the B.C. unless using 95 and lighter bullet.

I’m running 30.1 of varget out of a 26” barrel 7.5 twist, getting 2,730 avg. (new barrel). 105 hybrids.

 

[Lynn Jr]

And here we have the 100 FPS variation posted about earlier!!!!

 

[steve123]

This is a contemplation I had not long ago, going straight 6mmBR or Norma Dasher factory brass.

Half the cartridges I shoot are wildcats requiring forming, so this time around I just wanted the easy button, ended up going 6mmBR. Plus I wanted the barrel life and wanted to use Lapua brass.

I too went with a prefit because my action takes small shank savage and I hadn't tried a prefit yet. It was easy to set the headspace using the go and no go gauges.

Once I went back to the 105 hybrid the barrel shot incredibly. Wish I could post picks because I have one that shows 4.5" vertical for about 12 shots at 1025Y! I couldn't keep that small of vertical with my other rifles, or cartridges, and it was an amazing feeling that I was capable of doing that off a bipod and rear bag. Most groups at 100Y are 5 shots touching as well.

Depending on the temp I've been chronographing 2895 fps to 2915 fps in a 26" 8 twist barrel with 30.4 grains of Varget. That load doesn't do to bad in the wind. It's a bit warm in once fired brass but the primers aren't flat and the bolt isn't sticky. It's winter so I might have to back the load off a few 10th's come summer.

I don't feel undergunned inside 800Y, aiming a tenth further out in the reticle takes care of any problems compared to 6mm cartridges going 200 fps faster.

It took a while before I got the feeding working good, but it's fine now.

So far I'm mostly happy about my decision. Mainly that I'll get decent barrel life this time around.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Lapua brass is king obviously, but if you get Norma brass make dang sure you get a Norma chamber.

The BR is an awesome and super efficient case. The BRA is easy to fireform, barrel life is still very good 2000+ (conservatively) with a mild load. I've always said you can either try to out run the wind or you can learn it. The BR requires good wind calls, BRA speeds things up a little bit more and you can cheat the wind a bit more. All and all for PRS BRA, BR or Dasher are all awesome rounds, but if you prefer to spend more time shooting BRA or BR would be my choice. Simple to load and fireform (if need), awesome accuracy, really forgiving nodes.

I've chambered a bunch of BR's and most of the people I send barrels to never end up doing load development. The typically just load 30 grains of varget and either 105 hybrids or 107 SMK's 20 thou off and send it.

 

[260284]

I would go BRA if I was going to build a 6mm BR variant. Use Lapua brass and compete with your fire forming loads. Buy Dasher dies and have someone mill them to BRA length.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I would go BRA if I was going to build a 6mm BR variant. Use Lapua brass and compete with your fire forming loads. Buy Dasher dies and have someone mill them to BRA length.

Make life easy and just get a Harrell's 6BRA FL bushing die and a dasher seater. No need to mill the seater.

 

[Winny94]

I would go BRA if I was going to build a 6mm BR variant. Use Lapua brass and compete with your fire forming loads. Buy Dasher dies and have someone mill them to BRA length.

I already got in touch w/ Shane, and this is the route im going with.

 

[Grog11]

And here we have the 100 FPS variation posted about earlier!!!!

I know his was a while ago, but relevant here: I just labradar’d It again at about 400 rounds and it’s averaging about exactly 100 fps faster now! (2,835).

 

[chevy_man]

BRX. Fire forming loads are usually stupid accurate, you're running right up with a dasher, and no finding dies as 6br dies are everywhere.

 

[Banango]

Looking at a BR or Dasher. I don't want to fireform, so that leaves me w/ either trimming factory dasher brass back to FF Lapua length or going the BR route w/ factory lapua.

Intended use is steel ringing 400-800, and the occasional amateur F class and Prs type class (similar distances w/ the ocassional 1200 yd shot).

Which route would you recommend?

Edit: I'm going a prefit route for the barrel, and the only suppliers I can find that don't have a 6-8+ month lead time don't chamber for the Norma dasher

Lapua 6 Dasher Hydroformed Brass Box 100 count | Hunt's Long Range

This is 6 Dasher Hydroformed Lapua Brass. We have this down to a fine science and produce a great product. This brass is formed with a custom die. The HLR 6 Dasher brass is ready to load and sized to a 0.267 neck. Our brass is ready for load development and match ready. We have

huntslongrange.com

 

[6brshooter]

105 hybrids, 29.5-30 gr h4895, br4, and 26-28" 8tw barrels have done great for me with 6br. Long freebore and .010off. Drops and drift, using .278 g7, have my velocity trued to 2925fps in fastest and 2895 in slowest.

 

[Kiba]

I've been running 6 Norma Dasher since it came out and having very good luck with it. I didn't have a 6BR at the time, and wanted to go Dasher without fireforming or hydroforming, so I decided to give the Norma Dasher a try. 6 BRA wasn't a thing at the time I had the barrel spun up. The longer neck of the Norma Dasher is nice compared to a standard 6 Dasher.

Only change on my chamber compared to the bullets.com reamer and chamber is going with a 0.274" neck diameter, I didn't think 0.272" neck of the stock bullets.com reamer provided adequate neck clearance for a rifle that sees field conditions (i.e. gets a bit dirty and goes longer between cleanings than a benchrest gun.) Josh @ Patriot Valley had his Norma Dasher reamers made with a 0.274" neck for the same reasons. Wade Stuteville did my first barrel with the bullets.com reamer and opened up the neck to 0.274", Josh @ PVA is doing my next barrel with his 0.274" neck reamer.

I have 600 pieces of the first batch of brass with the 0.008" thicker rim that some people had problems with in regards to extractors and shell holders. The first lot "thick rim" brass had slight issues with my AI AE and I had to modify the extractor hook as it would only extract about 50% of the time-- but my AT and AX extracts it no problem with no extractor mods. Newer batches have a thinner (standard) rim thickness to work with all shellholders and extractors, but this means less material surrounding the primer pocket which may have a negative effect on primer pocket life. Can't say for sure as I haven't tested the newer "standard rim" batches of Norma Dasher brass.

One of my 100 piece lots of brass has 9 firings on it now and the primer pockets are still really really tight. My initial load and node was 31.54 grains of Varget with a 105 Hybrid at 2910 fps. New load is 34.6gr of RL16 and a 105 hybrid at 2975fps. Quickload shows the faster RL16 load to be lower pressure (50 ksi) than the slower 31.54gr Varget load (54.3 ksi). Both Varget and RL16 are stupid accurate. Both loads are rather mild and could easily be pushed harder, but 2975fps with RL16 gets the job done for me without getting stupid on pressure.

Thought I might change over to 6 BRA, but the Norma Dasher brass is treating me very well and I'm having another Norma Dasher barrel spun up by PVA right now. Current barrel has 1800 rounds on it; it looks great in the borescope and hasn't dropped accuracy or velocity yet, but at 1800 rounds I figured it would be prudent to have a new barrel ready to go. I figure I'll keep spinning up Norma Dasher barrels until the Norma brass dies, then I may switch to Lapua brass and go 6 BRA. But with one 100 piece lot of Norma brass having 9 reloads on it and still having extremely tight primer pockets I will probably be sticking with the Norma Dasher for at least 2-3 more barrels.

All that being said, if I was starting today I'd probably go 6 BRA just for the Lapua brass. The Norma Dasher brass is treating me very well, but the Lapua brass is time tested and proven to be about the most durable stuff out there.

 

[Dale264]

Why not just get the chamber cut with the Norma Dasher reamer, and take advantage of the long neck?

^^^ what this guy said. Or just go with a straight 6br with a 26" barrel.

 

[Viking65]

I haven't seen formed Lapua side by side by with the Norma 6mm Dasher factory brass, and I can't find any reference to differences in the actual dimensions (e.g. OAL of one versus the other) despite looking through forum threads. I am gleaning that the primary difference in external dimensions is the length of the neck, the Norma being significantly longer; is this correct? I ask because I'm trying to figure out what the implications are of using Norma factory brass in a barrel that was reamed for Lapua. If I wanted to use Norma brass, could it be done and, if so, how does the brass need to be modified?

I understand the aspect pertaining to case capacity. I am not competing with this; strictly target practice out to 600, or thereabouts. Mostly, just trying to improve my own shooting.

 

[Dai Bando]

Alpha and done.

 

[Viking65]

Thank you. I probably should have stated that I can get the Norma product from a friend at a decent price, hence my curiosity.

 

[Dai Bando]

You couldn’t give me Norma dasher brass.

If limited to 600 just do a 6br

 

[Viking65]

Okay. I am in the process of obtaining a rifle from an acquaintance which sports a barrel reamed for Lapua 6mm Dasher. I already shoot plenty of Norma brass in 6.5x55 and .284 Win (long action), and there is nothing at all wrong with either (I also shoot Lapua brass in the 6.5).

I'm still in search of an answer to my original question of the differences between Norma factory and formed Lapua.

 

[spife7980]

You would have to cut the norma neck down to lapua lengths in order for it to fit into a lapua dasher chamber. And then you have to hope its not from an early batch of the norma dasher that had the rims too think to fit in normal shell holders or possibly an extractor.

 

[Viking65]

Thank you. This is what I figured re: neck length. Does someone have a precise OAL measurement for the formed Lapua brass?

I have seen numerous posts re: the rim thickness of the early dasher brass, and know to watch out for this.

 

[spife7980]

You would be best served to get a reamer print for your chamber and trim to that spec. You could also go with a sinclair gauge to measure it yourself exactly.

My criterion dasher is 1.570 max so I would go for 1.560. But most lapua brass once formed isnt that long so Im actually a bit short down around 1.550.

 

[steve123]

Order some hydro formed Lapua brass from Dj's.

I'd be worried about the Norma brass being to wide at the .200 line. I hate taking chances and then having to buy different dies or having the chamber redone.

 

[Viking65]

Thank you both; good advice. The barrel was done by PVA; I will contact them to get an idea. I had already looked at DJs.

 

[spife7980]

Thank you both; good advice. The barrel was done by PVA; I will contact them to get an idea. I had already looked at DJs.

And youre certain that its PVAs lapua reamer and not their norma reamer? Because PVA does offer both. I assume its lasered on the side though.

 

[Viking65]

Exactly. Lasered on. "105FB / Lapua"

 

[tsu45]

Just get the Alpha dasher brass designed for the Lapua chamber. Pre-order is on at A-team Precision’s website. No idea on delivery schedule but we have waited this long for factory Lapua.

 

[lte82]

Old thread, but for what it’s worth my buddy has gone top 5, including a 3rd and a 2nd at his last three 2-day PRS matches with a straight 6BR & 105s. One of the matches had targets out to 1505 yd and he managed to go 5/9. Not to mention he has over 2000 rounds on the barrel and it’s still shooting tiny groups. Velocity is just over 2900.

I guess someone forgot to tell him he can’t be competitive past 800 with it lol.

 

[Viking65]

I have signed up to be notified when the brass is available. Still going to explore the Norma option.