6mm Dasher

[Dthomas3523]

Alpha brass:

Ran through a .266 bushing and chamfered mouths. I should have uniformed primer pockets I guess. A lot of them were extremely tight compared to lapua.

My barrel likes 32.6 with lapua and runs around 2960.

32.6 runs 2958 in alpha and no pressure signs.

Apparently my barrel likes 32.2 with alpha brass. I just loaded up 8 rnds 32.2 as zero ammo. Turns out it likes it (of course ?). So I did 3 on paper and 5 over magneto.

The rest are 3 or 5 on paper (3 if it wasn’t looking like sub .4 group) and 5 over magneto.

I’m pretty sure 32.3 was my fault on the high round. It was shot number 4 and I’m not the best at shooting groups.

 

[MDT_Josh]

Okay, my first Dasher barrel is dead after 2600 rounds and a new one is being spun up as I need to get ready for the NRL finale now ?

- 26" International Barrels (IBI) M24 1:8"
- Defiance Deviant Elite

Most consistent load:
- 108 ELD-M's @0.035" off
- 31.7 gr Varget
- Lapua FF
- CCI 400's
- 2940 ft/s (up until ~1200) -> 2890 ft/s (up until ~2250) -> 2860 ft/s (until dead)

Lessons learned:
- no more fireforming. I FF'ed 600 pieces of brass by loading long and jamming, but will only be buying Alpha from here on out, or hydro forming
- .104" freebore is too short for the 110's and 115's to really shoot well and have good case capacity
- 2850-2900 ft/s is the sweet spot for the 108's in the Dasher and trace is quite visible
- 108's have a pretty poopoo BC, but they're consistent and go where you want them to

Next Barrel:
- 26" International Barrels (IBI) MTU 1:7.5"
- .104 freebore

I am also going to order a throating reamer and blow that freebore out to .150-.175 and work on those 115 RDF's as well as maybe some 112 Match Burners if I can source them up here for a decent price.

I will try to keep you all updated as I go

Josh

 

[BoilerUP]

Did you not find the 108s to match the Hornady 4DOF ballistics, or at least Litz's 0.267 G7?

 

[Hoyt7mm]

I'd suggest a total of .140ish freebore. Seems to work well for 105, 110s, and 112s. 700 down and sitting just above next/shoulder using 112s and .015 jump @ 2890 (pressure at 2930). Usinig IMR4166 after 200 rounds of fire forming (30gr varget, jam .010, .005 crush, 210 primer). Bartlein 5R, 26"

 

[jsimonh]

Just picked up 8lbs of Shooters World Precision, anybody have any luck with this powder? Im tired of having to hunt for Varget every time I get low.

 

[MDT_Josh]

Did you not find the 108s to match the Hornady 4DOF ballistics, or at least Litz's 0.267 G7?

I started running them with 4DOF and ended the season with a Kestrel Elite 5700. The ballistics matches the custom curve in the 5700 better than 4DOF, FWIW.

 

[MDT_Josh]

I'd suggest a total of .140ish freebore. Seems to work well for 105, 110s, and 112s. 700 down and sitting just above next/shoulder using 112s and .015 jump @ 2890 (pressure at 2930). Usinig IMR4166 after 200 rounds of fire forming (30gr varget, jam .010, .005 crush, 210 primer). Bartlein 5R, 26"

Interesting and good to know! We're going to order up a throating reamer and play with extending the freebore incrementally to see where it works best for us

 

[Scwalker83]

Interesting and good to know! We're going to order up a throating reamer and play with extending the freebore incrementally to see where it works best for us

Funny you should mention the 110s SMK, I got a prefit from Criterion, 28" MTU supposedly .104 freebore and my 110 is .02 off at 2.51 oal. Which is longer than I'd like. I'm using your guys mags (MDT) and I removed the binder plate in front to make them work. I wonder if I got a different freebore?

With an Ultra 5 6.5, they're running 2920 with 5sd/9es and sub half.

31 H4895 in Lapua BR brass.

 

[mmlook]

I'd suggest a total of .140ish freebore. Seems to work well for 105, 110s, and 112s. 700 down and sitting just above next/shoulder using 112s and .015 jump @ 2890 (pressure at 2930). Usinig IMR4166 after 200 rounds of fire forming (30gr varget, jam .010, .005 crush, 210 primer). Bartlein 5R, 26"

agree,

Just switched to a 0.135" fb, to run 105-115's with 4166

I would probably go to 0.150" if I could


I think with 115's, 0.150" FB, and 0.010" off the lands,
you might get enough case capacity to run H4350 or R16 and get 2900-2950+, without hitting pressure

 

[Dthomas3523]

Okay, my first Dasher barrel is dead after 2600 rounds and a new one is being spun up as I need to get ready for the NRL finale now ?

- 26" International Barrels (IBI) M24 1:8"
- Defiance Deviant Elite

Most consistent load:
- 108 ELD-M's @0.035" off
- 31.7 gr Varget
- Lapua FF
- CCI 400's
- 2940 ft/s (up until ~1200) -> 2890 ft/s (up until ~2250) -> 2860 ft/s (until dead)

Lessons learned:
- no more fireforming. I FF'ed 600 pieces of brass by loading long and jamming, but will only be buying Alpha from here on out, or hydro forming
- .104" freebore is too short for the 110's and 115's to really shoot well and have good case capacity
- 2850-2900 ft/s is the sweet spot for the 108's in the Dasher and trace is quite visible
- 108's have a pretty poopoo BC, but they're consistent and go where you want them to

Next Barrel:
- 26" International Barrels (IBI) MTU 1:7.5"
- .104 freebore

I am also going to order a throating reamer and blow that freebore out to .150-.175 and work on those 115 RDF's as well as maybe some 112 Match Burners if I can source them up here for a decent price.

I will try to keep you all updated as I go

Josh

I might give 108eld a go. I shot nothing but 6cm 108eldm factory ammo for a year and like you said, they go pretty much where you tell them.

Curre running 105 hybrids, basically cause that’s what everyone is running in a dasher. Only a few matches in, and have been placing high in club matches. But I don’t feel as confident as I did with the 108.

I’m assuming that’s just because I used the 108 so long. But might be worth experimenting with.

 

[jsimonh]

Posted this on Accurate Shooter and thought I'd share it here for anybody interested in SW powder.

Didn't shoot for accuracy today but shot a few rounds over my magnetospeed V3 to get things rolling. My varget load has been shot for all 1300rds that's on this barrel.

Bighorn TL3, 28" Benchmark 1-7.5, 104 freebore, with a SiCo Omega direct threaded on the end with a flat end cap. Berger 105 hybrid seated .010 off the lands.

55°, light wind, heavy mirage, 100yds

Varget 32.5 - 3019

Shooters World Precision
31 - 2926
31.5 - 2936
32 - 2984
32.5 - 3018

These were just 5 shot averages and I didnt record the SD although all these small groups only varied a few fps for each charge load. I did not experience any pressure indications even though max load for a 107 was listed at 31.3grs on the bottle.

 

[Chevynbow]

Posted this on Accurate Shooter and thought I'd share it here for anybody interested in SW powder.

Didn't shoot for accuracy today but shot a few rounds over my magnetospeed V3 to get things rolling. My varget load has been shot for all 1300rds that's on this barrel.

Bighorn TL3, 28" Benchmark 1-7.5, 104 freebore, with a SiCo Omega direct threaded on the end with a flat end cap. Berger 105 hybrid seated .010 off the lands.

55°, light wind, heavy mirage, 100yds

Varget 32.5 - 3019

Shooters World Precision
31 - 2926
31.5 - 2936
32 - 2984
32.5 - 3018

These were just 5 shot averages and I didnt record the SD although all these small groups only varied a few fps for each charge load. I did not experience any pressure indications even though max load for a 107 was listed at 31.3grs on the bottle.

32.5 of Varget/105 Hyb @3019, even with a 28” is moving...I’m at ~2940 with 32.6 of Varget, 26” and 105 Hyb’s.

 

[CV_Ag]

32.5 of Varget/105 Hyb @3019, even with a 28” is moving...I’m at ~2940 with 32.6 of Varget, 26” and 105 Hyb’s.

Just depends on the barrel and chamber. I’m at 3024 with 32.6 of Varget and hybrids out of my 26”.

 

[CV_Ag]

In other news....Berger may be on to something. From the PRS finale...

 

[jsimonh]

That would be sweet! Hope they bring them out soon.

Also, the BC numbers are backwards. Maybe photoshopped?

 

[CV_Ag]

That would be sweet! Hope they bring them out soon.

Also, the BC numbers are backwards. Maybe photoshopped?

No, they’re just backwards

 

[King_beardsly]

Those might be an option for me if they work with shorter freebore chambers

 

[lte82]

Those might be an option for me if they work with shorter freebore chambers

You probably want a 130 freebore for them

 

[King_beardsly]

Damn short freebore, guess I’m stuck in the 105ish class

 

[702lineman]

Is 29.5gr xbr under a 107 smk going to be too hot for a ff load? I've always ran 30gr of varget before, but I have a few lbs of xbr I want to use up and save my varget. From my research and from a friend that used to run 6 br, 29.5 is the go to xbr load for 6br

 

[Sheldon N]

Is 29.5gr xbr under a 107 smk going to be too hot for a ff load? I've always ran 30gr of varget before, but I have a few lbs of xbr I want to use up and save my varget. From my research and from a friend that used to run 6 br, 29.5 is the go to xbr load for 6br

Should be fine, maybe a bit on the warm side. If you go by Quickload 28.7gr of XBR is equivalent pressure to 30.0gr of Varget. I looked back at my notes and I've FF'd before with 28.5 to 29.0gr XBR behind a 105, I think I settled on 29.0 as the preferred charge and had velocity in the 2800fps range.

 

[702lineman]

Should be fine, maybe a bit on the warm side. If you go by Quickload 28.7gr of XBR is equivalent pressure to 30.0gr of Varget. I looked back at my notes and I've FF'd before with 28.5 to 29.0gr XBR behind a 105, I think I settled on 29.0 as the preferred charge and had velocity in the 2800fps range.

Thanks for the info! Gonna try it out tomorrow and shoot a local match sunday with them. The 30.0 of varget used to shoot amazing considering they were for ff, hopefully these do too. I'll try 29.0 first

 

[702lineman]

Just fyi for future reference, 29.5 is too hot. I popped 2 of the 3 primers, cci 400s.

29.0 was ok but primers were just a little flattened. Only shot 3.

So I took sheldon's quickload recommendation of 28.7 to equal 30.0 of varget and it shot great! Sd of 6 and this group for 5 shots. I think it will be plenty good enough for the club match tomorrow

 

[jsel10]

Anybody here use the norma dasher brass with the .050 longer neck? Looking for some reviews/opinions on it.

 

[Walker TR]

Anybody here use the norma dasher brass with the .050 longer neck? Looking for some reviews/opinions on it.

Stay far away!!!!! pressure issues with Norma Dasher that is why they never took off.

 

[Skunkworx]

Stay far away!!!!! pressure issues with Norma Dasher that is why they never took off.

What?

 

[M_R_Woodard]

I have the Norma chamber and have been happy with the brass. I have 30 pieces with 12 firings on them and the primer pockets are still tight.

 

[MDT_Josh]

Finalized my load on the second IBI Dasher barrel yesterday:
- CCI 450
- Lapua FF case
- 31.5 gr Varget
- 108 ELDM @0.010 off
- 2890 ft/s (0.26 MOA, sd 3.1, es 7.1)

Ready to rock and roll for the NRL finale in TX! Going to do a bunch of playing around after that, but this'll do for now

Josh

 

[Darqusoull13]

Finalized my load on the second IBI Dasher barrel yesterday:
- CCI 450
- Lapua FF case
- 31.5 gr Varget
- 108 ELDM @0.010 off
- 2890 ft/s (0.26 MOA, sd 3.1, es 7.1)

Ready to rock and roll for the NRL finale in TX! Going to do a bunch of playing around after that, but this'll do for now

Josh

Love it, good luck at the Finale. I'll hopefully see you at the range!

 

[King_beardsly]

Finalized my load on the second IBI Dasher barrel yesterday:
- CCI 450
- Lapua FF case
- 31.5 gr Varget
- 108 ELDM @0.010 off
- 2890 ft/s (0.26 MOA, sd 3.1, es 7.1)

Ready to rock and roll for the NRL finale in TX! Going to do a bunch of playing around after that, but this'll do for now

Josh

Not a super charged load, but damn near impossible to argue with those results.

 

[BoilerUP]

Finalized my load on the second IBI Dasher barrel yesterday:
- CCI 450
- Lapua FF case
- 31.5 gr Varget
- 108 ELDM @0.010 off
- 2890 ft/s (0.26 MOA, sd 3.1, es 7.1)

Just curious why you settled on that particular load instead of one node higher (32.4-32.5gr).

 

[MDT_Josh]

Not a super charged load, but damn near impossible to argue with those results.

True, and it seems like low-and-slow is the current trend in top shooters I have talked to. I am happy with how it shoots right now

Just curious why you settled on that particular load instead of one node higher (32.4-32.5gr).

Good question! I initially played with the higher node (32.4-32.5 gr) in my last barrel, but had higher speeds than I was wanting and was concerned about pressure. This load I have settled with should be rain/snow safe, whilst still giving me adequate speed and consistency. With the Dasher, I am not sold on trying to break that 3k mark, but would rather settle for a slower and safe load.

Josh

 

[BoilerUP]

Good question! I initially played with the higher node (32.4-32.5 gr) in my last barrel, but had higher speeds than I was wanting and was concerned about pressure.

What kind of speed were you seeing in the "common" higher node? I presume 26" barrel? Were you seeing pressure signs or just concerned you were on the edge?

Apologies for 20 questions, I like seeing folks' reasoning behind their decisions.

Just for an additional data point, I'm running the 108 over 32.4gr Varget and getting 2815fps from a 20" Hawk Hill with .105FB.

 

[MDT_Josh]

What kind of speed were you seeing in the "common" higher node? I presume 26" barrel? Were you seeing pressure signs or just concerned you were on the edge?

Apologies for 20 questions, I like seeing folks' reasoning behind their decisions.

Just for an additional data point, I'm running the 108 over 32.4gr Varget and getting 2815fps from a 20" Hawk Hill with .105FB.

No worries and it's good to have discussion.

Yes, I was/am running a 26" barrel and looking back over my data, the 32.4gr node I was initially targeting at the beginning of the year started me in the 2940-2960 ft/s range, but as my barrel sped up, it left me at around 3000-3025 ft/s and started to show pressure at 32.7 gr. Seeing as I was only 0.3 gr below pressure signs and blowing primers in the wet, I decided to slow down my load to 31.7 gr (2940 ft/s) for the remainder of the year.

Starting fresh with this new barrel, I don't have a lot of time to tinker with it before I leave for TX, but after I get back, I will be blowing out the throat a little and seeing if I can't get the 115's to work, as well as running the 108's out longer. I am not sold on the .104" FB on the Dasher anymore for our more modern bullets and think that it should be longer.

Josh

 

[702lineman]

Tested a couple loads today with 115 dtacs.

32.5gr varget sd 4 es 11 running 2833 zero vertical spread and pretty much same hole horizontally.

32.8 varget sd 4 es 10 2857 fps. This load was literally same hole. One of the better groups I've ever shot.

Both loads were .018 off lands in a 24in stuteville impact prefit. Not sure of freebore, barrel has 1000rds on it.

BUT.........here is the issue. No pressure with either load, except, the second string I shot of 32.8 to verify, it started raining on me. Still had an sd of 4, but had sticky bolt with rain. ?

 

[King_beardsly]

How deep are you seating the bullet into the case for the DTAC’s and are you losing much case capacity?

 

[702lineman]

How deep are you seating the bullet into the case for the DTAC’s and are you losing much case capacity?

I'm at 1.802" bto. I made my own comparator though so mine may vary from anyone else's measurements just a fraction.

 

[King_beardsly]

I'm at 1.802" bto. I made my own comparator though so mine may vary from anyone else's measurements just a fraction.
View attachment 7193683

Okay, you’re a little ways past the neck shoulder junction but getting decent speed with out pressure signs

 

[702lineman]

Okay, you’re a little ways past the neck shoulder junction but getting decent speed with out pressure signs

Yeah like I said though, it's only a 24in barrel, so I'm loosing a little. They shot amazing though. Dont really care about speed too much if they will be consistent. If I went out much farther out with the bullet there wouldnt be much touching the neck

 

[King_beardsly]

True the start of that boat tail is right at the junction and don’t really allow for much room to play. That really decent speed out of a 24”

 

[702lineman]

One thing I'd like to point out about the 115 dtac(2857fps) vs the 105 hybrids(2950fps) is that the 115s have over 100 ft lbs more energy at 1000 yards. There is only .1 mil difference in wind, which is nothing, the the energy on target is a good thing. That's really been my only complaint about my previous dashers. It's kinda hard to see impacts at distance. I'll give feedback after next weekends match at Shield Solutions.

 

[King_beardsly]

I’ve got some dtacs just sitting in the reloading cabinet that I was going to mess around with in a 6 creedmoor, maybe I’ll see if they work in the dasher with the short freebore

 

[VaderRubiconJK]

Having a hard time finding solid load data on the 115 dtacs.
I’ve got a bunch of powder choices. But I’d like to focus on two or three.
Need some help choosing the others as, of course Varget will be tested. AR Comp? XBR? RL15? Tac? Any others?
If anyone would be kind enough to share max load data from quick load I’d much appreciate it.

 

[702lineman]

Having a hard time finding solid load data on the 115 dtacs.
I’ve got a bunch of powder choices. But I’d like to focus on two or three.
Need some help choosing the others as, of course Varget will be tested. AR Comp? XBR? RL15? Tac? Any others?
If anyone would be kind enough to share max load data from quick load I’d much appreciate it.

I just chrono it a few min ago and checked zero. Remind you this is a 24in barrel with a 1300 rounds on it.

32.5 varget
115 dtac
Cci 450
Lapua brass
2820 fps
Sd of 2 and es 6

Not the fastest but it shoots damn good. At that speed it's a wash on them or 105s, but the dtacs have a lot more energy on target at 1k.

 

[702lineman]

I just chrono it a few min ago and checked zero. Remind you this is a 24in barrel with a 1300 rounds on it.

32.5 varget
115 dtac
Cci 450
Lapua brass
2820 fps
Sd of 2 and es 6

Not the fastest but it shoots damn good. At that speed it's a wash on them or 105s, but the dtacs have a lot more energy on target at 1k.

Tested this load at distance(1099 yards) this weekend in a club match. My son shot my gun also, so we ended up putting 220 rounds down the rifle saturday. I'll just say, if I was as good at pulling the trigger as what the gun shot I would have done damn good. I love the dtacs. Shot very good, and was moving pretty large plates at 1000 and 1099 pretty good. Wind holds were pretty even with 2 dashers shooting 105 bergers and a 6xc shooting 108s. Moral of the story, dont be scared of the 115s in the mighty mouse case, they shoot great.

 

[BoilerUP]

Moral of the story, dont be scared of the 115s in the mighty mouse case, they shoot great.

Twist and freebore?

 

[702lineman]

Twist and freebore?

7 twist bartlien and I'm not sure on freebore. It's a stuteville prefit with about 1500 rounds now. 1.800" bto is touching lands. I'm seating them at 1.795"

Edit....according to stuteville website they use a .120 fb

 

[702lineman]

I posted this in the 6.5 staball thread, but figured I'd share with other dasher guys too






I finally got a chance to try staball today. Looks promising I think. Let me be clear to what I'm after here. I'm wanting to run this in my dillon 550 for practice ammo and local club match ammo(515 yards). I plan on using varget still for bigger matches.

My varget load

32.5 varget
Lapua 6 dasher .130 fb
Cci 450
115 dtac
1.795 bto .005 off lands
2820 fps sd of 2 and es of 9

I used the satterlee method for this load development and worked great.

36.0. 2798 fps
36.2. 2828
36.4. 2835
36.6. 2853
36.8 2856
37.0. 2857
37.2. 2890
37.4. 2919
37.6. 2928
37.8. 2930
38.0 2943
38.2. 2970
38.4. 2973
38.6. 2994
38.8. 3000
39.0. 3026
39.2 3056

Ok, the reason I went so far is because I miss judged the starting point. Started at 37.0 and knew right away I started too high because of the speed. I knew the 2820-2850 range was going to be the node. So I loaded up the 36-37gr also to try. I figured I would go ahead and shoot the rest to see where pressure started. Well, never found it. No pressure signs on any of these, but I got scared at 39.2 and stopped. Load was getting severely compressed anyway.

I settled on 36.8 gr. There was only a 4 fps difference between 36.6 and 37.0 gr. I loaded 5 rounds of 36.8 with the bullet .015 off the lands and got a sd of 9 @ 2857 fps. Group was pretty good. I was in a hurry loading these 5 due to weather coming in and running out of time. I think with some seating depth adjustment it can do better. I'm going to try it again at .005 off lands this week. Looks like it's going to be good enough to put further time into.

 

[Mormegil87]

So I'm border line crunching powder with 32.7 of Varget in Alpha Brass loaded to 1.743" to the O-Give which is 0.030 off the lands.

Edit:. This is for 105 Hybrids in a 0.120" free bore chamber.

We'll see how it goes at testing but will probably have to shoot for a lower node.

 

[702lineman]

So I'm border line crunching powder with 32.7 of Varget in Alpha Brass loaded to 1.743" to the O-Give which is 0.030 off the lands.

Edit:. This is for 105 Hybrids in a 0.120" free bore chamber.

We'll see how it goes at testing but will probably have to shoot for a lower node.

Seat the bullet farther out. Is this the ocw?
If this is virgin brass I'd blow it out to your chamber before I'd freak out also. I'd say you could lower the charge .1 or .2 and still be in the node.

If not CRUNCH IT.