6mm decision....

[Judd]

I have decided to have a 6mm built. Just can't decide which one. I have went from a BR to 6x47 to 6mm Creedmoor and back several times.

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor and I love it but just wanting another gun. I decided on it over the 6.5-284 because of the difference in brass and slightly better barrel life. So value plays into the decision a bit.

Not sure if it matters but it will be on a Tikka action. I have read the other posts about 6mm just thought I might learn something else.

Few other questions:

1. Can you get a reamer for a 6mm Creedmoor yet or does GAP hold the exclusive, like the headstamped brass?
2. I like the SLR but not sure I want to mess with forming brass...I would rather buy brass and load it. That leaves the fire forming stuff out. So is anyone producing SLR brass? My search didn't indicate as such and the dies are higher than others.

So at this particular second I am leaning toward another Creedmoor to the mix. Talk me into or out of it and into another flavor. As you can probably tell I over analyze the hell out of everything and once I do finally make a decision I go all in

For what it is worth, I will be using it to shoot steel and clay shoots from a bench...not much into the paper punching.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 6mm decision....

6XC

6mm Crusader

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: 6mm decision....

If you go 6x47 Lapua, you can just size the brass and shoot it. No fire forming needed. Mine is a hammer.

I have a bunch of .243 brass for making a 6 SLR (and dies to go with it), but have not yet taken the step to do so. Sooner or later, I'll build one out, but even then I'll still have the 6x47L.

Jeffvn

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: 6mm decision....

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1014170#Post1014170

 

[WCW308]

Re: 6mm decision....

just to make your decision harder- http://www.6mmar.com/6mmBRX.php

I shoot a 6AR. also a 6X47 Surgeon RSR/ Krieger 1/8 tw.

The 6X47 seems to be one of those that shoots all well easily, I use 88g Berger fb
hp & 105 Amax. Run the 6.5X47 through a die & done. Brass is expensive but lasts. good load data at 6mmbr.com.

good luck with your 6mm

 

[turbo54]

Re: 6mm decision....

How about good old 6mm Remington?

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: 6mm decision....

For no prep, ACCURATE, quality brass at a fair price, Drives a 105 3100 fps, feeds great, proven........6XC!!!!

I LOVE mine.

If you want a little prep work I'd try a 6x47.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: 6mm decision....

Ain't nothing wrong with a plain jane .243

 

[blackblue]

Re: 6mm decision....

6xc, 6 SLR or 6 creedmoor, no fire forming.

 

[KevinU]

Re: 6mm decision....

Recently had a 6mm built for steel matches. Sifted through the options, narrowed it down to Robert Whitley's 6SLR or Joe Hendrick's 6 Competitive Match. Both have brass options, 6SLR EZ to form brass, 6 Competitive Match load and shoot.

Went with the 6SLR, 26" 7.5 twist. Have 420rds on it, Dtacs @ 2970 are shooting very well.

 

[Rob01]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ain't nothing wrong with a plain jane .243</div></div>

Sure there is. It doesn't have a sexy name, doesn't have x47 Lapua after it or new and cool. LOL Doesn't matter it can throw 115s at 3100fps pretty easy or the 105s even faster. Feeds just fine from magazines and has proven itself many times in competition but what does that matter.

I agree. The standard .243 does just fine.

 

[KLin]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ain't nothing wrong with a plain jane .243 </div></div>

+1 quoted for truth.

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm decision....

The .243 is the bar other 6mm's try to surpass. All this crap about this 6mm and that 6mm and none of them (with the exception of the 6 Crusader) can surpass what a .243 does. You want great brass, got it. You want cheap brass, got it. You want the highest performance out of a 6mm? Got it.

All the others are just wannabees.

.243 for the 6mm win.

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm decision....

Now if comps let you sling 115's at 3300-3400....it'd be a different story

 

[Layton]

Re: 6mm decision....

Hey one more. 6.5x55 Swede. But's it real close to what you have so maybe not.

L

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The .243 is the bar other 6mm's try to surpass. All this crap about this 6mm and that 6mm and none of them (with the exception of the 6 Crusader) can surpass what a .243 does. You want great brass, got it. You want cheap brass, got it. You want the highest performance out of a 6mm? Got it.

All the others are just wannabees.

.243 for the 6mm win.</div></div>

I agree with Mike , Except for Gas Guns. the 6mm Creedmore rules the roost there. And can get to within 95% of what the 243 can do in a bolt gun as well.

 

[xdeano]

Re: 6mm decision....

I'd do the 6SLR over in a heart beat. The thing just plan and simple shoots. I get the velocity that I want and better accuracy then i can even shoot. It's easy to make, no fireforming and I get very low ES/SD's even with virgin brass. I'd pick up rem brass over win brass if you go with the SLR, the r-p brass is more uniform. I wouldn't waste my time monkeying around with the Lapua stuff, for the accuracy i'm getting with the r-p.

The xc would be a close second choice.

xdeano

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KLin@GAP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ain't nothing wrong with a plain jane .243 </div></div>

+1 quoted for truth. </div></div>

^^^^These +1

 

[bm11]

Re: 6mm decision....

Another vote for the plain Jane. GAP built me a 28" 1 in 7.7 for my AIAX and the setup is an absolute laser! Pointed DTACs at 3115 fps, great component availability, etc, and shoots fantastic.

Actually shot this 5 round group at 507 yards with mine yesterday, pretty proud of it (.29 moan, and yes, it is 5 shots though it looks like 4.)

 

[OutlawTen5]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Huckleberry75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KLin@GAP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ain't nothing wrong with a plain jane .243 </div></div>

+1 quoted for truth. </div></div>

^^^^These +1</div></div>

What these guy said!

 

[Rob01]

Re: 6mm decision....

Three head shots at 500 yards at the Norcal match a few years back with a plain jane .243 built by GAP.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: 6mm decision....

Hard to beat the .243 in speed unless you go with the .243 AI one shot to fireform and done, a bit over bore, won't do much that the .243 will and ammo is everywhere if you don't reload.

 

[jbell]

Re: 6mm decision....

243...Screw that, I hate that fucking round! It kicks my 308's ass every time I shoot with BM11. It shoots inside my 308 by almost 1/2 in drop and drift, thats pathetic you almost dont even need to look at the wind.

+ 1 for the plain jane they do kick ass, well at least mine. By the way good shooting yesterday Bob.

 

[Judd]

Re: 6mm decision....

I'll admit the regularity of the 243 does play a factor in wanting something else. I mean heck I chose a 6.5 Creedmoor over a 308

I see what y'all are saying and you just confused me more hahaha.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Re: 6mm decision....

Do a 6XC and be done. Good brass availability, no fireforming. Will do everything a .243 will do with less powder and better barrel life. I run the DTAC's at 3100 with RE-17 with fps to spare for brass life. People are always trying to re-invent the wheel, 6mm Crusader, 6mm Creedmoore, 6mm Competition Match. It's been done. Go with what's already out there and a proven winner. 6XC.

 

[SilencercoJames]

Re: 6mm decision....

i know you dont want to fire form but I built a .243AI because a friend had the dies and didn't want them. I shoot the same load to fire form as I do regularly and ballistics are pretty close. 42gr of 4350 will push the 105amax to 3300fps. Pretty awesome little thing. 6.25 minutes to 500 yds.

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do a 6XC and be done. Good brass availability, no fireforming. Will do everything a .243 will do with less powder and better barrel life. I run the DTAC's at 3100 with RE-17 with fps to spare for brass life. People are always trying to re-invent the wheel, 6mm Crusader, 6mm Creedmoore, 6mm Competition Match. It's been done. Go with what's already out there and a proven winner. 6XC.</div></div>

I knew someone would try and pipe up with this. a 6XC WILL NOT do everything a 243 will do. Better barrel life? Can you get over 3K with a 6XC? We've all seen 243's that have done it. The DTACS at 3100? 243 will get them close to 3200.

You are right though, Go with what's already out there and a proven winner...243. You'll see more tactical matches won with a 243 over any other 6mm.

 

[jasonk]

Re: 6mm decision....

Mike is right (did I really just type that?). LOL

243 rules. It will do it all and do so with easy to find components. If you're going to shoot tactical comps most of them have 3100-3200 fps limits, there's no need to worry about extra speed in the 243AI since you won't be able to use it.

243 with 105 Hybrids or 115 Dtacs will win the day.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: 6mm decision....

Mike

you will also see more 243's on the line at most matches than other 6mm's heck probably in some matches the 243 is the predominate choice.

here is my thinking,a 105g hybrid just under 3100fps is great. you can shoot any match you want and not have to change loads. its safe, going to run in all conditions and be reliable, like jason said the extra speed isnt needed

my 243 does this but needs 42g of powder

an XC does it but with 39g of powder

I would suspect that the round running 3g less powder should get somewhat better barrel life, how much i dont really know.

let's be real though, Barrels are going to crap out and need to be changed. With the cost of matches, travel, ammo a $600 barrel doesnt amount to a whole lot. i feel to much is made over barrel life and match shooting, a guy will spend $2,100 in a year to travel and shoot matches but worry about getting 2,000 or 3500 rounds of barrel life

my 243 looks like pure crap at 1000 rounds, no way it will see 3000, i feel 2,000 to 2,500 is the max for either an XC or 243 sure you might get more but to me its not worth finding out in the middle of a match

the 243 is a great round, proven, been there done that, but the XC and others are also very good and worth a look.

i will take the norma xc brass at $75/100 over 243 lapua at $92/100

i also believe there is something to case design, look at a BR, the Lapua 47's, 6.5-284 these are known for accuracy and the xc is closer to those than a 243

there really is no wrong choice just a matter of opinion, plus some guys like to be different and go against the norm.

but im just learning and trying to improve

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike is right (did I really just type that?). LOL

243 rules. It will do it all and do so with easy to find components. If you're going to shoot tactical comps most of them have 3100-3200 fps limits, there's no need to worry about extra speed in the 243AI since you won't be able to use it.

243 with 105 Hybrids or 115 Dtacs will win the day. </div></div>

Admit it Jason....you feel dirty for saying that.

 

[Brandon05_88]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The DTACS at 3100? 243 will get them close to 3200.</div></div>
He's telling the truth. I hit 3,200 with the DTACs doing pressure testing with my new 243.

 

[Lofty]

Re: 6mm decision....

I absolutely love my new 243. It recoils like a .223 but I was hitting an IPSC sized target this weekend at 1100 yards so easily it was boring.

As far as wind its just stupid easy.....dont hold any.

 

[Jedi]

Re: 6mm decision....

If you want to run a 243 then at least do it right via the SLR, no fire forming just run thru die
Fixes standard case piss poor shoulder and extends neck, for a tact rifle it maybe nirvana.

thou to me the 6XC is about perfect
6.5 crusader would tempt me, but as my lil 20" pig gun runs 123 skinnes @ 3023fps 6.5x47 i see no need to change until my stock pile of brass is toast or i,m no longer able to shoot

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm decision....

Mike

here is my thinking,a 105g hybrid just under 3100fps is great. you can shoot any match you want and not have to change loads. its safe, going to run in all conditions and be reliable, like jason said the extra speed isnt needed

<span style="color: #3333FF">You're right, the extra capability isn't needed, especially in matches. The 6XC is a great round and more than capable of excelling, especially given the recent velocity restrictions in matches. Where I draw the line is the "can do everything the 243 can" rhetoric because it's just not true.</span>

my 243 does this but needs 42g of powder

an XC does it but with 39g of powder

I would suspect that the round running 3g less powder should get somewhat better barrel life, how much i dont really know.

<span style="color: #3333FF">So for every 13 rounds of 243 you'll shoot, you'll actually shoot 14 rounds of 6XC. I don't think that 100 extra rounds (at 1400 rounds shot) is really going to make a difference. 100 rounds in the big scheme of things is nearly insignificant. Even if we double it at 2800 rounds, how much more shooting time will 200 extra rounds bring you? A couple of days of practice?</span>

let's be real though, Barrels are going to crap out and need to be changed. With the cost of matches, travel, ammo a $600 barrel doesnt amount to a whole lot. i feel to much is made over barrel life and match shooting, a guy will spend $2,100 in a year to travel and shoot matches but worry about getting 2,000 or 3500 rounds of barrel life

my 243 looks like pure crap at 1000 rounds, no way it will see 3000, i feel 2,000 to 2,500 is the max for either an XC or 243 sure you might get more but to me its not worth finding out in the middle of a match

the 243 is a great round, proven, been there done that, but the XC and others are also very good and worth a look.

<span style="color: #3333FF">I agree 100%. The 6XC is a great round. My point is it just doesn't quite have the legs of the 243.</span>

i will take the norma xc brass at $75/100 over 243 lapua at $92/100

i also believe there is something to case design, look at a BR, the Lapua 47's, 6.5-284 these are known for accuracy and the xc is closer to those than a 243
<span style="color: #3333FF">
Here I will disagree with you. First, I will readily admit there is merit to case design however when it comes down to it, personally I don't care. As long as a minimum standard of accuracy is met, how efficient that case is is nearly moot. Accuracy is accuracy and the 243 has proven itself plenty accurate enough. Also, I find it a bit ironic that we speak of barrel life and you mention the 6.5-284. A very accomplished cartridge with a plethora of wins under its belt but also one universally known as one of the worse barrel burning wildcats out there. I don't know if that is true efficiency. </span>

there really is no wrong choice just a matter of opinion, plus some guys like to be different and go against the norm.

<span style="color: #3333FF">I'm all about that, but just call a spade a spade and rock with that. But don't try and tell me your margarine is my butter. </span>

but im just learning and trying to improve
<span style="color: #3333FF">
We all are. </span>

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike is right (did I really just type that?). LOL

243 rules. It will do it all and do so with easy to find components. If you're going to shoot tactical comps most of them have 3100-3200 fps limits, there's no need to worry about extra speed in the 243AI since you won't be able to use it.

243 with 105 Hybrids or 115 Dtacs will win the day. </div></div>

Admit it Jason....you feel dirty for saying that.</div></div>

You must feel dirty all the time

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: 6mm decision....

Mike

I'll just add Benjie was talking about case design of the 6.5x284 helping it be accurate. And the more I shoot diffrent rounds the more I see that case design is pretty neat. Meaning, I think it's cool that a 6xc is more efficent than a 243.I also think it's cool that a 6BR is more efficent than a 6xc.

It's all Ford vs Chevy stuff.

One thing I will not buy into (which is totally off topic) is the 6CM. My small brain will not accept how you can fireform a 243 to have a diffrent shoulder angle and get 3500 plus rounds of ACCURATE barrel life. I shoot custom rifles and have owned or owned rifles built from some of the best( GAP, APA, Jerry Newman).All of them were .25 moa rifles! I will not try and keep a barrel to a high round count even though it is still a 1 Moa rifle. I'll change the barrel in a hearbeat!! If it isn't sub .5 moa you might as well shoot something that you can order at Walmart.

I will say that if you want a easy to load for 6mm I'd go
1. 6XC
2. 243

Wanna play a little
1. 6x47

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike is right (did I really just type that?). LOL

243 rules. It will do it all and do so with easy to find components. If you're going to shoot tactical comps most of them have 3100-3200 fps limits, there's no need to worry about extra speed in the 243AI since you won't be able to use it.

243 with 105 Hybrids or 115 Dtacs will win the day. </div></div>

Admit it Jason....you feel dirty for saying that.</div></div>

You must feel dirty all the time

</div></div>

All............The...........Time...............!!!!!! But its a step up from The Dave.

 

[RBell24]

Re: 6mm decision....

For your intended use, I'd go plain vanilla .243 and if you just absolutely need it to have a cool, sexy name, do a 6x47L.

 

[Rob01]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will take the norma xc brass at $75/100 over 243 lapua at $92/100

</div></div>

That's the only choice? Hornady .243 is $70/100, Winchester .243 is $46/100. Both will load just as accurate ammo as the $94 Lapua but it won't hurt as much when you have to leave it laying at a match.

 

[KYS]

Re: 6mm decision....

Not much can hang with the 243 when its spitting the 105gr Berger Hybrids or 115 DTAC bullets. I am very fond of mine! I shoot it quite a bit.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will take the norma xc brass at $75/100 over 243 lapua at $92/100

</div></div>

That's the only choice? Hornady .243 is $70/100, Winchester .243 is $46/100. Both will load just as accurate ammo as the $94 Lapua but it won't hurt as much when you have to leave it laying at a match. </div></div>

No its not the only choice

R/P, Win and others shoot great and have won plenty of matches but i feel norma and lapua make better brass, its worth the money to me.

i have no experience with Hornady and Im sure if i got it for free or hooked up i would be promoting it, i know that the 6.5 creedmoor has been kicking butt lately so obvioulsy its good brass and proven.

it is just my prespective, again we spend around $700 to shoot a match, have $7k in our gun and scope, in the end is saving a few bucks on brass even worth talking about?

 

[Lofty]

Re: 6mm decision....

Winchester brass is the way to go it seems. For a match rifle it seems most guys will have lost all their brass before they can reload it more than 3-4 times anyways.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: 6mm decision....

I am building my wife a 6x47 Lapua. she will be shooting the 115 DTACS or the 105 grain hybrids.

She is not going to run it too fast, just fast enough to get the job done.

There is not much ballistic advantage between running at 3000 and 3100 FPS. So we are thinking the 3000 FPS is adequate.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: 6mm decision....

Any cartridge with a b.c. of over .5 at 3000 fps should be great for the 1000 yard game.

Heck it's probally best to shoot just under 3000 fps if you have one match rifle.
Some matches have speed limits of 3000 fps. While most are in fact 3100 or 3200 fps.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not much can hang with the 243 when its spitting the 105gr Berger Hybrids or 115 DTAC bullets. I am very fond of mine! I shoot it quite a bit. </div></div>

KY338

Are you gonna shoot the Kentucky PRS match? It has a 3000 fps limit. I know you have a sick collection. I'd like to finally meet you.

Joe

 

[19Scout77]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not much can hang with the 243 when its spitting the 105gr Berger Hybrids or 115 DTAC bullets. I am very fond of mine! I shoot it quite a bit. </div></div>

KY338

Are you gonna shoot the Kentucky PRS match? It has a 3000 fps limit. I know you have a sick collection. I'd like to finally meet you.

Joe </div></div>

 

[poison123]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not much can hang with the 243 when its spitting the 105gr Berger Hybrids or 115 DTAC bullets. I am very fond of mine! I shoot it quite a bit. </div></div>

KY338

Are you gonna shoot the Kentucky PRS match? It has a 3000 fps limit. I know you have a sick collection. I'd like to finally meet you.

Joe </div></div>

</div></div>

LOL

 

[Mike]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[in the end is saving a few bucks on brass even worth talking about?</div></div>

Here's my thought on loosing quality brass. By the end of the year I will have shot, at minimum, 5 major matches. It's not uncommon to lose 40-50 pieces of brass a match. At a $1 a piece, that's half a new barrel cost after a year. Sure, we spend a lot to play, but that doesn't mean we should just waste money, especially if performance gains are minimal at best.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: 6mm decision....

I tell ya what's expensive!!!!! Have a malfunction at a match and throw your gun down and break a high end optic. Then have to leave the match. That's expensive!!!

You know who you are......And I love ya bro!!!

 

[Rob01]

Re: 6mm decision....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i will take the norma xc brass at $75/100 over 243 lapua at $92/100

</div></div>

That's the only choice? Hornady .243 is $70/100, Winchester .243 is $46/100. Both will load just as accurate ammo as the $94 Lapua but it won't hurt as much when you have to leave it laying at a match. </div></div>

No its not the only choice

R/P, Win and others shoot great and have won plenty of matches but i feel norma and lapua make better brass, its worth the money to me.

i have no experience with Hornady and Im sure if i got it for free or hooked up i would be promoting it, i know that the 6.5 creedmoor has been kicking butt lately so obvioulsy its good brass and proven.

it is just my prespective, again we spend around $700 to shoot a match, have $7k in our gun and scope, in the end is saving a few bucks on brass even worth talking about?</div></div>

It is when you start out with a certain lot and then start losing it as you aren't going to buy 100 at a pop. You need atleast a few hundred to work up a load and then shoot the match. It does add up. I usually start with atleast 500 and then end up loasing atleast half byt the end of a year. So that's $470 for Lapua and you lose $235 or $230 for Win and loose $115 with getting the same accuracy and life out of the brass because you are losing half of it anyways.

Also no need to act like a tool with the Hornady comment. It was used as another example of quality brass that is under the $94 of Lapua.