6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*

[jbell]

Ruger presicion rifle,with er shaw barrel finally got her dialed in. Shoots as good as my kidd 10/22 i heated up the factory barrel in the shape of a S sending back to ruger,,,,,S,,,,,,, stands fir sucks....
Er shaw done a fine job with there match grade barrel... Shot the same with sk yellow box as it did with sk red box and Lapua center x... Beded the areas i could with alluminum tape... ....

Very interesting post, this is the first RPR 22LR we have had on the 6X5 but unfortunately your target did not actually correspond with the theme of this thread. The point is to shoot 6 groups of 5 rounds at various distances to demonstrate the accuracy of your system, and compare it against others. There is a results list on the first page of this thread from the previous versions (basically every time the Hide moved) up to this one. This is a very relaxed format, we don't care what target you use, what rifle, what distance, or even how you shoot it, just mention all of that for point of reference.

On to your post, I am interested to hear about your RPR and see how it shoots a 6X5. If you can get a picture of the rifle and a picture of the target, the only thing I ask is you have the target pre-measured as I don't have software to measure it. Typically you measure the out side edge (that black mark made on the paper that outlines the hole) of the two furthest rounds and then subtract the bullet diameter (generally accepted to be about 0.222" you can confirm this by measuring one single bullet hole and see they don't actually measure 0.224").

What is up with the aluminum tape bedding, what is the thought process behind that? I would like to hear more about the how, why, and results...

Thanks and welcome to the 6X5 - Jesse

 

[Lrps260]

Very interesting post, this is the first RPR 22LR we have had on the 6X5 but unfortunately your target did not actually correspond with the theme of this thread. The point is to shoot 6 groups of 5 rounds at various distances to demonstrate the accuracy of your system, and compare it against others. There is a results list on the first page of this thread from the previous versions (basically every time the Hide moved) up to this one. This is a very relaxed format, we don't care what target you use, what rifle, what distance, or even how you shoot it, just mention all of that for point of reference.

On to your post, I am interested to hear about your RPR and see how it shoots a 6X5. If you can get a picture of the rifle and a picture of the target, the only thing I ask is you have the target pre-measured as I don't have software to measure it. Typically you measure the out side edge (that black mark made on the paper that outlines the hole) of the two furthest rounds and then subtract the bullet diameter (generally accepted to be about 0.222" you can confirm this by measuring one single bullet hole and see they don't actually measure 0.224").

What is up with the aluminum tape bedding, what is the thought process behind that? I would like to hear more about the how, why, and results...

Thanks and welcome to the 6X5 - Jesse

I think i put this post in the wrong place,i wasnt paying attention, it was meant for the rpr blog,, but ok i will have to do that sounds like fun, thanks.
The rpr i have must have been a mishap, I accually got a good one, other than the barrel i used alluminum tape on the very little bedding surfaces to help hold the action in place,seen a youtube video said what tha hell,,,so i tried it.seem to shit tighter groups now. Thanks again.

 

[jbell]

Right on, get us a 6X5 they can be humbling and frustrating! Ha!

 

[Balataspin]

Gave it another go on Monday this time with an Anschutz 64R that I dropped into the MDT Lss 22 chassis system. Still have a lot of improving to do but it sure is fun. Next up 100 and 200 yds.

 

[jbell]

Nice job, I have your results updated. I look forward to seeing more!

 

[justin amateur]

I don't think anyone has posted a 6x5 17wsm yet.
Here's one from testing a barrel block rig this morning.
Heavy barrel Savage Bmag removed from it's tupperware container
and installed into a 2 point barrel supported platform on a Sinclair f-class bipod.

1.79 inch average for the 6 groups, 1.38 inch smallest.

 

[jbell]

That's a crazy rig man, I have your 17WSM posted up.

 

[justin amateur]

Jesse, as an amateur, I'm not limited in what I'm allowed to fabricate and test.

I've built some ridiculous rigs over the past few years to figure out what works.
Butt ugly things that aren't intended to be pretty, only functional.

I was handed a Savage 17wsm Varmint in an injection molded stock and told to see how it shoots.
The tupperware stock flexed in every direction and caused some odd strays that weren't wind or ammo induced.
I pulled the barrel and action out of the factory stock and built the barrel block.
7 dollars worth of 2x6 and 3 bucks of epoxy is all it took.

Link to build

 

[Just Chuck]

I saw this thread and liked the idea of cold bore 6x5 so gave it a try yesterday. Truthfully, my expectations were higher than my results...but it's a start.
Prior going to the range I had given the receiver and bolt a thorough cleaning which it was way over due for - but that may have affected the beginning groups. This is with a Ruger 10/22 that has a Green Mountain barrel, BX trigger, and the scope is the Cablea's Convenant FFP 4-16 44mm. It has a MOA Christmas tree retical and I'm really liking this scope.

I set the target frame at what I thought was 50 yards and after I began shooting I checked by the range finder and it was 47.5. Opps. You can the target is about to give it up - so I re-did that when I got home.

My best group was the last one - not sure if that is the gun settling in or the shooter.

 

[jbell]

View attachment 6943085View attachment 6943086

Are your group measurements center to center or edge to edge, so I know to place it accurately in the results. That is not bad shooting for a 10/22

 

[Just Chuck]

I measured outside edge to outside edge minus one bullet diameter - .224".

 

[jbell]

Right on, I have you one the results.

 

[justin amateur]

Added another barrel support point to the barrel block bmag
just to see if it would make a difference in accuracy at 200 yards

50 rounds of Federal AE 20 grain 17wsm
5 rounds spent resighting the scope after the stock modification.
9 five shot groups and adding the extra constraint point didn't make a major difference.
1.73 inch average for the 9 groups, 1.28 inch best.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Justin - good shooting with your 17WSM. Was the bbl laid into the wood making contact for the full length or was it floated in any way? Just curious. My 17wsm always seems to like the 25g ammo best but it is an early production thin bbl profile model. I heard the newer HB models have a different faster twist rate? and seem to like the 20's better. I have tried a lot of things with mine. Full floating the bbl did not help. Bedding the action did. Having a rubber contact point near the front of the forearm helps also as did installation of a big ole rubber vibration dampner donut about halfway down the bbl. They shoot good enough to bust a coyote or groundhog in the head at 200y.

Irish

 

[justin amateur]

Irish, it started out with 2 barrel support points, 1/8th inch thick epoxy shims.
Added a third to determine if the lateral spread I was seeing was caused by barrel whip.

1/8th inch air gap around the barrel except at the support shims and retention pads/plates.

This is just a test platform to determine what works.
17.6 lbs of inertia with bipod, rings and scope.

 

[jbell]

Justin I updated your results, that is a solid improvement!

 

[justin amateur]

It wasn't a fluke, another ten groups

200 yards, wind from my 2 at 8 to 17 mph
Federal AE 20 grain 17wsm (made by Winchester)
BBBmag on the Sinclair with the chrony out front.

Ten 5 shot groups

1.60 inches, 2.32, 2.23, 1.95, 1.85, 1.62, 2.10, 2.0, 1.26, and 2.05 inches center to center
1.77 inch ten group average, smallest 1.26 inch

Overall aggregate vertical spread 3.8 inches, horizontal 2.9 inches.
Pretty decent for a varminting round with the wind chuffing at 8 to 17 mph.
As good or better than match 22lr at 200 yards, without a free floated barrel.

 

[jbell]

Pretty damn consistent! I updated your best group with the WSM barrel.

 

[justin amateur]

Irish, just noticed you asked about the twist rate on the heavy barrel bmag.
It's a 1:8, same as my 223's.

https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/rimfire/magnum-series/b-mag-stainless-heavy-barrel

Savage sure milled a lot of metal out of the receiver to fit the magazine.
It's no wonder my results are better with the barrel block rig.
Combine the tupperware stock and the weakened receiver you end up with unwanted movement everywhere.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Thx Justin. That was what I thought. My original early s/n Bmag with the smaller profile bbl was a 9:1 twist. Counter to what I would have expected, it hates the 20g ammo but shoots the 25g ammo pretty well. I bedded the action into a Boyds laminated stock. The rear is bedded on a small thin pillar of epoxy and the front of the receiver and about 2" of the rear of the bbl where those three rings are cut in the bbl is bedded on a large pool of epoxy. Those three barrel rings sit right down into the epoxy beautifully and it helps to tighten up the receiver a lot. It is not a tgt rifle but is a great small cal hunter. My little light-weight heats up pretty quick and I never got it to shoot five shots in a row without starting to disperse them unless I shot very slowly. You got me wanting to get it out to play with it some more. I never shot it but once since I added the rubber baby bbl bumper to it and it was windy that day.

Irish

 

[jbell]

I took the Anschutz back out for a quick 6X5 @ 100 yards. This time shooting Tenex, I was expecting a bit better results but I suppose it was not too bad. The wind velocity was low (about 1- 3 mph) but switching as can be seen by the POI shifts.

 

[Just Chuck]

I would bet there are more than a few center fire rifles that can't print groups that tight. Nice shooting jbell!

 

[jbell]

Thank you

 

[heartburn]

Ruger RPR 22LR @ 50 yards using SK RifleMatch... I don't have notes about the wind but generally we fight the wind a bit in the fall at this range. Re-barreled with a green Mountain 16" and continuing to work on little improvements here and there. I ended up with an overall target average of 0.449 for the target.

 

[jbell]

Nice, I think this is our first RPR. Nice job. I shoot playing cards often, the suits are challenging targets at 100 yards (1 round per suit)!

 

[jbell]

I got humbled today. I can't explain the single flyer in each group. I think they all felt good (nothing that was obvious like " yep that was all me"), but it could have been me, the ammo, wind I did not notice, don't think it was the rifle as I have seen some amazing stuff out of it. But none the less a real head scratcher today. But this could have been a good one if I could have kept them all in line...

100 yards with Eley Tenex out of my Anschutz 1827B:

 

[tansinator]

It happens often JBell!

 

[JG26_Irish]

I have seen this sort of out of place flyer at one of the ranges we frequent. It has a larger peaked roof shelter over the benches and when the winds hit it just right, it causes a rotating vortex of air to roll down range. As the bullets pass thru this disturbed air, they rise and then fall depending on if they are in the front or back of the swirl. If you did a high-speed video of the shots they would appear to porpoise up and down and the POI will vary. Sometimes you get a flyer up and sometimes a flyer down and then might shoot 10 shots that hit dead on. Not sure what your wind conditions were JB, but unless they were dead on, this might? be your issue. I have found that once you are able to be precise enough to shoot tighter than 1/2 moa groups these other tiny variables which were not even noticed with lesser guns, start to become visible. Might try placing about 3 simple wind flags using a dowel rod with about 18" of engineers tape tied to the top of each one to show when the winds are acting up. Often what is blowing at your location is entirely different at the 50y line, or at the tgt, etc.

 

[jbell]

Irish, you just described exactly where this target was shot. Plus a slightly elevated shooting position with a rise at 50 yards. I have see exactly what your referring to several times at this range.

It was just really calm at the shooting position when I shot this target. But the wind picked up right after so there may have been some high level winds above me blowing down in front of me. It certainly doesn’t take much.

I’m just blown away with the accuracy I’m seeing out of this rifle!

 

[justin amateur]

Every once in a while, you get a box of 22wmr that surprises you.
Happened to me this morning...looking through the scope I was seeing sub-moa at 100 yards.

Had the barrel block 455 Feddersen Fuglie on the bench, testing some Fiocchi 40 grain jhp.
Reads Fiocchi on the label, but the date code is CCI, made in the USA.

I could crop the picture down to the best 6 groups,
but that wouldn't tell the whole story and I'm not much for cherry picking.

0.70 inches, 1.65, 1.50, 0.60, 1.00, 0.45, 1.60, 1.4, 0.75 with a 2fer, and 1.65 inches for a 1.13 inch 10 group average.
That's as about as good as it gets with a 22wmr at 100 yards.
MV spread and cartridge defects all to often result in less than satisfactory results at extended range.

 

[jbell]

How do you want to score this for the results? Take 6 of the best fired in order or just do the average as all 10 targets and note it? I can post it however you want.

Not too bad for a 22 MAG!

 

[justin amateur]

Use all 10, Jesse.
I shot all ten, the average is fine.

 

[jbell]

Sweet stepping it up, I like it!

 

[jbell]

Next time I may have to give a 10X5 a go, sounds tough! Maybe Ill start a new thread and call it something like "the full box challenge" or maybe "the box test"...

 

[justin amateur]

50 at 200 is kinda catchy.

 

[jbell]

I don't think I am man enough... HA

 

[CMH]

I got humbled today. I can't explain the single flyer in each group. I think they all felt good (nothing that was obvious like " yep that was all me"), but it could have been me, the ammo, wind I did not notice, don't think it was the rifle as I have seen some amazing stuff out of it. But none the less a real head scratcher today. But this could have been a good one if I could have kept them all in line...

100 yards with Eley Tenex out of my Anschutz 1827B:
View attachment 6953146

 

[rick137]

I got humbled today. I can't explain the single flyer in each group. I think they all felt good (nothing that was obvious like " yep that was all me"), but it could have been me, the ammo, wind I did not notice, don't think it was the rifle as I have seen some amazing stuff out of it. But none the less a real head scratcher today. But this could have been a good one if I could have kept them all in line...

100 yards with Eley Tenex out of my Anschutz 1827B:
View attachment 6953146

Beware of angering the gods with such comments.

First, how did you verify the distance was 100 yd?

Awesomely precise groups. My preference is for the accuracy of the group since that is a more demanding test. However, the groups are also awesomely precise presuming the AP was the center of the diamond. All shots accurate to better than 0.5 MOA. Were you a sniper?

I presume the 1827B is the 1827 Fortner Biathelon Sprint? May I ask what were the other components of the weapon system? Mount, rings, scope and what magnification did you use, and mechanical support.

In "Rifle Accuracy Facts" Harold Vaughn states "I often see magazine articles where someone makes extravagant claims and presents as few as two 3-shot groups as experimental proof. Well, this is not enough data to prove anything. A series of 3-shot groups will average about half to two-thirds the dispersion of a series of 5-shot groups. Also, it takes at least five 5-shot groups to begin to have any confidence in the data. The average group size data presented in this book are based on a minimum of eight 5-shot groups. However, it is usually not necessary to fire more than ten 5-shot groups to have reliable data." For those of you who do not know, Vaughn was the real meal deal. Fighter pilot in WW2, chief ballistician of USAF, accomplished machinist, and accomplished hunter who advocated sitting position.

 

[jbell]

I confirmed the range with a LRF & it’s a KD range where IBS or NBRSA matches are shot, so it’s pretty exact.

Yes POA is the center of the target w/ a known good zero.

The 1827B is the action that was Anschutz’s top end biathlon rifle before the Fortner came out. So it’s a Match 54 repeater not the sporter 54 that uses a different trigger & different action screw locations. This one has the 5020 trigger. I have a DIP 20moa base, APA rings, and an NF ATCAR F1 4-16X42 MIL-R scope.

I only shoot off a bipod, Harris in this case & a small TAB rear bag. I was probably shooting on 14 to 16 power when I shot this target.

 

[jbell]

I have pictures of the rifle earlier in the thread. It’s a pretty good one...

 

[JG26_Irish]

I have pictures of the rifle earlier in the thread. It’s a pretty good one...

Understatement of the week... es ist eins schutzen-beastie, lol

 

[BillOH]

Vudoo Apparition 18" barrel, SK Pistol Match, 50 yards. Shot from my Booger Bench off the back porch. Smallest group: .253". Average: .346". 40 degrees and my flags were hanging straight down.

 

[jbell]

Nice rifle Bill, I have you on the results. What brand barrel is on that rifle?

 

[BillOH]

Nice rifle Bill, I have you on the results. What brand barrel is on that rifle?

I assume it's an Ace. I didn't specify a barrel when I ordered. My target was fired with a cold bore. The rifle hadn't been fired for a few days. Vortex scope.

I'm enclosing another target that I shot with my buddy's Vudoo. It doesn't fit the rules but I found it interesting. My buddy loaned me his Vudoo to shoot when I showed interest. This is the first target I shot with it using SK Rifle Match. The first shot from a cold wet, just cleaned bore went low left. The rest of the target speaks for itself. The average of all 12 groups including the flyer is .366". I had originally only measured to 2 decimal points. I carefully remeasured to 3 decimal points. Looks like the smallest group is .106". That target cost me a lot of money. I was on the phone the next day ordering mine.

 

[jbell]

Very cool, money well spent! Do you know the barrel make and length on your buddy's rifle by chance? I am just very interested in the Ace barrels. I have one with a 22" Bart and it shoots great for the little I have shot it. But I am about to have another one built and I am trying to decide if I want to order an Ace, a Bart, or go with my standby of a Benchmark...

 

[BillOH]

Very cool, money well spent! Do you know the barrel make and length on your buddy's rifle by chance?

He has an Ace that is just over 16 inches. There are several other Vudoo's in the local area with Ace barrels and everybody is happy with them. I'm very happy with mine.

 

[rick137]

I assume it's an Ace. I didn't specify a barrel when I ordered. My target was fired with a cold bore. The rifle hadn't been fired for a few days. Vortex scope.

I'm enclosing another target that I shot with my buddy's Vudoo. It doesn't fit the rules but I found it interesting. My buddy loaned me his Vudoo to shoot when I showed interest. This is the first target I shot with it using SK Rifle Match. The first shot from a cold wet, just cleaned bore went low left. The rest of the target speaks for itself. The average of all 12 groups including the flyer is .366". I had originally only measured to 2 decimal points. I carefully remeasured to 3 decimal points. Looks like the smallest group is .106". That target cost me a lot of money. I was on the phone the next day ordering mine.

Impressive. I presume environment no factor. May I ask what you used for support?

 

[BillOH]

Impressive. I presume environment no factor. May I ask what you used for support?

I shot that about 7 or 8 O'clock in the evening, so probably the wind had died down. I used my Booger Bench on the back porch probably with a rabbit ear rear bag and the Harris bipod on his rifle. My earlier picture would show about what it was like.

 

[BillOH]

Another entry. Vudoo Apparition, 18" Ace barrel, Vortex 5X25 scope, bipod, rabbit ear rear bag, 50 yards, SK Pistol Match, 36 degrees. Average .312", best group .208". Look at that very last shot.

 

[jbell]

That last shot is a bummer for sure!