6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*

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Top two rows of three were best ammo of the day - CCI Standard Velocity. Ruger Precision Rimfire - Athlon Midas Tac, cheapo UTG bipod, SS Sparrow suppressor. Pretty quiet day at the range as far as wind goes - 5-7 mph off an on, kind of switching Temp in the mid to upper 30's. I thought the Tennex would shoot better, but one thing I noticed was this rifle seems to take more shots than many others I have tested to make the switch between ammo/bullet lube types. I only had a partial box of Tennex, so what you see is what you get.

I am pretty happy with the CCI SV results. I have a good sized stash of it, cost is reasonable, and it is quiet through the suppressor. Given some of the RPRR horror stories I have read, I am damn happy with it so far (only 300 rounds down the tube +/-) And it was a Christmas gift from the wife...
 
I am posting these for a gentleman here on the Hide that I have been talking to recently. He is a wealth of knowledge and a very avid rimfire shooter. He sent me a video of the wind flags during his shooting session and it was unpredictable at best. Constantly switching vector with speed from 8-16 mph up to 18-25 mph!!
He goes by Seymour Fish here on the Hide...

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Should have taken one today for comparison. Overcast, 70 deg down to 58. Late start. Was decent at 9-12 from 9&10, then crept around to 6:30-8 at zero to 10 with abrupt changes. Tried for 100 & 200 6x5 but no joy and ran into dark. Bright spots : 77/22 group of 1.243” at 200, 10/22 .414” at 100 (was .242 “ first 4–ouch). Raw accuracy is there, but the shooter needs more work reading conditions. More in couple days
 
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Never seen a Harrell tuner put on backward before (the cammo rifle). Interesting.
Travel or, Friend of Fred Gould’s thought it might work as the Harrell’s did not index on the bbl installed normally. Would lose your setting if removed it. It worked great backwards and has set like that 14 yrs. kinda blows the whole PurdyRx out of the water. Once best setting found, have not moved it. Seymour
 
It worked great backwards and has set like that 14 yrs. kinda blows the whole PurdyRx out of the water. Once best setting found, have not moved it. Seymour

Tony Purdy's Rx was all about adjusting a movable weight along the length of the bbl until you found a NULL in the harmonic frequency of the bbl. So, I see no reason why it should not work when turned backwards as long as it has enough adjustment to reach one of the nulls. Tony was all about calculating an ideal length to start at, but that was only to get you close. There are multiple nulls along the length. An old bench rest shooter trick prior to the tuner's being developed was to sprinkle baby powder onto the bbl and shoot several shots. The powder would fall off due to the bbl vibrations everywhere except at the NULL points. Once found, you would take a file and mark it and then cut off the bbl at that point. In theory it created a muzzle crown with the least movement. However, it was not nearly as precise as the micro-click adjustable tuner which accomplished the same thing by moving the null to the muzzle. All without having to butcher the rifle.

Irish
 
Tony Purdy's Rx was all about adjusting a movable weight along the length of the bbl until you found a NULL in the harmonic frequency of the bbl. So, I see no reason why it should not work when turned backwards as long as it has enough adjustment to reach one of the nulls. Tony was all about calculating an ideal length to start at, but that was only to get you close. There are multiple nulls along the length. An old bench rest shooter trick prior to the tuner's being developed was to sprinkle baby powder onto the bbl and shoot several shots. The powder would fall off due to the bbl vibrations everywhere except at the NULL points. Once found, you would take a file and mark it and then cut off the bbl at that point. In theory it created a muzzle crown with the least movement. However, it was not nearly as precise as the micro-click adjustable tuner which accomplished the same thing by moving the null to the muzzle. All without having to butcher the rifle.

Irish
Irish, Had never heard of the baby powder trick. It seems the cutting at the null would create a whole new vibratory pattern though. Not sure I fully grasp Tony’s harmonic tuning, but it seems to have some sound base like tuning an organ pipe, or an exhaust header for desired rpm range. Have a sporter class 22 back-bored. Gave Tony all the dimensions and he concluded it closely matched one of his harmonics. This backward mounted tuner can only effect the whip in steel, and perhaps could do better in normal configuration using the Purdue Rx. My comment was not intended to denigrate, but to illustrate more than one way to skin a cat. I have seen your posted results and admire your skill. I enjoy your comments. Irish too. Seymour
 
Tony Purdy's Rx was all about adjusting a movable weight along the length of the bbl until you found a NULL in the harmonic frequency of the bbl. So, I see no reason why it should not work when turned backwards as long as it has enough adjustment to reach one of the nulls. Tony was all about calculating an ideal length to start at, but that was only to get you close. There are multiple nulls along the length. An old bench rest shooter trick prior to the tuner's being developed was to sprinkle baby powder onto the bbl and shoot several shots. The powder would fall off due to the bbl vibrations everywhere except at the NULL points. Once found, you would take a file and mark it and then cut off the bbl at that point. In theory it created a muzzle crown with the least movement. However, it was not nearly as precise as the micro-click adjustable tuner which accomplished the same thing by moving the null to the muzzle. All without having to butcher the rifle.

Irish
Irish, another tuning thought : a friend knew Frank Tirrell of well and spent considerable time in his tunnel. It was found that an exact placement of the 22 on the front and rear bags would shoot tightest. We took that exact setup and listened to the stock as it was fired. It sounded Dead. Moving it on the bags opened groups and a vibration was audible. A rapidly damping overhang of sound, but unmistakably different. There might be a corresponding bipod and rear bag placement that is optimal. Seymour
 
I was able to get out and shoot a bit of 22lr this afternoon, it was just too cold to get much accuracy. The air temp was 18f-19f with light winds of 0-5mph left to right at full value that were not constant. Aside from numb fingers in thick gloves the wind is hard to read accurately when the world is frozen, no natural wind indicators except the occasional mirage if the sun is right on the snow. You can clearly see the effects of the wind on the last 2 100 yard targets (top right and bottom right) I shot with the Anschutz at 100 yards, it was almost a good target...

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The target above was shot with my Anschutz 1827B that I recently pillar bedded and had Mark Penrod install a Benchmark 1-15 twist 26" 3 groove barrel on. So far this has proven to be the most accurate rimfire rifle I have ever shot (not that you can tell by the results from today). The top set is 100 yards, again notice the weather report on the last 2 targets. The bottom set was at 50 yards. I don't have a scope for both rifles so I was not zeroed with the Anschutz, I shot the 50 yard target first and just held the correction at 100 yards (it worked ok). These were shot with Eley Match Biathlon at 50, and Eley Match at 100. There may be some Eley Tenex Biathlon in there too (cant remember for sure... HA!)


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This target was shot with the VGW Vudoo with the 20" Ace Kukri barrel in a Manners folder and a Tubb T7T (excellent trigger!!!). I have only had the rifle out to the range 3 times including this trip, a quick zero trip and a local rimfire match all in similarly frigid weather. So I have yet been able to test ammo effectively to see what the rifle likes, or just shoot in warm weather so I have no idea how it will shoot. But this far with the given conditions I am very pleased with the rifle. This target was shot at 50 yards with Center X. I only shot 10 rounds at 100 yards with the Vudoo because after 2 scope changes and several reloading of magazines in 18f my fingers were done...
 
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If I had a good place to shoot either 50 meter indoor prone or 3 P and especially if there was a match series then I would have one (probably the Bleiker). But until then I can not justify it... :(
 
I was able to get out and shoot a bit of 22lr this afternoon, it was just too cold to get much accuracy. The air temp was 18f-19f with light winds of 0-5mph left to right at full value that were not constant. Aside from numb fingers in thick gloves the wind is hard to read accurately when the world is frozen, no natural wind indicators except the occasional mirage if the sun is right on the snow. You can clearly see the effects of the wind on the last 2 100 yard targets (top right and bottom right) I shot with the Anschutz at 100 yards, it was almost a good target...

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The target above was shot with my Anschutz 1827B that I recently pillar bedded and had Mark Penrod install a Benchmark 1-15 twist 26" 3 groove barrel on. So far this has proven to be the most accurate rimfire rifle I have ever shot (not that you can tell by the results from today). The top set is 100 yards, again notice the weather report on the last 2 targets. The bottom set was at 50 yards. I don't have a scope for both rifles so I was not zeroed with the Anschutz, I shot the 50 yard target first and just held the correction at 100 yards (it worked ok). These were shot with Eley Match Biathlon at 50, and Eley Match at 100. There may be some Eley Tenex Biathlon in there too (cant remember for sure... HA!)


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This target was shot with the VGW Vudoo with the 20" Ace Kukri barrel in a Manners folder and a Tubb T7T (excellent trigger!!!). I have only had the rifle out to the range 3 times including this trip, a quick zero trip and a local rimfire match all in similarly frigid weather. So I have yet been able to test ammo effectively to see what the rifle likes, or just shoot in warm weather so I have no idea how it will shoot. But this far with the given conditions I am very pleased with the rifle. This target was shot at 50 yards with Center X. I only shot 10 rounds at 100 yards with the Vudoo because after 2 scope changes and several reloading of magazines in 18f my fingers were done...
JBell, this is amazing accuracy in frigid conditions and essentially shooting blind without a way to read conditions. The NBRSA 2002 nationals held in Louisiana (warm), unlimited weight bench guns off 1-piece rests, at 100 yds: nat champion agged 0.662” for 5x5-shot groups. Picture a sea of wind flags. Concrete benches. Flip-flops. Your 100 yd agg here would have put you in 5th place !!!
 
JBell, this is amazing accuracy in frigid conditions and essentially shooting blind without a way to read conditions. The NBRSA 2002 nationals held in Louisiana (warm), unlimited weight bench guns off 1-piece rests, at 100 yds: nat champion agged 0.662” for 5x5-shot groups. Picture a sea of wind flags. Concrete benches. Flip-flops. Your 100 yd agg here would have put you in 5th place !!!

I probably could not hold MOA if I had to shoot off a bench and a rest. I stopped shooting BR probably 15 years ago, I wonder if they would let me shoot prone off a bipod...? HA Kidding of course, I am sure those boys would smoke me. But thank you for the compliment.
 
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Irish, another tuning thought : a friend knew Frank Tirrell of well and spent considerable time in his tunnel. It was found that an exact placement of the 22 on the front and rear bags would shoot tightest. We took that exact setup and listened to the stock as it was fired. It sounded Dead. Moving it on the bags opened groups and a vibration was audible. A rapidly damping overhang of sound, but unmistakably different. There might be a corresponding bipod and rear bag placement that is optimal. Seymour

I do not claim to totally understand Purdy either, but I have heard that holding the rifle a certain way can affect the harmonics. I have not been able to produce any measurable difference with this but I do not have access to any long indoor ranges. Until all of the other larger variables are eliminated it is difficult to see much impact from small things like barrel harmonics. I guess that is why the BR crowd are the strongest followers of Purdy et al. If you are shooting PRS matches and taking rest off of logs, rocks, barricades, etc, you are still dealing with other factors that eclipse any affects from the vibrations in the rifle. I have one rifle that when you pull the trigger it pings like a turning fork in the area near the receiver. None of my others do this. I was always curious why. It is also my most accurate rifle. I wonder if experimenting with how I place it on the bags or hold it would affect it but again, unless I am shooting on a dead calm day, I cannot see any variance.
 
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I do not claim to totally understand Purdy either, but I have heard that holding the rifle a certain way can affect the harmonics. I have not been able to produce any measurable difference with this but I do not have access to any long indoor ranges. Until all of the other larger variables are eliminated it is difficult to see much impact from small things like barrel harmonics. I guess that is why the BR crowd are the strongest followers of Purdy et al. If you are shooting PRS matches and taking rest off of logs, rocks, barricades, etc, you are still dealing with other factors that eclipse any affects from the vibrations in the rifle. I have one rifle that when you pull the trigger it pings like a turning fork in the area near the receiver. None of my others do this. I was always curious why. It is also my most accurate rifle. I wonder if experimenting with how I place it on the bags or hold it would affect it but again, unless I am shooting on a dead calm day, I cannot see any variance.
Irish, Agree with you 100%about field shooting vs the benchrest “physics lab” stuff. A steady hold and wind reading skill would bury any such way down in the noise. We caught an ideal outdoors condition when verifying the optimal bag placement of that one 22, and iirc the worst placement gave 50 yd groups of roughly . 25-.3”, where best placement would drop it to .2 or a hair better. This rig would run 245 on the USBR tgt and 250 on ir 50/50. Tested a Suhl indoors on a 1-piece rest looking at placement: worst groups ran .055” , where best placement gave .005” 5 shot groups all day long. This with best ammo and best tuner setting already confirmed. Totally free recoil. 20 yards as was all I had. It did well in the wind at 50, and that setting was “locked in”. MV is variable with a hard vs loose hold, and with a bolt vs a semi of same bbl length, possibly enough to affect tune. More practice from positions is a better use of time, but can’t help trying to incorporate anything down the rabbit hole that might yield an edge. Example: tuning an F-TR rig for best bag placement, then setting the bipod by that, has been successful. Thus wonder about doing the same with the 22’s. Intend to try it and report. Your best rifle with the “ping” is interesting. Does it seem like it’s due to ignition ie firing pin fall, or inherent in the system as a whole ? Ie, does it ping if dry fired ? Does it sound the same with most any ammo at any speed ? Is it there at any action screw torque setting ? Bbl bedded and action floated ? Perhaps it’s a hallmark of excellent ignition, but rampant speculation. All the more interesting since you have proven it’s accuracy.
 
I am a mediocre shooter but I shoot groups every range session and today the 6x5 came together pretty well for me. Results from 50 yards using a Vudoo V22 and Wolf Match Target. Shooting from prone with bipod and rear bag. Temperature was around 60 and very little wind. I wasn't sure how to measure the groups so I had to look back in the thread to see what value was deducted for the bullet diameter. Groups are: .239, .208, .376, .272, .208, and .285. Average is: .265.
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(didn't get a pic of the rifle today, so an older one is attached, it has an arca rail on it now but otherwise the same)
 
Irish, Your best rifle with the “ping” is interesting. Does it seem like it’s due to ignition ie firing pin fall, or inherent in the system as a whole ? Ie, does it ping if dry fired ? Does it sound the same with most any ammo at any speed ? Is it there at any action screw torque setting ? Bbl bedded and action floated ? Perhaps it’s a hallmark of excellent ignition, but rampant speculation. All the more interesting since you have proven it’s accuracy.

I shot the rifle last week. It is an Anschutz M54 SM. While shooting off of sand bags to check zero the morning before a BR fun shoot, I played around with how I held the rifle but could not generate any meaningful variance one way or the other. It just pounds them all into one hole on a calm day. I shot it that night in the fun shoot on a 25 rd card using the IBR50 tgt which is a fairly forgiving tgt that is scored best edge. This range has diabolical winds on most night shoots with all sorts of swirling vortexes. On the first card it scored a 246 and 11x in windy conditions for 1st place tying score with our top shooter who was shooting a Lithgow LA101 but winning on X-count. On the 2nd card scored 249 with 14x out of a possible 250pts to win both 50y matches over a couple of very tough customers who normally beat me. The Lithgow owner who is usually the one to beat put it away and got his well proven M54 Anschutz equipped with a 50x Sightron optic but was not able to match the score. I shot that last card very fast because the wind had died down as we started and I just knew it was going to pick up any moment. I was done in half the time as the rest of the shooters and kind of wished I had been more careful when I looked at the score and realized I had only dropped on point. But it did feel good to win even a local fun match.

As for the ping, I think it is something inherent to the Anschutz lock mechanism but am guessing.

Irish
 
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I shot the rifle last week. It is an Anschutz M54 SM. While shooting off of sand bags to check zero the morning before a BR fun shoot, I played around with how I held the rifle but could not generate any meaningful variance one way or the other. It just pounds them all into one hole on a calm day. I shot it that night in the fun shoot on a 25 rd card using the IBR50 tgt which is a fairly forgiving tgt that is scored best edge. This range has diabolical winds on most night shoots with all sorts of swirling vortexes. On the first card it scored a 246 and 11x in windy conditions for 1st place tying score with our top shooter who was shooting a Lithgow LA101 but winning on X-count. On the 2nd card scored 249 with 14x out of a possible 250pts to win both 50y matches over a couple of very tough customers who normally beat me. The Lithgow owner who is usually the one to beat put it away and got his well proven M54 Anschutz equipped with a 50x Sightron optic but was not able to match the score. I shot that last card very fast because the wind had died down as we started and I just knew it was going to pick up any moment. I was done in half the time as the rest of the shooters and kind of wished I had been more careful when I looked at the score and realized I had only dropped on point. But it did feel good to win even a local fun match.

As for the ping, I think it is something inherent to the Anschutz lock mechanism but am guessing.

Irish
Irish, What fun that must have been. Awesome shooting rifle and some dandy wind reading. Takes nerve to keep gunning fast knowing the risk of getting caught. Well-earned !
 
Irish, What fun that must have been. Awesome shooting rifle and some dandy wind reading. Takes nerve to keep gunning fast knowing the risk of getting caught. Well-earned !

It did feel good. I have been grinning all week. We have good competition at our local club and many shooters who are more dedicated than me both with their practice habits and their investment in equipment. I don't often win matches there but usually can place 2nd or 3rd if it is not too windy. I am not that good at reading the wind (but getting better). I am going back tonight with a couple of friends to joust with them again, but am taking a different rifle more in keeping with the spirit of the fun shoot. Using the Super Match to shoot the fun shoot is like shooting a mouse with a 416 Rigby. Winds are calm so far today but it is cold. 30F right now and will be colder by tonight. These matches are shot from an indoor firing line onto a lighted range at night by shooting through a little lexan port in each window. It keeps the shooters indoors and toasty but we still have to deal with the winter winds and cold once we send the shot. It is a fun way to spend an evening on a week night.
 
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It did feel good. I have been grinning all week. We have good competition at our local club and many shooters who are more dedicated than me both with their practice habits and their investment in equipment. I don't often win matches there but usually can place 2nd or 3rd if it is not too windy. I am not that good at reading the wind (but getting better). I am going back tonight with a couple of friends to joust with them again, but am taking a different rifle more in keeping with the spirit of the fun shoot. Using the Super Match to shoot the fun shoot is like shooting a mouse with a 416 Rigby. Winds are calm so far today but it is cold. 30F right now and will be colder by tonight. These matches are shot from an indoor firing line onto a lighted range at night by shooting through a little lexan port in each window. It keeps the shooters indoors and toasty but we still have to deal with the winter winds and cold once we send the shot. It is a fun way to spend an evening on a week night.
Irish, those nighttime conditions can seem “too easy” until the least little thing pushes.. smoke drifting straight up just leans a little. Go get um !
 
Irish, those nighttime conditions can seem “too easy” until the least little thing pushes.. smoke drifting straight up just leans a little. Go get um !

The night conditions were challenging last night and only got worse over time. I shot an 87y old rifle (Win Mod 52) equipped with a 60y old scope in 6-24x. I scored a 248 out of 250 with 14x's to lose by one point to a nationally ranked BR shooter using his Anschutz Mod 54 equipped with a 50x scope. His X count was 11. The margin by which I dropped that last shot was less than the width of the period at the end of this sentence. That was fun. Sometimes it is more fun to almost beat the guy with the better equipment than to win and have them say aw hell you won cause your shootin that !@#$ Olympic grade target rifle. Nobody can beat that, lol. But when you lose literally by 1/10th of a millimeter while shooting your clapped out old POS hand-me-down rifle that is older than dirt and has all the battle scars to prove it, at least you know they had to work hard to beat you. It don't matter that on any given day the Winchester or the Anschutz could beat the other one just depending on the quality of one or two bullets in that box of random popcorn that most 22lr suppliers make and call match grade ammo. On the 2nd card the winds picked up and we both dropped several points and I had 10 shots that were within 1/10th of a mm of being in or out of the 10 ring. I ended up with 242 pts and lost by 2pts that time. I changed ammo lots on that card to what should have been better ammo but was untested in that rifle and it bit me.

Irish
 
Been so cold here I just haven't gotten out, but you can only watch so many Opra re-runs :ROFLMAO: so had to tuff it out and get to the range this morning.

I shot my newly acquired Tikka T1X first from prone, 51.5 yards according to the range finder, and used CCI Std Vel. Groups were measured to outside edges, then minus one diameter to give center to center dimension. For groups five and six, I made a scope adjust to center up a little better. Overall, I was pretty happy with the results. I'm going to an NRL22 match this weekend - looking forward to using the T1X for the first time in that..
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Then I shot my 10/22 using same ammo, distance, and prone. It did pretty well - but not like the Tikka.
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I like this a lot. Seems pretty accurate out of the box. The stock is plastic but ridged and barrel floated. The stock is not really a keeper and on my list for replacement. Trigger is clean and I adjusted down to 1 1/4#. The magazines are pricey $25-$35 and only in 10 round configurations.

I hear (Internet and the T1X thread here) the most parts for T3X are compatible with T1X. Don't know that for sure.

Overall, I'm glad I got it.
 
Action is smooth and bolt throw is ~ 60deg. I've had a few feed jams I attribute to new mags and action. Racking the action fast seems to sometimes lead to that jam - again, may be newness. Medium speed but deliberate seems best. Fit & finish on bolt is smooth. The barrel is threaded 1/2-28NF for muzzle devices.
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I took my old Winchester 52 back for another run at our local 50y fun shoot last night and won both matches. Beat among others the 2018 WV bench rest champion who is ranked in the National top 10 in ARA BR shooting and another top 20 BR shooter. He was shooting a modified 10/22 with match bbl, kidd trigger and a Fajin stock with 36x Leupold optic. The other guy had his Anschutz 54 sporter with Sightron 10-50x. Fun shoot rules dictates we shoot factory sporters (repeaters) but mods are allowed but no tuners and must shoot off of two sand bags for the rest. Scored a 249 out of 250 with 16x to win the last match over 2nd place who also scored 249/14x. 2nd place shooter is another marksman who runs a Sako. The old worn out mod 52 was at its best. Great fun. We don't allow custom BR guns in the fun shoot but they compete on the weekends in the serious matches. My budget and temperament have not allowed me to get into the serious BR shooting. I did shoot the 52 in a few of their matches but it is almost always last place in that crowd since it is not set up for that kind of match and lacks the tuner, stock, trigger, and one piece rest needed just to be in the game.

It is educational to talk to the very experienced competitors in that game though. They know a ton about ammo and wind and its impact on projectiles. Tgt pic attached. This is the best this little rifle has scored for me. We had dead calm wind last night.

Irish
 

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Snow is finally melting down enough at the range there is still some access. Still at least a foot of cover most everywhere...

Ruger RRPR
Athlon Ares ETR
Sparrow II Suppressor
Wolf Match

Average doesn't beat my January CCI SV target, but smallest group does, and I haven't posted anything in this thread for a while....
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I got your best group updated.

I went to the range today with the hopes of being able to get this thread some activity now that the weather has "warmed up" some here. But 29f-30f and 10MPH gusting to 18 MPH would have simply a waste of ammo. after 30 rounds of centerfire I was loosing motivation...

Spring is coming soon! (I hope)
 
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No need to update anything - no new records with this target. Just my best showing of CCI SV for the day. I have tried a fair amount of hi velocity stuff through this gun and it is interested in none of it. Shot a box of Federal Lightning (Or whatever Federal calls it now) that has shot surprisingly well through some of my other rimfires. It was nearing shotgun territory out of this one. Still would like to try a little Center X just to see what it does. Even though it doesn't make it on the board, I am still a little proud of this target it as I shot it in the brisk winter wind today while a guy next to me was blazing away with a short barrel 454 Casull.


7044804
 
I got your best group updated.

I went to the range today with the hopes of being able to get this thread some activity now that the weather has "warmed up" some here. But 29f-30f and 10MPH gusting to 18 MPH would have simply a waste of ammo. after 30 rounds of centerfire I was loosing motivation...

Spring is coming soon! (I hope)


I'm working on a 100 yard entry if I can catch the weather right.
 
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Got out with the Vudoo today, conditions were tough with 5mph up to 15 mph gust switching from 9 o’clock to 6 o’clock. Plus blowing over 3’ to 5’ snow berms causing some weird swirling. At least it was warm-ish at 45f

The target was nothing special, and you can clearly see the wind blowing shots around even with me trying to keep on top of it (no wind flags).
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Nice shooting jbell, took my Vudoo out for it's first outting today, but I was dealing with 25 mph winds gusting up to 35mph, had one good group but had problems staying steady in the cross winds out in the open. The range I usually use is still under about 2 foot of water. Would post some targets , but they look not so good.
 

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