6X5 Thread V5.0 *new 1/1/21*

[jbell]

You know looking at those targets I am not sure if measuring the outer edge of the white is correct either. Those shoot and see targets are a bit tough to measure. You could measure one of the single bullet holes and determine how to calculate a center to center from that. Let me know and Ill post up whatever you think is correct.

It looks like you have a shooter on your hands (no surprise for a Vudoo), I look forward to seeing more from it! What Lapua ammo were you shooting?

 

[billmeek]

I'm just learning the software, but here's my shot at rough numbers. The splatterburst 12183b target is 3 inches, this is what I got using OnTarget TDS:

 

[RainierRimfire]

Cool man, I certainly do not mean to "call you out" or anything stupid like that. I am also not trying to diminish your targets or shooting because they are very good no matter how they are measured!

Are you measuring the holes or the white around the holes? I would guess that if you measure just a bullet hole in that style of target it will be around 0.150" to 0.190" (with your calipers zeroed not adjusted for bullet diameter). If you measure the white around the actual hole it will be closer to bullet diameter, probably 0.218" up to 0.222". It really depends on the material the target is made of, the backer that the target is attached to, how tight it is attached to the target, humidity of the air, and I am sure much more... The point is NONE of our groups are 100% accurate as it is VERY difficult to be exact. Years ago we (the people who were participating in this thread) had a discussion on how to measure groups and it was generally decided to measure the outside of the mark the bullets left on the target nd then subtract 0.222" for a center to center measurement. Again depending on so much it may be really close or not so much.

By the way, I would love to see a pic of the Vudoo!

 

[RainierRimfire]

You know looking at those targets I am not sure if measuring the outer edge of the white is correct either. Those shoot and see targets are a bit tough to measure. You could measure one of the single bullet holes and determine how to calculate a center to center from that. Let me know and Ill post up whatever you think is correct.

It looks like you have a shooter on your hands (no surprise for a Vudoo), I look forward to seeing more from it! What Lapua ammo were you shooting?
[/QUOTE
Yeah, the hole looks bigger than it really is on these splatter targets. I was not measuring at the outer edge of the white, but as best as I could tell where the grease mark was around the actual hole.

I will not use splatter targets moving forward.

Is zeroing my caliper at .222, then measuring, ok? I believe it gets the same results as measuring then subtracting. I will also bring the measurements out to the hundredths.

Ammo was Midas +

Thanks for your help!

 

[jbell]

View attachment 7064764

Damn nice looking rifle! That is a truck axle for a barrel! Is it the MTU contour? Does Midas shoot better for you than Center X? I only ask because I have never had Midas outshoot Center X in any of my rifles and have never understood that...

Ill get you posted up on the results now.

 

[RainierRimfire]

Damn nice looking rifle! That is a truck axle for a barrel! Is it the MTU contour? Does Midas shoot better for you than Center X? I only ask because I have never had Midas outshoot Center X in any of my rifles and have never understood that...

Ill get you posted up on the results now.

Thank you! Yes, I love it! It’s an amazing gun.

Yes, MTU.

Yeah, I am disappointed in Midas+ as well, compared to Center-X. They seem about the same to me.

Just ordered 1000 rounds of X-Act, will be here Friday. If X-Act isn’t markedly better, back to Center-X.

 

[jbell]

Thank you! Yes, I love it! It’s an amazing gun.

Yes, MTU.

Yeah, I am disappointed in Midas+ as well, compared to Center-X. They seem about the same to me.

Just ordered 1000 rounds of X-Act, will be here Friday. If X-Act isn’t markedly better, back to Center-X.

Let me know how the X-Act shoots, I have been meaning to order some but just haven't yet. For the $ Center X will be tough to beat but I am very curious about the X-Act.

 

[RainierRimfire]

Let me know how the X-Act shoots, I have been meaning to order some but just haven't yet. For the $ Center X will be tough to beat but I am very curious about the X-Act.

I will. Thanks for posting my results. Today was the first time I measured with a caliper zeroing it at .220.

This gun is ridiculous. Attached is what I shot last Sunday, cold bore, first five shots with Center-X at 50 yards. Unbelievable.

 

[RainierRimfire]

At 50 yards.

 

[Quarter Horse]

RanierRimfire, if you go to any store that sells firearms they will usually have NRA approved targets by someone like Champion. Pick the size you like and then flip it over and you can put target dots on it. It's light tan in color, has a soft nonreflective finish and is easy to measure on. Or, you could get really sophisticated like jbell and make dots with a magic marker. The shoot and see type targets are impossible to measure accurately.

The only reason the 6x5 has been around so long is two things. First is that jb has put a lot of time and work into keeping it going. Second is that it is incredible source of information. It is unfortunate that so much was lost when SH went to Scout and then again when we came back to the new/old SH. Just use the .222 to zero or subtract. It's not correct but it keeps us all on the same page.

New or not, you and your Vudoo are shooting very well.. I'm looking forward to seeing your targets with X-Act.

 

[RainierRimfire]

RanierRimfire, if you go to any store that sells firearms they will usually have NRA approved targets by someone like Champion. Pick the size you like and then flip it over and you can put target dots on it. It's light tan in color, has a soft nonreflective finish and is easy to measure on. Or, you could get really sophisticated like jbell and make dots with a magic marker. The shoot and see type targets are impossible to measure accurately.

The only reason the 6x5 has been around so long is two things. First is that jb has put a lot of time and work into keeping it going. Second is that it is incredible source of information. It is unfortunate that so much was lost when SH went to Scout and then again when we came back to the new/old SH. Just use the .222 to zero or subtract. It's not correct but it keeps us all on the same page.

New or not, you and your Vudoo are shooting very well.. I'm looking forward to seeing your targets with X-Act.

Quarter Horse - Thanks for the reply and info! Yesterday after Jbell educated me, I purchased just what you mention, light tan targets and 1 inch target dots. Yeah, I feel pretty foolish submitting those splatter targets. If I knew 24 hours ago what I know now, I would not have submitted those targets yesterday. Thanks for your patience.

 

[tansinator]

RanierRimfire, don't worry about it. Shoot, have fun and shoot some more. It will all come together and once you think you have it all figured out it will all fall apart.

 

[jbell]

Quarter Horse - Thanks for the reply and info! Yesterday after Jbell educated me, I purchased just what you mention, light tan targets and 1 inch target dots. Yeah, I feel pretty foolish submitting those splatter targets. If I knew 24 hours ago what I know now, I would not have submitted those targets yesterday. Thanks for your patience.

I cant speak for everyone, but I feel like most will agree but DONT ever feel foolish in this thread! There is a lot of experienced people who contribute frequently and all are very willing to share their knowledge. IMO there are no bad targets, or dumb questions. If you have a question or a problem with something just bring it up.

 

[BillOH]

Couple more entries. First is Ruger 10-22, SK Pistol, 50 yards. SWFA 20X scope. Shot from my back porch. Smallest: .316", Ave: .454". I sent this rifle to CPC for the works. I shot this target a while ago. I've shot several since, but they are all about the same.

Next, I slightly improved my average with my MPR. SK Pistol Match Special. Ave: .398". Smallest: .354". 50 yards from my back porch.

I had been printing targets off the internet. Recently I bought a couple of bundles of ARA targets. They are on a cardboard and show bullet holes better than printer paper. They also hold up better to the rain. I usually try to leave some targets posted and all I have to do is step out on the back porch and blast away. Only problem is I only have 50 yards off the porch.

 

[jbell]

Bill, that is a good shooting 10-22. I have your results updated.

 

[jbell]

Nothing great today for me, but shooting is always fun! These are all 50 yard targets, I didn’t even bother to keep my 100 yard stuff. That’s rimfire...

 

[drglock]

SK Standard Plus
Cz 457 Varmint
5 shots @ 50 yards x 6
Temp. 68
Humidity 65%
Wind 8-11 mph from my 7:30
Elevation 1102

 

[jbell]

drglock, I have you on the results. I think that is our first entry from a CZ 457. How do you like it?

 

[drglock]

drglock, I have you on the results. I think that is our first entry from a CZ 457. How do you like it?

I’m liking it quite a bit. I think a lot of people are going to be impressed with it . Especially at the price point that it’s at. I’m really wanting to see what it does once I get used to it and have a day with lower winds. Today was the lowest winds I’ve been able to shoot it in and it was still in 10mph range. The trigger is pretty nice on them, I’ve got mine setup at 14oz with no problems with it.

This is the best 50yd group so far. Everything was just right on this one.

 

[Quarter Horse]

A little lead in first before the photos. I bought a TX1 in January 2019. The motivation was to see if a T1X could be competitive in NRL.22. I had a 3-15x50 Weaver, Low manufacture, and mounted it on a DIP rail with Burris Signature Z-Rings. I shot a number of 6X5 targets that were in the .6"s but did not post them because I couldn't get a clear sight picture. I finally switched to to weak side, which was like the colloquial monkey and a football, but I shot a .509" Avg. 6x5 at 50yds. The weak side presented a clear image but from the weak side I knew I wasn't representing the rifle's capability.

Two days ago I mounted a 5-25 S&B PMII. Yesterday I shot another 6x5 with the PMII. The target and crosshair were not perfectly clear but were improved enough that I could make out the diamond at the center of the 1" dot.

Sorry about the quality of the pics. The 6x5 is the top row

There is no cold bore shot as I'd fired a few rounds getting the PMII on target. The groups measure .501", .488", .437", .529", .387"and .219". The average is .426". It was shot at 51yds. with negligible wind from 6 o'clock. I used Center-X but it was from three random lots that were one to three years old. I simply loaded the mags from three different partial boxes. Now for personal excuses. The last time I worked at this was four or five years ago. My performance is shown in the #s from the first iteration that jb saved. I was in my mid sixties then and used the same "bench". I'm now 70+. As can reasonably expected I am less capable now. Tomorrow I will try this again and we'll see what happens.

The point is that someone with greater skills or less impediments can absolutely get one of these to shoot in the mid .3"s. That makes the T1X absolutely competitive in an NRL match. $430.00 and competitive, you gotta be kidding me.

 

[jbell]

That is a good shooting rifle for the $. I bet with a little ammo testing it would be even better.

 

[drglock]

Cz 457 Varmint
SK Standard Plus
Wind 3-5 mph
Temp. 68
6x5 @ 50yds

CZ 457 Varmint
6x5 @ 100 yards
Fell apart on the last group but I’m still pleased with this gun.

 

[jbell]

drglock, that is a seriously good shooting rifle! Nice job, I updated your 50 yard results and have you on the board for the 100 yard.

 

[drglock]

drglock, that is a seriously good shooting rifle! Nice job, I updated your 50 yard results and have you on the board for the 100 yard.

Thanks jbell, I wish I could make it through one without blowing one of the groups. Probably ruined it today, have close to 600rds on it and gave it its first cleaning after shooting these.

 

[jbell]

Thanks jbell, I wish I could make it through one without blowing one of the groups.

Don't we all...

 

[RainierRimfire]

100 Yards
Vudoo 19” MTU
X-Act 22LR
Cold Bore - First 30 rounds of the day (I have no idea what happened with that first round???)
Not a great day:
48 degrees
Intermittent showers (I had to wait for a shower to end to finish the 6x5)
Wind 6mph
Humidity 49%

Not sure what I think about X-Act over Midas+ and Center-X yet. I will compare more thoroughly when the conditions are better.

 

[jbell]

It is hard to say with rimfire and cold bore at 100 yards. I would have to assume it is simply the cold bore POI shift...

 

[drglock]

100 Yards
Vudoo 19” MTU
X-Act 22LR
Cold Bore - First 30 rounds of the day (I have no idea what happened with that first round???)
Not a great day:
48 degrees
Intermittent showers (I had to wait for a shower to end to finish the 6x5)
Wind 6mph
Humidity 49%

Not sure what I think about X-Act over Midas+ and Center-X yet. I will compare more thoroughly when the conditions are better.
View attachment 7068557

I haven’t tried all the Lapua’s but have yet to shoot any that my gun liked.

 

[EddieE]

It is hard to say with rimfire and cold bore at 100 yards. I would have to assume it is simply the cold bore POI shift...

I thought cold bore was't an issue with match grade barrels?

 

[jbell]

I thought cold bore was't an issue with match grade barrels?

I have some where it has no POI shift at 50 yards, but I don't think I have ever tested cold bore with rimfire @ 100 yds so I honestly cant say. But @ 50 I don't see much.

 

[EddieE]

I have some where it has no POI shift at 50 yards, but I don't think I have ever tested cold bore with rimfire @ 100 yds so I honestly cant say. But @ 50 I don't see much.

OK, does it happen with center fire?

 

[jbell]

OK, does it happen with center fire?

Yes, you will see some POI shift with most centerfire barrels. Every barrel is different so some will show more POI shift than others but it is usually repeatable & therefore predictable.

 

[Cofercr]

Yes, you will see some POI shift with most centerfire barrels. Every barrel is different so some will show more POI shift than others but it is usually repeatable & therefore predictable.

I have a Weatherby Mark V 30-06 hunting rifle with a thin barrel. Great mountain rig and its cold bore shot is money. Shot two close after that who knows. ?

 

[blacknwhite11]

Did some more testing this evening.

50 yards indoors
CZ 455
Wolf MT

 

[jbell]

Very nice job balcknwhite11, I updated your results. That is a good shooting CZ

 

[BillOH]

Slight improvement on my 100 yard score. Vudoo. Ave .9165, best group .645. I might be learning how to shoot a little. 1st 4 groups are Midas and the last 2 are SK Blue. I was getting 100 yard dope with different ammo. The Midas likes 1.9 mil and the SK Blue likes 1.8 mil.

 

[jbell]

That is a big improvement Bill, nice job!

 

[RainierRimfire]

50 yards
V-22 A.I. AX
52 degrees
Partly cloudy
Light breezes 4-8mph
When shooting X-Act doesn’t seem that much better than Midas+, but the numbers don’t lie.

 

[jbell]

50 yards
V-22 A.I. AX
52 degrees
Partly cloudy
Light breezes 4-8mph
When shooting X-Act doesn’t seem that much better than Midas+, but the numbers don’t lie.
View attachment 7071756

I don't think I have shot any Midas out of my Vudoo yet, but I have yet to get it to shoot as well as Center X out of any of my rimfires. I do want to try X-Act though. I will probably order both at some point. Have you tried Center X?

 

[RainierRimfire]

I don't think I have shot any Midas out of my Vudoo yet, but I have yet to get it to shoot as well as Center X out of any of my rimfires. I do want to try X-Act though. I will probably order both at some point. Have you tried Center X?

Yeah, Center -X seems to shoot very close to Midas+ out of my gun. Just started shooting X-Act and so far it seems to be just a bit better than everything else I’ve tried. But for between $25 and $29 a box, it better.

 

[RainierRimfire]

Sunny, 70, and a little breezy.

Beautiful day.

 

[Sieg]

jbell - First time player here. Shot the first target with a sighter since the gun was dialed in at 200yds previously. Let it cool for 10 minutes and shot the 6x5. Second target was a 15 minute cool down period.

First target was std printer paper and a round measured .208 avg, second target was heavier card stock paper and measured at .206 avg. Assuming the scoring formula is height x width /2 and subtract the bullet diameter? My posted pics don't have the average, I'll do the math and edit pics once confirmed. Pics edited to reflect widest averages less .208" and .206".

 

[tansinator]

Sieg, take widest point and subtract bullet diameter. That's the way it is measured, Good Shooting!

Eddie

 

[jbell]

jbell - First time player here. Shot the first target with a sighter since the gun was dialed in at 200yds previously. Let it cool for 10 minutes and shot the 6x5. Second target was a 15 minute cool down period.

First target was std printer paper and a round measured .208 avg, second target was heavier card stock paper and measured at .206 avg. Assuming the scoring formula is height x width /2 and subtract the bullet diameter? My posted pics don't have the average, I'll do the math and edit pics once confirmed.

Sieg, take widest point and subtract bullet diameter. That's the way it is measured, Good Shooting!

Eddie

Just like Eddie said find the widest point in the group and measure the outer edges and then subtract bullet diameter that will give you the center to center (which is the way most groups are scored). You don't have to relabel the targets if you don't want, just post the smallest group size CTC and average for all 6 groups CTC and Ill get you on the results.

 

[Sieg]

Just like Eddie said find the widest point in the group and measure the outer edges and then subtract bullet diameter that will give you the center to center (which is the way most groups are scored). You don't have to relabel the targets if you don't want, just post the smallest group size CTC and average for all 6 groups CTC and Ill get you on the results.

Just updated the pics with averages. Thanks

 

[jbell]

Just updated the pics with averages. Thanks

I got you on the board!

 

[Sieg]

I got you on the board!

Thanks, first time I've shot a target prone. I had my share of influence errors in those groups, mainly with rear bag variables. This lot of Rifle Match is better than I.

 

[Scootch]

First day it hasn't rained since my Vudoo arrived. I think the gun shoots twice as good as I do. There is too much movement in my system. These were shot off a portable bench with a Protektor Dr. Long Range rear bag and a Cowan (sp) rest with a Protektor owl ear front bag. I attempted prone but the LOP is about four inches too short. If I'm going to throw one its usually the first shot at the new point of aim.

Scootch

 

[brianf]

EDIT: posted on wrong thread (this one), have since moved it

"no droids here, just move along"

took my son to lowes and picked up some rattle-can spray paint.
he wanted (8 years old) what i took as urban winter camo...i think
pics look slightly "greener", actual is a touch more gray tone

started out:
black AX chassis
black vudoo kukri 16"
black atlas
black march 10-60 x x56 high master (prob the first high master ever to be spray painted)

took about 15 min in the garage

 

[Sieg]

First day it hasn't rained since my Vudoo arrived. I think the gun shoots twice as good as I do. There is too much movement in my system. These were shot off a portable bench with a Protektor Dr. Long Range rear bag and a Cowan (sp) rest with a Protektor owl ear front bag. I attempted prone but the LOP is about four inches too short. If I'm going to throw one its usually the first shot at the new point of aim.

Scootch

Nice shooting. Movement or not, that gun and ammo combo appears to be a solid shooter.