7-6.5 PRC

Jackomason

Jackomason

Poop-smith aka "Turd Herder"
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Minuteman
Dec 26, 2013
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Westcliffe Colorado
#1
I think there was a group of us that was super stoked that the 7 PRC would be a adaptation of the 6.5 PRC, at least, I was.

Now that we know that it's not, we can start making one ourselves. I've talked to PVA and they have a reamer ready to go. Brass is easy to find and good quality. F-class guys are pushing 180 hybrids 2900-2925. I'd imagine that's using a long action though. Based on looks alone I don't think it'd be giving much if anything up to the 7 RSAUM or sherman's (SS & SST).

It seems that using a short action will always be compromising when looking at a magnum. I'm hoping this fits my needs until I build a dedicated ELR rig. I've been bouncing a lot of ideas around but I think this is where I'm landing.

What do you guys think?

Has anyone here been running one?

224 Valkyrie / 6.5 Creedmoor / 7-6.5 PRC
20221015_123946.jpg

7-6.5/w 180 hybrid, 162 eldx, 151 cayuga, 180 hybrid. All set at mag length.
20221015_124139.jpg
 
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#7
spife7980 said:
If you single load -vs having to fit in a mag and feed port- then you don’t have to make many compromises with what you already have.
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True, but still a compromise somewhere. I'll have to do some soul searching to get myself to single feed. But it's not off the table.

wade2big said:
What do you do for dies?
Click to expand...
6.5 PRC Type S with 7mm bushing.
 
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#11
A medium action seems like the ticket for a 7-6.5PRC. I was planning a 7 SAUM build (medium action in hand, barrel ordered, stock ordered) but the brass situation is atrocious. 7-6.5PRC is interesting.

I considered a 7 Sherman Max just because I could buy brass today. Even if I ran it at 7SAUM performance I would be satisfied.

7-6.5PRC is interesting.

I think Hornady screwed the pooch making the 7 PRC a long action. Just like they screwed the pooch using 6.5 Grendel case for the 6 ARC.

The 6.8 SPC case and bolt head would have been better to me. Of course I do run a 224 Valkyrie bolt gun for my daughter so I’m a little biased. 6.8 bolt face is stronger if I believe what I’ve read.
 
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#12
I don't think 7 PRC is big enough, it seems like they made a bit too many compromises.

7/300 Winmag was an excellent wildcat.
7/300 .PRC would be an excellent evolution of it, especially if it's in a long action that is big enough to handle really long bullets.

Just deal with the extra 1/2 inch of bolt travel and stop trying to handicap everything by this obsession with short and mediumish actions.
 
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#13
W54/XM-388 said:
I don't think 7 PRC is big enough, it seems like they made a bit too many compromises.

7/300 Winmag was an excellent wildcat.
7/300 .PRC would be an excellent evolution of it, especially if it's in a long action that is big enough to handle really long bullets.

Just deal with the extra 1/2 inch of bolt travel and stop trying to handicap everything by this obsession with short and mediumish actions.
Click to expand...
I get it. Just personal preference. Guess there should be 2 versions: 7-PRS and 7-PRC…

As with anything 40% happy, 40% disappointed and 20% don’t give a f*#K

PS - I don’t shoot PRS; I just thought it was a good play on acronyms. PRS folks may be in the 20% for all I know.
 
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#14
Agree with both you guys, if I'm going to move to a long action I'm going to go big. The goal is to shoot far.

I'll admit that efficiency is attractive but that's not what this is about, it's more that I already have a completely set up rifle that I should make the most of and really strech it out before moving on to bigger and better things.
 
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#16
Elite_KG said:
I think Hornady screwed the pooch making the 7 PRC a long action. Just like they screwed the pooch using 6.5 Grendel case for the 6 ARC.

The 6.8 SPC case and bolt head would have been better to me. Of course I do run a 224 Valkyrie bolt gun for my daughter so I’m a little biased. 6.8 bolt face is stronger if I believe what I’ve read.
Click to expand...

It's 6 of one half dozen of the other. You can run the 6.8 case head at 55-58ksi but it has a smaller internal volume, especially when you push the mouth back far enough to run 105-110gr bullets without the entire bearing surface stuffed into the case. I think you'd be in exactly the same place, if not a little slower. Having some bearing surface out of the case in conjunction with the creedmoor/prc/arc style throat tends to make things less sensitive for precision IME. Reference valkyrie and 88-90gr bullets, especially in gassers.

7mm + 180-195gr bullets + short action doesn't work out. Not at SAAMI pressures in factory guns, which is-- whether we like it or not-- what actually drives the market. 7 PRC is going to be well received by the hunting and firearms industry. You could probably short throat one and run it in a medium action too, or as this thread points out it's easy enough to just blow out a 6.5 PRC mouth.

I personally think the medium length action is where a 7mm cartridge with a .532 head shines, but there are basically zero large-scale rifle mfgs. on board for that... so, next best thing.
 
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#17
Ledzep said:
It's 6 of one half dozen of the other. You can run the 6.8 case head at 55-58ksi but it has a smaller internal volume, especially when you push the mouth back far enough to run 105-110gr bullets without the entire bearing surface stuffed into the case. I think you'd be in exactly the same place, if not a little slower. Having some bearing surface out of the case in conjunction with the creedmoor/prc/arc style throat tends to make things less sensitive for precision IME. Reference valkyrie and 88-90gr bullets, especially in gassers.

7mm + 180-195gr bullets + short action doesn't work out. Not at SAAMI pressures in factory guns, which is-- whether we like it or not-- what actually drives the market. 7 PRC is going to be well received by the hunting and firearms industry. You could probably short throat one and run it in a medium action too, or as this thread points out it's easy enough to just blow out a 6.5 PRC mouth.

I personally think the medium length action is where a 7mm cartridge with a .532 head shines, but there are basically zero large-scale rifle mfgs. on board for that... so, next best thing.
Click to expand...
Do you agree with @Jackomason that a 7mm rem mag seater die is a good option to seat a .284 bullet in the PRC case or would another cartridge die possibly be better?
 
#18
It will depend a little bit on who makes the die, but in general yes that should be safe.

Hornady seaters, for example don't fit the body of the case, just the neck/mouth so you could use the same die for 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5 PRC.
 
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#19
Jackomason said:
I think there was a group of us that was super stoked that the 7 PRC would be a adaptation of the 6.5 PRC, at least, I was.

Now that we know that it's not, we can start making one ourselves. I've talked to PVA and they have a reamer ready to go. Brass is easy to find and good quality. F-class guys are pushing 180 hybrids 2900-2925. I'd imagine that's using a long action though. Based on looks alone I don't think it'd be giving much if anything up to the 7 RSAUM or sherman's (SS & SST).

It seems that using a short action will always be compromising when looking at a magnum. I'm hoping this fits my needs until I build a dedicated ELR rig. I've been bouncing a lot of ideas around but I think this is where I'm landing.

What do you guys think?

Has anyone here been running one?
Click to expand...
I did one, a 7mm-6.5 PRC. Well, I guess the appropriate way to say it is "doing" one since the barreled-action has been at the Cerakote guy for like 5 months so I haven't fully put the rifle together yet! Mine was designed to use a SA (I had just traded for an Archimedes so I just switched the BF to 0.532 and off we went) but the bullet I originally wanted to run, the 190 Hybrid, was way to long. I switched to the 180 Hybrid and, while sitting a little deeper than I'd like, it's acceptable at just below the body/shoulder junction. I know, not ideal but it'll work. I'm also building a little stock of 166 ATips. They're of course lighter than we want to see in a SAUM-ish case, but they performed well in a 7mm-08 I had and out to a mile I think they'll do okay in this new gun. Plus, I can get them far more readily than the 180s. Actually, given the 2.95" OAL restriction of a binderless SA magazine, I pretty much think of this as a grownup 7mm-08, and I'm okay with that for now. I may sell this in the future and move to at least an XM so I can really get all the ability of the case. I may also do a single feed-only 190 Hybrid load but we'll just have to see.
2586589D-6B30-4423-A165-52E91C599F55.jpeg

7mm-6.5 PRC: 180 Hybrid > 166 ATip > 7mm08 w/ 166 ATip

One of my core tenets in precision rifle is the brass. I like the concept of the 7/65 in part because Lapua is making brass, as are other good manufacturers. Hornady is still one of the only 6ARC suppliers I've been able to get brass from and I pretty much hate it. I'll be following this thread to see what direction other folks go with the 7mm-6.5 PRC concept
1665943369085.png

And for those interested:
Action: Archimedes SA
Barrel: Krieger MTU 28" 8tw
Stock: Bravo w/ a bunch of goodies on it
Trigger: B&A TSP
Brake: ?
Scope: SB PMII in Badger rings
Dies: Whidden custom set based off the reamer print above
 
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#21
It's a cool cartridge, a great size for the long bullets especially on a medium action.

But I'd think neck turning would be required. Both from necking up (shoulder brass is usually thicker than in the neck) and because those long bullets seated at SA mag length are well into the neck-shoulder junction. There's a reason all the F-Open guys (used to?) neck tun the Lapua 6.5-284 brass after necking up to 284. I mean beyond the general anal retentiveness.
 
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#22
fclassparadise said:
I agree! 7-300WM Improved is still a better cartridge. The 7RUM is insanely better than the 7PRC and other 7mm wildcats based off of th 404 Jeffery are again way better.

I am tired of all the garbage cases being developed that will fit in Standard Action or Short Actions we have had plenty of that since the 1960's. I want the gun companies to give us a longer action as the standard length already!!! Until then all of these proprietary cases are pretty much super consumerism and a waste like a revolvering door or a hamster on a wheel. I have been asking for a faster twist on 243 and 25-06 factory rifles since the late 1980's early 1990's so you could shoot heavy ELD bullets with a factory rifle.

Sadly we do not have longer actions and we do not have widely available faster twist factory rifles in 243 or 25-06 or others to take advantage of modern bullet designs still. Instead we get a constant stream of proprietary cartridges that do not do much more than has already been done outside of faster twist barrels to handle more modern bullet designs.

As long as people keep buying these rifles, brass and ammo we will never get anything new and actual useful like an affordable longer action. We need a longer length standard action no fatter cartridges that will fit in a standard or short action. The current situation is great for ammo manufactures and rifle manufactures but terrible for consumers it keeps you trapped in a circle never actual getting ahead.

Everyone loved to hate the Remington Ultra Magnum's but they where truly the first OEM SAMMI huge leaps forward that previously only existed for wildcatter's playing around with something like the 404 Jeffry case. Not since Weatherby had we seen anything like them. The 7RUM if I recall properly was 108gr. or 109gr. case capacity. That was back in 2002
Click to expand...

I would add that the .338LM played a very important role in opening up the shooting world to the accepting that super magnum class cartridges could go far beyond what was available at the time and getting at least some manufacturers to build on longer actions with bigger bolt faces.

Now if you would forget all about magazine length stuff (which is where .338LM fell down because they built the standard for short stubby bullets), and take a full .338LM case and neck it down to 7mm with a nice heavy latest generation bullet in a fast twist barrel, you could really have something special.
 
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#23
I decided to go with a 7-6.5 PRC variant in place of a 7 SAUM or 7 Sherman Max. The intent was to run a magnum 7mm on a medium action. Since I’m not too concern with maximum velocity. Load data and testing I’ve seen shows a velocity right around or slightly above 2900 fps pushing the Berger 180 hybrid.

Since 7 SAUM brass is essentially unobtainable and ADG is also making the 7 Sherman max brass I decided quality 6.5 PRC brass is easier to acquire. Already have 100 Lapua 6.5 PRC to start.

I modified the 6.5 PRC reamer print and included the slight body diameter modifications to prevent sticky cases. I also left the neck near 7mm SAAMI spec as to avoid turning brass. I will likely need to turn shoulders after the first or first couple firings.

Didn’t want to stamp my barrel with some BS “7-5.6 PRC” so I decided to call it a 28 TAC for the reamer I specified.

Just more waiting…..12-16 weeks for a reamer. Already waited for barrel and stock. Barrel is here and stock will be here in a week.
 
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#24
Nice, I've got a 26" barrel coming from PVA. I've been able to find lapua brass (that stuff dried up qick). I've got quite a few powders to test. I'm expecting 2850- 2900 in a mag fed short action. Maybe that's a reach but I guess we'll know the truth soon enough.

Where are you going to start with powders?
 
#25
It's 6 to one and half a dozen to another. Why not have extra case capacity and just seat the bullet in deeper? In that case I can at least single feed and seat them long.

I don't disagree with your point at all though, being able to use Lapua brass is a big bonus and if I were writing this a few months ago I would have said avalibility and cost of brass was better too. To my own embarrassment I just got 100pc lapua for $190 + tax.

I don't think I'll have issues with doughnuts using SAC bushings and a mandrel. But I could be wrong. The SAC bushings don't size the whole neck and the mandrel pushes everything out.

I'd be nice if there were decent alternatives to the 180 hybrid.
 
#26
W54/XM-388 said:
I don't think 7 PRC is big enough, it seems like they made a bit too many compromises.

7/300 Winmag was an excellent wildcat.
7/300 .PRC would be an excellent evolution of it, especially if it's in a long action that is big enough to handle really long bullets.

Just deal with the extra 1/2 inch of bolt travel and stop trying to handicap everything by this obsession with short and mediumish actions.
Click to expand...
The point is, if I already have a short action custom gun, with a top scope on it, changing out the bolt and barrel will let me play.

Instead of spending another $10-12K to build a new gun, you can do it for less than $2K with barrel, bolts, brass and dies.

If you are going long action 7mm, there is no reason to not do a 7 Norma Mag. Why handicap yourself?
 
#27
reubenski said:
I guess the only reason to do a 7-6.5PRC is brass availability, right? We're slicing the pie really thin with all the 7 - SAUMs, WSMs, SSTs, SSs, etc. Performance has always been within 100-200fps or so of each other. Brass availability has led us from one cartridge to the other. With a little bit of short-action-fitting added in.

I built a 7WSM on the tail end of it's hey day when GAP was shooting 7WSMs in fledgling pre-PRS matches. I stockpiled 300 or 400pcs of virgin Winchester brass, loaded 50rds for hunting and still have them years later unfired. It is a hunting rifle for me and I basically have 2 lifetimes of new brass, lol. But I loaded 180gr Bergers at a comfortable 2950fps. In fact I never even explored top end; don't know where it is. 26" barrel and no pressure signs that I can see. I did chamber it in a long action tho so I have all the case to work with and I'm using RL26.

If I was going to build a 7mm short action that I was going to shoot hundreds of rounds a year it would be either a 7 SST. The 7-6.5PRC has that bullet stuck way down there in the case. If you're going to lose case capacity due to the bullet, why not just start with a smaller case anyway? Same capacity, but the bullet is seated in the neck where it's supposed to be. When I shot a .284W, I had to neck up 6.5-284W brass(irony). It produced donuts and I had to trim them out. At least, since I was shooting it in a long action I never had to seat the bullets far enough down the neck where the donuts would be an issue. Even when you trim them out, they can creep back over a few sizings. I see this potential happening for you.
Click to expand...
Not just brass but dies. Thats the problem with the Shermans and many of the others. Either or Bad Brass choices or die choices. Go try and buy some SAUM brass or 300wsm, which almost nobody reputable makes. Sherman is availible and its adg which is decent but the die choices are terrible.
 
#28
reubenski said:
I don't think a specific die or mandrel will defeat donuts. Also, If you don't size all of the neck and you push brass out with a mandrel(I'm doubtful it's going to push it all out) you will end up with a thick ring in your neck, now causing tight neck issues, no?
Click to expand...
I guess I'll let you know haha. The bushing leaves quite a bit of neck unsized so I'd have a hard time imagining making a huge doughnut. It would have to push a lot of material down there. Time will tell but I'm not going to let the "what ifs" stop me from trying and passing along what I learn. I think this could be a really good option in the short action mag world.
 
#29
He is not selling forster dies anymore you are stuck with hornady. I have told him for like a year he needs to get Wilson, Widden or Redding to make dies, its whats holding people back from buying sherman mags but here we are. Custom Widdens are almost $500 and he just changed the reamer prints again.
 
#31
Jackomason said:
Nice, I've got a 26" barrel coming from PVA. I've been able to find lapua brass (that stuff dried up qick). I've got quite a few powders to test. I'm expecting 2850- 2900 in a mag fed short action. Maybe that's a reach but I guess we'll know the truth soon enough.

Where are you going to start with powders?
Click to expand...

I have several but was planning to try N555 first. F-Class John did some testing on 7-6.5 PRC (7-6.5PRC-3DMP) and was around 2900 fps with 180 Hybrid.

The F-class version has more freebore than I wanted so I will give up some case capacity. My dummy rounds are ~3.100”
 
#32
I got to screwing around with some of the hornady brass that a friend gave me. Filled it up to the neck maybe a tad below of H1000 and I was able to get 60gr in there. Seated a 180 hybrid with minor crunching.

I'm hoping this combo gives me 2850-2900fps. I'd be happy with that. That's based off some sherman data I've been reading.... so take that with a big o'l grain of salt.

Again this would be in an MDT short action mag. 2.955" max.

Any other bullets worth looking into? I think that 180 is pushing it in a short action but I'm not sure what else is even worth looking at.
 
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#33
First question: How many rounds do I need in the magazine with an overbore barrel burning magnum for hunting or elr?

If 3 rounds are enough a Blaser R8 is a short "223 micro action" that will handle 338LM, 375H&H and 500 Jeffery.
The R8 will handle anything from 22lr to 500 Jeffery.
Measure the distance from trigger to the muzzle and compare the R8 with any traditional bolt action. The R8 is about 4" "shorter" than a traditional long bolt action. The R8 can have a 26" barrel compared to a long bolt action with a 22" barrel when both rifles have the same OAL.

These barrel extentions cost app $250 and any barrel and caliber can be fitted to the R8:

1670882860618.png


Here's a custom IBI carbon R8 barrel made with a barrel extention:

1670883062748.png


Here's a R8 in 338LM. Notice the distance from trigger to chamber end of the barrel. The R8 is effectivly about 4" shorter than a traditional long bolt action

1670883384884.png
 
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#34
THLR will make any man want an R8. But in all reality I don't see myself going very far from zermatt. Also the prefits are the same for long action and short. So that's likely the path I'll take if I get the ELR bug.
 
#35
I was able to further test two bullets (180 Hybrids and 166 ATips) and two powders (H4831SC and N-165) today. I liked what I saw. Out of my Archimedes SA and 28" barrel, I got the 180s up to 2876 and 2935 with N-165 and H4831SC respectively. That said, I'm starting to think the real unsung hero with this cartridge is the 166 ATip. I was able to push it to 3116 with H4831SC and with a little faster powder I think there's still meat left on the bone. But even down around 2900/2950 it's winner. I had 3 or 4 hits on an IPSC today at a mile with no load development, just barrel break-in. I'll soon take it to 2k. With the slightly reduced case capacity of the 7mm-6.5prc compared to the SAUM/WSM, the ATip is a quality option
 
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#42
Wannashootit said:
Whole 'nother type of receiver needed because of the boltface/bolt thrust.
No different that building a .338 Lapua, and I won't do that on a long action not engineered for it. Yeah, some do it- not this guy.
Click to expand...
Not at all. You can run norma easily in any aftermarket action. It's shitty remingtons built around the 300 lapua that was an issue.
 
#44
Jackomason said:
I don't think I'll have issues with doughnuts using SAC bushings and a mandrel. But I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I necked up in one pass over a mandrel and definitely got a doughnut in the process. I never wanted to get into neck turning...but some measure is required to create what I think is an outstanding cartridge. I used the inside reamer from K&M. Essentially it has the cutter on the end so it can cut out the doughnut material without reaming the whole mouth, this is beneficial over some other products. However, I did find it a bit difficult to prevent swirling (the cutter digs in a little more on one side and since I was using a drill transfers the indentation around the circumference of the mouth making a swirl). It worked pretty well though. To achieve more consistency though, I think I'm going to jump into the equipment necessary to do the outside.
kmshooting.com

7mm Cal Carbide Cutting Pilot - K+M Precision Shooting Products

Carbide pilots with flutes for doughnut removal.
kmshooting.com kmshooting.com
 
#45
I'll probably cave and order the K&M turning stuff.

What twist are you running? With the cost of A-Tips it might be worth looking at solids. Although spotting impacts/misses can kinda be crappy with solids it'd still be cool to see what this cartridge can do!

The one I've got coming is a 1:8 so it should handle everything fine.
 
#46
McWhorter custom rifles makes this round shortly after the 6.5prc came out. I’ve been wanting to do a 7mm variant and the 7-6.5prc has some interest for me because I’ve got just a custom SA and no money to build another custom. I guess I could sell or trade the bighorn SA for a long but I already have this one. I’m not looking for some extreme throat burner but I like my short, fat, efficient rounds.
 
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#47
My 7 MAX runs great w the ADG brass and Whidden dies. Building a 7 PRC w RCC brass and Whidden dies but i think the 7 MAX may have a slight advantage. Pick your action length, bullet and send it. I think some get tied up in chasing velocity or obsessing over ballistic tables instead of sending lead downrange!
 
#48
IHFarmer07 said:
McWhorter custom rifles makes this round shortly after the 6.5prc came out. I’ve been wanting to do a 7mm variant and the 7-6.5prc has some interest for me because I’ve got just a custom SA and no money to build another custom. I guess I could sell or trade the bighorn SA for a long but I already have this one. I’m not looking for some extreme throat burner but I like my short, fat, efficient rounds.
Click to expand...
I'm keeping my origin haha. Same situation, I'd like a "cheap" alternative to building a dedicated ELR rig. If I like it I can put the 7-6.5 PRC barrel on a long action and have a second 300 PRC barrel for getting the job done right.
BCX said:
My 7 MAX runs great w the ADG brass and Whidden dies. Building a 7 PRC w RCC brass and Whidden dies but i think the 7 MAX may have a slight advantage. Pick your action length, bullet and send it. I think some get tied up in chasing velocity or obsessing over ballistic tables instead of sending lead downrange!
Click to expand...
I mean... someone's gotta nerd out at some point. What better time than when considering a new cartridge? I agree though I won't be loosing sleep over 50-75fps.
 
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#49
Alright, I've got my neck turning tool in from sinclair. It's not fancy but it'll work. I'm glad I got it. There is clearly a doughnut that's bigger than I thought. Set the cutter really shallow and ran some norma brass through just to get a feel for how this thing works. Now I've gotta figure out how much I want to "touch" the shoulder.

20230117_162727.jpg


I'm about to feel really guilty about turning some lapua brass...

Cleans up good though.

20230117_163749.jpg
 
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#50
Idk if anyone had seen this 5 years ago, I followed them hard core for awhile because it was always cool to see what it took. This guy is shooting a 7saum in a SA with a hand tight 30” barrel shooting 183 sierra bullets at 3k. That would tell me that a 7-6.5prc would be very very close in performance as this rifle. It goes to show people that power is not the end all be all.




 
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