7.62 Modern Battle Rifle Experiences?

[USACS]

I am looking for anyone that has feedback as a result of first hand experience shooting a modern battle rifle. This can be anything from sending some rounds downrange during a rental all the way up to owning one or using one in combat.


A couple of criteria:
-Particular interest in accuracy and reliability.
-Emphasis on semi-automatic PISTON operation ONLY. (DI options already nailed down)
-I'm only interested in modern 7.62x51/.308 battle rifles. I don't care about the M1A/M14, HK91/G3, FAL, etc.

Rifle would need to be capable of "double duty" as both patrol/entry team rifle and DMR/sniper role.
-Example of options being explored:
FN SCAR-17
HK MR762A1
LWRCI REPR
POF P308
Ruger SR-762
Sig 716
Any others??

Thanks much!

 

[Guest]

What kind of feedback are you looking for? I own a P308 and SIG 556R 7.62x39.

Sent from my Sprint Galaxy S4

 

[Top0369]

I have a SCAR 17 (in the more accurate black color), and a Springfield SOCOM 16. The SCAR shoots a lot softer than the SOCOM, is a lot lighter and more maneuverable, is more accurate, and is a hell of a lot easier to take down and clean. I got it just before it started getting cold here, and I did not have optics for it yet, so I only took it out once to 100 yds getting the iron sights dialed in. I now have a leupold MK4 that should give me enough glass to go out to 500 yds without any problem, and I also will throw on an Atlas Bipod, so as soon as we get a good range day, I'll go back out. Reports from my friends on the FN Forum are that the rifle is close to 1 MOA, ammo dependent. I don't know that for certain on my rifle yet. One thing most SCAR owners do is put a Geissele trigger on, and that seems to tighten groups up considerably, and I did this as well, as the "modern battle rifle" trigger was just too gritty. Other than that- fantastic gun!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Havent owned one but you cant wrong with a GAP-10. You didnt list it so I figured Id throw it out there. Easily some of the most accurate .308-compatible ARs out there. And with a 16-18" barrel you should be able to get the weight down pretty good, plus theres plenty of options for the stock. With a 1-8x or 2.5-10x compact scope it should be a very mobile rifle with, in all likelihood, just as good but most likely BETTER accuracy than any other semi-auto out there.

Another that bears considering is the JP LRP-07. Sweet AR-10 platform rifle with all the options, etc. Nice thing about those is you can get it with a side-charging bolt. Quality/fit/finish/accuracy is gonna be on the same level as a GAP.

One more you werent considering is a Larue OBR. Nice rifles from what I hear. Wait times are absolutely ridiculous, bordering on endless. If you could find one on the classifieds it wouldnt be a bad buy though.

Personally though, everything I need to know about Mark Larue I learned right here. What a class act:
Guess I gotta get me a GAP-10 rifle now :-\ - Page 1 - AR15.COM

Gimme a f*%kin break.

 

[mildot326]

Deleted, piston only

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

Here's a review of the DPMS RECON I just purchased and also the NEW GEN II DPMS Thread that has been pretty Hot lately.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...i-just-lucky-real-dpms-recon-scout-308-a.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/231007-dpms-gii-308-rifles.html

 

[LRRPF52]

I've used all the legacy battle rifles overseas, as well as some of their predecessors, in addition to the current generation of 7.62 NATO self-loaders. I consider those to be divided between SASS and utilitarian carbines. Here are two that I have more experience with, although the LMT is DI.

* LMT 7.62 MWS
* H&K MR762A1

The only one that really covers the weight and profile you are looking for I think is the SCAR-17, while accuracy will be ~1 MOA and more on many of them, which is more than you need for DM.

I've had a lot of these guns come through my DM courses, and I'm the type of guy that leans towards as lightweight of a system as possible, with a smooth recoil impulse that doesn't require excessive effort to recover from. That's a tall order for a 7.62 NATO lightweight blaster without using a muzzle break, and breaks make touching the gun off inside a house pretty horrendous when it comes to hearing damage, especially for your buddies.

The H&K MR762A1 is a bit heavy for my tastes, as is the LMT MWS. The Ruger SR-762 has the crazy gas block mass of the SR-556, and is horribly imbalanced as such when I have handled them.

I'll defer to those with actual experience with the other guns.

If I were in your position, I would re-consider DI since external op-rod mechanisms add more forward weight to an already heavy gun with the 7.62 NATO blasters, but the SCAR will give you excellent balance and lightweight, with better than decent accuracy for a piston gun. You can actually maneuver well inside the house with one, but then shoot from positions with it at distance, whereas the other guns are difficult to shoot positions with.

+2 for the DPMS GII. It really impressed me with what they have done with that gun. I will own one soon.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I've used all the legacy battle rifles overseas, as well as some of their predecessors, in addition to the current generation of 7.62 NATO self-loaders. I consider those to be divided between SASS and utilitarian carbines. Here are two that I have more experience with, although the LMT is DI.

* LMT 7.62 MWS
* H&K MR762A1

The only one that really covers the weight and profile you are looking for I think is the SCAR-17, while accuracy will be ~1 MOA and more on many of them, which is more than you need for DM.

I've had a lot of these guns come through my DM courses, and I'm the type of guy that leans towards as lightweight of a system as possible, with a smooth recoil impulse that doesn't require excessive effort to recover from. That's a tall order for a 7.62 NATO lightweight blaster without using a muzzle break, and breaks make touching the gun off inside a house pretty horrendous when it comes to hearing damage, especially for your buddies.

The H&K MR762A1 is a bit heavy for my tastes, as is the LMT MWS. The Ruger SR-762 has the crazy gas block mass of the SR-556, and is horribly imbalanced as such when I have handled them.

I'll defer to those with actual experience with the other guns.

If I were in your position, I would re-consider DI since external op-rod mechanisms add more forward weight to an already heavy gun with the 7.62 NATO blasters, but the SCAR will give you excellent balance and lightweight, with better than decent accuracy for a piston gun. You can actually maneuver well inside the house with one, but then shoot from positions with it at distance, whereas the other guns are difficult to shoot positions with.

+2 for the DPMS GII. It really impressed me with what they have done with that gun. I will own one soon.

What length barrel was on the LMT you handled? Do you know how much the British LMT Sharpshooter weighs with its 14.5" barrel?

 

[Guest]

I really like my POF P308 14.5" with pinned brake. With Leupold Mark4, NF Ti rings, UBR stock, and Atlas the gun weighs just under 13#. Recoil is extremely light making follow up shots really easy. The gun is a tack driver shooting sub moa consistently. Best 5 shot group with FGMM is 0.53" @ 100yds. Fit and finish is really nice and the few times I dealt with POF they were great. Even sent me a buffer and recoil spring when I inquired as to what I needed to install my UBR.

Only other 7.62 battle rifle I could see myself owning would by the SCAR17 but I have no plans to sell my POF, its a keeper.

 

[awiner]

I own both a SCAR 17 as well as a SIG716. Both great rifles with different attributes.

The SCAR is light the SIG is a bit heavier. Both shoot great, are accurate and reliable.

 

[WindDoper]

only one choice, black rain.

 

[LRRPF52]

What length barrel was on the LMT you handled? Do you know how much the British LMT Sharpshooter weighs with its 14.5" barrel?

I've handled all the variants at LMT's booth at SHOT over the years, and I like the slickside handguard MWS better than the original. The LMT's that I commonly see are equipped with the 16" barrel in 7.62 NATO. The BCG, barrel profile, receiver set, and handguard combine to make a heavy little pig of a gun. It's great to shoot prone bipod and rear bag supported, not so much from positions unless you are Lou Ferrigno.

 

[deersniper]

You need to handle a Scar 17 before you make a decision.

 

[binnerscot]

I have only handled the SCAR and an 18" LWRC REPR (I own a DI at the moment). While I know the SCAR is very popular, I didn't like the ergonomics of it and hated the stock. The LWRC felt very familiar with the AR ergos and the fit an finish was excellent (love the side charger). The 18" had some heft to it, I think that one is a medium contour...definitely not a run and gun configuration.

Of the two, I would buy the REPR...I didn't because when I went back for it, it was gone. Many months late I happened upon a CMMG MK3 CBR and bought it on a whim (for fear of it being gone the next time I stopped in) and have no complaints.

 

[Edsel]

I'm happy with my 16" SIG 716.

It's good enough for me with my BFACOG; not spectacular, but good enough for a novice shooter such as myself.

Cheapo CBC NATO ammunition at 100m to the right, 10 rounds. Federal's Premium Gold Medal Ammunition .308 Winchester, 175 grain, Sierra® MatchKing BTHP at 100m in the middle, 20 rounds. More of Federal's Premium Gold Medal Ammunition .308 Winchester, 175 grain, Sierra® MatchKing BTHP, this time out to 200m, 20 rounds.

 

[USACS]

My main focus for this thread is piston operation, not DI. I've already done research on the DI side of this equation, and the two that are being considered are the KAC SR-25 and LMT LM8MWS. I'm familiar with JP and have heard good things, but they just don't interest me. The GAP-10 does and is on my radar, but I tend to gravitate towards "mil proven" stuff. I certainly couldn't discount GAP though. I know they're top notch. The OBR and PredatOBR have been on my radar, but since LaRue got rid of their LE discount, I really don't see a reason to go that route anymore. I hate to have this sound snotty, but if they don't offer me LE pricing, I have no desire to do business with them. Plenty of other companies do. In fact, several companies like KAC and POF have exceptional LE pricing.

Being from Minnesota, I'm very familiar with DP MS. And not in a good way. I know that their LR-308 platform is more reliable than their AR15 line. However, I have enough personal history and experience with DP MS's poor QC and customer service as an armorer to never ever give them any money or consideration. There is a long list of LE agencies in our state that have been on the receiving end of DP MS's poor QC.

I'm trying to develop some sense of where to go with the piston side of the equation.

The long and short of it is that the rifle needs to be MOA or better accurate for sniper use, but still needs to be maneuverable for CQB and carbine training courses. Primary use is within the street patrol function, with SWAT callout capability straight from the car. Primary optic is slated to be a Trijicon VCOG, with a precision optic option later on. I want it to have the ability to work in a patrol/DMR function now, but have sniper accuracy capability if things shift that way. We have one of our snipers retiring soon, and I'm gunning for the slot. I would like to run a semi-auto in that role if I were to get it (nobody else wants sniper allegedly), which is why I want the higher precision.

Weight is somewhat of a consideration, but it's not the end of the world. I'm not hoofing it through the Hindu Kush with this thing. I also spend a considerable amount of personal time in a gym picking weights up and putting them back down, so I'm far less "weight sensitive" with rifles than most people.

I have seriously considered the SCAR-17, but I've heard of it killing certain optics. I'm still trying to nail down which ones. The other issue is that I don't like the standard SCAR-17 configuration. I'd have to get the PWS front rail extension, Geissele trigger, TangoDown grip, VLTOR carbine stock tube attachment and likely a B5 systems SOPMOD stock with Battleline SAPR. That's about $1k right there in add-ons. Not the most ideal financially. I have handled a SCAR-17 (never shot it though), and it was actually not too bad in my hands. If I had it "as is", I would be fine with it for just personal or patrol only use. I'm just not sure about the accuracy vs what I would get from say, a POF P308, which seems to get consistent positive reviews for being very accurate.

Money is obviously an issue, and I'd like to not spend an arm and a leg. I don't want to cheap out either, as I'm willing to pay for quality.

What I'm looking for is experience, observations on quality or accuracy, opinions, etc.

 

[Edsel]

Sorry, don't have any experience with "running my weapons hard" or anything like that.

They're all range toys, never even considered for personal defense, and the most I do is punch holes in paper.

I have no intention of growing a tactical beard

 

[USACS]

I tried to grow a tactical beard. I looked like a rapist. Wife made me shave it off.

 

[Edsel]

 

[Glock45]

Edsel - that video was HILARIOUS!!! Thanks for sharing!!

-G45

 

[houndog]

I recently purchased a POF 308 and have been very happy with it. Zero issues with reliability (at least so far) and as others have said it is a sub MOA gun with match ammo. Build quality is very good and parts are top quality. Out of the box trigger is also very good. The gun is a little front heavy, but that's typical for most piston systems. Also, I have a 14.5" barrel with attached muzzle brake and it is LOUD.

You might also take a look at PWS and LWRC. I have a PWS upper in .223 that I have been very happy with. I know they make a .308 version, but have never shot it. LWRC does have a good reputation, but I have no personal experience with one.

 

[Gildoom]

My two favorite 308 rifles are the Sig 716 and the LMT MWS 308. The Sig I have a post up where I took quite a few pics and talked about it's function. It eats quite literally everything, granted I don't do south african surplus ammo or stuff made in turkey, but all the stuff you see in the stores, runs like a champ. Privi, Winchester, Rem, Federal, Hornady, etc., 147, 150, 168, 175. All of it runs quite well. I have to date had one jam due to over insertion of the Pmag, the new Pmags don't do this. It is a real fun gun to shoot, the trigger is nothing to brag about, it's really that full on mil-spec feel.

With the amount of money you can save on this rifle compared to others, you can buy a trigger, scope and muzzle device, shoot you even have a enough money for a couple boxes of ammo. Some folks really go full on snob at this rifle, which is fine, it makes them cheaper and people go all nuts. I clean it, but I am not religious about it. I run a Vortex Battery Destroyer err I mean Vortex Dot on it, works fine but the on/off button is so easy to accidentally turn on. Sometimes I run the Vortex PST 1-4 on it, which is just a fantastic scope for this rifle. I just wish the rail was smooth since I don't run lasers and the such so it is over kill for my needs.

The sights the Sig comes with are pretty nice too, I'd guess they are Diamond but I don't know for sure. The sling it comes with I steal and put on my other AR's when I go out shooting.

 

[Jumper]

PWS MK216 mod1. I have the Mod 0. The Mod1 has a free float barrel and adjustable gas. My rifle is very light, but recoils ver mildly thanks to the FSC30 muzzle brake. It takes P mags which i dont think the SCAR 17 does(?). Mine has been very accurate and reliable. And i understand the Mod 1 is even better.

 

[bschnzl]

+1 on the tactical beard!

I have had my P308 20" out six times now. It is one smooth .308. Recoil is very light and target reacquistion is instantaeous. I can certainly blow through $100 of ammo in a minute. It is set up for long range (600+, to slow my roll), and I am about ready to push it (me) there. I really believe it is a rifle that I can grow into.

I got the American Defense 20 MOA mount, and it does not hold zero between removals. It does between ranges (500+ miles). Shoulda stretched for the Bobro. I can see humping it through the woods, but I enjoyed carrying the M60 too.

That's not your vector tho'. The gun is too long for rapid vehicle egress. It is a challenge to hold steady off hand, or even sitting. It has a bipod, which I would definitely lose for CQB, along with some barrel length.

padom's accuracy report may put the 14" in your league. How many 500 yard shots are you gonna have to take? Then again, the brake is a beast. If you miss, the report will get everyones attention!
*
Ballistic Fireballs in HD - YouTube

I haven't shot any other "modern" semi .308s, but I do have a buddy with a .308 garand. I have a LWRC M6, that is "officially" the wife's. When my son and daughter-in-law got behind it, they let my 7 year old granddaughter shoot it. She hit the target from a bench at 50m. How that translates to the REPR is for someone else to say.

My son-in-law has seen the GAP-10 in the sandbox. He's heard good things. The GAP-10 is essentially a DI version of the POF (Hogan Receivers), with custom barrels.

HTH

 

[Cobracutter]

Your asking for the impossible...... you need to re-evaluate what you want, and what features you desire the most. You can't have it all..... otherwise we all would be running the same rigs.

With that being said, when it comes to "battle rifles", the Scar17 has no equals. You are saying you need this and need that........you havent even shot the rifles yet....... You really need to reel in your expectections, get behind these guns... and give them a drive.

 

[USACS]

Realistically, I understand that I'm not going to get a rifle that is 100% in every category. That said it's most certainly possible to get a 16" rifle to shoot sub-MOA, and a 16" rifle can function fine in room clearing and patrol use. Obviously there's going to be trade-offs though.
I'm just pitching for feedback on systems and how people view them.

 

[bk308]

I personally own a P308 and it is a fantastic rifle and a great shooter, but like previously said it is a bit heavy. I do have to say POF's customer service is incredible, my gas block loosened up and they replaced the whole piston system to their newest design. Now that I've got it back I can't wait to get it rezeroed.

 

[jfields]

My 16" REPR is light, Piston Operated, shoots ~MOA with FGMM 168 & Black Hills 175, has great ergonomics (side charger is nice) and has been utterly reliable. I shoot it suppressed, so the adjustable gas block is a welcome addition. I have had two other 308 ARs. A 16 inch Armalight AR10 and an Armalight Super SASS. I think the recoil impulse is going to better on a gas impinged gun, but you get used to the REPR. I shot a couple 3-gun comps with it and double taps and 40 yards were not hard with a little practice.

If I were looking for the most accurate, big frame AR, I would have a GAP or possibly a LaRue, but the REPR has been plenty accurate for hits on steel and game out to 800 yards, and I almost never clean it.

I have had this gun for almost 4 years and it has approx 3,000 rounds on it.

Just my .02

-J

 

[USACS]

Does GAP have an LE discount? If so, what is it? (obviously feel free to PM if it's not public info)

 

[deersniper]

Does GAP have an LE discount? If so, what is it? (obviously feel free to PM if it's not public info)

Why are you so opposed to paying full price like everyone else?

You sound like a prick.

 

[JAGERSPEAR]

I went with the Scar, and let's say the rest of my gear is getting pretty dusty. Topped with a F1 it is a laser beam. Without a doubt, the most fun rifle I have ever shot.

 

[USACS]

Why are you so opposed to paying full price like everyone else?

You sound like a prick.

Thank you. I try...

I look for discounts wherever they exist. I do it for the same reason that a lot of people do. A lot of people elect to buy online vs their local gun shop because they don't feel like paying MSRP, taxes and whatnot. If I can save as much money as possible, I can buy/get more for my money.

That being said, many companies offer LE/MIL discounts. Not everyone is paying full price. If the incentive is there, why not take advantage of it and save 10%, 15% or more? I'm not demanding that they do, I'm just taking advantage of what is already being offered. For some companies and products, that adds up to a lot of saved money.

It's different for each company, but I have talked to other companies that offer the LE/MIL discounts, and they do so because they want to get their weapons in the hands of the professionals. It's good marketing. Some just do it because they want to, others may do it for marketing. Whatever the reason, it exists.

 

[LtDan]

They do. Email them from your dept. email with exactly what you are looking for, they will provide a quote and show the LE discount.

 

[Cobracutter]

Your putting the horse a bit before the cart with all this sniper talk. IF and WHEN that happens..... worry about it then.. Your posts reek of inexperience, ignorance and urban myths.

Not trying to be hard on you, just giving you the reality of what most people are thinking (and why many aren't responding to you).

The thought of a novice cop who a department would throw into a sniper section with a Semi..... makes me want to stay 100 miles from whatever jurisdiction you are in bud...... Slow it down.

 

[Cobracutter]

My thoughts are that if you want to stay with a semi in .308.... go with the SCAR.... it really is a rennisance man.. do everything very good with features you will not find in any other gun in its class (light weight, lowest recoil, adjustable gas block,ect) They are also notoriously underrated in the accuracy dept.....most will shoot under 1moa and some will ring .5MOA with the right ammo/shooter. Not bad for a thinner, CL barrel. FN makes some kick ass barrels and knows a little something about proper chroming (SPR)

If you want to shoot LR, and have to go semi, Look into something like a GAP10 or JP07....

I am not a huge fan of the LMT for what it brings to the table. It is a HEAVY pig, even the LM8. For the same money or even less, you can have a GAP built.... with a bartlein. If the LMT was $1000 less, then It might be a better value. At $2800 for the CL and $33-3500 for the Cut Rifled, you are getting into GAP/JP/KAC land, and would still need a new barrel if you want to run 6.5/.260 or other better performing round. .308 will work out to 600-800 and even past 1K, but its really not the best round for the job, especialy when quality 120/140 6.5CM ammo can be had cheaper than quality factory 175GR .308 ammo.



I agree with you about the HK91/M14... while they are better than nothing, they are poor choices considering modern alternitives.

One last edit: I would go with whatever the Dept does and may supply you ammo wise. Being able to shoot free dept ammo will be a huge benefit to your training and refinement of the craft.

 

[MJ1]

Never a dull moment here.

 

[cjlane]

I had a PWS MK216 mod 1 for a while and it was a pretty awesome gun and I think it meets pretty much all the requirements you asked for.

 

[USACS]

I had a PWS MK216 mod 1 for a while and it was a pretty awesome gun and I think it meets pretty much all the requirements you asked for.

What was the accuracy like? Pretty reliable rifle?

 

[elfster1234]

id say if your PISTON operation ONLY, then your best option would be a scar17

 

[cjlane]

What was the accuracy like? Pretty reliable rifle?

Mine was easily sub MOA with match ammo. I haver had a single malfunction or issue with it. The SCAR is obviously lighter but I think the PWS brings a lot to the table. I looked at both when I was buying the PWS, but decided that since I wasnt going to be in and out of vehicles shooting (the only real point of a folding stock) the PWS could do everything the SCAR could for less money. And the reciprocating charging handle is silly.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[samnev]

Why are you so opposed to paying full price like everyone else?

You sound like a prick.

Why do you feel the need to chastise the OP. For the service they perform IMO they are not paid enough and should take advantage of any discount available to them. You just lower your self calling a LEO a prick.

 

[CK_32]

REPR/SCAR/POF in that order.

At least from the testimonials and feed back I've seen that's my analysis on how they stack in my book. Splitting hairs tho.

 

[greyghost01]

Sig for me, My LGS has a heck of a deal on a scar 17 but its just not my cup of tea. The SIG is heavy but all 308 AR platforms are. Good Luck

 

[Nik H]

To OP,

I own an HK417 which is similar but not identical to the MR762. I think it is a great rifle system but I am a little biased towards H&Ks. Wasn't a fan of the stock trigger system and have since replaced it with a Geissele pack. You mentioned that you were on a budget. The HK417 is not a budget rifle unless there is an LEO/Military discount which we civilians don't get.

I have also fired a friend's Black Rain Ordinance rifle on 3 occasions but can't remember which model it was specifically. It was quite an easy and controllable weapon as well and was impressed with the quality. I also believe it is a bit cheaper than the H&K. Although you ruled out M1A type, there are ways to modernize that as well. I have an M1A super match that I have owned since 1988 and recently switched over to the J. Allen JAE-100 stock and I would put this up against any "modern" design in terms of functionality and accuracy…that being said, I am not the shooter you all are having just moved from CA after 14 years where few if any of my rifles could see the light of day.

Best regards and good luck

 

[Desert_Racer]

I am admittedly another SCAR17 fan boy. As cobracutter mentioned above, it is very light and very accurate, especially given that it has a very light barrel contour. I have shot mine out to 500 yards so far and have had repeatable results every time I've taken it out: boringly accurate, even after heating the barrel up. Couple this rifle with a good mid-power variable optic and you have a very versatile weapon platform. Its even better after throwing a Handle SCAR-25 lower and a Geissele Super Scar in it.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

+1 on the tactical beard!

I have had my P308 20" out six times now. It is one smooth .308. Recoil is very light and target reacquistion is instantaeous. I can certainly blow through $100 of ammo in a minute. It is set up for long range (600+, to slow my roll), and I am about ready to push it (me) there. I really believe it is a rifle that I can grow into.

I got the American Defense 20 MOA mount, and it does not hold zero between removals. It does between ranges (500+ miles). Shoulda stretched for the Bobro. I can see humping it through the woods, but I enjoyed carrying the M60 too.

That's not your vector tho'. The gun is too long for rapid vehicle egress. It is a challenge to hold steady off hand, or even sitting. It has a bipod, which I would definitely lose for CQB, along with some barrel length.

padom's accuracy report may put the 14" in your league. How many 500 yard shots are you gonna have to take? Then again, the brake is a beast. If you miss, the report will get everyones attention!
*
Ballistic Fireballs in HD - YouTube

I haven't shot any other "modern" semi .308s, but I do have a buddy with a .308 garand. I have a LWRC M6, that is "officially" the wife's. When my son and daughter-in-law got behind it, they let my 7 year old granddaughter shoot it. She hit the target from a bench at 50m. How that translates to the REPR is for someone else to say.

My son-in-law has seen the GAP-10 in the sandbox. He's heard good things. The GAP-10 is essentially a DI version of the POF (Hogan Receivers), with custom barrels.

HTH

GAP-10 in the sandbox? I knew GAP made rifles for the FBI and other police agencies but I didnt know they were in the hands of our boys on the frontline??

Id hate to expose any state secrets or anything like that, so shoot me down if Im out of line for asking this, but what branch/unit is your son with? Or what branch/unit were the men with that were carrying the GAP-10s? Again, if theyre some type of SOCOM secret squirrels, shoot me down. But this is the first Ive heard of GAP-10s in military service. And AFAIK, personally owned/bought weapons are not allowed to be taken overseas. Correct me if Im wrong on that.

Thank you sir.
Blake.

 

[usmcmk12]

So that's how I can keep my beard from getting pinched in my CTR stock. The answer was so obvious this whole time.

 

[usmcmk12]

I saw some SEALS in a SOF magazine running SCARs so I would probably go with that rifle.

 

[bschnzl]

Here's what I can say:

When I showed him my new toy, he asked if it was a GAP-10. The sight ID is understandable. The receivers are from the same manufacturer. GAP is not shy about their processes. The barrels are the difference.

This is getting way beyond third party quotes, so I'll just leave it at that. From my own experience - DoD buys just about everything, if they can justify it for a mission. They have their own industry. But in the end, office buildings are filled with people, and people do the wierdest things. I am sure all the "t's" were crossed.

GAP-10 in the sandbox? I knew GAP made rifles for the FBI and other police agencies but I didnt know they were in the hands of our boys on the frontline??

Id hate to expose any state secrets or anything like that, so shoot me down if Im out of line for asking this, but what branch/unit is your son with? Or what branch/unit were the men with that were carrying the GAP-10s? Again, if theyre some type of SOCOM secret squirrels, shoot me down. But this is the first Ive heard of GAP-10s in military service. And AFAIK, personally owned/bought weapons are not allowed to be taken overseas. Correct me if Im wrong on that.

Thank you sir.
Blake.

 

[Cobracutter]

Here's what I can say:

When I showed him my new toy, he asked if it was a GAP-10. The sight ID is understandable. The receivers are from the same manufacturer. GAP is not shy about their processes. The barrels are the difference.

This is getting way beyond third party quotes, so I'll just leave it at that. From my own experience - DoD buys just about everything, if they can justify it for a mission. They have their own industry. But in the end, office buildings are filled with people, and people do the wierdest things. I am sure all the "t's" were crossed.

If anyone was using a GAP10 in the Box, it could have been a couple things. It could have been a personal upper on a SR25/MK11 lower. Some manufacures will even send free uppers and parts just so they can claim they are being used by xxx. It could also have been a small unit purchase for a specialized unit that wanted to give the gear a go. It is not a typical dod procurement(anything other than a GPC or a specialzied contracting authority) and is not common.

There are thousands upon thousands of special operations service members out there. Some units have more lattitude than others.... just because one or two guys are using a piece of a equipment, doesn't mean the military, the branch or even their unit nessisarily endorses it. There were a bunch of soldiers with NCSTAR's on top of their M16's when I was in Iraq, does that make it a viable optic?

At the same time, just because the military or a unit or a country use a weapon or weapon system, does not mean it is the best. All it means is it meets some bean counters arbitrariy performance minimums or it was written in such a way that forced them to select (or not select) certain canidates.