7.62x54R cheap shooter

[Greg Langelius *]

Just got gifted a 440rd sardine can full of 7.62x54R surplus ammo. Silvertip, copper washed Berdan cases; looks like the generic 'Czeck silvertip' 148gr light ball. Olive painted can, black writing, silver paint stripe as part of the desciption. Was partially opened previously, temporary resealed it myself with duck tape. I suspect it was snatched up in error, mistaken for x39 stuff knowing the provider.

Not parting with the ammo, period.

Wondering where to look and how much to pay for a minimalist rifle that shoots this stuff well enough to be worth having. BTW, is it just me, or does every surplus Mosin-Nagant I've ever tried all shoot 2ft to the left at 100yd?

Any ideas, folks?

Greg

 

[Macduff]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Mosin Nagant from Buds Gunshop will run you around 100$ and will be plenty fun in throwing lead downrange. If you look locally you might be able to find one cheaper, I've seen crates full for 70$

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

MacD;

Thanks, just checked them, in-stock for the 26" barreled version. $109 per. Looks good. Have a nearby gun show coming up in another week, will look around there, or do Bud's if nothing appeals.

Greg

 

[roggom]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Here are a couple of other places

http://www.aimsurplus.com/

http://www.classicfirearms.co/

Then go here http://www.gunauction.com/help/fflnetwork.cfm to find an ffl near you to do a transfer.

Also the MN were sighted during manufacture or refurb for approx 300m so they will shoot high at 100Y, there are tips and tricks on the net to raise your front sight post and bring the poi down.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> BTW, is it just me, or does every surplus Mosin-Nagant I've ever tried all shoot 2ft to the left at 100yd?</div></div>

That's an easy fix. The front sight slides back and forth to change your windage.

Most do shoot high. Various reasons for this but they do.

The problem is fixing the elevation problem while keeping them "as issued" and legal for the CMP GSM Vintage Military Rifle Matches.

You can't add after market sights but you can adjust for elevaton and keep them legal for CMP GSM Matches.

There is a slider on the rear sight to give you elevation changes. It slides on the base raising and lowering it.

Take the sight off, mill, grind, or file the bottom of the slider to get it to set lower on the base.

HOW much is the problem. Measure the sight radius, Divide the radius by 3600 (number of inches in 100 yards).

The results give you the amount you have to remove from the bottom of the sliding part of the front sight to move the impact 1 MOA.

Now you have a Mosin that will shoot 100 yards when the sight is set on the 100 marks, it will also work at 200, 300, 400, etc.

Keeping the rifle AS ISSUED.

Those suckers are shooters if you take the time to learn to shoot them.

At a CMP GSM match I put on last spring, the winner was a guy who bought the Mosin and some surplus ammo the night before the match. His first rounds was the 5 sighters used to start the match.

 

[Grizzdude]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Mosin FTW!

 

[Bonjourjr]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

If you want a smaller package that still shoots the 54R round, check out the M44. It is the carbine version of the 91/30. Also if you want some history or learn more about the different variations on it check this site out.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM.htm

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I bought two of my 91/30's from Buds and was very pleased with them. Both were re-arsenaled (as many are)- meaning they were gone through at the armory after the war, re-conditioned then packed away in cosmo for the next "big war"...

While often not as collectible, IMO these are the best way to go if you're looking for a shooter. I sporterized one of them into a long-range gun for steel at 600 with SMK handloads. Don't expect too much with the surplus ammo, with handloads one with a good bore can really shoot as mentioned above.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I much appreciate the additional info. My pref would be for the 91/30 vs the M44, and an M39 Finn would not displease me either.

Nice trick with lowering the slider; sounds neato, and is just my speed.

Greg

 

[Pthfndr-CA]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and an M39 Finn would not displease me either.</div></div>

Well, they aren't cheap, but look at the bottom of this listing. Finn M39 Mosins on antique receivers. They can ship straight to your door. No FFL needed. I've bought a few rifles over the years from these people. Never had a bad experience and all the rifles shot well.

http://www.gunsnammo.com/

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I had looked at them. I had opportunity to handload for and shoot one about ten years back. Working on tracking it down.

 

[Wolvenhaven]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

My suggestion would be to get a finn, they do cost about $200 more than a regular 91/30, but the finns did great work on the rifles, nicer trigger, smoother function, and I haven't heard of one yet which wasn't a shooter(taking into consideration that surplus 54R is about a 3-4MOA ammmo). The thing is, that ammo can was anywhere from $70-90, you're going to spend more on the rifle just to shoot it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Yes; I understand all that. But looking at the flip side, it's a great excuse to get another old war horse under my roof, too.

Greg

 

[JohnP123]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Between my son and i we have about 8 Nagants now they are a blast. i sporterized one and it does remarkably well. they are a blast to shoot and you cant hurt em.once you figure them out very accurate rifles and for the price you cant go wrong.
John

 

[MilsurpShooter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Regarding 2 feet to the left, buy a bayonet and throw it on there and see if it helps. (don't force it though, might have to fit and finish)

 

[S07]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Be careful, put a couple of old 91/30s in your closet and they start multiplying...

 

[samnev]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: S 07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Be careful, put a couple of old 91/30s in your closet and they start multiplying... </div></div>
Amen!!!!

But I would get a Fin M39 rather than a referb 9130. It may cost $200 more but they are worth every penny of it.

 

[355sigfan]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Several friends and I just got some Mosens. I was the unlucky one. While the others that have been shot so far group ok meaning 5 inches or so at 100 yards. Mine is minute of pizza box at 50 yards. Oh well at least it looks nice.

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

What do you guys clean your bore with to keep it from looking like a rusty sewer pipe? The surplus ammo seems really corrosive.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

If it's already pitted, there's obviously nothing you can do about it. If it's horrible, and the rifle's a lousy shooter because of it, use it as a wall hanger...

Read this, good info.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinCleaning.htm

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Thanks for the link. The ole Hoppes9 it is again, interesting how it was formulated for corrosive primers.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

OK, got my Mosin-Nagant. It is a 91/30 with Markings for 1943, TK, and a 4 digit serial number which is repeated on all detachable parts.

It came from Century Arms, designated as "Excellent" Grade and looks very little used, if at all. I'm really pleased with the rifle's overall visible condition. A complement of bits, mag pouches, etc., accompanied the rifle; along with a really neat pamphlet with history, tech info, a clear parts diagram, and disassembly/reassembly instructions/figures. The wood appears undamaged. My dealer charged me $119. I am also very impressed with the rather ingenious overall design of the rifle.

I removed all the cosmolene I could reach with soft cloths after a detail strip (except I refuse to play with the firing pin), and the bore/chamber has been dry patched until the patches come out clean.

The ammo has a copper washed steel case and maybe the bullet too, with a silver tip. The primer is brass colored and the cases have red sealer at the primer and case neck. The outer (bevelled) rim of the cases are marked with a raised 188 and 77. So far, the olive green ammo tin is opened, but all of the (440?) rounds are present.

I really don't know much about all this designation stuff, and am hoping to do some initial range evaluation Monday, assuming the weather forecast holds up. I think I'm in for some fun. If it shoots well, I may end up treasuring this one right up there with my Garand.

If anybody can provide me with background about just what it is that I have here, and/or any cautions and admonitions, I'd be grateful.

 

[Joop]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Greg,

Congrats on your new rifle!

Take the time to disassemble the bolt and clean it. Learn how to take it apart and put it back together, as well as how to use the bolt tool to set the firing pin to the proper protrusion. This should be a prerequisite before firing any "new" Mosin. You'll save yourself some possible trouble and, most importantly, possible safety issues, by doing this.

The ammo you describe is Russian light ball. It will have a steel core, so be sure that you're at a range that allows the use of such ammo and I personally wouldn't fire it at steel plates from close range. It's not "armor piercing" as some would have you believe, yet they cores will ricochet under the right circumstances.

Sounds like the rifle is a 1943 Izhevsk arsenal (does it have a small triangle with arrow under the date/serial and wreath with hammer/sickle above?). Probably the most common 91/30 made, but they can still be great shooters. My "every day" shooter is a '43 Izhevsk.

Enjoy!

John

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Yes, that triangle/arrow marking appears in several places on the various rifle parts.

Aside from the firing pin, the bolts was disassembled completely and cleaned thoroughly. I made certain not to disturb the original pin setting (the mark still lines up with the ones on the bolt knob.The pin is very/too easy to move by hand in its threads, but the pin end was flush, not protruding or recessed vs the bolt knob before and after.). I left it as is because I have no info regarding how the protrusion and multitool are used properly.

I'm not looking for a standout rifle. I want an implement that works at least to an average, representative standard, that I don't need to treat like a prime heirloom. If it ls a shooter, I'd like to shoot it a lot, like I do with my SKS.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

PS, OK, I looked up/learned from the 'Net (Googled 'nagant protrusion') about the tool/guage, the 75 and the 95 marks.

 

[303_enfield]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Go here to learn:
http://7.62x54r.net/

Good luck just buying one

 

[FinnCollector]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Finnish M27's, M28's, M28/30's or M39's will be the best shooting of any MN variant. There are plenty of good shooting M91 & M91/30 Czarist/Soviet rifles out there though. By far, the best M44's are the Polish.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Thank you both.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Yeah the Mosin is cheap, and there is cheap ammo out there, but what seems to be left out is THEY ARE A HECK OF A LOT OF FUN TO SHOOT.

And are pretty accurate, at least my Izhevsk is.

I put on a CMP GSM clinic/match last spring, the guy that won the match got his Mosin and some surplus ammo the night before, first time shooting it was at the match.

But mainly, they are just plain FUN.

 

[mcmillanman5]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The ammo has a copper washed steel case and maybe the bullet too, with a silver tip. The primer is brass colored and the cases have red sealer at the primer and case neck. The outer (bevelled) rim of the cases are marked with a raised 188 and 77. So far, the olive green ammo tin is opened, but all of the (440?) rounds are present.

I really don't know much about all this designation stuff, and am hoping to do some initial range evaluation Monday, assuming the weather forecast holds up. I think I'm in for some fun. If it shoots well, I may end up treasuring this one right up there with my Garand.

If anybody can provide me with background about just what it is that I have here, and/or any cautions and admonitions, I'd be grateful. </div></div>

The link posted above has an ammo identification guide shown here:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID.htm

If you scroll down you can see pretty much every type out there. It sounds like you have 188 (Klimov/Novosibirsk. Also the surplus ammo does vary country to country as far as quality and accuracy go. I see guys posting above saying not to expect much from surplus and expect 3-4moa. You guys should give the Hungarian light ball a try. I have fired a lot of this ammo and it has always grouped sub-moa in multiple rifles that are capable of that kind of accuracy. Basically this ammo is not going to hold you back.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Thank you very much for that link. I've bookmarked it and printed out the traj curve for the most similar load and rifle; very helpful.

Greg

 

[b0xcrash]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roggom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here are a couple of other places

http://www.classicfirearms.co/
</div></div>

Don't bother with these guys, they are slow and not sure they know what is going on. I have a C&R and I placed an order with them mid last week and everyday I call I keep getting the "It should ship out today" crap run around and they "had" them in stock when I ordered.......God only knows by now

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Ran 20 round through the rifle. Shoots about 2-3" right at 100yd, best I've seen yet for a Russian rifle. Setting sights for midmark between 2 and 3 and holding left lower corner of the 10" square gong at 250yd, hits are pretty consistent.

Cleaned on arrival home with Hoppe's; amaaingly dirty. After 4 soaks with Hoppe's, switched to bore foam, first two soaks, still very black, then blue. Still soaking.

Basic assessment, I'd feel comfortable shooting this rifle and ammo in a military bolt gun match. I'd feel much better if I had time first to readjust the front sight to dead-on; but this is definitely an effective SHTF rifle. I threw a limbsaver on, and it's relatively mild to shoot.

Fun, fun. fun...

Oh, and did I say..., fun...?

Greg

 

[FinnCollector]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Wait until you get a M39.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

In the fullness of time...

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Adjust the front sight or buy an adjustable Mojo rear sight. Once dialed in, they can shoot well. Here is my M44, 100 yards, silver tip ammo and iron sights.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I can see now why my Buddy says the M44 is the loudest rifle he knows.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Full circle.

While I bought the 91/30 on the excuse that I needed something to shoot some MilSurp ammo a friend gave me, I've decided to relegate that anchovy can to Zombie Fodder status, and get hold of some Prvi-Partizan Boxer primed stuff.

The MilSurp is just too damned dirty and it's corrosive to boot. Shoots good enough for Zombies, but I'd rather try handloading, and besides, the rifle's simply too nice to be subjecting it to that corrosive, filty ComBloc stuff. Sans handloading, I'm interested in what the Prvi-Partizan factory stuff will do on its own.

After shooting some $11+/box Prvi-Partizan 69gr Match in my AR, I am very favorably impressed with that PPU headstamp.

Greg

 

[JL]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FinnCollector</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finnish M27's, M28's, M28/30's or M39's will be the best shooting of any MN variant. There are plenty of good shooting M91 & M91/30 Czarist/Soviet rifles out there though. By far, the best M44's are the Polish. </div></div>

2nd that.

IMO M28-30 Finn is the best Mosin ever.
It already has M39 sights, but barrels are tighter 308 cal and trigger is better.
Those were basically civil guard's competition rifles before WWII, and it shows.
With proper ammo (Lapua D46 or D166), it still shoots well- better that most would believe.

 

[btrapr]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Easiest fix on shooting high is to take a piece of electrical shrink wrap (Black) slide it on the front post and heat it up! GO to the range and slowly trim it down until you hit a zero!

CHECK Youtube for trigger jobs...lots of info on there___I have gotten mine down to 3# and eliminated trigger creep with a spring in the trigger pin that forces the trigger rearward! thus no creap...

You can also take a piece of cork gasket material and place it under the barrel out front so that when you slide the front barrle band on you LOCK the barrel out front! The only other way to tweak it is to chalk up the entire barrel shoot it and see where it strikes the stock___then free float it___

The best way to pick one is to take abullet with you..slide it into the bore muzzle end...see how far down it slides in SORT of a poor man's bore gauge!

I have several of them and I have some some real shooters!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Rifle groups well, just a bit (about 1/2 a sight blade's width) to right of center. Vertical is just about perfect.

Could use some advice about how to drift the font sight.

I like the trigger just the way it is.

The soft pressure pad makes sense. I have pressure sensitive adhesive backed firm neoprene foam material in 2mm, 3mm, and 5mm thicknesses. I'll be trying it as per your advice.

Good advice about the ad hoc bore guage. Will be trying that if/when I buy another.

Thanks for the tips.

Greg

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

These aren't exactly the cheapest to shoot, but regarding the ammo, I loved my Romanian PSL. Come with PSO scope, etc. Like the above photo, the x54 can make a nice fireball.

It would easily pop jugs of frozen water at 300 to 400y first shot.

Might want to read up on how to clean corrosive ammo though if you start buying different types of spam cans.

 

[longguntoter]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got gifted a 440rd sardine can full of 7.62x54R surplus ammo. Silvertip, copper washed Berdan cases; looks like the generic 'Czeck silvertip' 148gr light ball. Olive painted can, black writing, silver paint stripe as part of the desciption. Was partially opened previously, temporary resealed it myself with duck tape. I suspect it was snatched up in error, mistaken for x39 stuff knowing the provider.

Not parting with the ammo, period.

Wondering where to look and how much to pay for a minimalist rifle that shoots this stuff well enough to be worth having. BTW, is it just me, or does every surplus Mosin-Nagant I've ever tried all shoot 2ft to the left at 100yd?

Any ideas, folks?

Greg </div></div>I paid 117.00$ + tax for mine. It is a M91/30 with a laminated stock, and the bore is around 85%. I can hold, off the bench, about 2.5" groups @ 100 yards. I usually shoot 174 grain ball made by Brown Bear. I need to get another one asap. They won't win at Camp Perry, but for a good all-around rifle that is bank vault tough, you can't beat them.

 

[Pat M]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Don't bother with the cheap scout scope base, i ended up tapping the receiver an doing my own bent bolt setup.

I have a scout scope base, may need tiny side screws rethreaded & add on screwed on bent bolt - FREE to anyone that wants them

 

[Shooter_308]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I absolutely love my 1944 Izzy M38. Shooting romanian "match" ammo for $25/60 rds is fine by me. Makes a sweet-ass fireball too! Super reliable, cheap to shoot and just damn fun. Always leaves a smile on people's faces.

Always one of those range guns that turns heads and make people re-evaluate their meaning of "recoil" after shooting .223's all day.

after stripping off the cosmoline/laquer/olgas toenails, re-staining and sealing it. Love it!

 

[InfiniteGrim]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Mosins are one of my favorites. Some of the cheapest fun you can have besides 22lr.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I added a (small) Limbsaver Slip-On to mine. Recoil is not my friend, and being tall; the additional LOP is also welcome.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

OK, just acquired a set of RCBS F/L dies, 3 boxes of Win 180gr ammo and another box/20 of PRVI 150gr SP ammo. I am looking for an accurate load for the 91/30 using 110 V-Max and IMR-4895. Anybody got one?

This baby will not likely be shot beyond 250yd, so I figure the 110 V-Max oughta be good enough. I have decided from the get-go not to play the .308, .310, .311, .312, .313 game. I have a .308 sizer ball, .308 bullets, and my Sierra manual never even mentions anything besides .308 bullets. If I'm giving something up, so be it.

I also have 125gr Pro-Hunters, and 155gr Palmas to consider.

Greg

 

[MrBigg282]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

I run a .311 sierra matchking with 42.5 gr of ramshot tac seems to be ok so far but i havn't taken it out to any real distance yet

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7.62x54R cheap shooter

Wow, that's it?

The Sierra manual shows velocities and accurate loads with various .308 diameter bullet weights, but the test rifle is an M44, and I'm kind of apprehensive about how accurate those loads would be with the 91/30. The loads I'm considering in PPU Boxer Brass are:

110gr/49.3gr IMR-4895
125gr/48.2gr IMR-4895
150&155gr/45.4gr IMR-4895

Has anybody tried these or loads like these with success in the 91/30?

Greg