Correct. I have a 26" 8 twist 7mmRM that I chuck 180 ELDMs with at over 3,000 FPS. I can do it with H1000 or RL26 without even stepping on it too hard.
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7 PRC is released. Any thoughts? especially on the action length?
- Thread starter flyingbrass
- Start date
Correct. I have a 26" 8 twist 7mmRM that I chuck 180 ELDMs with at over 3,000 FPS. I can do it with H1000 or RL26 without even stepping on it too hard.
Yeah... the thing is, Lapua nor Alpha are making 7LRM brass. So, if I have a choice with a lesser cartridge that can do more with better brass... I'll take that over a better cartridge, made lesser by trash brass. I grew old waiting for quality brass for the 7LRM and my 6.5LRM. I have one good batch of roughly 750 pieces. That's it.Once you give it a go, can you star a thread and compare it to the 7LRM?
I really think the 7LRM is a more balanced, better designed cartridge, but I could be wrong. (I doubt it)
My guess is that Lapua will be picking up the 7PRC. If they don't, maybe you guys can join me in bringing tents and just camping out in front of Alpha Munitions offices. We'll all just go stare in their windows every day until they agree to make it.
I belive that ADG makes the brass for gunwerks now, neither ADG nor Gunwerks would confirm, though Gunwerks did confirm that they source their brass from someone other than hornady
No, FuhQ said Gunwerks sold out to Hornady to make the 7LRM SAAMI Spec as the 7 PRC. Get it right. He's got a list of companies to hate on and this information doesn't jive with it.
Who cares what cartridges pre-existed. @orkan is right, btw.
We just got the following in one 7mm cartidge:
Lots of people going to love the 7 PRC.
We just got the following in one 7mm cartidge:
- Modern case with balanced capacity
- Fits in a common action length without issue(s) (love me some 7 SAUM but....)
- Big company support, thank you for the effort Hornady
- SAAMI approved = Excellent brass coming--simply based on track record of most cases Hornady has introduced lately, and PRC's are 2/2
Lots of people going to love the 7 PRC.
If you're going to talk shit about someone, at least have the balls to actually tag them instead of being a pussy about it so they wouldn't know.
Now, continue your circle-jerk.
How did you know that’s what I wanted to do! Definitely not trying to sit and compare this new cartridge to the retirement rounds in the ammo box..
I agree... Let it stand on its own merits... But the fact is, comparable rounds have existed for 60 years. And those older cartridges are not getting a fair shake being compared to these newer cartridges. At least not with the modern powders we have had the last 20 years to massively improve their performance and bring them into the 21st century, but those "retirement rounds" are still extremely viable when you compare apples to apples, and not 2022 technology to 1980's load data that books refuse to upgrade.Definitely not trying to sit and compare this new cartridge to the retirement rounds in the ammo box..
I also feel SAAMI is flawed, because they are still using CUP pressure capabilities from brass and barrels made during the old days, back when brass and steel alloy production was archaic and kind of sucked, and metallurgy was not-so-scientific. Most of these older cartridges need a HUGE update with modern powders, brass, and barrels, and that will put LOTS of things into perspective for newer and recent shooters/reloaders. When you have data that says a 26" 7mmRM should be pushing a 160-class bullet at ~2,900 FPS, you have some seriously outdated data points. That's about 200 FPS slower than it can safely push a 168 with modern brass, powders, and rifles.
Don't get me wrong, I use Hornady brass, bullets, and products. My beef is not just with their marketing, it's with a whole lot of things in the entire industry and the way it's been going the last 10+ years. It's become the new tech industry... "Oh, this cartridge is from 2 years ago... Throw it in the trash, it's not worth anything. What you need is THIS new cartridge that we just launched..."
The disposable society we live in, has made people's attention spans virtually nil, and people are so obsessed with having the newest, shiniest, "bestest" thing, and the old thing is now 100% useless in their eyes.
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I think the part that you and most other people miss, is that people still use rifles from the 50's, 60's and 70's, maybe older. Some of the rifles built back then weren't made for +60,000 psi loads or even +50,000 psi loads. Ammo manufactures or SAAMI can't update specs on factory ammo because they have no control over what rifle it will be shot in. That's why Hornady is brilliant, it's easier to come out with a new round that has the correct specs for modern rifles and bullets.I agree... Let it stand on its own merits... But the fact is, comparable rounds have existed for 60 years. And those older cartridges are not getting a fair shake being compared to these newer cartridges. At least not with the modern powders we have had the last 20 years to massively improve their performance and bring them into the 21st century, but those "retirement rounds" are still extremely viable when you compare apples to apples, and not 2022 technology to 1980's load data that books refuse to upgrade.
I also feel SAAMI is flawed, because they are still using CUP pressure capabilities from brass and barrels made during the old days, back when brass and steel alloy production was archaic and kind of sucked, and metallurgy was not-so-scientific. Most of these older cartridges need a HUGE update with modern powders, brass, and barrels, and that will put LOTS of things into perspective for newer and recent shooters/reloaders. When you have data that says a 26" 7mmRM should be pushing a 160-class bullet at ~2,900 FPS, you have some seriously outdated data points. That's about 200 FPS slower than it can safely push a 168 with modern brass, powders, and rifles.
Don't get me wrong, I use Hornady brass, bullets, and products. My beef is not just with their marketing, it's with a whole lot of things in the entire industry and the way it's been going the last 10+ years. It's become the new tech industry... "Oh, this cartridge is from 2 years ago... Throw it in the trash, it's not worth anything. What you need is THIS new cartridge that we just launched..."
I am just pleased at how well the 280AI performs when you compare its H2O capacity against the others.
WSM and SAUM are slightly dimensionally different at the base of the cartridge. I have both.
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Don't take my word for it. This is the first article that shows up when you search RSAUM development. I'm sure there are many others.
SAUM and WSM Comparison
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This should be required reading for everyone on this forum. It's a little outdated, but it covers the cases we're talking about. Hopefully this will end this back and forth bullshit.
Rifle Cartridge Family Tree
Backfire guy made up a 7 PRC with RCC brass. Looks like he tested 175 ELD and 195 EOL with H4831SC, H1000, and Magpro.
I bet she’d sing with some R26.
I bet she’d sing with some R26.
wow that was as bad as his first video...smh...Backfire guy made up a 7 PRC with RCC brass. Looks like he tested 175 ELD and 195 EOL with H4831SC, H1000, and Magpro.
I bet she’d sing with some R26.
his data charts blow
and we learned he doesn't even have good powders to try (RL26, N565/568/570)
Hornady has done a great job of doing a few things to make their cartridges very popular.
- they leveraged the goodwill developed from the success of the 6.5CM into the the PRC cartridges which are essentially belt less magnums.
- they market the cartridges very well
- because they don't make rifles, manufactures feel free to adopt their cartridges where a company like Ruger might not want to make a "Winchester/Browning" cartridge like the 6.8 Western.
- Their name isn't on the case freeing up other ammo companies to make cases and cartridges as well. I would bet money Federal, Remington and Winchester ammo makers would resist making 7mm Hornady ammo.
- all they have done is take proven and popular cartridges like the 300WM and now 7mm Magnum and (a) dropped the belt and (b) provided a case with similar performance but with the ability to use high bc bullets.
While people can quibble over a few FPS, the 7mm PRC was offered to replace the 7mm magnum in new gun sales.
Earlier this year, I started a 280AI hunting build because I didn't want to fuss with reloading a belted magnum.
While I won't replace the barrel just to gain a few fps, I could see changing to the PRC if I ever shoot out my barrel (unlikely).
If I was looking for a 7mm new rifle, I would definitely buy a gun with the new case once ammo/brass reached adequate capacity.
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Lots of people have powder access issues. I loaded my 6.5CM for hunting with Accurate 4350 for the simple reason I couldn't get H4350. Thankfully, I found 4 lbs of H4350 and the other powder is now almost gone.
I have not seen Reloader 26 on the store shelves since Covid hit.
Yes but they are different, look at a reamer print. I just ran a 300 WSM small base die over some SAUM brass - it didn’t even touch the base of the case…
I couldn’t care less what they are based on either way, I just don’t want people thinking the two cases are interchangeable…
I never said they were interchangeable, i said they were based on the same case. Which is still true. The 300 ultra Mag is based on the same case, doesn't make it interchangeable with a SAUM. Obviously all the cases we are talking about are longer, shorter, some have different shoulder angles, different neck lengths. When I say they are based on the same cases I'm mostly referring to the base and the rim. The ultra mags, SAUM's and the WSM's have a .550 to .555 base with a rebated rim to fit in standard .534 magnum bolt face. The PRC cases don't have the rebated rim. The rim and the base are both .534 give or take a thousandth.
Someone above thought that Hornady ripped off their case design for the 6.5 PRC from the 6.5 SAUM, they didn't because it's not even based on the same case. You could never form a 6.5 PRC case from a 7mm SAUM case. But you could form a 7mm SAUM from an ultra mag case or form a WSM case from an ultra mag.
Might be a good place to start. Is the 300 win mag a rip off of the 300 h&h? Is the 300 PRC a rip off of the 30 Newton? Is the 6mm ARC a rip off of the 6mm AR? Or is the 6mm AR a rip off of the 6mm PPC? You can go on for days. At some point it's all semantics. We only have a handful of "parent cases" so somewhere someone either ripped off someone else or they were inspired by someone else, it depends on your perspective.
Yes. And the reason we have so few parent cases is largely about the standardization of bolt and action sizes over time.
If someone wants to design a completely new case from scratch, it would mean getting gun makers to commit to make an awful lot of completely new parts.
Most "new" cartridges are so derivative of other cartridges because they purport solve a problem the original did not.
so you turned the belt off and then machined down the case head and recut extraction groove and then fire formed the body out?
The 7PRC makes a lot of sense for factory rifles and anywhere a balance is wanted. Guys looking for maximum velocity are looking at the 28 Nosler for factory rifles or 7-300 like you said. If you are building a custom rifle and shooting handloads its irrelevant as you can spec out whatever you want down to the specific bullet.
I think the 7PRC shines in factory rifles where you are limited by magazine length and twist rates that don't match what one wants to accomplish. Shorten the overall length, stretch the neck just a touch, get rid of the magnum belt, and make the COAL work for the magazine, get close-ish to the lands, with a 1:8 twist, and BOOM now you have an instant recipe for success over the counter. Exactly what Hornady did. All the performance without the downsides.
Also for F Class the 7PRC can make a lot of sense. Guys are already running long action so they can maximize the 284 case. Time will tell on the barrel life but just the ability to launch those heavier bullets a little faster should be a great advantage.
A few years ago I built a 6.5PRC on a Defiance long action. I wanted to shoot Berger 156's and after measuring out everything as good as I could, long action seemed the way to go. Boy, was I glad I did. No mag/seating issues or whatever with the long action and the extra .3lbs wasn't an issue and .6" bolt throw never noticed. Rifle is a hammer. Right now I am putting together a 7SAUM on an Impact long action. 6.5 class 156 bullets just not enough for some things and my 300 Norma at 90gns plus a shot is too much to burn into the dirt a lot of the time. Sometimes I take a grain of Retumbo out of the jug and look at it. Just look at it. Ahhh you're so sexy. Then I put it back in the jug. So 58gns of RL26 with a Berger 190 out of a 7mm is appealing to me, and I like the long action experience. I've been extremely disappointed before trying to jam ELR bullets into a short action. I can see the 7PRC being very popular as Hornady will market the living hell out of it, like all of their recent cartridges, it'll be on every TV show, every webpage, magazine, etc. All with stellar "expert" opinions lol. Like has been said, just rehashed hyped up slightly changed and rebranded more of the same that people have been doing for years. But the Big Red Machine knows how to sell! That being said I like their ELD-M bullets! Someday maybe we'll be able to buy as much powder as we want lol.
I'm thankful they do. They've brought quality brass companies to the table on some very well thought out cartridges. I can use those well thought out cartridges to make better thought out wildcats, and use the high quality brass as a stepping stone.
Life wouldn't be worth living without a 22 creedmoor and Alpha Munitions brass for it.
I'm going to hold out until they neck it up to 7.6 prc to go with the new 7.6 creedmoor that I keep hearing about. 
4831 is too fast for 180s in my buddys 7SAUM. He uses H1000 and that works well but you might be compressing. The 7PRC has a bit more capacity than the 7SAUM so that will surely help a bit.
4831 will work fine with the 162s which is also a very fine bullet inside of 600 yards. Then the 180s shines on a windy day.
I’m sure you can use 4831 with 180s but you’ll hit pressure sooner and the slower speed might make it less attractive than a really fast 162s.
3088-3100 with 68.5gr RL26 and Berger 180 Hunting VLD from Hart 26in barrel. I've shot a few Hornady 175 ELD-X through it and they were a little over 3100.
