7 saum

[350 Mag]

I checked my factory SAUM Rem brass and finished cases.

Both have .0035 runout.

I checked some Nosler 7mm rem mag I had on bench.

.001 runout on Berger 168.

Will I be able to straighten these necks with Lee Collett die(I ordered a custom one)?

I have source for ADG brass so definitely going to make a 500 round order soon.

How has ADG brass been for those using it?

 

[Steel head]

I think the lee collet will certainly help that Remington brass.

I’m too soon in its life to gauge the ADG brass but it definitely loads straight.

as a side note it’s incredibly easy to modify a 7-08 lee collet to 7 saum.

 

[Steel head]

Ummmmm,,,,,,,yea!
R26 is perfect for 7 saum.
No super stuffed cases to get speed and like R16 you get to use less to get more.

 

[Steel head]

I’ll try to post the rest of the ladder I did with R26 tonight but well under where I found pressure(which was 3005fps) 60.3 grains in ADG cases loaded at 2.94 with ELD-m 180’s got me 2935(28”barrel) with a SD of 4.

At distance that load hammered this weekend with excellent vertical and absolutely no powder crunching needed like H1000 or 7977.

 

[Steel head]

Adg brass
Eldm 180 @ 2.94
CCI#200
28” barrel.
Lots of jump to lands.
Barrel is at about 200 rounds now.
R26
59.5=2985 sd 12
59.9=2912 sd 11
60.3=2939 sd 4
60.7=2965 sd 8
61.1=2990 sd 15 just started to see ejector marks and bolt lift effort.

60.3 load was excellent at distance.

 

[Praeger]

Adg brass
Eldm 180 @ 2.94
CCI#200
28” barrel.
Lots of jump to lands.
Barrel is at about 200 rounds now.
R26
59.5=2985 sd 12
59.9=2912 sd 11
60.3=2939 sd 4
60.7=2965 sd 8
61.1=2990 sd 15 just started to see ejector marks and bolt lift effort.

60.3 load was excellent at distance.

Those are great numbers. I haven't been able to find any RL26 for my 7 SAUM build, so settled on RL23. Awaiting a new Terminus Zeus, everything else is ready.

 

[Joshf303]

Can someone give me a COAL with the 195 EOLs seated at the neck/shoulder junction?

 

[sstacllc]

Can someone give me a COAL with the 195 EOLs seated at the neck/shoulder junction?

I'm at 3.22"

 

[Praeger]

Those are great numbers. I haven't been able to find any RL26 for my 7 SAUM build, so settled on RL23. Awaiting a new Terminus Zeus, everything else is ready.

Finally got the action; assembled the rifle and was able to start some testing with RL23 yesterday.

7 SAUM SAAMI Reamer
30" Kreiger 1:8 Barrel
183 SMK
Reloder 23
ADG Brass
CCI BR-2 Primers
CBTO 2.278"

I couldn't find any published data so just 5 rounds to establish baselines. No pressure signs. At 60.0g of RL23, thought I felt a slight crunch when seating the bullet - powder at the body/shoulder junction. The barrel is new, so I expect it'll pick up some speed.

Powder Load	Velocity FPS
58.0g	2896
58.5g	2929
59.0g	2964
59.5g	2996
60.0g	3028

Follow up: Resized the brass, bumping the shoulder back .002" and loaded another series up. Paid close attention to 60.0g loads and no powder crunch. Probably close based on the powder fill column, but still a little space left.

 

[5RWill]

Was really hoping that 23 would be a viable substitute speed wise for RL26 rule of thumb being 6" shorter on my 7 SS though and already hitting pressure at 60.0 with RL26 makes me wonder. I might grab a pound anyway to try out.

 

[5RWill]

Searching out RL26 substitutes.

Has anyone tried any of these? N565 seems to be the closest thing to RL26 from what i can gather but damn if Vihtavuori's powders aren't expensive. Curious about 8133 now i saw a hide member say it had similar speed benefits in the 6.5 PRC as RL26.
8133
N565
N570

 

[Steel head]

Searching out RL26 substitutes.

Has anyone tried any of these? N565 seems to be the closest thing to RL26 from what i can gather but damn if Vihtavuori's powders aren't expensive. Curious about 8133 now i saw a hide member say it had similar speed benefits in the 6.5 PRC as RL26.
8133
N565
N570

The big benefit of R26 is it’s density and for lack of a better term horsepower per grain.

in a short action stuffing in enough H100/7977 behind a 180 has been problematic for me and R26 is my savior.

Remington brass does seem to be a lot roomier than my ADG brass so that’s certainly a factor.

In a long action H1000/7977 and probably retumbo and 8133 could be quite interesting.

I’ve heard VV powders are pretty dense so they might be another great option in short actions as well

 

[5RWill]

The big benefit of R26 is it’s density and for lack of a better term horsepower per grain.

in a short action stuffing in enough H100/7977 behind a 180 has been problematic for me and R26 is my savior.

Remington brass does seem to be a lot roomier than my ADG brass so that’s certainly a factor.

In a long action H1000/7977 and probably retumbo and 8133 could be quite interesting.

I’ve heard VV powders are pretty dense so they might be another great option in short actions as well

That's exactly my scenario with both my 7 SS and dad's 6.5 SAUM. Granted i've only tried RL26 with the 7 SS but the 6.5 SAUM was topping out at 2940ish with 140gr Elite Hunters. I moved to reloader 26 with 143gr ELD-X and even despite the longer bearing surface we're getting 3075fps out of a 23" barrel. And it's more of the same with my 7 SS 59.8Gr of RL26 is giving me 2900fps with a 24" tube and a 180gr ELD-M. Wonder if the thickness of the ADG brass is contributing to the my early pressure at 60.0 with the 7 SS.

Rich said N565 is very similar to RL26 but man it's kind of hard to find and $10/lb more than comparable powders. 8133 has me interested. I've still got five pounds but i'm hoping to snag an 8lb jug of RL26.

 

[Steel head]

And it's more of the same with my 7 SS 59.8Gr of RL26 is giving me 2900fps with a 24" tube and a 180gr ELD-M. Wonder if the thickness of the ADG brass is contributing to the my early pressure at 60.0 with the 7 SS.

I’ve been watching the 7SS thread and you’re load.
Personally I think you’re doing good at 2900 with that barrel length at that charge.



I’m at 2.95 with 60.3 of R26 going 2930 but with a 28” barrel in ADG brass and a good bit of of bullet jump.

I hit pressure at 2990 with R26.

I’m tempted to try the 180 hybrid and the 190 when it is released as word on the street is the bearing surface is less than the eldm’s plus I’m having bullets blow occasionally.

 

[5RWill]

I’ve been watching the 7SS thread and you’re load.
Personally I think you’re doing good at 2900 with that barrel length at that charge.

I’m at 2.95 with 60.3 of R26 going 2930 but with a 28” barrel in ADG brass and a good bit of of bullet jump.

I hit pressure at 2990 with R26.

I’m tempted to try the 180 hybrid and the 190 when it is released as word on the street is the bearing surface is less than the eldm’s plus I’m having bullets blow occasionally.

I agree. Especially when i found out that you were running a 28" tube at 2930. I saw some similar load data in this thread looking through loads. So it's doing very well. My goal was 2900~3000fps it's in it so i can't complain.

I thought about the 180gr hybrid but i just don't wanna give up the BC the ELD-M offers. I hadn't heard of the 190gr Hybrid is that coming soon?

 

[Steel head]

Yea
The 180 eldm is pretty awesome.
My buddy with the 338 Norma hates me because I easily run with him for less than half the cost.

190 was announced a while ago but I haven’t found any yet.

 

[5RWill]

Yea
The 180 eldm is pretty awesome.
My buddy with the 338 Norma hates me because I easily run with him for less than half the cost.

190 was announced a while ago but I haven’t found any yet.

Yup i ran the numbers next to a proposed 225gr ELD-M at the same speed for a 24" 300 PRC build i want and the 180gr ELD-M gives up little to nothing to it.

Powder Valley actually has them listed at least, but out of stock. I was under the impression some time ago Berger's prices were supposed to come down. They're still wanting premium for their bullets which are good don't get me wrong but they're no longer industry leaders in BC like they used to be. Might as well go A-Tip at that point.

Speaking of which Hornady is apparently announcing a 160gr and 190gr A-Tip

Rifle Bullets - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Even an average hunt can become a memory that will last forever with Hornady^® bullets.

www.hornady.com

 

[Steel head]

I saw the A tips as well.
I may have to pony up and try a box.

 

[5RWill]

I saw the A tips as well.
I may have to pony up and try a box.

Thinking the same. I haven't pushed past 1000yds yet and i bet that 166gr A-tip is approaching 180gr ELD-M numbers BC wise. If so i could probably launch it a good bit faster with the 7 SS. Or just go all out and try the 190

 

[Steel head]

Thinking the same. I haven't pushed past 1000yds yet and i bet that 166gr A-tip is approaching 180gr ELD-M numbers BC wise. If so i could probably launch it a good bit faster with the 7 SS. Or just go all out and try the 190

My findings is in my barrel advertised BC is a bit high.
To true up everything out to 1950 yards I’m running a custom BC curve.

funny thing is I just got notice of hybrid 190’s in stock at midway and ordered a box

they have blem 147‘s as well so I got some of those as well.
I've had really good luck with the blem 147’s

 

[Praeger]

Searching out RL26 substitutes.

Has anyone tried any of these? N565 seems to be the closest thing to RL26 from what i can gather but damn if Vihtavuori's powders aren't expensive. Curious about 8133 now i saw a hide member say it had similar speed benefits in the 6.5 PRC as RL26.
8133
N565
N570

What about Reloder 25? Lower fill density with it's longer grains, but Accurate Shooter listed it as the winning load for the 7 SAUM - 3050 fps out of a 30" barrel with 62g of RL25 over a Berger 180 VLD, ES of 7fps. Note that was before RL26 was released, but we're talking about a Plan B powder.

Maybe Retumbo. Hodgen lists a 66g load over a 175g Hornady in 7 SAUM getting 2863 out of a 24" barrel.

 

[Steel head]

190 hybrids shipped

Curious as to what speed I can get and actual BC.
Will post as soon as I find out.

 

[Watchale]

I'm new to shooting the 7 saum and will have mine in a couple of weeks. If temp stability is the main focus, is H4831sc my best bet to develop a load with 180 hybrids or 180 eldms in a short action?

 

[sstacllc]

I'm new to shooting the 7 saum and will have mine in a couple of weeks. If temp stability is the main focus, is H4831sc my best bet to develop a load with 180 hybrids or 180 eldms in a short action?

Ive found RE23 to more stable than H4831

 

[PowellSixO]

I'm new to shooting the 7 saum and will have mine in a couple of weeks. If temp stability is the main focus, is H4831sc my best bet to develop a load with 180 hybrids or 180 eldms in a short action?

I have very good luck with H4831sc and the 175 eldx. Very good es and sd numbers. Velocity is a little bit on the slow side, but the accuracy makes up for it.

 

[Steel head]

With a 28” barrel getting the hybrid 190’s to 2850 to 2900 is doable with R26 but I don’t think I’d have enough temp headroom to be legit at 90+ temps at 2900.
BC was approximately .377ish with 375, 775, 1050 and 1810 yard data points.

Accuracy was good with a .120 jump and a .020 jump.

 

[wind gypsy]

22” hells canyon barreled tikka throated long for 175/180 eld. 175s are just over 3.10” to touch lands if I recall correctly. I had very brief load work up to get it ready for last hunting season.

With 120ish rounds on the barrel, virgin adg brass, 64.1 grains h1000, 210m, 3.080” COAL, i was getting 2820 FPS and used that during hunting season on a dall sheep, wolf, and elk. I never hit heavy primer cratering, ejector marks on case head, or heavy bolt lift but figured it was getting up there in pressure.

Last weekend I tried to validate that load with once fired brass and immediately had heavy bolt lift, saw ejector circles on the case head, and clocked 2880 on the labradar. Time to back her down a bit and start over with fired brass and a fully broken in barrel.

During the initial load work up I did get more consistent velocities with h1000 than h4831..

On another note, in my 6.5 saum the ADG 6.5 SAUM brass took more powder to get the same speeds as my necked down Norma 7 SAUM brass so I didn’t figure ADG was giving any capacity up. The adg 6.5 saum brass necks measure thinner than the adg 7s though so maybe the 7 saum brass is thicker all around.

 

[GoldenFinger]

Are you guys finding the 180 ELD to be true to the .401 G7?? I know twist plays are roll. I'm running a 1-8.5" twist

 

[Steel head]

22” hells canyon barreled tikka throated long for 175/180 eld. 175s are just over 3.10” to touch lands if I recall correctly. I had very brief load work up to get it ready for last hunting season.

With 120ish rounds on the barrel, virgin adg brass, 64.1 grains h1000, 210m, 3.080” COAL, i was getting 2820 FPS and used that during hunting season on a dall sheep, wolf, and elk. I never hit heavy primer cratering, ejector marks on case head, or heavy bolt lift but figured it was getting up there in pressure.

Last weekend I tried to validate that load with once fired brass and immediately had heavy bolt lift, saw ejector circles on the case head, and clocked 2880 on the labradar. Time to back her down a bit and start over with fired brass and a fully broken in barrel.

During the initial load work up I did get more consistent velocities with h1000 than h4831..

On another note, in my 6.5 saum the ADG 6.5 SAUM brass took more powder to get the same speeds as my necked down Norma 7 SAUM brass so I didn’t figure ADG was giving any capacity up. The adg 6.5 saum brass necks measure thinner than the adg 7s though so maybe the 7 saum brass is thicker all around.

That’s common for fire formed brass to need less powder than new brass.
your initial speed jives with mine
I’m running a 28” and 100 FPS faster.

Are you guys finding the 180 ELD to be true to the .401 G7?? I know twist plays are roll. I'm running a 1-8.5" twist

I works for short range stuff.
If using a single BC you’ll probably be using a .360ish to low .370 to true up if you stretch it out.

 

[GoldenFinger]

Any of you guys been rocking the 184 hybrid yet?

 

[Steel head]

These Berger 168 hunters are perfect with a sammi chamber in a short action.
Even with 900 rounds worth of wear they jam at 2.884.

Going to load them fairly mildly with H4831SC.

 

[Steel head]

H4831SC is really a wonderful powder.
Every time I use it I get accuracy and SD’s.

168 Berger classic hunters.
Winchester primers(not my favorite) and ADG brass
2.861.
59.5=2903 sd 6
60= 2926 sd 5
60.5=2937 sd 5 10 shots.
Accuracy on all was excellent.

 

[TirednLost]

7 SAUM!! Definitely on my wish list. Crazy how this cartridge never gained the traction it deserved. I guess hats off to marketing schemes for things like a 28 nosler

 

[Steel head]

7 SAUM!! Definitely on my wish list. Crazy how this cartridge never gained the traction it deserved. I guess hats off to marketing schemes for things like a 28 nosler

It’s actually pretty popular in some shooting class of target shooting thankfully.

It’s just Another red headed step child of Remington like the beloved 260.

As a hunting cartridge I think it’s a fantastic option.
With a saami chamber with over 1000 rounds on it Berger 168 classic hunter jam at 2.88ish (I load these at 2.860 so true short action length) and with R26 2900 to 3000+ is a breeze and recoil is mild.
I got to 3030FPS with a 28” barrel and feel I’m still another 30-40 or more to go from pressure.

A shorter barrel is easily at 2850+

 

[Scopes]

@Steel head Did you do a workup on the 190 Bergers? Any data?

 

[Steel head]

@Steel head Did you do a workup on the 190 Bergers? Any data?

Adg brass
CCI#200
3.105 oal
28”barrel
60.3 of R26 got me 2930. That load probably wouldn’t fly at 80+ degrees.

I’m now in the 2880 range but can’t remember the charge off the top of my head.
A bit over 22 mils to 1930 yards with winter DA’s.

This is my first barrel with this cartridge and I’m fine burning it up to learn about 7SAUM and bullet and powder combinations.
Next barrel will be here mid week.

I suppose I’ll have to find some 190 a tips to try to see if the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[Scopes]

Awesome Thanks! At 3.105 oal how for from the lands are you? Do you know what the freebore is? Im trying to spec my next saum barrel.

 

[Steel head]

Awesome Thanks! At 3.105 oal how for from the lands are you? Do you know what the freebore is? Im trying to spec my next saum barrel.

About 20 thou but with over a 1000 rounds on the barrel

I might be a bit off on OAL as I don’t have my load book with me but it’s close.
jammed with 180 eldm’s was 3.045 when barrel was new.

I have the standard .090 freebore and It would definitely work with 180-190’s in a long action.

In a short action running those bullets in a magazine a .030-.040 freebore would be advisable if your scared of big jumps.
There’s a member here who has that reamer.

For 168 hunting bullets my chamber is perfect for a short action.

 

[Scopes]

Great info! How many firings do you have on your ADG brass?

 

[Steel head]

Great info! How many firings do you have on your ADG brass?

8 so far.

 

[BJames]

ADG brass
180 ELDM
RL-23 60.2gr
Fed GM215M
Cbto 2.207 (20 thou off)
Oal 2.937
2990 FPS

Rifle is a bighorn Origin, proof steel 8 twist 26”, McMillan a3-5 cf, saami reamer. Did a load work up side by side with RL26, better numbers and overall more accurate with RL23, in my rifle at least.

 

[Steel head]

185 RDF
28” barrel
60 grains of R26
ADG brass
Win LR primer.
3.035 OAL
2875 fps and SD and vertical are excellent.
Advertised G7 was almost spot on tested from 430 yard to 1930 yards yesterday and today.

This bullet will probably replace the 180 ELDM’s I was using.

 

[Steel head]

Just pulled my first barrel, was having to increase charge to keep speed up then suddenly lost 75-80 FPS.
Just over 1900 rounds through it.
Sad to see it die, it was a great barrel.
Got the new one plugged in and will take it out to play on Friday or Saturday.

 

[matchbook454]

H4831SC is really a wonderful powder.
Every time I use it I get accuracy and SD’s.

168 Berger classic hunters.
Winchester primers(not my favorite) and ADG brass
2.861.
59.5=2903 sd 6
60= 2926 sd 5
60.5=2937 sd 5 10 shots.
Accuracy on all was excellent.

What length barrel?

 

[Steel head]

What length barrel?

28”

 

[Steel head]

Started out the new barrel yesterday.
I’m running a mild load of N165 with the pop happy 180eldm and a couple 190 Berger’s
58 grains= 2670(180) and 2685(190)
Super mild recoil!
Lol

I have a box loaded up ramping from 58.5 to 60
I’m hoping I can get n165 to push the 190’s to 2850 easy like R26 did.

 

[BCX]

New barrel? Another 7 SAUM? Time to convert you to a LA and maybe a 7 MAXXXX.

 

[BCX]

7 SAUM 195 Berger loaded long.

 

[Steel head]

7 SAUM 195 Berger loaded long. View attachment 7372482

Sexy!

New barrel? Another 7 SAUM? Time to convert you to a LA and maybe a 7 MAXXXX.

Meh
I’m perfectly happy with the 7 saum performance.
When I get more horse power it will be with bigger bullets.

 

[dgheriani]

I see some guys are running magnum primers (215M, etc) but many running regular LR primers (210M, BR2, etc). Any ignition issues with non-magnum primers when it gets cold? I'll be starting off with H1000 and 180 ELDMs (prob go to Bergers after but have 300 of the Hornady on hand) and have tons of 210ms and BR2s, 1000 250s and maybe a few hundred 200s on hand as well as some 215Ms coming (for my 300 Norma). Is there a clear winner or really just any of them work fine?