8.6 Creedmoor - Any updates?

[Longshot85]

I'm not on social media ......

Any updates?

I'm curious to hear anyone who knows more than the average Joe outside the circle.

Thanks in advance. Funds are limited for me....I don't have an AR10 yet .....waiting for 8.6 Creedmoor to be released and supported to the public

 

[SD Carpenter]

What

 

[Longshot85]

What

I know Kevin is big on social media....updates....teasers....etc.....I am not on any of those platforms.......

I am asking if anyone has any new updates on when/if 8.6CM is finally gonna be available.

It's been stated that Hornady will make ammo and Q will be most likely first to make barrels/uppers but Kevin stated in an interview a while back he plans on releasing specs to public so any barrel company can crank them out.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about......8.6 CM is the big nasty brother to .300 Blackout....instead of 7.62 in a 5.56 case.....it's .338 in a 6.5CM case. A lot of work and testing is going into barrel twist rates.

 

[Longshot85]

And since we are talking 6.5cm parent case......then we are clearly talking AR10 with AR15's not part of the equation

 

[Coffee_and_Pipes]

Have you looked into 375 Raptor, or are you wanting to go with the 8.6 Creedmoor because you already have a .338 can?

 

[Longshot85]

Have you looked into 375 Raptor, or are you wanting to go with the 8.6 Creedmoor because you already have a .338 can?

I have but I want something more "off the shelf" with much more offered by more barrel makers, brass and ammo manufacturers etc

I build form 1 cans so being limited by a .338 can is not an issue.

 

[jphil108]

Why reinvent the wheel? Why not .338 Federal? If this is meant for subsonic work, The .308 case should be more than enough volume for even the heaviest subsonic rounds (both the creedmoor and Winchester cases are probably too big) and you’d have the same selection of bullets to choose from, speeds should be about the same for supers, off the shelf .338 Fed Ammo is available in supersonic varieties now and I think there are some boutique Shops selling subs. My opinion, but any 338/8.6 subsonic created right now is going to be limited by the fact that most of the current heavy .338 bullets ideal for sub work won’t expand at subsonic speeds. I think if Hornady/Q or whoever is doing this skunkworks project want this to take off they need to focus on some tailor made projectiles for both super and subsonic velocities that will work at modest supersonic speeds and subsonic.

 

[rlsmith1]

Looking forward to this as well.

To me, it almost seems like the 6.5G big brother if it can push the 230 ELD-X at a decent speed. JBM says the 230 ELD-X stays supersonic to just over 1,000 at 2k elevation with a MV of 2,200 fps. The only downside is obviously trajectory (13.4 mils to 1k vs. 12.1 mils for the 6.5G). Both these cartridges are within 0.5 mil to 750 yds. This comparison only gets better if the 8.6 can shoot the 230's faster. It can obviously shoot heavy subs as well.

The 375 Raptor seems much more like the AR10 version of the 300blk. Heavy subs for <100 yds and supersonic capability to 200-250 yds.

For comparison, I used the 6.5 Grendel shooting a 130gr Berger at 2400 fps. Everything at 2k elevation.

Would love to hear more thoughts / comparisons. Very curious how fast the 230's will be pushed with this cartridge. I'd love a 12.5" large frame that is as versatile as this cartridge seems. Maybe some companies will make some 338 bullets better suited for this cartridge? The 230 ELD-X seems like the best to me but if I'm missing something I'd love to hear it.

 

[Earnhardt]

How about the 358 Winchester?

 

[Longshot85]

Why reinvent the wheel? Why not .338 Federal? If this is meant for subsonic work, The .308 case should be more than enough volume for even the heaviest subsonic rounds (both the creedmoor and Winchester cases are probably too big) and you’d have the same selection of bullets to choose from, speeds should be about the same for supers, off the shelf .338 Fed Ammo is available in supersonic varieties now and I think there are some boutique Shops selling subs. My opinion, but any 338/8.6 subsonic created right now is going to be limited by the fact that most of the current heavy .338 bullets ideal for sub work won’t expand at subsonic speeds. I think if Hornady/Q or whoever is doing this skunkworks project want this to take off they need to focus on some tailor made projectiles for both super and subsonic velocities that will work at modest supersonic speeds and subsonic.

You are on the right trail......these are things Q and Hornady are working on

A big fork in the road I believe they are facing is with rolling with subsonic only as far as twist rates (super slow like 1:3) or going faster "up the middle of the road" to try to accommodate for some supersonic action .....but then not having optimum stabilization for big heavy subs

 

[Longshot85]

Looking forward to this as well.

To me, it almost seems like the 6.5G big brother if it can push the 230 ELD-X at a decent speed. JBM says the 230 ELD-X stays supersonic to just over 1,000 at 2k elevation with a MV of 2,200 fps. The only downside is obviously trajectory (13.4 mils to 1k vs. 12.1 mils for the 6.5G). Both these cartridges are within 0.5 mil to 750 yds. This comparison only gets better if the 8.6 can shoot the 230's faster. It can obviously shoot heavy subs as well.

The 375 Raptor seems much more like the AR10 version of the 300blk. Heavy subs for <100 yds and supersonic capability to 200-250 yds.

For comparison, I used the 6.5 Grendel shooting a 130gr Berger at 2400 fps. Everything at 2k elevation.

Would love to hear more thoughts / comparisons. Very curious how fast the 230's will be pushed with this cartridge. I'd love a 12.5" large frame that is as versatile as this cartridge seems. Maybe some companies will make some 338 bullets better suited for this cartridge? The 230 ELD-X seems like the best to me but if I'm missing something I'd love to hear it.

My thoughts exactly....and the "bigger" 8.6CM gets....the more effort other companies will put into developing heavies that expand at slower subsonic speed....Lehigh etc...

 

[Longshot85]

How about the 358 Winchester?

That is an option as well as .338 Federal......but the great thing about 8.6CM is sharing common brass with 6.5CM vs wildcating

 

[bunsen27]

Here is the most up to date info from Q released last week. It is now officially the 8.6 Blackout:

 

[Dogtown]

I'm not on social media ......

Well done - keep at it.

 

[jphil108]

I can see some of the argument for using a creedmoor case from being able to run at slightly higher pressures than the .338 Fed/.358 win cases but the creedmoor case already has less capacity and they will probably do something legally well advised like push the shoulder back .030 to keep bolts from chambering on a 6.5 creedmoor in an 8.6 chamber meaning even less capacity. any supersonic advantage gained from higher SAAMI pressure will be reduced a bit from a smaller case capacity, The shorter shoulder length would help a bit with seating longer bullets at mag length which will help on both the sub and super end of the spectrum. I bet this is a fun project for whoever is working on it; large frame AR/short action DBM mag length restrictions for OAL, low case capacity for typical bullet weights in that bore, long but slow bullets to stabilize at two different velocity thresholds, most customers probably won’t want a barrel much longer than 20”, that’s a lot of compromises to fit into one package. I hope out of the gate they focus on good subsonic expansion with heavy bullets, maybe that will help drive better expanding low velocity bullets in several different bore sizes. Slap either the creedmoor or Blackout name on it and call it a multipurpose round and it will probably sell.

 

[Earnhardt]

That is an option as well as .338 Federal......but the great thing about 8.6CM is sharing common brass with 6.5CM vs wildcating

Ya, I'm using necked up 308 brass for the 358

 

[craigos]

I'm not on social media ......

Any updates?

I'm curious to hear anyone who knows more than the average Joe outside the circle.

Thanks in advance. Funds are limited for me....I don't have an AR10 yet .....waiting for 8.6 Creedmoor to be released and supported to the public

COVID is slowing everything down. I suspect it will be next year. Based on Q threads, i think that is accurate. Q is focused on meeting production demand for current products, new product development pushed a little to the back seat.

 

[GBMaryland]

8.6 Blackout with Tungsten Carbide Depleted Uranium.... awesome

 

[Longshot85]

Here is the most up to date info from Q released last week. It is now officially the 8.6 Blackout:

Perfect! Thanks

 

[TheOE800]

So is the Kit Badger guy on payroll because I see lots of Q-related content from him/them.

 

[rlsmith1]

In one of his videos (a month ago?) he said he was "partnering" with them or something. I look at him as a spokesperson, not an unbiased 3rd party who just happens to get a sneak peek at Q stuff.

 

[ormandj]

I'm just blown away Hornady (or any large company) would work with Q/KB.

 

[TheOE800]

I'm just blown away Hornady (or any large company) would work with Q/KB.

Is KB out at Q? Thought I read something about that, but can’t locate it now.

 

[W54/XM-388]

8.6 Blackout with Tungsten Carbide Depleted Uranium.... awesome

I would say in practice it would be worse than useless.
Being that this is designed for a subsonic round, you need something that will actually open up nicely and do some damage to the game or pests you are targeting. A slow moving ice pick isn't going to be good for anything but expensive target shooting.

 

[Longshot85]

In one of his videos (a month ago?) he said he was "partnering" with them or something. I look at him as a spokesperson, not an unbiased 3rd party who just happens to get a sneak peek at Q stuff.

This is how it appears to me as well

 

[GBMaryland]

I would say in practice it would be worse than useless.
Being that this is designed for a subsonic round, you need something that will actually open up nicely and do some damage to the game or pests you are targeting. A slow moving ice pick isn't going to be good for anything but expensive target shooting.

Would go through body armor like a drill press under 50 Yards...

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Would go through body armor like a drill press under 50 Yards...

No it won't. Velocity defeats armor.

DU Penatrators in a M1 Abrams are there becuase they can handle the velocity (5500+ FPS) without deformation, self sharpen and are flamable. Almost all applications are in a Sabot to increase velocity.

 

[GBMaryland]

A rifle DU has a sharp point under the jacket... it’s like getting hit with a arrow.

I have, in the past, actually used themwith non-crew served weapons...

 

[ormandj]

Higher SD + higher velocity + harder projectile (no shedding energy in deformation) == penetration. A 6mm can be made to penetrate better than an 8.6mm as the force is concentrated in a smaller frontal area if unbounded by bullet length or constrained to AR15 cartridge sizes. The problem you run into is the amount of mass in the projectile before it becomes too long for cartridge, or you run out of powder room to get the velocity you're looking for. Subsonic cartridges aren't generally going to be best at penetration. I'd rather have AP high velocity, high SD rounds then big honking DU subsonics if armor penetration is my goal.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Maker bullets: 275 Grain .338 Spectre Expanding Subsonic Bullets (Box Qty - 50)!!!!! DO NOT USE THIS BULLET IN 8.6 BLACKOUT OR 1:3 TWIST BARRELS. CONTACT US FOR 8.6 INFO!!!!, Projectiles, 338275SUBREX

Just gonna leave this here.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

A rifle DU has a sharp point under the jacket... it’s like getting hit with a arrow.

I have, in the past, actually used themwith non-crew served weapons...

The point doesn't really matter because when it hits something hard it fractures, and self sharpens itself

Go shoot some body armor with an arrow....it won't do shit.

Velocity defeats armor over anything else.

 

[GBMaryland]

Mass... Unless you expect me to forget the time I saw a spear go through one, or the time we put a razor tipped arrow through a IIIa panel, etc.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Mass... Unless you expect me to forget the time I saw a spear go through one, or the time we put a razor tipped arrow through a IIIa panel, etc.

Wrong again but keep trying.

Lets take Energy. 1000 Ft/lbs or about there. Same material.

A 55gr .223 traveling at 3000 FPS is going to penetrate armor better than a 500GR bullet traveling at 1000 FPS. The same ammount of energy spread against a smaller surface area. I guess they don't teach physics in public school.

Oh a Razor tipped broad head cut through fabric Armor.....surprising.

Try it with a Lvl 3 Hard Plate and get back to me.

 

[GBMaryland]

The razor we tested at varying velocities with compound bows. Some of the panels did better than others. Later it was discovered that some of the panels were older and had been used / were at their end of life. The spear wasn't even a challenge. It was razor sharp, and weight in a several kilos. It did a good job slashing through the material to pass through at the sides. Almost always ended in a kidney hit.

[redacted]

 

[AMMOWASTER]

More info any day now

 

[rlsmith1]

More info any day now

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me? I can still hope though right?

 

[TheGerman]

Why not just use .438 Dickbutt?

These fucking calibers. Jesus.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

Is KB out at Q? Thought I read something about that, but can’t locate it now.

No, never was out.. Just a rumor from the haters

 

[willbird]

The 7TCU worked just fine fire forming by firing 223 rounds in the 7 TCU chamber. No reason 6.5 Creedmore could not fire form into 338 BO the same way.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

Why not just use .438 Dickbutt?

These fucking calibers. Jesus.

Yeah I agree. With all the other 338 made for Subsonic it's silly for another one. Oh wait...............

 

[ArTeeKay]

Silencer Shop released a video with KB discussing release of commercial ammo and open source info about chamber and specs for rifles as well.

 

[alibi]

Ahem

338 whisper

 

[rlsmith1]

Lemme know when the Whisper is commercially loaded... Will be interesting to see how they do bringing out a new cartridge when supply / demand is already at an imbalance. I'm cheering for this one though.

IF they start making more bullets in the 230 ELD-X range, this could be an interesting super / sub combo. 400 yds subsonic seems like a stretch.

Excited to hear an update though and that they hope to produce 1 million later next year.

 

[ArTeeKay]

For my part, I'm looking forward to potential research into super heavy subsonic pills for the .338 bore, both OTM/HPBT type for accuracy, and expanding bullets (ala selous) for hunting. Lots of development into heavy match bullets in smaller and larger calibers, but .338 seems to have capped out at 300gr or so. I would be very excited to see a 340-370gr OTM that had cross over application into the .338 magnum range.

 

[deersniper]

I hear dbag @Kevin Brittingham has the ammo companies on board to make ammo now

@Hootiewho may be interested in a big bother to 300

 

[Strykervet]

.300BLK pushes a 220gr. @ ~1kfps .338BLK pushes a 300gr. @ 1kfps. So the momentum is 220k vs. 300k. Hardly anything to write home about and considering it takes the biggest and heaviest platform to send it, well, I guess I'll stick with my 8" .300's. They were made to solve a problem.

This thing looks like the answer to a question nobody asked.

Isn't there already a .338 that fits the AR15 platform anyway?

 

[hlee]

36% more Mo and KE is nothing to sneeze at. But, at the cost of going from an ar15 to an ar10, burning more powder for the same effect, and not being compatible with the most common suppressor bore diameter (30 cal), I think I’m a hard pass.

 

[deersniper]

Bc is better not sure if that helps much with subs or not

 

[W54/XM-388]

Isn't there already a .338 that fits the AR15 platform anyway?

.338 Federal is a .308 based cartridge
It is usually supersonic however.

 

[Austan]

.338 Federal is a .308 based cartridge
It is usually supersonic however.

Isn't the 338 whisper ar compatible? I guessed that was his reference.