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Accuracy International 223 conversion working
- Thread starter trophyhunter
- Start date
One of my AX's will be headed your way as soon as Bartlein finishes the barrel blank... can't wait!
Better get off my ass and order a factory small firing pin for my spare LFP bolt to ship with it. Should replace the bolt knob on that bolt too, it has a chunk missing from the original owner.
Regarding the magazines: did you decide to go with MDT or Accurate? Earlier you were talking about experimenting with both.
Better get off my ass and order a factory small firing pin for my spare LFP bolt to ship with it. Should replace the bolt knob on that bolt too, it has a chunk missing from the original owner.
Regarding the magazines: did you decide to go with MDT or Accurate? Earlier you were talking about experimenting with both.
I’m a fan of accurate mag, they have served me very well and no issues to date from customers
mdt has had a few nose dives
Looks like AI trying to kill this project. Dave told me they can no longer get any more of the bolts. You have to buy two separate parts and send them in for repair only now... Such a shame...
If AI doesn't want this happening.. why not make it themselves?
Edit: After talking to some very kind and knowledgeable people, I understand much better.
If AI doesn't want this happening.. why not make it themselves?
Edit: After talking to some very kind and knowledgeable people, I understand much better.
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It may be perceived liability more than anything else. When I needed a spare firing pin for my AXMC, MHSA did not want to sell it to me-- they only wanted to replace it if I sent the bolt in. It took some explaining that I wanted it for a spare to send to LRI to be turned down at the same time they bushed the bolt. Once Adam understood that, they did sell it to me, but were insistent about calling them for the correct procedure for disassembly, reassembly, and function testing if I ever needed to replace it.
My perception is that they want any parts replacement of any critical fire control or safety related parts to be performed at an authorized service center and not sell the parts to an end user to do the work themselves... Maybe there's an exception if you've taken one of the armorer's courses.
Guess I'll find out next week when I try to order another SFP and bolt knob.
I get the liability part, but once you have your Gunsmith build you a barrel, even a world record holder smith, any issues are out of the factories hands. How many times has a manufacture that makes a quality item send it out and some person that maybe shouldn’t be doing stuff wether reloading or building race cars can manage to screw up a ball bearing.
the parts are available for you to adapt this rifle system to small primer. Now if you call and say hey I’m gonna chopsaw this and reweld it clocked differently then you might meet some resistance. Hell I won’t sell parts or firearms here in the shop if I think they’re nuts.
with that although I love them dearly, AI is slow on pushing out parts. And all this pandemic stuff has definitely made stuff & deliveries way worse. But you gotta also see their end. If I sell the motor from a 2020 ZR1 to Joe for his project then I’m pulling a $150,000 car off the line till I make another. And with that why would I still continue manufacture a motor for your 57” Bel Air when I can invest time & labor for new parts for a new rifle. Gotta remember AI is a rifle manufacturer, they built a legacy off of building legendary rifles, not a flush cup accessory.
and...if ever the part completely dries up there are contingencies already discussed to manufacture other needed items.
100% agreed AI is slow on pushing out parts, I've had to wait 7 months for some stuff before.
As you mentioned I think most of their manufacturing capacity goes into building complete rifles, which can leave the spare parts bins a little light. I'm sure the factory and MHSA keep parts on hand for quick turnaround of warranty work, but they probably aren't overflowing with spare parts to sell to the end user.
They have definitely clamped down on selling replacement fire control parts though. A few years ago when I had Wade bush the bolt on my AE it was no problem getting a spare firing pin from Mile High. Last year when I called to get a spare firing pin for my AXMC before I had the bolt bushed they wanted the entire bolt back to replace it, and it took a few emails and finally a phone call with Adam to explain that I wanted a spare to have turned down before they would sell it to me-- and even then he was very insistent to call for the process to swap it if I ever had to install the spare one in the future.
As you mentioned I think most of their manufacturing capacity goes into building complete rifles, which can leave the spare parts bins a little light. I'm sure the factory and MHSA keep parts on hand for quick turnaround of warranty work, but they probably aren't overflowing with spare parts to sell to the end user.
They have definitely clamped down on selling replacement fire control parts though. A few years ago when I had Wade bush the bolt on my AE it was no problem getting a spare firing pin from Mile High. Last year when I called to get a spare firing pin for my AXMC before I had the bolt bushed they wanted the entire bolt back to replace it, and it took a few emails and finally a phone call with Adam to explain that I wanted a spare to have turned down before they would sell it to me-- and even then he was very insistent to call for the process to swap it if I ever had to install the spare one in the future.
Rumor is your bolt body got delivered!! He He
Attachments
Can I add another to the AXMC want list??? Seriously I’m looking for a option as a trainer with factory Ammo. This seems like a perfect option.
The AXMC seems doable, but with not having many people ready to throw cash on the table it’s not on the front burner. Redoing the larger bolt head is the hardest part, and not having a test dummy makes everything I think of just “theory”.
I’d be more inclined to doing the AXSR, also hoping to purchase one in the near future.
I’d be more inclined to doing the AXSR, also hoping to purchase one in the near future.
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So am I reading right that this kit (Bolt work, barrel, and magazine) is $1400 plus the cost of a new bolt? I would then need to send my rifle in to be fitted, and then if I want to shoot .308 again (or any derivative) I could then swap barrels, and bolts and be good to go? If I then want to shoot a .223 Derivative, I can have a barrel spun up by Patriot Valley to an AI prefit spec and be good?
Pricing is close, I don’t need your rifle anymore, you can easily swap barrels & bolt back to your creed or similar. Ai prefit specs are not the same with this conversion so a 223 derivative barrel would need to be spun to these specs for reliable feeding.
I’m anxious to get my 223AI conversion rolling, but I’m still waiting on Bartlein for the barrels I ordered at the end of March. I know they’re busy. The barrels I ordered from them last year took about 6 months too.
So Gilbert, based on your last post we don’t need to send the rifle in anymore-- even for the initial fitting of the conversion?
If that’s the case, could I send in my bolt to be modded for 223 ahead of time, then send you the receiver face to bolt face dimension taken with a tenth indicating depth mic, and then you could spin the barrel up to spec once my blanks are done? I could have Bartlein drop ship them to you.
Or if you still need the rifle for the initial fit up and chambering that’s fine too.
Looking forward to getting this thing put together...
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My barrels are finally on the way from bartlein, time to get this project rolling!
Gilbert, sent you a pm...
Gilbert, sent you a pm...
I should have my 7 SAUM conversion this week, I will report back when I get it
Oh crap i haven’t seen this thread, my notifications don’t come out for some reason.
well we had some very interesting good changes as I expected.
Gotta go through my PM’s as those haven’t worked but for the foreseeable future we aren’t making 223 conversions.
more details to follow
well we had some very interesting good changes as I expected.
Gotta go through my PM’s as those haven’t worked but for the foreseeable future we aren’t making 223 conversions.
more details to follow
I'm sad that I won't be getting a 223 conversion for my AX done in the near future, but I'm also excited to hear about these "very interesting good changes" and what the future will bring.
Guess I'll put 1 barrel blank aside and sit in the holding pattern for now. It's not the end of the world as my 223AI archimedes build in an AX stock is an excellent shooter.
Maybe in the meantime I'll do a 22BR barrel for my AX so I have something new to play with, lol!
Guess I'll put 1 barrel blank aside and sit in the holding pattern for now. It's not the end of the world as my 223AI archimedes build in an AX stock is an excellent shooter.
Maybe in the meantime I'll do a 22BR barrel for my AX so I have something new to play with, lol!
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Oh no... sad to hear this. I was just contemplatng selling off my AI as i dont shoot it enough, but after reading this i think ill change my mind.
Last Gilbert and Enrique said, they were starting to work with Bugholes to ramp up production and sell the 223 and PRC conversions.
And just now in their new product announcement video, AI themselves said they're going to start offering 223 and PRC conversions for the AT and AXSA family.
Not sure if the conversions that AI just announced are based off Gilbert and Enrique's work, or if it's something that they developed themselves... But either way it looks like getting your hands on a 223 or PRC conversion isn't going to be an issue in the future.
Am I the only one that thinks it is funny that the aftermarket has pushed AI to innovate? The new chassis is a very close design to the AO chassis with a GTAC grip and now they are doing magnum and 223 bolts.
I see Sam's AO chassis influence in the AT-X chassis as well.
Gilbert mentioned he approached AI when he started on the 223 project, and they basically told him "neat, good luck."
I spoke with Tom Irwin probably about 8 years ago about offering 223 conversions, and he did say it was something they were playing around with, but it was low on their priority list.
Gilbert mentioned he approached AI when he started on the 223 project, and they basically told him "neat, good luck."
I spoke with Tom Irwin probably about 8 years ago about offering 223 conversions, and he did say it was something they were playing around with, but it was low on their priority list.
As mentioned in another post here Bugholes took over the 223 conversion. He is in the process of sorting his work load out as he’s been swamped. But the bolt conversion is being handled by them going forward. Greg is an AI fan and has all the resources to get this thing going.
So if you’re wanting a 223 conversion and have the bolt in hand, contact Greg at Bugholes to get him moving. We all know he has barrels.
It may interest a few of you to know AI made a 223 conversion for the AW in the year 2000. Also they made factory 6 BR with small double stack mags in 2000.
So it’s pretty hard to copy someone when you invented the chassis and invented the first 223 conversion and invented the first dedicated 6BR tactical rifle. Most people don’t know why they call metal rifle stocks “chassis”. It’s very a British term and was originated by Accuracy International. AI has fully modeled a more modern.223 conversion several years ago. Projects for the recreational shooting market have taken a back seat to military solicitations. The AT-X program started in October of 2019 and development of accessories and conversion components will progress through 2021.
Haters gonna hate
So it’s pretty hard to copy someone when you invented the chassis and invented the first 223 conversion and invented the first dedicated 6BR tactical rifle. Most people don’t know why they call metal rifle stocks “chassis”. It’s very a British term and was originated by Accuracy International. AI has fully modeled a more modern.223 conversion several years ago. Projects for the recreational shooting market have taken a back seat to military solicitations. The AT-X program started in October of 2019 and development of accessories and conversion components will progress through 2021.
Haters gonna hate
Worth mentioning, AI said they “need time” to work on the .223. That likely means years.
They said the magnum bolt would be pretty soon.
So I wouldn’t even begin to expect an AI branded .223 soon. Buy it from bug holes.
They said the magnum bolt would be pretty soon.
So I wouldn’t even begin to expect an AI branded .223 soon. Buy it from bug holes.
Rhett,
I don’t understand the need to get defensive when representing AI, it’s not a good look. The new rifle is great, some people are going to love it, some won’t. Some people saw what the aftermarket could create when things were being worked on behind the scenes at AI, so it’s not really fair to get mad when not everyone knows the details of what was designed back in 2000.
That being said, the Oct 2019 timeline
certainly is interesting. Here’s a picture of 3 of my machined prototypes in Team AI possession from Oct 2019. What a coincidence.
Thanks,
Sam
People are instigating more than anything. Social media, YouTube and on here.
Also, isn't it common practice to grab a competitors product to see what you/ company can do better/ improve on? So, that isn't anything new.
“To make a product for an obsolete rifle is not a good business model” - anonymous guy told me this at SHOT Show last year
hard not to get defensive reading posts from Fudds
I am definitely not mad at you for trying to innovate a design, it was an honest effort. Thanks for the compliments on the new system, it’s rad
Counterpoint: some of us knew about the AW Varminter and the various calibers it was offered in (223, 22BR, 6BR, .243, 22-250 I believe)-- I made reference to the 223 variant of the AW Varminter on the first page of this thread.
Knowing the 223 AW Varminter exists made it all the more frustrating for those of us wanting a 223 conversion because we knew AI had the ability to produce and sell a 223 conversion for *years* because they had already done so 20 years ago... and yet they chose not to offer it other than that extremely limited run of AW's. I probably bugged Tom Irwin about a dozen times to dig out the old blueprints and offer a 223 conversion for the AE and AW.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see AI finally working on it... But it would have been nice to have them available since 2000.
Then again, given I've had to wait 7 months before for some simple spare parts from AI, so I'm not surprised it has taken them this long.
I'm not bashing AI at all for offering the 223 and magnum conversion, as well as the AT-X chassis... It's nice to see them stepping out of their comfort zone and put more effort into the civilian market requests. But with the new chassis and bolt conversions being announced not too long after members here began offering their own aftermarket solutions, of course some people are going to draw their own conclusions...
Looking back after today's announcement, maybe that was code for "we're working on that, but I can't tell you we're working on that."
Even though they all use the same action and bolt? Who cares the S.Tx boys are getting it done
This picture makes me think of the MDT ACC chassis from early 2018.
I mean all you really did was take MPAs idea of offering an aftermarket chassis for the AI and model it after MDT... So you would be hard pressed to claim some type of intellectual property or great idea claim. Props for bringing it to the market though! Looks like AI took these good ideas and made them better.
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My opinion, that no one probably cares about, which is fine however I think it's relevant at the moment:
We are seemingly getting to the pointy end of innovation in a lot of these areas for precision competition rifles (with current technology in terms of manufacturing and materials)... Until something truly revolutionary comes out, it appears that 'most things' have either been done, tested, tried or modified now.
Arca, grip shape, weights, adjustments, angles, machined practical edges, mag wells etc.
I work in the tactical textile nylon equipment industry where people constantly use ideas and design concepts from all over, sometimes subtle, sometimes offensive... It's business, the world is now a small place.
Innovation breeds inspiration that drives new product development... If we weren't looking at each others work and constantly trying to improve on things, we'd be firing muskets still.
I have a lot of respect for Accuracy Obsession, and MDT, and MPA, and AI, and every other relevant company who have gone out of their way in an attempt to service this market.
It's getting more and more difficult to claim IP on these products as in one or many ways they are or have fed off each other to some degree down the line.
I will get an ATX and the PRC bolt face when available, this combination is something that has been on my radar for a long time... Pretty excited.
We are seemingly getting to the pointy end of innovation in a lot of these areas for precision competition rifles (with current technology in terms of manufacturing and materials)... Until something truly revolutionary comes out, it appears that 'most things' have either been done, tested, tried or modified now.
Arca, grip shape, weights, adjustments, angles, machined practical edges, mag wells etc.
I work in the tactical textile nylon equipment industry where people constantly use ideas and design concepts from all over, sometimes subtle, sometimes offensive... It's business, the world is now a small place.
Innovation breeds inspiration that drives new product development... If we weren't looking at each others work and constantly trying to improve on things, we'd be firing muskets still.
I have a lot of respect for Accuracy Obsession, and MDT, and MPA, and AI, and every other relevant company who have gone out of their way in an attempt to service this market.
It's getting more and more difficult to claim IP on these products as in one or many ways they are or have fed off each other to some degree down the line.
I will get an ATX and the PRC bolt face when available, this combination is something that has been on my radar for a long time... Pretty excited.
Is there a ballpark on the cost of the 223 kit from bug holes and is it a complete bolt/Mag/barrel kit?
I think the bit of animosity is because of the reluctance in the past to put emphasis on the civilian market (understandably so). Then people starting making aftermarket accessories that have been increasing in popularity.
Many of those people did so because AI told them they had no interest in that sort of project. So they proceeded with their endeavors.
Either AI didn’t want to reveal they were working on it or they noticed the popularity after said aftermarket product increased in popularity (both also understandable). Now the aftermarket guys feel as if their effort to advance things is not being recognized (again, understandably so).
Let’s just be completely honest, not one single thing lately (in all aspects, not just AI) is anything revolutionary. Flat bottom competition forends, adding weights, chambering in .223.......this is all well developed and nothing ground breaking.
So, getting spun up about who had the idea to incorporate old ideas into a current rifle is just going to end with hurt feelings and bad press.
Many of those people did so because AI told them they had no interest in that sort of project. So they proceeded with their endeavors.
Either AI didn’t want to reveal they were working on it or they noticed the popularity after said aftermarket product increased in popularity (both also understandable). Now the aftermarket guys feel as if their effort to advance things is not being recognized (again, understandably so).
Let’s just be completely honest, not one single thing lately (in all aspects, not just AI) is anything revolutionary. Flat bottom competition forends, adding weights, chambering in .223.......this is all well developed and nothing ground breaking.
So, getting spun up about who had the idea to incorporate old ideas into a current rifle is just going to end with hurt feelings and bad press.
There’s so much good stuff out there for match shooters right now, now including AI, it’s such a ripe buyers market. Manufacturers have listened to shooters and responded. Ruger and Savage included.
Hi,
The above is actually nowhere near the truth. This industry as a whole is not even attempting or wanting to push innovation in lots of areas...
ALLOYS and manufacturing being 2 of the biggest areas in the industry.
Everyone still uses the same basic 2 alloys in action manufacturing.
Everyone still uses the same SAAMI/CIP pressure baselines as 80 years ago.
The industry hasn't even began to "innovate" in regards to looking outside its' small box for methods, alloys, ways, procedures, etc for innovation.
And one of the biggest innovations the industry as a whole needs is providing better customer journeys.
Stop treating customers as they need you or should be happy you let them even purchase your product and get to treating customers with the concept of they are just as important IF not more important than your product quality. (This is why MHSA is so successful for AI!!!)
Sincerely,
Theis
I think I’ll go shoot my 223 AX today
I don’t envy the manufacturers.
Success breeds (potentially...) complacency; ask IBM in 1968.
Ask GM when it’s time to justify the cost of retooling the front end of the Chevy 1500.
Rifles aren’t like the cell phone industry where planned obsolescence ensure a continual stream of repeat buyers almost by the calendar.
If I have a commercially successful product, when do I launch the replacement product which (a) costs a lot in terms of tooling and (b) which is certain to cannibalize my own successful product.
Jack Welch said “Change before you have to.” But there’s no perfect algorithm to tell the manufacturer how long before we have to in order to save our ass.
That’s why we need to applaud and support innovators to keep challenging convention or inertia will crush us.
Success breeds (potentially...) complacency; ask IBM in 1968.
Ask GM when it’s time to justify the cost of retooling the front end of the Chevy 1500.
Rifles aren’t like the cell phone industry where planned obsolescence ensure a continual stream of repeat buyers almost by the calendar.
If I have a commercially successful product, when do I launch the replacement product which (a) costs a lot in terms of tooling and (b) which is certain to cannibalize my own successful product.
Jack Welch said “Change before you have to.” But there’s no perfect algorithm to tell the manufacturer how long before we have to in order to save our ass.
That’s why we need to applaud and support innovators to keep challenging convention or inertia will crush us.
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