Accuracy International AT - Worth It?

[Winny94]

Why in the world would an AT from and AX ass be LE only? The only reason I can think of is like Winchester Ranger HG ammo. They sell LE 50 round boxes of the 'exact' same HPs they sell to civilians in a box of 20 for the SAME price. The worst is Hornady. I've talked to a well known on line provider of fodder and he tells me Hornady threatens anyone who sells TAP to civilians. Why? Cost. I think the same reason is to blame here. What would be the legality reason? I can buy the exact kit SOCOM uses but not what a Police sniper uses?

Why? Who knows - maybe so they can sell more AX buttstocks? As to why people are under the impression the AT LE is only available to LE/Mil? Because MHS says they are the exclusive distributor for that rifle and on the product description page, it specifically says only available to active duty

https://www.milehighshooting.com/ac...e-308-in-stock-for-pricing-call-303-255-9999/

 

[ChuckP65]

I believe they come with a God Save the Queen card with a lipstick imprint from her majesty as well.

 

[Lowlight]

AINA makes parts for the UK too...

I want to see a picture of that rifle, I have a feeling it's not a true AI but a Chassis

either way, the operation in the US is owned by both Tom and Dave, as well as others, it's all the same.

The Better Barrels are the US Bartleins, they use LW and Border in the past, and the LW are good, but nobody would compare a LW to a Bartlein

 

[ChuckP65]

Why? Who knows - maybe so they can sell more AX buttstocks? As to why people are under the impression the AT LE is only available to LE/Mil? Because MHS says they are the exclusive distributor for that rifle and on the product description page, it specifically says only available to active duty

https://www.milehighshooting.com/ac...e-308-in-stock-for-pricing-call-303-255-9999/

One would think that the general public is a larger sales population. Same with Hornady TAP. There is no such thing as LE ammo period but sales are to LE only - including retired. If you are MH or Hornady wouldn't you want the sale? Can't see any downside to broader availability.

 

[Lowlight]

The Long Action AX LE was really nice, the changes are awesome.

Rhett's was there the improvements were cool

 

[deersniper]

Got a cop friend?

Pretty sure a cop got convicted of a straw purchase for doing that with a glock

 

[Winny94]

One would think that the general public is a larger sales population. Same with Hornady TAP. There is no such thing as LE ammo period but sales are to LE only - including retired. If you are MH or Hornady wouldn't you want the sale? Can't see any downside to broader availability.

ask anyone whos been in this industry long enough and theyll tell you a lot of decisions made dont make sense on the surface - some do have underlying reasons that make sense once you know it, others are just poor decisions.

 

[RyanScott]

Pretty sure a cop got convicted of a straw purchase for doing that with a glock

Difference is he took possession of it rather than simply ordering it in and having his uncle do the papers.

 

[ChuckP65]

How do these Cadex rifles compare? They are clearly geared to the same customer base.

 

[Long Range 338]

Top notch rifles for sure but in talking with then at SHOT they don't do the barrel changes the way AI does. You can call Cadex and give them your serial number and they will build a barrel and ship it to you. Many like the ergonomics better on the Cadex than the AI, all personal choice. Cadex is a damn nice piece of equipment.

 

[lte82]

Rifles built to a specific purpose make the best rifles, and my AT will never replace my match rifles or hunting rifles, because they are the best at what they were built for. HOWEVER, the AT does do most things pretty well, and as or more reliably than all of them, so if I had to have only one gun it's definitely at the top of my list.

 

[deersniper]

Why? Who knows - maybe so they can sell more AX buttstocks? As to why people are under the impression the AT LE is only available to LE/Mil? Because MHS says they are the exclusive distributor for that rifle and on the product description page, it specifically says only available to active duty

https://www.milehighshooting.com/ac...e-308-in-stock-for-pricing-call-303-255-9999/

Assholes.

F company’s that restrict products to “civilians”
Ammo, thermal, night vision, rifles. Al those company’s are gay

 

[hollowoutadime]

Agree on the asshole part, but I think unnecessarily offending the homos on the board.

 

[The Durk]

Give it a year. LE models will be on EE and gunbroker.

 

[Winny94]

Give it a year. LE models will be on EE and gunbroker.

someone correct me if im wrong, but I believe theyve been out for quite awhile already

 

[The Durk]

Exactly a year. Debuted SHOT 2019

 

[mkollman74]

For those who have asked, I didnt mod my bolt. It just takes rounds through it and know how and where to lube and grease it and with what. I use a couple drops synthetic motor oil on the top of the ID of the action and bolt stop, then most importantly, a light dab of brake grease on the lug where the bolt handle meets the bolt body on the aft side where it meets the action. If u look at your bolt handle when cycling it slowly, you'll see where the contact is. U lightly grease it there and the bolt almost slams shut on bolt close. It even makes the bolt lift lighter due to less friction. Other than that, I havent done a single thing to my bolt. u don't need to use a lot of oil or grease. A literal drop of each and Bob's your uncle.

Very helpful. Thank you.

 

[ToddM]

I stumbled into an AI AT lightly used with .308 and .260 barrels at a local shop for a steal, I had just picked up a 6.5 TRG earlier in the year so at the time it was a hard decision. Have not regretted it yet.

That said, I thought about upgrading the rear to the AX version but with some of the Demo deals, trading the TRG or AT off on an AX is very tempting.

 

[Terry Cross]

There is no such thing as LE ammo period but sales are to LE only - .

?

 

[USMC mustang]

Nice! Still $800 and standard AI contour looks like, so essentially still more expensive and not as tailored as ordering from straight jacket, pva, etc.

But it’s awesome that they’re offering 6BR! Had a few mile high barrels and they were shooters.

Mile High has a lot of Bartlein blanks in stock and in various contours. They can chamber, thread, and Cerakote the bbl to whatever specs you want.

 

[Steel head]

Well, my AIUSA rifles were "off the rack" or "mass production". When I bought this one, as it was being built, they communicated by video and picture, demonstrating each piece of the process. I'm not a smith, so im by no means an expert, but when they got down to spinning the barrel, they explained that the process there is different(slower) than US. According to my guy, this adds to the precision of the product but adds time. Being able to watch the entire build being completed by hand was informative to say the least....one of the main differences between my US and UK versions is weight. The UK version is 9oz lighter @13.75lbs but the construction is far more stout. As to the specific differences between the barrels(which both have a 1:9.735) I'm not sure[I can say for sure, that @MER my groups are much tighter with the UK]. The action on the UK is smother and a bit more solid...there is zero wiggle while on my USA, there is a bit of horizontal wiggle at the back end. Overall, the UK is just plain more solid than its US cousin. That's the best I can do. I apologize, as I am not an expert...but I am a competent LRS and have a ton of trigger time with both and in my opinion, the UK performs consistently better, especially at and beyond 1760.?
Hope that helps

 

[ChuckP65]

?

I don’t follow the question mark response to their is no such thing as LE only ammo. There isn’t. Only packaging and perhaps some barrier bullets Hornady sells only in that TAP line. Other than true AP like 30 06 and 50 BMG Raufoss there is no legal distinction and even these are attainable. I don’t think Raufoss is legal to own but I’ve seen guys on YouTube shoot them. I’m just saying that there is a ‘market’ of LE only stuff that is LE only because of something other than being legal - namely cost per round. Hornady tried to sell some TAP called FPD or for personal defense. It bombed because people aren’t paying $29 for 20 AR rounds. Only Black Hills has that magic fog working for them where people will pay well over a dollar a bullet for a 223 with a Sierra MK on the end.

Let me clarify that I fully support Le or former Le having this available but Winchester and a Federal Ranger and Tactical are easy to get. Hornady just made some stance. Same thing here. What about adding an AX butt to an AT forend could possibly make it LE only?

 

[MarinePMI]

I think Terry's "?" is in reference to that there is LE only ammo (I suspect).

Today I don't know, but many years ago (25 actually) Winchester used to make "LE Only" ammo (.308 stuff) that was only sold to LE (was even labelled "For Law Enforcement Use Only"). I had a DEA buddy at the time, who gave me about 100rds of the stuff. Now young (and stupid) me thought "Meh, it's not that different than any other ammo" and I went whitetail hunting with it. Bad idea. That stuff was so frangible, that a double lung shot, had me cleaning ruptured intestines out of the chest cavity. That shit was nasty (like "black talon" nasty) for making wounds. The only thing I've seen since, that shot that way, was the SOST 30 cal rounds (IIRC they were 130grs or something like that). I told a buddy to not shoot anything he wanted to eat with those bullets, only to receive an e-mail one day with a "We went pig hunting, and you're right, I can't eat anything I shot with those SOST bullets". Smh...

Long story short, I'd wager there is actually "LE Only" ammo, but it isn't as frequently seen as some of the cross over types like "TAP" and others (that are marketing the "coolness" factor of "law enforcement" ammo; kinda like "milspec").

 

[Terry Cross]

I don’t follow the question mark response to their is no such thing as LE only ammo. There isn’t. Only packaging and perhaps some barrier bullets Hornady sells only in that TAP line. Other than true AP like 30 06 and 50 BMG Raufoss there is no legal distinction and even these are attainable. I don’t think Raufoss is legal to own but I’ve seen guys on YouTube shoot them. I’m just saying that there is a ‘market’ of LE only stuff that is LE only because of something other than being legal - namely cost per round. Hornady tried to sell some TAP called FPD or for personal defense. It bombed because people aren’t paying $29 for 20 AR rounds. Only Black Hills has that magic fog working for them where people will pay well over a dollar a bullet for a 223 with a Sierra MK on the end.

Let me clarify that I fully support Le or former Le having this available but Winchester and a Federal Ranger and Tactical are easy to get. Hornady just made some stance. Same thing here. What about adding an AX butt to an AT forend could possibly make it LE only?

Yes.
Don't want to derail or sidetrack this thread on an un-needed tangent but there are several L.E. specific ammunition products that are not just repackaged standard SKUs.

Federal, Winchester and RUAG right off the bat are some that make production ammo spec'd to, packaged and marketed to the LE (and maybe mil) users. These products are sold through different channels and do not share component specs with any of their other commercial offerings. Could you get your hands on some through back channels and connections?. . . ..probably but there definitely exists LE only ammo.

./

 

[AIAW]

Like these little fellas: https://www.lehighdefense.com/index.php?_route_=all/308-ap-wu-176gr-bullet

Got the word tungsten in it - needs "controlled"... Thanks Lehigh

 

[hollowoutadime]

Like these little fellas: https://www.lehighdefense.com/index.php?_route_=all/308-ap-wu-176gr-bullet

Got the word tungsten in it - needs "controlled"... Thanks Lehigh

They want want to check their grammar. Also, I don't want to be the hostage in this scenario:

"We have expertly-matched the design and performance characteristics of these bullets so that you can expect a POI shift of >2 MOA across calibers. "

 

[deersniper]

Saw that too lol

 

[RyanScott]

There is basically only a few scenarios where AP would be appropriate for hostage rescue. It’s more of a military requirement.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Upgrade to an AI/AX demo for $4799. They look to have a lot of demo AX's. Threaded too. Good deal

Accuracy International AX Pale Brown .243 Winchester 26" Showroom Demo Rifle R11468

Accuracy International AX Rifle .243 Winchester 26" PB/PB | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

 

[ChuckP65]

Yes.
Don't want to derail or sidetrack this thread on an un-needed tangent but there are several L.E. specific ammunition products that are not just repackaged standard SKUs.

Federal, Winchester and RUAG right off the bat are some that make production ammo spec'd to, packaged and marketed to the LE (and maybe mil) users. These products are sold through different channels and do not share component specs with any of their other commercial offerings. Could you get your hands on some through back channels and connections?. . . ..probably but there definitely exists LE only ammo.

./

Not true. Ever hear of SG Ammo? He sells many 'LE Only' items for commercial sale. Only Hornady stopped it a few years back. federal, Winchester, Speer all are available. Pistol and rifle as well as shotgun slugs. Target Sports as well. SG will even at time have overruns of DHS or FBI ammo for example. When DHS orders 1,000,000 rounds and then cancels after delivery of 200,000 as they 'changed their requirements the retailers are allowed to sell. Biggest example of this is M855. The entire reason you see green tips everywhere is the various armed forces ordered billions of the round and then decided it wasn't performing so they ordered up the M855A1. Those you cannot find unless they are somewhat someone lifted from the military as they contain a two par bullet that has a true steel penetrator. I still remember Obama saying on a speech that AP is illegal. Not true depending on the thickness of the steel penetrator - the M855 being the example.

Check this out and read the description. These are Bonded Talons essentially:

50 Round Box - 40 SW 180 Grain Bonded Hollow Point Winchester Ranger Service Ammo - ZQ4455 | SGAmmo.com

50 Round Box of 40 SW 180 Grain Bonded Hollow Point Winchester Ranger Service Ammo for SaleSKU number: ZQ445510 boxes per caseGovernment contract overrun ammo, limited supplies available. Nickel plated brass, lacquer sealed primers, sealed case mouths. Bonded JHP bullet.

www.sgammo.com

Look at what a box of civilian PDX1 costs for 20 ( the same bullet) and you will see the light:

Winchester PDX1 Centerfire Bonded Handgun Ammo | Cabela's

www.cabelas.com

 

[Lowlight]

If you don't think there a LE Only ammo,

Go order some RUAG 338 Raufoss ...

I love guys who argue with experts ... as if.

 

[ChuckP65]

I think Terry's "?" is in reference to that there is LE only ammo (I suspect).

Today I don't know, but many years ago (25 actually) Winchester used to make "LE Only" ammo (.308 stuff) that was only sold to LE (was even labelled "For Law Enforcement Use Only"). I had a DEA buddy at the time, who gave me about 100rds of the stuff. Now young (and stupid) me thought "Meh, it's not that different than any other ammo" and I went whitetail hunting with it. Bad idea. That stuff was so frangible, that a double lung shot, had me cleaning ruptured intestines out of the chest cavity. That shit was nasty (like "black talon" nasty) for making wounds. The only thing I've seen since, that shot that way, was the SOST 30 cal rounds (IIRC they were 130grs or something like that). I told a buddy to not shoot anything he wanted to eat with those bullets, only to receive an e-mail one day with a "We went pig hunting, and you're right, I can't eat anything I shot with those SOST bullets". Smh...

Long story short, I'd wager there is actually "LE Only" ammo, but it isn't as frequently seen as some of the cross over types like "TAP" and others (that are marketing the "coolness" factor of "law enforcement" ammo; kinda like "milspec").

Sorry my friend but not true. Here is current Winchester LE Rifle ammo for sale to anyone. It says LE Only right on the box. It's Ranger line:

Winchester Ranger 223 Remington Match 69 Grain BJHP - Ammo Deals

Winchester Ranger 223 Remington Match 69 Grain BJHP for sale at Target Sports USA. Enjoy free shipping on bulk 223 Remington ammo for sale online.

www.targetsportsusa.com

They do make frangible LE as well - here is Federal - again LE right on the box:

Federal BallistiClean 223 Remington Ammo 55 Gr Frangible RHT - Ammo Deals

Federal BallistiClean 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Frangible RHT at Target Sports USA with free shipping available. Enjoy deals on 223 Remington ammo.

www.targetsportsusa.com

And here are your SOST bullets if you want them again:

Federal Lake City 7.62x51 NATO MK319 MOD 0 Ammo 130 Gr SOST Open Tip Match - Ammo Deals

Federal Lake City 7.62x51 NATO MK319 MOD 0 Ammo 130 Grain SOST Open Tip Match at Target Sports USA with free shipping available. Enjoy deals on 7.62x

www.targetsportsusa.com

 

[ChuckP65]

If you don't think there a LE Only ammo,

Go order some RUAG 338 Raufoss ...

I love guys who argue with experts ... as if.

Since when does Law Enforcement use exploding ammunition bro? Some expert.

 

[ChuckP65]

?

That's right. There is LE packaged but not LE only meaning you can get the same bullet but in civilian packaging. Give me an example of something a civilian can't have that LE can and don't mention Raufoss as that is military only and BTW I have seen even them for sale on Gun Broker.

 

[Lowlight]

Stopping vehicles, they used a 50 here CO when the end user Up-Armored it,

In TX they stopped a truck with it,

Bro... you're a fucking troll who thinks he is smarter than everyone else, you are pointing to lame ass examples but there are many others out there.

There are .gov Federal Agencies which go beyond Local LE

Many departments use 338, Las Vegas is one, moving forward what is a good way to get through Hotel Glass

How many situations you do want

 

[RyanScott]

I met a cop with a mini gun once. I’m sure there are more but these guys had a use for it.

 

[Lowlight]

You should enlighten us and tell us how many departments you have trained over your career

 

[MarinePMI]

 

[beenjammin]

Well, my AIUSA rifles were "off the rack" or "mass production". When I bought this one, as it was being built, they communicated by video and picture, demonstrating each piece of the process. I'm not a smith, so im by no means an expert, but when they got down to spinning the barrel, they explained that the process there is different(slower) than US. According to my guy, this adds to the precision of the product but adds time. Being able to watch the entire build being completed by hand was informative to say the least....one of the main differences between my US and UK versions is weight. The UK version is 9oz lighter @13.75lbs but the construction is far more stout. As to the specific differences between the barrels(which both have a 1:9.735) I'm not sure[I can say for sure, that @MER my groups are much tighter with the UK]. The action on the UK is smother and a bit more solid...there is zero wiggle while on my USA, there is a bit of horizontal wiggle at the back end. Overall, the UK is just plain more solid than its US cousin. That's the best I can do. I apologize, as I am not an expert...but I am a competent LRS and have a ton of trigger time with both and in my opinion, the UK performs consistently better, especially at and beyond 1760.?
Hope that helps

...freakin redcoats.... always got to be just a little bit better then us yanks...


I traded all my AI stuff out Cadex... How about those Canadians Eh?

 

[ChuckP65]

A troll? I started this thread. I don't think I'm smarter than everyone else. I was actually just information sharing that coin can be saved buying LE is how this all started.

 

[MarinePMI]

A troll? I started this thread. I don't think I'm smarter than everyone else. I was actually just information sharing that coin can be saved buying LE is how this all started.

You do realize who Lowlight is, right? <raised eyebrow>

For that matter, do you know Terry's back ground as well? <another raised eyebrow> (well, the same one, since only one works right now, LOL!)

Might wanna check on that if'n ya don't...

 

[beenjammin]

The answer is quite simple; although the rifles appear similar, they are drastically different. Across the pond, the AT is dubbed the “After Tea”. These elite and very unique rifles are built within a window of time that exists immediately following Tea Time. During this time, extreme focus is maintained, enhanced motor function exhibited and this leads to a superior rifle.
These rifles definitely group better and do not exhibit the sloppy loose action that the greasy fingered freedom fry eating American induces by placing a Euro rifle on an American shelf.

well done sir!

 

[Lowlight]

You're an asshole - and yes I consider you trolling people you have no clue their pedigree

I am waiting for your Bona Fides? Beyond google that is ...

There is Federal Law Enforcement, there are local law enforcement and these things can vary greatly from place to place

Used to be no civilian could do Simunitions too, today I believe they advertise it for all. Shit does change but that just means there is stuff under the hood of which you have no clue.

 

[AIAW]

The answer is quite simple; although the rifles appear similar, they are drastically different. Across the pond, the AT is dubbed the “After Tea”. These elite and very unique rifles are built within a window of time that exists immediately following Tea Time. During this time, extreme focus is maintained, enhanced motor function exhibited and this leads to a superior rifle.
These rifles definitely group better and do not exhibit the sloppy loose action that the greasy fingered freedom fry eating American induces by placing a Euro rifle on an American shelf.

 

[Terry Cross]

Not true.

I took your statement earlier on post #208 to mean that all L.E. ammo is just an existing commercial target, hunting or plinking ammo SKU that a manufacturer just repackaged and added a different SKU.
If that is what you meant, you are incorrect.

If your statement means that L.E. ammo is indeed unique but can be bought outside L.E. channels by non-law enforcement then heck yes you are correct.

There will always be people and businesses that will obtain what you want for a price even if the manufacturer never intended it to be in that channel. Pretty sure we could dig up some Stingers and Claymores if you have enough coin.


./

 

[Lowlight]

I bet I can get some 50 Cal Raufoss right now if I really wanted it ... doesn't make it legit.

Ask all the guys who were buying the laser designators after dudes stole them from the military

I spent months answering ICE handing over IP addresses for guys selling military-grade lasers on here.

LE Only stuff exists on many levels, the fact you can find some variant or repackaged versions of it doesn't mean it was meant to be sold that way.

You can buy an AI AT as a fixed variant and upgrade it to the LE / AX buttstock, then resell it as an AT LE, doesn't mean you bought an AT LE, you made one, which is semantically different.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Shit. I should have been checking this thread. Didn’t realize it got awesome.

 

[ChuckP65]

No brother. I just meant that it's annoying that if you want an AT with an AX ass end you have to be LE and then drifted in to the ammo conversation because it's also annoying that you can buy 50 'LE' Ranger JHPs for $20 and then when you go to a store and buy the civilian packaging called PDX1 it's still $20 but you only get 20 of the same bullets.

I never claimed to be some credentialed expert, I'm not a poser and I sure as hell am not some legendary sniper.

Bottom line is I meant this:

"If your statement means that L.E. ammo is indeed unique but can be bought outside L.E. channels by non-law enforcement then heck yes you are correct."

I wasn't looking to piss off anyone in any way.

 

[Dthomas3523]

One would think that the general public is a larger sales population. Same with Hornady TAP. There is no such thing as LE ammo period but sales are to LE only - including retired. If you are MH or Hornady wouldn't you want the sale? Can't see any downside to broader availability.

You’ve jumped the shark.

While *some* le ammo is commercially available, there is plenty le ammo that is absolutely not available unless it’s sold illegally.

Making absolute statements is typically a bad idea.

Also, to answer your earlier statement, the AT “LE” is basically a favor done for LEO’s.

When a dept or individual purchases an AT over an AX for duty use, it is typically due to cost. They can’t afford the extra $2k or more for the AX. This is either due to personal or department finances (and yes, there are definitely guys out there using personal rifles at work out of necessity).

So, what they have done with the AT LE is offer the cheaper AT with the most popular part of the AX, the adjustable buttstock, at roughly the same price as an AT. This would typically be an $800 upgrade.

AI is an agency/dept focused company that happens to also sell to civilians. However, they don’t focus on the civilian side. Hence why the comp trigger took so long and why there is currently no AI produced .223.

Sit back, read more and post less. You’ll learn something.

 

[ChuckP65]

Yup. I absolutely did make an unwise absolute statement. All points taken.