Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

[Wannashootit]

Hi, Guys.
First post. Getting into shooting w/my sons...the "older" one is serious about accuracy, while the young 'un and myself are happy with a couple of MOA, LOL...

We knew nothing about the sport when we entered the local shop, we just told the owner he wanted to target shoot, up to a couple of hundred meters max. He recommended, and we purchased, a Remington 700 VTR in .223, and outfitted it with a Bushnell Elite 3200- 5-15x40 for him.

He's shooting 1-2 MOA with the Fed XM193's we've been plinking with, and wants to do better. Given that we've only been to the range three times, I think he's doing pretty well. Hard to tell at this point how good the gun is, vs. the shooter. Also going to start experimenting with ammo, picked up some Hornady HP's to try.

Wondering if you guys could suggest accurizing "mods" that this rifle could benefit from. The trigger pull seems to be quite heavy- should I adjust the factory trigger, or replace with an aftermarket (like Timney). Is either of those options a DIY project?

He would like a thumbhole stock. Would the accuracy benefit from an aftermarket stock? If so, any suggestions?

Any other suggestions to maximize the accuracy of the rifle? Thanks!

 

[MLC]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

A change of diet would be my first step.
Try the Black Hills 52 grain or 68 grain remanufactured loading as an economical step up.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

If you can't find any remanufactured match ammo, the 40 round winchester white box 45 grain varmint load is normally a VERY accurate load.

Save your brass.
Reload, 68 or 69 grain match bullet over 24 grains of Varget.

I am not sure which trigger your rifle has, but trigger pull weight is adjusted by one screw. The other twos screws are take up and overtravel (i think).
Adjusting the trigger is a do it yourself job, I don't recommend going below 3 lbs.
Do an internet search for "adjusting Remington factory trigger"

You'll need fingernail polish remover, q-tips and cheap fingernail polish in the color of your choice and a hex key of the proper size.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Thanks for the advice, guys.

 

[pry]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

I think replacing the stock is a good idea, the plastic one that it comes with has no bedding block and is just cheap feeling IMO.

I put my vtr it in a Bell & Carlson light tactical stock, i really like the stock for the $$. It's not a thumbhole stock though. look at the AICS stocks or if those are out of the price range check out the choate super varmint/tactical. Anything is an upgrade over stock!

 

[tigmaned]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

i second that, replace the plastic stock!!! geta H-S or B&C...

my sps-v in 223 at 100 yards with factory stock, i could make the bullet move to the left 3" at only a 100 yards by the way i held the stock. my H-S i can't.

have fun shooting with your son!

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Thanks again for sharing the "knowledge"...this is a great forum.
Do you think the B&C Medalist VTR is a good fit?

I don't mind (well....it's better than buying him video games)the coin for that stock IF it will provide results equal to the cost. Do you think the Medalist will provide substantive improvements for this particular gun, or would there be a better choice?

Also, we were wondering- is it best to have the stock installed by a smith for optimal results, or is it just a DIY project like the trigger adjustment?

 

[MLC]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Dropping your rifle into a take off HS Precision LTR stock would be a good bang for your buck(200+/-) upgrade without requiring bedding.
Torque the screws properly and it will shoot well, my LTR shot .3 to 1 MOA without skim bedding.

 

[RobertB]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

If you don't mind spending some money then a stock wouldnt be a bad idea. I would just shoot it how it is a while and learn what it takes to shoot it well stock. Then upgrade and see the difference. It should be plenty fine for a couple hundred meter max like you said.

 

[viper42]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Drop it in a Bell and Carlson. It will give you the same benefit as a HS and it cost less. Purchase the model with a aluminum bedding block. You won't need to pay extra to have it bedded due to the block molded in the stock. This alone will improve accuracy. Get a trigger job or buy a Timney trigger. A trigger is vital in any setup. Remington claims to have an "adjustable trigger", this is BS to me. Tough to set a consisent pull 3lbs or lighter. Also, have it set to 3lbs and no lighter until he has experience. Make him shoot the rifling out of that barrel before you upgrade further or to more expensive/serious equipment. When he starts showing results out to 600yds or so then debate the next upgrades.

Ammo is also crucial as mentioned by MLC. This is where reloading comes into play. Paying 30-50 a box for ammo will make range trips few and far between depending on what you want to spend. Try multiple ammo. Every rifle likes different even if it's the same model.

 

[GorbashUK]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

First thing to do is sort out some good ammo. Those R700's will shoot 1 moa and better easily will a good reload. As mentioned earlier, try a 69gr Sierra MatchKing over 24gr of Varget or Vit 140, Lapua brass. That load will get you back to 600 no problems.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Wow- some great advice guys. I've told my son that we shouldn't jump into sh** we know nothing about- and seek the advice of others that do online before making buying decisions...

Up until now I'd not considered reloading; just didn't seem to be worth the hassle in terms of money saved- or so I thought.
That opinion was foolishly based on comparing costs based upon buying the "plinking" ammo I mentioned in the first post.

I realize now that ammo is critical to the sub-MOA accuracy he's trying for- and as "mlc" and "solo" said- that made me see the light- the only way to assure match grade ammo without breaking the bank is by reloading. This allows the best of both worlds- frequent shooting (practice, practice, practice) and quality ammo. Think I got it now?

Who knows- my Mini might even appreciate the "good stuff"

Thanks again, guys.

 

[Rust]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Reload first. Plenty of info on the reloading section. You'll get more advice than you need but a couple of things to note.

1st. Get a reloading manual and read the thing before you buy anything else.

2nd. See if you can watch someone to reload. He may not be doing things as described in the reloading manual. That's fine, just observe and ask questions. If thet are doing something obviously screwed up, discuss it but don't push the issue. You can learn from the mistakes of others.

3rd. There are a few things you need to spend money on up front. Good dies are one, I haven't bought anything but Redding in the last thirty years. An accurate scale to weigh powder charges with to get you started. An inexpensive press is just fine for a beginner at 1/5th the cost. Lee and RCBS both sell "beginner" reloading kits for not a lot of money.

4th. Keep it simple. Don't go and buy every bullet and powder made. Pick a powder, bullet, brass and primer that works for pretty much everyone and work with that. Buy new brass, Winchester is just fine, don't mix manufacturers as internal volume which affects pressure (think compression ratio in an engine) which affect accuracy.

5th. Should be first. be safe. Just starting off, don't go beyond maximum listed loads in your manual, approach them with caution, Doesn't matter what Joe Blow says, he isn't responsible for your personnal safety.

6th. DON"T USE SOMEONE ELSES HANDLOADS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN DEVELOPED FOR YOUR RIFLE UNLESS YOU REALLT REALLY TRUST THEM. AND THEN THINK HARD ON IT SOME MORE. NO ONE BUT YOU IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR SAFETY. OR THAT OF YOUR CHILDREN.

 

[MLC]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

From a reloader with 10 years of experience,
buy Quickload at the beginning.
I got frustrated because there were manuals that didn't have xxx bullet or xxx powder.
It is very useful.

 

[Mosdet]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

I have a 700XCR .308 and found that the trigger upgrade made the biggest improvment in my shooting. Huber two stage trigger Huber Concepts is what I went with and would never change to anything else. If you want to keep the stock "stock" get a good cheek rest like this one: Karsten Adjustable Cheekpiece

If they loose intrest in shooting at least you have not spent a lot of money on a new stock. As for the trigger, you could sell it here (if you get 100 posts) very quickly. Guess what I am saying is in your upgrades make sure you buy value items that can be resold or retain their value. You know.... Just in case they loose intrest

-Mosdet

 

[GCMxVeGeTa]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A change of diet would be my first step.
Try the Black Hills 52 grain or 68 grain remanufactured loading as an economical step up.</div></div>

+1 Black Hills blue box is great for the price. If it is a 1:9 twist then the 68 should be very accurate (below MOA).

 

[SRT_Supply]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He would like a thumbhole stock. Would the accuracy benefit from an aftermarket stock? If so, any suggestions?</div></div>

If he wants a thumbhole, consider the AICS. You can drop in a 10rd .223 Rem magazine and also have the choice of going for a folding stock as well.

Short action chassis:
http://store.accuracyinternationalsrt.com/categories/Chassis-Systems/AICS-Short-Action/

223 magazine:
http://store.accuracyinternationalsrt.com/products/AICS-.223-Remington-10rd-Magazine.html

 

[dhutch]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

There are tons of Match ammo that will produce much better results than XM193. Check out a few ammo sites...Link below has various options of match .223 Remington at various prices. The fiochi and privi partizan would be a decent lower level match load to let him practice on, until you can start reloading.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/223-556-match-ammo

ETA: Next I'd go with a new stock. You wont go wrong with an H&S Precision take off from another Remington 700 or a B&C Medalist stock. I've owned both, shot both and prefer the B&C because of the slightly smaller palm swell.

Next I'd look at bedding the stock. There are TONS of DIY bedding threads here on Snipers-Hide that take the process down to the step by step. (With Pictures)

Once you've done all that, THEN I'd look at another trigger. Let the kid work on trigger control with a sub-par trigger, then once he shows he can consistently shoot with that, then up the bar a little and get him a nicer trigger.

 

[AQC440]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

I have sighted in 3 different VTR's and all of them were sub-MOA out of the box with match ammo. So yes an ammo change should be in your near future. Also as mentioned above, the stock is easily affected by pressure. I am not talking about pulling down and back at some obscure angle creating rebound recoil, I mean something as simple as laying your hand on the stock by the barrel.( which is a no,no )
The trigger is an x-mark pro trigger if your VTR is the latest model. If that is the case, they can be adjusted at home but the set screw is usually sealed so tight most people strip the screw before they get it loose, it usually takes heat. A trip to your local gunsmith may be in order, at least for the first one...just my.02! You guys enjoy and stay safe!

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Rust,thanks for the reloading equip. recommendations. We're going to look at it asap...

What started a couple of months ago as "let's take Dad's Mini to the range" has really turned into something special. I used to shoot as a kid on a family farm, and it's great fun getting back into it. More importantly- a great way to spend quality time with my sons.

What I didn't expect- and this is gonna hit me in the wallet- is that I've really become interested in shooting beyond the level of what I intended. I can see neither of us being satisfied with 100 yard shooting down the road as we acquire the necessary skills. The technical aspect of long-range shooting is fascinating to both of us and looks to be quite the "ultimate" challenge. I'm beginning to see why so many of you are so passionate about the sport. Fortunately, there's a 200 yd range where we frequent that's open sometimes- but beyond that I have no idea where we would pursue the hobby. Guess I'd better become friends with a farmer somewhere, or move to Montana...

Again, thanks for all the unselfish advice. We're taking it all in, and making LOTS of notes.

 

[Ren]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Wannashootit... A group of us, usually 4 or more go to Manatee Gun club that is about an hour and a half south of New Port Richey... (guessing )

See this thread. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1197019&gonew=1#UNREAD

You can try a few different stocks and optics before you buy.

Plus you can meet some local guys that reload and maybee get some instruction on some different reloading gear.

 

[Rust]

Re: Accurizing the Rem. .223 VTR?

Keep the KISS principle firmly in mind.

Get a single manual and read it. Both Hornady and Sierra make accurate bullets and have manuals so I'd recommend starting there first. Keep the amount of information you are trying to absord limited to what you need for the task at hand to prevent distraction and confusion.

Pick a single powder, a single bullet and a single primer to get started. Do a load workup and testing with those. That is to familiarize yourself with the basic techniques needed. It also keeps your costs for getting started more reasonable. Save the test target(s) so that you can analyze what you've done and refer back to them later.

http://www.6mmbr.com/targets.html has targets you can print out that work well for record keeping during load developemnt.

Once you get comfortable with reloading for accuracy then you can try other powders, bullets and primers.

Once you feel like you've wrung the accuracy out of the rifle, which also gains practice in technique for accurate shooting, then you can consider things like a new trigger, a new stock, a better scope etc.

And just keep in mind that shooting is the only sport in which you set off a controlled explosion six inches from your face.