Actions: Surgeon, Defiant, Badger? Equal in quality?

[Pusher591]

My Deviant has zero bind so I don't know where all the binding talk is coming from. Mine is Melonited so tolerances are still tight without the increase in tightness after adding Cerakote. I did notice the bolt lift is a little stiffer then my old Surgeon but the Deviant is way smoother and slick as snot with the melonite/TW25 combo.

 

[Capt Academy]

Interesting post, my Defiance will also bind with the slightest amount of sand or dirt. It's a great action, very tight, but my trued Rem 700 seems to function much better if the sand is blowing or my rifle gets dirty. My BAT action works well, but it's on a 338 LM, so I don't know how well it would perform in a tactical match. I've never owned or shot a Surgeon, so I can't compare the Defiance or BAT, but I have heard nothing but good things from the guys that shoot them.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I'm guessing a lot of the binding complaints with the Defiance actions is indeed a result of a close fit between bolt and raceway, along with a liberal coating of cerakote.

Badger Ordnance actions have a really close fit, too. My first M2008 was cerakoted and bound like a mofo. My second 2008 and my 2013 are melonited and run beautifully.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Im on my 3rd Templar, aka Defiance. All have had multiple barrels and put through hard work. I love them and I am 100% confident with them. Ask anyone who knows me, I put my equipment through the tests before I believe in it.

On a side note... good luck getting a Surgeon anytime n the near future.

 

[steve123]

Tolerances in the Deviant series actions are extremely tight, cerakoting the bolt and action internally makes it bind up.
My builder actually turned down my Deviant bolt a couple thou prior to coating. Runs slicker than shit now.
your other option is meloniting the bolt, or meloniting the bolt and action. Mark at SAC did both on my new 300wm build/ Deviant.
I couldnt be happier with this action,,,,,

Good to know, thanks.

I wonder if the various rebadged Defiance actions are made to different tolerance specs in the bolt and raceway? I also wonder if extending the bolt stop forward a tad so that the bolt won't come back as far will eliminate the bolt binding?

Nicko would have to chime in but I don't remember their Deviant bolts being Cerakoted.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I wouldnt overlook the BAT actions either. Forget the BAT Tactical actions from Wolf, just get the real thing. Yes BATs can be tight as a mofo as they are usually built for BR but you can specify to Mr Bruce that you`ll be using it for tactical comps and such and he will loosen it up to make sure you dont encounter any issues.

Im just waiting for him to come out with a 3-lug repeater.

 

[nicko]

Steave mine or my dads nor nates from short action Presicion nor richs are ceracoted and all four bind and there all melonited ...... But with that said our defiance rebel action is as smooth or smoother than my surgeon.... At the brawl this year it was so bad I cut a spare surgeon bolt knob that Tate steater had (he machines surgeons for them) shortened it on a belt sand and put it on my deviant because with the standard slick knob in a hurry it would bind and my hand would just slip off... I'm not bad mouthing defiance what so ever I' think there great I'm just stating my experience with the deviant action

 

[steve123]

Defiance must have done something different with the deviants???

There was a thread a year or two ago where there was a mod done to actions to eliminate binding issues. I had the link until SH switched over to this new forum format.

Maybe someone else knows who does it.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Defiance must have done something different with the deviants???

There was a thread a year or two ago where there was a mod done to actions to eliminate binding issues. I had the link until SH switched over to this new forum format.

Maybe someone else knows who does it.

SAC's website:
Short Action Customs Lower Bolt Clearance Mod

Thread:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-action-customs-alpha-11-action-lbc-mod.html

 

[deadnbrkn84]

Owned a 591r and now two Defiance Deviants. Run slicker then hell melonited, I can run them as fast as anyone with a Surgeon. The only problem I've had with the Deviants is they put a damn valve spring in for a firing pin spring. Take it out and put in a cut down stock remington. Mine ran perfect in the dust and silt at the Brawl, the dust then rain and ice at JC Steel. Never once an issue or I'd ditch it in a heartbeat. I love mine, but what do I know?

 

[student 86]

I have a 591 built buy GAP and have a Deviant buy Crescent Customs. The bolt lift is a little more on the Defiance but there is no sticking of any kind. Maybe moon did something to it before he Ceracoted it. They are both great actions but I will go with Defiance for my next build.

 

[mcfred]

Are you guys with binding bolts running them dry? I know people in dusty/sandy areas like to run their bolts as dry as possible so crud doesn't stick as bad.

There is a dry film lubricant version of ceracoat. Anyone tried this?

 

[Capt Academy]

I have a 591 built buy GAP and have a Deviant buy Crescent Customs. The bolt lift is a little more on the Defiance but there is no sticking of any kind. Maybe moon did something to it before he Ceracoted it. They are both great actions but I will go with Defiance for my next build.

Student 86, why will you go with the Deviant next build? What made it stand out to you over the Surgeon?

 

[high right]

Look at Bighorn actions, non better! Don't know the wait time, but super well done.
have two of them. first one is on it's second barrel, not a mark on the lugs.
Call A.J. at 303-655-8405

 

[Captain Kirk]

Defiance is one of the finest actions available IMHO. I have owned many custom actions with the exception of the Badger. Surgeon makes a fine action, although one of the Surgeons I used on a build did need a little work to get it right.

Kirk Roberts

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I know one guy with a defiance that doesn't seem to bind badly but the ones I've shot binded really bad. I'm putting together a hunting rifle on a manners EH1 and I was going to use a deviant until I shot a couple. One was melonited and he other had microslick.

The surgeons don't seem to bind badly as long as you run it right. With any straight bolt handle bolt bind is worse. The trick is to put your thumb at the top of the bolt knob and run it home like that. Gripping down the bolt knob will enchance binding.

A R700 action with a .698ish bolt is about perfect IMO. Not too tight, not too loose. Just like the surgeon, run it right and it won't bind.

If you want an action that you don't have to finesse then buy an AI. Wet, dry or packed with dust you can't hardly make them bind up.

 

[student 86]

Availability and options. I don't know if one really is better than the other but with defiance I have more options. I am left eye dominant and switch barrels from time to time. I can call Defiance and get a lefty Deviant with 223/308/WSM bolt and personalized serial number.

 

[Hennig]

I played with a lot of custom receivers before choosing the M2013. I guess I just didnt want something that felt so similar to a Remington when Im paying $1000+ just for the receiver. Happy with the choice so far

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I played with a lot of custom receiver before choosing the M2013. I guess I just didnt want something that felt so similar to a Remington when Im paying $1000+ just for the receiver. Happy with the choice so far

I really like the BO action as well. I'm a bit surprised it isn't more popular. Must be the heavy bolt of the 2008 turned a lot of people off. There was also the shenanigans where Gen1 and gen 2 barrels don't interchange. Another downside is they weigh ~10oz more than the others.

 

[Hennig]

Thats true, they are a bit more hefty than the alternatives. It does make you wonder how much of a difference it makes when everyone seems to be hanging M24+ contour barrels off them though (myself included).

 

[JByrd]

blonds brunettes reds. they all can get the job done and done well. ima surgeon guy cuz thats what i started with and theyve always done their job so i keep runnin them. there have been alot of reliable rounds sent downrange with defiance as well. pick one and go shoot. if it doesnt tickle your fancy drop her for a red head.

 

[Red_SC]

I played with a lot of custom receiver before choosing the M2013. I guess I just didnt want something that felt so similar to a Remington when Im paying $1000+ just for the receiver. Happy with the choice so far

Exactly.

 

[icu812]

I wouldnt overlook the BAT actions either. Forget the BAT Tactical actions from Wolf, just get the real thing. Yes BATs can be tight as a mofo as they are usually built for BR but you can specify to Mr Bruce that you`ll be using it for tactical comps and such and he will loosen it up to make sure you dont encounter any issues.

Im just waiting for him to come out with a 3-lug repeater.

I'm quite sure those are "real BAT actions" made in Rathdrum, Idaho just like any other BAT. No need to discredit Jamie, he knows his shit.

 

[Edds]

I'm quite sure those are "real BAT actions" made in Rathdrum, Indiana just like any other BAT. No need to discredit Jamie, he knows his shit.

I thought the real ones were made in Rathdrum Idaho.

 

[shadydiesel]

I thought the real ones were made in Rathdrum Idaho.

If you have a BAT made anywhere other than Idaho it's not real...

 

[icu812]

I thought the real ones were made in Rathdrum Idaho.

I obviously need to brush up on my state abbreviations. Thank you sir.

 

[Edds]

I obviously need to brush up on my state abbreviations. Thank you sir.

I'd guess we all need to brush up on something but your primary point was correct. I don't know why anyone wouldn't consider a BTA a real BAT. The way I understand it, a BTA has had the recoil lug modified so they will drop in a chassis built for a 700 and the bolt knob and nitriding is a standard feature instead of being an option.

 

[mariley85]

when the day comes for me to build my 338, it'll be a Badger action.

 

[jordan0317]

blonds brunettes reds. they all can get the job done and done well. ima surgeon guy cuz thats what i started with and theyve always done their job so i keep runnin them. there have been alot of reliable rounds sent downrange with defiance as well. pick one and go shoot. if it doesnt tickle your fancy drop her for a red head.

Shit, I'd like to bind up in that.......

 

[Gray]

Shit, I'd like to bind up in that.......

They don't grow em like that in Jville!! At least I haven't seen any...

 

[Gray]

I'd guess we all need to brush up on something but your primary point was correct. I don't know why anyone wouldn't consider a BTA a real BAT. The way I understand it, a BTA has had the recoil lug modified so they will drop in a chassis built for a 700 and the bolt knob and nitriding is a standard feature instead of being an option.

You answered you own question, yeah pretty sure everyone in here would like to have a action that will drop into virtually any chassis stock made. I run a BTA and they are like any other BAT, Super Slick and perfectly machined. This one just happens to drop into most if not all chassis/stocks.

 

[jordan0317]

They don't grow em like that in Jville!! At least I haven't seen any...

Hell no they don't, we gotta import em

 

[7stwlvr]

Surgeon uses a cast bolt with a stock rem 700 extractor (not that they are bad but there are better alternatives out there), plus add the fact that the bolt isn't timed correctly to the action (it doesn't cam properly for extraction). The Defiance is solid billet machined bolt, uses a mini-16 extractor and is timed for extraction, all improvements in my opinion.

That sure looks like a forged bolt to me. That is a surgeon action and bolt before machining. My cousin is a machinist as surgeon. Took this pic when he gave me a tour.


Sent from NSA wire tapped device.

 

[RTH1800]

The Remington extractor is less prone to failure than most if not all of it's replacements and maintains the integrity of the gas sealing. Never had one fail and all the 'improved" ones have failed me. That is one more positive for a Surgeon. I cannot speak to bolt timing. Mine simply work.