Rifle Scopes Advice on optic for AR-15

[varano14]

Hopefully this thread belongs here and not in the semi-auto section. If it does I apologize. But on with the question. I unlike most of my generation was not consumed with the tacticool AR craze. I shot a friends and while it was fun it wasn't super accurate so I build a precision 223 bolt gun. I still am unsure if I will really get into the semi-autos but with the prices being as low as they are right now I figured I might as well give it a go. So I ordered a 5.56 16in upper from PSA as well as a lower. After shipping and the transfer its still going to be under $450 so my expectations of accuracy are pretty much non existent.

Just to clarify this is only intended for plinking. I will not be staking my life on it, but I wanted to get my feet wet in the AR game and if I decide to move on I wont be out of pocket that much.

Where I need help is in what to put on top of it. I will be ordered a set of flip up iron sights but I would like something more. From reading a number of threads here most seem to recommend either a 1-4/6 or a red dot. I like the idea of the read dot but am concerned it will not be as precise of an instrument coming from a 6-24 scope on my bolt gun. The range I frequent has a small assortment of steel targets out to 300. They are all to big to be a challenge for a bolt gun off a bench but free hand AR they might fit the bill. So for that reasons I am leaning scope instead of red dot. I would like to stay under $300 again this is a budget affair and being a grad student I can't drop 1k on an optic. I went with an Athlon scope on my bolt gun because I felt it fit right in the price to features balance. I don't intent to only use Athlons scopes but from looking I don't see much else in the price range that offers the same features.

1. FFP vs SFP-I found a 1-4 argos btr that is FFP for 300. The idea of FFP seems nice as at 1 power the reticle seems to turn into almost a red dot. Is it worth it or a waste for my usage?

2. Reticle type?- I don't think I would want a BDC just because they likely won't line up. I would rather MIL of some flavor and be able to hold.

3. Anyone have a strong argument for a red dot?

4.Other brand/scope suggestions? I would possibly be willing to stretch the price if there was a compelling reason but would rather not because I still need to buy some sort of mount for it.

Thanks in advance any other general comments or advise are welcome.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

The Argo BTR 1-4x24 for under $300.00 is a best buy for sure (+ you'd get a special SH price), however, we do have 1 of the Athlon Cronus 1-6x24 - ATSR16 FFP IR MOA left in stock reduced to only $699.99 if you wanted to push the budget a little.


Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[varano14]

The Argo BTR 1-4x24 for under $300.00 is a best buy for sure (+ you'd get a special SH price), however, we do have 1 of the Athlon Cronus 1-6x24 - ATSR16 FFP IR MOA left in stock reduced to only $699.99 if you wanted to push the budget a little.


Thanks for the reply I wasn't aware of the special forum pricing I'm going to PM you for some details on how that works.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

The Argo BTR 1-4x24 for under $300.00 is a best buy for sure (+ you'd get a special SH price), however, we do have 1 of the Athlon Cronus 1-6x24 - ATSR16 FFP IR MOA left in stock reduced to only $699.99 if you wanted to push the budget a little.


Thanks for the reply I wasn't aware of the special forum pricing I'm going to PM you for some details on how that works.

Please feel free to give me a call, 516-217-1000. I am in 7 days a week till Christmas ;(

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[CoyoteKilo]

In my opinion, FFP is not really needed on a low zoom variable. At close quarters on 1x you arent going to need ranging abilities and when youre not on 1x you will almost always be at max zoom and able to use it to range. If youre using it for hunting purposes you might want FFP but why not take the shot at max zoom? 6x is really not that much magnification.

 

[koshkin]

If you can stretch your money and get a Cronus, you are in good shape. Personally, I am a mrad guy, but if you are OK with MOA, I suggest you call Doug. For $700, that is a raging deal.

Aside from that, with inexpensive scopes, I am a little leery of low range variables with FFP reticles. If the reticle looks very small at 1x, it needs pretty high quality illumination to stand out. That is hard to find int he $300 price range.

Also, I generally have reservations about exposed non-locking turrets in scopes of this type.

In the $300-$400 range, Burris RT-6 1-6x24 is becoming sort of a default recommendation for me. I am very surprised with how nice this scope is for the money. With the 1-4x24 scopes, I am still pretty happy with SWFA SSDM 1-4x24 and HiLux CMR4 1-4x24. None of the 1-8x scopes in this price range are worth it in my opinion.

If this is intended for general purpose plinking, I think your best bet is to stick with a low range variable. Red dots are a lot of fun for close range and for quick shooting, but for overall use a scope gives you more versatility.

ILya

 

[Birddog6424]

With the great 1-6 offerings on the market today, there seems no reason to own a 1-4 anymore. I understand some folks have different purposes for their rifles, but for me, if I can pick up a very good scope in the same price range with a little more magnification, I would do it. I live in some wide open spaces, I'm always pushing the range. And I found 4x lacking in the 3 Gun matches that we shoot out here.

As Ilya mentioned, the new RT-6 from Burris is a brilliant scope in that same price range. There is no need for FFP in a 4x, and it's still marginal in 6x. I personally don't see the need for it until about 8x.

Good luck on your choice.

 

[varano14]

With the great 1-6 offerings on the market today, there seems no reason to own a 1-4 anymore. I understand some folks have different purposes for their rifles, but for me, if I can pick up a very good scope in the same price range with a little more magnification, I would do it. I live in some wide open spaces, I'm always pushing the range. And I found 4x lacking in the 3 Gun matches that we shoot out here.

As Ilya mentioned, the new RT-6 from Burris is a brilliant scope in that same price range. There is no need for FFP in a 4x, and it's still marginal in 6x. I personally don't see the need for it until about 8x.

Good luck on your choice.

Thanks for the input the more is better in magnification was my attitude when buying my bolt gun optics. I figured I would rarely ever be dialing down its mostly going to be at max I will take a look at some more scopes in the 1-6 range as well as the burris mentioned.

What are your thoughts on the reticle type? Am I too quick to dismiss a BDC type as it seems the majority of scopes in this mag range use that type of reticle

 

[houndog]

In your price range I would second the recommendation of SWFA 1x4. I have two on AR's and have been very happy with them. Glass is good, they are pretty solid and they don't weigh a ton. If you want to shoot out to 300 at small steel targets, unless your eyes are significantly better than mine a red dot isn't your best choice. A 4x scope will probably get you there, and a 6x will definitely get you there.

I also have a Primary Arms fixed 3x scope that's pretty nice and in your price range. It's great for general plinking at 0-100 yards, but not as versatile as a 1x4 scope. Probably not the best choice if you want to shoot small steel targets at 300. Now if your content to shoot larger silhouette style targets it would definitely work out to 400.

 

[koshkin]

Thanks for the input the more is better in magnification was my attitude when buying my bolt gun optics. I figured I would rarely ever be dialing down its mostly going to be at max I will take a look at some more scopes in the 1-6 range as well as the burris mentioned.

What are your thoughts on the reticle type? Am I too quick to dismiss a BDC type as it seems the majority of scopes in this mag range use that type of reticle

I generally prefer simple mrad-based scales to BDCs, but both will work just fine if you pay attention and sight in. If you are not changing calibers all the time, it is not difficult to figure out at what distances those BDC lines work.

With RT-6, the holdover points are at 0.32 mrad, 0.96 mrad, 1.7 mrad, 2.76 mrad and 3.96 mrad. In practical terms, since you are mostly shooting out to 300, this is just about dead on with most 5.56 ammo. If you are shooting 5.56 pressure ammo, these holds just about dead on out to 600 yards with 100 yards zero, or at least they are with German MEN 55gr ammo I use for plinking. With my 16" ARs, it starts out around 3100-3150 depending on where I am and which barrel (I have four of the 16" barrels which is not enough for proper analysis, but enough to see trends; three from ARP and one from Fulton). I used RT-6 on one of them and the holds seem to be just right. I have not tried it on paper beyond 300 yards, but on steel they seemed dead on.

ILya

 

[z7.jled]

300 yds on 8" gong is possible with a red dot with good ammo and a steady hand (not bulk, cheap crap but stuff that your gun likes) 200 yds on an 8" gong is achievable standing with a red dot.

a 1-4, 1-6, 1-8, 2-10 or anything like that will get you on decent sized targets quite easily.

for rifle advice, get a good trigger, there are lots of them out there, but don't save money there. some stock ar triggers are horrible.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

You've got some good advice here. For a cheap, general purpose AR, don't be tempted by high magnification scopes. You'll be surprised how far you can shoot with a 1-4 or 1-6. Like some others have said, I don't see the point of FFP for low power scopes. As far as reticles go...I would never put a BDC on a bolt gun or precision AR, but for a gun like you're describing, I think they are usable. All other things being equal then get a MOA or MIL hash reticle, but I wouldn't break the bank just to get that one feature over a BDC.

I like, and keep a red dot on my 16" m4-ish AR. I've had a low power variable and may get another one eventually, but for me and for what I do with that gun, it's not worth the weight penalty. For some it is. I want to keep this gun as light as possible. You just have to define what you want to do with the gun. My gun is mainly for home defense/50 yards and in shooting. But if I need to, 200 yard shots are doable on anything 8"-10" or bigger. If 200+ yard shots were needed from this gun, I would definitely switch to a 1-4 or 1-6.

 

[varano14]

You've got some good advice here. For a cheap, general purpose AR, don't be tempted by high magnification scopes. You'll be surprised how far you can shoot with a 1-4 or 1-6. Like some others have said, I don't see the point of FFP for low power scopes. As far as reticles go...I would never put a BDC on a bolt gun or precision AR, but for a gun like you're describing, I think they are usable. All other things being equal then get a MOA or MIL hash reticle, but I wouldn't break the bank just to get that one feature over a BDC.

I like, and keep a red dot on my 16" m4-ish AR. I've had a low power variable and may get another one eventually, but for me and for what I do with that gun, it's not worth the weight penalty. For some it is. I want to keep this gun as light as possible. You just have to define what you want to do with the gun. My gun is mainly for home defense/50 yards and in shooting. But if I need to, 200 yard shots are doable on anything 8"-10" or bigger. If 200+ yard shots were needed from this gun, I would definitely switch to a 1-4 or 1-6.

I agree with just about everything you said here. I do not plan on this gun being for home defense for a few reasons. I have no experience with an AR for one and I don't know that I would stake my life on this cheap of a gun. That being said if after 1000 rounds and no issues maybe I'll trust it. To start I doubt I will have the skill to shoot gongs at 200-300, but I know once I do I will want to try. I believe they are 10 in. I have decided on a 1-4 or 1-6 over a red dot for now, I will also consider a BDC I have looked at some videos and they don't seem all bad. Thanks again everyone who offered advice. For once yall might have saved me money.

 

[Birddog6424]

I've ran BDC's on targets out to 600 yards quickly and easily for years. Inside 400 yards they are quite simply a piece of cake to use. Once you understand what the subtensions represent, as pointed out by Ilya per the RT-6, then they are no different than a mil scope. They are in fact, still a mil based reticle, they simply aren't on whole numbers.

Just like with a mil reticle, each line corresponds with a yardage. With an MRAD reticle on a 200 yard zero, 1 mil may be 300, 2 mils 420, 3 mils 520, etc etc. BDC's work the same way, just with slightly different values. They are really quick and simple to use and to be quite honest, I think people over complicate them. They think the bullet drop has to align with the subtensions at 100, 200, 300 yards etc. We can thank the military for that massive misconception.

With my Burris 1-8 with a BDC reticle I zero at 200 yards and aim dead on at anything inside 225 yards (worst case I am 1.1" high at 120 yards, 1.2" low at 225 yards), the first subtension at .97 is 320 yards. The second at 1.77 mils is 420 yards. The third at 2.76 mils is 520 yards, the fourth at 3.96 mils is 640 yards. If I need to be any more precise than that, I turn my elevation turret just like a high mag precision rifle scope.

Super simple. Fast and effective. I can roll through multiple targets at multiple ranges, quickly and easily without turret twisting or over thinking.