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Afghanistan

Re: Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ZLBubba said:
3/4 of America wants these wars and globe trotting over, yet we've escalated our involvement with no end in sight.

Maybe our "leaders" can justify why we're still there, but I sure as hell can't.


</div></div>
Almost every candidate from both parties over the last three presidential cycles has
been hawkish with foreign policy.

At some point, we may have to realize that maybe the most pro-military policy out
there is to say, "You brave souls have fought longer than any previous generation. You deserve a break. We will not send you to war unless our sovereign territory is threatened."
</div></div>


I believe there is one presidential candidate for two cycles that has openly opposed this war and further involvement there in the absence of threats to our sovereignty. Can't mention names over forum politic rules here. Oh BTW he wants to restore our Constitution too, well at least more than anyone else.

The reason why all other candidates have aligned their position is they for the most part are just puppets serving more-or-less the same masters, whether right or left. And those masters both make money from war and their ultimate goals are aided by any internal strife and dysfunction in both Afghanistan and here in the US achieved by our continued presence there. That's why we are there despite the articles such as the original post of this thread.

When our "leaders" lose popular support or the populace figures out their reasons for war don't make sense, an "event" will occur to keep us at war here, elsewhere, or both and again I'm not talking high prices as the gas pump, it needs to be an "injustice". I have no clue what/where it will be, but my hunch is it will occur before November. Wait for it...
 
Re: Afghanistan

It will be civil war when we leave. But not just civil war, genocide. Before the Taliban was ousted, the published a text in Pashtu only that described how they were going to send the Uzbeks to Uzbekistan, the Tajiks to Tajikistan, and the Hazara to Land of the Dead. The Taliban will eventually take over. It won't take long, but there are plenty of groups out there that will fight them. Many of these same groups fight us now. That is what I was elluding to in my previous post. What I have seen of our current plan is that we are going to support local groups to make our SIGACT numbers go down so we can justify leaving. What we are doing in reality is extending the period of violence after we leave till the Taliban takes back over. If we are going to leave anyhow, we may as well just pull everyone out as quickly as possible and without delay.
That of course will result in a MASSIVE IO win for Islamic fundamentalist terror groups and lead to our living in a much less secure world. Obviously I don't think this is what we should do. But to still win in Afghanistan is going to take a lot of change on the part of ISAF and the State Dept/Executive Branch.

And finally, many of my views on why US troops "mentoring" in Afghanistan isn't working (even though the concept is COIN approved) expressed by an SF Major, so now some of you might actually listen since he's all badass and ninja like...
http://&#8203;www.washingtonpost.com...mR_story_1.html
 
Re: Afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry about that!

Click

That aughta work! </div></div>

nope but if you put "how to get afghans to trust us once again" in the search it will.
 
Re: Afghanistan

Thanks. Summary on above link: the Taliban spreads the word that we are there to occupy Afghanistan and destroy Islam, the people there never heard of 9/11 or other attacks. That's why they hate support there, and hate us.
 
Re: Afghanistan

The only thing that will save Afghanistan is technology and education. The people are kept ignorant of anything outside of their border. The hatred between the tribal groups(Tajiks, Pashtu's, and others) is worse than what is found between an American KKK member and a Black Panther. These people hate each others guts and would rather kill each other than live with one another.
Even with education and technology though, the people remain ignorant because they are so deeply steeped in Isamic belief they are considered the most religious believers in Islam in the world. One cannot simply come into Afghanistan and change it over the course of ten years. It will not change. Tribal beliefs and ways die hard and have been taught from generation to generation for eon's and centuries. As a nation or a participant in any coalition activity, we will never do anything more to change Afghanistan than make a few villages or schools. What we have done over the course of the last ten years will simply go away due to the overall ignorance of the nation as a whole.
It is this reason why the Taliban so easily takes control and why Afghanistan as a nation will never congeal into anything more than small tribal based fiefdoms.
What we do is a monumental waste of asset, time, and personnel. Yes, we made some nicer villages with all the support of the PRT's and NGO's, but it does nothing to move the national ID into anything more than warlord holdings. even the local warlords are ignorant. When the underground river was discovered beneath the lands around Bagram, a water treatment and bottling plant was built. During the initial construction, the local warlord organized a protest based on'all the water running out in six months'. He had to be shown, and explained to that the river supported enough water for the entire country for the next century and more. Even after he was taught and shown these things, he still walked away believing 'his' water would disappear in six months. Is it ignorance then, or nationalized stupidity? What is it that makes these people happy to scratch out an existence on dry dirt, succumb to the five daily prayers, and tenets of an oppressive way of life, and die each day walking over the exact same lands where they see their children getting blown up by mines? National Stupidity, or just a way of life accepting ignorance? The longer I ponder on what I saw go on over there, what has gone on, and what can be done about it, the more clearly I see it is indeed a lost cause.
The obvious answer is to leave, keep in place an old school intel system of spies and other means of gathering intel, then using tactically placed individual assets to keep things safe for US. Do we actually think we can fix it in 50 years when every year something else happens to put the entire effort back four years(burning Korans etc, and yes, I understand this was by the book itself and had to be done, but damn, bring in an Imam to do it so there will be no issues!) Jeez, I ramble...good coffee this morning. A wee bag of a very special double roast of Ethiopian stuff...nice hot press, yeah....