AI AT Bolt Stuck 6.5 CM

[ACK]

Just got back from the range.
Brass Hornady
Bullet 140 ELD
Powder H4350
OAL: 2.693

Was working a load (average of 5)
40GR /2592 FPS
40.3/2652 FPS
40.6/2663
40.9/2673 (nice group)
41.2/2693 (OH CRAP)

At 41.2 the case yielded, and the bolt is now stuck (it moves a small amount). I have used 41.5 Gr with the 147 ELD without any issues.

I removed the barrel, no binding and the case is blown on one side.

Tried the mallet method on the bolt; it will not budge. Next recommendation?

Thank you and Happy New Year.

 

[celltech]

That charge and velocity seems mild enough...how many times have you reloaded that case? Time to switch to Lapua!

And I have never touched an AI so can't really help you there. But it won't even unlock with the barrel off?

 

[CIB2007]

@ACK, I wonder if you removed the trigger if that would free up something. Is it locked like the safety is on?

 

[ACK]

Trigger is removed. Barrel is removed. Very minor movement on the bolt. Sprayed lubricant everywhere, no joy.
This is puzzling. Don't want to go Neanderthal (yet)

 

[whatsupdoc]

Post a pic of the action looking into the boltface.
When you puled off the barrel where is the case?
Did the case head separate or is it still attached to the bolt?

 

[ACK]

Ok, this is fun (NOT) barrel came off very easily, case was on the bolt, wiggled it free. I may have found the issue, the blown fragment (or portions of it ) is under the extractor inhibiting the bolt's rotation. I am removing the skins, scope and see if I have better access to the extractor surfaces. Thanks to everyone.

These were Hornady cases with three or four loadings, all passed the "paperclip" test (case separation test. This is a new one on me

 

[ShtrRdy]

Okay, ..... yeah, ..... I was gonna ask of you could rotate the bolt.

What is the Extractor up against?

 

[whatsupdoc]

You need to first check the headspace on that rifle and if it comes back good then you need
to review your reloading practices to make sure you are not doing something wrong.

3 or 4 firings should not cause the case to fail.

 

[ACK]

Will do. I have gages and the AT barrels are prefit. I started with an AI AE back in 2000; reloading for rifles and pistols for several decades; never seen a case fail like this.

 

[Timo Turl]

Make sure it’s not something simple like the safety on the bolt moved / jumped to the position that locks the bolt closed.

 

[Criver600]

AI bolt heads are pinned and glued to the bolt body. Blowing a case can cause the bolt head to separate from the bolt body (sheared roll pins) get it to a "qualified" gunsmith or return to AI.

 

[918v]

Ok, this is fun (NOT) barrel came off very easily, case was on the bolt, wiggled it free. I may have found the issue, the blown fragment (or portions of it ) is under the extractor inhibiting the bolt's rotation. I am removing the skins, scope and see if I have better access to the extractor surfaces. Thanks to everyone.

These were Hornady cases with three or four loadings, all passed the "paperclip" test (case separation test. This is a new one on me

How much were you bumping the shoulder of the case? Did you measure the shoulder length before and after sizing?

 

[Bacarrat]

One of the reason why I don't use crappy brass like Hornady, Fed and Nosler. Way too many problems associated with them.

 

[Smithcollector]

What Criver600 said - I'd send it to Mile High service center. By "the case yielded" do you mean you have brass shards in the action? Yikes.

 

[deersniper]

One of the reason why I don't use crappy brass like Hornady, Fed and Nosler. Way too many problems associated with them.

If you could stop messing up my used brass market that would be great.

Lol. Selling brass makes my ammo cheaper

 

[Bacarrat]

If you could stop messing up my used brass market that would be great.

Lol. Selling brass makes my ammo cheaper

I wish! I do need some once fired LC 556 brass though. And have been using once fired Prime/Norma brass with great luck in my 6.5.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

If you could stop messing up my used brass market that would be great.

Lol. Selling brass makes my ammo cheaper

Ditto

 

[918v]

One of the reason why I don't use crappy brass like Hornady, Fed and Nosler. Way too many problems associated with them.

Hornady brass isn’t crappy. Your logic is crappy.

 

[Bacarrat]

Hornady brass isn’t crappy. Your logic is crappy.

Having load 308, 6.5 SAUM (first gen)and 6.5CM in Hornady brass, you can load published max loads which isn't all that fast and Hornady would barely last a couple of firings. Also remember people were getting stuck cases when Hornady brought out their .338LM offering a while back. Never my first choice in brass, it's just worth it to buy better brass.

 

[FreddyG]

Hornady brass isn’t crappy. Your logic is crappy.

Not crappy? The case heads are like butter. I have lapua brass fired over 100x and still going. Hornady is lucky to get 10. Usually I get problems like the pics below before they even get to 10x fired. Stopped using that garbage long ago.

 

[deersniper]

Hmm

Ideal for comps hunting and ranges where you can’t or don’t want to pick up brass

 

[FreddyG]

Hmm

Ideal for comps hunting and ranges where you can’t or don’t want to pick up brass

The last thing I want for competition or hunting is unreliable ammo.

 

[918v]

Having load 308, 6.5 SAUM (first gen)and 6.5CM in Hornady brass, you can load published max loads which isn't all that fast and Hornady would barely last a couple of firings. Also remember people were getting stuck cases when Hornady brought out their .338LM offering a while back. Never my first choice in brass, it's just worth it to buy better brass.

I load Hornady brass in 308, 300WM, and 6.5CM to full potential and the brass lasts 10-12 reloads. No it is not as durable as some premium brands but it is good brass.

 

[918v]

Not crappy? The case heads are like butter. I have lapua brass fired over 100x and still going. Hornady is lucky to get 10. Usually I get problems like the pics below before they even get to 10x fired. Stopped using that garbage long ago.
View attachment 7517198View attachment 7517203

You can find defects with any brass. I have a bunch of 1x Peterson 6.5 brass from factory ammo with loose primer pockets.

 

[FreddyG]

You can find defects with any brass. I have a bunch of 1x Peterson 6.5 brass from factory ammo with loose primer pockets.

Peterson brass is not great either. Hornady is one of the worst. There is nothing wrong with shooting it in factory ammo, but reloading it leads to threads like this.

 

[celltech]

I pick up all the free Hornady brass I can from my ranges and load them in my AR10s....to never be seen by me again ;-)

I have also been disappointed with Peterson brass from Prime ammo, case volume deviation was terrible.

 

[918v]

Peterson brass is not great either. Hornady is one of the worst. There is nothing wrong with shooting it in factory ammo, but reloading it leads to threads like this.

Bull shit. Stop this crap.

 

[FreddyG]

Bull shit. Stop this crap.

I posted pics. No BS here. The truth sucks for fanboys. The sad part is my loads in the above pics were mild. Not eleven close to max.

 

[Huskydriver]

I posted pics. No BS here. The truth sucks for fanboys. The sad part is my loads in the above pics were mild. Not eleven close to max.

K I'm not a huge fan of Hornady brass either but that first picture you posted.... That primer is so flat with a massive ejector flow..... That primer pocket didn't fail just because it was a Hornady case.... That primer screams over pressure

 

[FreddyG]

K I'm not a huge fan of Hornady brass either but that first picture you posted.... That primer is so flat with a massive ejector flow..... That primer pocket didn't fail just because it was a Hornady case.... That primer screams over pressure

It failed because of a soft case head. The load was a mild load, that the rest of that particular lot of brass handled fine for the rest of their lives. BTW, that same lot of powder/primers/bullets/rifle went almost 200 fps faster in lapua brass with not one problem.
You guys are welcome to use hornady brass, I like the OP, am just sharing my brass failure story.

 

[Kadams1563]

Can we get a video of you banging the action open with a mallet??? I mean it would be legendary.

 

[918v]

I posted pics. No BS here. The truth sucks for fanboys. The sad part is my loads in the above pics were mild. Not eleven close to max.

Like I said, sometimes you get a bad lot. It doesn’t mean the product as a whole is bad. I’ve been shooting this brass for 10 years and it’s fine.

 

[918v]

It failed because of a soft case head. The load was a mild load, that the rest of that particular lot of brass handled fine for the rest of their lives. BTW, that same lot of powder/primers/bullets/rifle went almost 200 fps faster in lapua brass with not one problem.
You guys are welcome to use hornady brass, I like the OP, am just sharing my brass failure story.

Your mild load blew the primer. Tell us what the load was?

 

[Huskydriver]

It failed because of a soft case head. The load was a mild load, that the rest of that particular lot of brass handled fine for the rest of their lives. BTW, that same lot of powder/primers/bullets/rifle went almost 200 fps faster in lapua brass with not one problem.
You guys are welcome to use hornady brass, I like the OP, am just sharing my brass failure story.

A mild case head doesn't explain the primer flow into the firing pin channel, ejector, or cup evidenced by your provided photo... again I don't use Hornady brass either hero

 

[FreddyG]

Your mild load blew the primer. Tell us what the load was?

48 grains of h414,110 Speer, cci250.

 

[FreddyG]

There was no brass flow into the ejector. There is a swipe, but it must be due to the case failure, as all of the other brass from that lot was fine, including no flat primers. The bolt had to be hammered open due to complete failure.

 

[918v]

48 grains of h414,110 Speer, cci250.

Factory chamber? How close to the lands?

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

LAPUA.
Spend money to save money, time, and equipment.

 

[FreddyG]

Factory chamber? How close to the lands?

Yes factory gun, way off lands. There is no conspiracy theory to be found here dude. I’ve ran thousands of lapua cases, most fired 50x or more. No problems.

It’s not like the internet isn’t full of hornady brass horror stories already. They suck period. It would be nice if they didn’t, but you get what you pay for in life.

Ironically the better more expensive brass is way cheaper in the long run.

 

[FreddyG]

It would be cool for the OP to post pics of this mess/damage.

 

[918v]

Yes factory gun, way off lands. There is no conspiracy theory to be found here dude. I’ve ran thousands of lapua cases, most fired 50x or more. No problems.

It’s not like the internet isn’t full of hornady brass horror stories already. They suck period. It would be nice if they didn’t, but you get what you pay for in life.

Ironically the better more expensive brass is way cheaper in the long run.

People don’t need to buy Lapua brass in order to run safe and reliable loads. Hornady brass is perfectly good and safe. To suggest otherwise is retarded. And I don’t believe your H414 story or the number of loads you get on Lapua brass. 50??? Please...

FYI Federal, Remington and Winchester brass are softer.

 

[FreddyG]

People don’t need to buy Lapua brass in order to run safe and reliable loads. Hornady brass is perfectly good and safe. To suggest otherwise is retarded. And I don’t believe your H414 story or the number of loads you get on Lapua brass. 50??? Please...

FYI Federal, Remington and Winchester brass are softer.

I don’t care if you believe me. It’s not like I’m the only one getting unreal life out of good brass. It does sound like you need to shoot a bit more to experience some of this yourself. Reading online only takes you so far.

 

[supercorndogs]

Not crappy? The case heads are like butter. I have lapua brass fired over 100x and still going. Hornady is lucky to get 10. Usually I get problems like the pics below before they even get to 10x fired. Stopped using that garbage long ago.
View attachment 7517198View attachment 7517203

Brass fired over 100 times ehh.

 

[isofahunter]

Paper cartridges are the gold standard.

 

[FreddyG]

Good grief. This isn’t rocket science. They didn’t anneal either. With annealing, medium loads, and neck sizing, the sky is the limit.

A new brass life test: annealing - Page 1 - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

 

[supercorndogs]

If I am being honest, there a lot more things than just the 100+x reloaded brass in this thread that makes me think you are spinning tails.

 

[FreddyG]

Like what? I don’t get the emotional attachment to certain brands people get. Who cares if something sucks?

 

[Ledzep]

Max published loads are in a clean pampered pressure test barrel. The load data is not watered down. Barrel to barrel variance in pressure, rifling geometry etc... Are real things...

That said. My experience with Hornady brass is that it's fine up to 60-63ksi. If you get low primer pocket life, IMO most of the time it's a sign of >65000psi loads in YOUR rifle. That being said my experience is mostly with 6.5 Creedmoor. Every cartridge is made on different tooling, maybe even starting with different material/condition and everyone has a bad lot here and there. I had some trash 260 Lapua brass once. So my statements above are generalized and I'm sure exceptions exist.

 

[918v]

I remember reading someone’s post in the reloading section where he talked about how he mixed IMR 4350 H4350 and that caused a blown primer. Maybe the OP did the same, unintentionally.


Maybe the OP should pry on the extractor with a screwdriver to try to get it back inside the bolt and maybe then the bolt will turn? I dunno I haven’t blown up a rifle before.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

This thread is lame with out pics