AI AXMC Negatives???

[chris514scott]

Ok I've decided to scrap my custom build and just buy an AI. I want to shoot 6.5CM for now but kinda like the idea of being able to shoot long action calibers down the road. Are there any downsides to buying an AXMC and using it mainly for short action calibers? I know the price is a little more but it seems like an extra $1k gets you the ability to run almost any caliber you want. Is there something I'm missing? Why would someone go with the AX308 over the AXMC? Thanks for any information guys.

 

[pucker]

One rifle = AXMC

Only way I'd start with the AX is if you have no interest in ever shooting bigger cartridges...or if you know now you can feasibly ($) just add the AXMC later as needed. You'll always want the MC if you start with the AX, but not necessarily the other way around. My 2 cents...

 

[samb300]

No real disadvantages other than price. The gun itself is $1k more, but I’m not sure that you can get it in 308 bolt (6.5 creed) from the start. At least with the lefty MC, 300 win mag was my only choice. So if the MC is $1000 more than the AX, you also have to add about $1500 on top of that for the 308 bolt and a 6.5 creed barrel.

The biggest downside for me was that the MC (at least to my knowledge) only comes in large firing pin. Since I shoot 6.5x47L and like small rifle primer rounds, the thought of having 3 bolts bushed was a no-go as well.

I have nowhere to shoot past normal PRS distances (1200 yds), so a magnum is just a waste of powder and $ for me. If I had access to a big stretch of land, or had the time/money to pursue ELR matches, then maybe I would’ve gone with the MC.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Ask yourself if you really want to shoot the long action calibers then if so, it's worth the extra $2500 you will spend.
If you don't think you will, then just get the standard AX which often times comes up for great deals (someone was selling one for $5k the other week).

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If you want one rifle to get everything done the AXMC is the way to go. I can't think of a disadvantage other than price, but when you start adding up the cost of additional high end rifles in one cal, plus an optic for, it gets really reasonable really fast.

With 6.5 Creedmoor you'll be good to go but if you ever want to shoot the really high pressure/bolt thrust small primer rounds like 6BR/Dasher or 6/6.5x47L you'll most likely need to get the firing pin bushed. Unless of course AI offers a small pin AXMC bolt down the road which you never know.

Make sure you order one of the new competition triggers while you're at it.

 

[Bradu]

Initial buy in is the only downside. Other than that it is a perfect setup, I wish they had this out when I got back into shooting. It would have saved me some money even though I still would have had to buy a desert tech eventually. Two rifles would have been cheaper than several rifles and scopes.

 

[mercracing]

The biggest downside for me was that the MC (at least to my knowledge) only comes in large firing pin. Since I shoot 6.5x47L and like small rifle primer rounds, the thought of having 3 bolts bushed was a no-go

Or buy one extra 308 bolt body and firing pin and have it bushed and only use it for SRP rounds.

 

[samb300]

Or buy one extra 308 bolt body and firing pin and have it bushed and only use it for SRP rounds.

Fair enough, but that’s still an extra $600 plus gunsmithing costs. And you’re also ending up with a non-factory (non waranteed) bolt assembly, where the pin is no longer as robust as a factory SFP.

 

[mercracing]

Fair enough, but that’s still an extra $600 plus gunsmithing costs. And you’re also ending up with a non-factory (non waranteed) bolt assembly, where the pin is no longer as robust as a factory SFP.

Still cheaper then some alternatives. If your only using it for SRP cartridges then robust shouldn’t be a concern.

 

[samb300]

Still cheaper then some alternatives. If your only using it for SRP cartridges then robust shouldn’t be a concern.

Huh? Small rifle primers = High pressure. Not sure why you wouldn’t want a robust firing pin assembly for those even if they’re short action calibers.

 

[TheOE800]

Heavy as fuck, costly.

 

[diverdon]

Disadvantage? No more excuses, hit or miss it's all on you.

 

[mercracing]

Huh? Small rifle primers = High pressure. Not sure why you wouldn’t want a robust firing pin assembly for those even if they’re short action calibers.

It’s meant as your using it for SRP only. Not 338L. Several very reputable people and companies will bush the bolt and turn the pin. It will void the AI warranty but I haven’t heard of anyone complaining the bushed bolt they had done had the firing pin break. Obviously they are robust enough.

 

[samb300]

It’s meant as your using it for SRP only. Not 338L. Several very reputable people and companies will bush the bolt and turn the pin. It will void the AI warranty but I haven’t heard of anyone complaining the bushed bolt they had done had the firing pin break. Obviously they are robust enough.

I just read on the hide within the past week or two someone had a bushed firing pin break on them after a few hundred rounds. It required buying a new pin to machine down, and crossing their fingers that it doesn’t happen again in a match or in the field.

I know the 30 and 338 magnum calibers have a lot more recoil energy, but the maximum chamber pressure is still like 60ksi, same as your short action calibers. In theory, the small firing pin would help - assuming the clearance between firing pin and firing pin hole is tighter. I know I’ve read accounts of people with AXMC’s not being able to push the magnums to what are considered nominal loads because there is so much clearance. Mostly I’ve heard that with 300 Norma mag.

I don’t have any skin in the game as I have an AX308 and have no intention of upgrading to the MC unless I come into access to an ELR range within very close proximity to where I live. But I was very glad when my lefty AT and now lefty AX came with the factory small firing pin.

 

[brianf]

as said before, if you never plan on a long action/magnum caliber get the AX308.
only down side to the AXMC compared to the AX308 is weight and slightly more nose heavy, but your prob not shooting off hand with a 17 lb rifle anyway.

although this isnt a real problem but once you buy a AXMC you will not buy rifles anymore.
maybe a ultra light mountain hunting rifle.
so if you like to buy and play with new toys your out of luck because there wont be much better anytime soon.

 

[Keyst0ne]

I considered the same last year and decided on the short action. Its lighter and barrels are cheaper and more available.

I don't have much use for a long action but figure if I end up with the need I can buy a LA rifle and glass for about as much as the AXMC premium over the SA + conversion setup.

 

[roamin]

Disadvantage?

Yes it's 15lbs naked.

 

[Primus]

Rifles like the AXMC have zero appeal to me. I would rather have 2 or 3 dedicated, setup rifles I can grab and go.

No dicking with barrels/bolts/mags
No dicking with optic settings, losing optimal zeros and NEVER getting true RTZ
I can take friends or family shooting, and we can all shoot at the same time
If something breaks, it doesn't render me weaponless. Have a trigger failure or an optic failure and enjoy your 18lb club
Lose the benefits of a light, more agile short action dedicated rig.
Get a dedicated hunting rig to take Elk/Deer/Bear
Price, Its at least $1500 per caliber, ON top of the $8K you just spent. You really aren't saving much money in the long run.
AI is still using shity keymopd (or whatever they call their BS). 2013 called, MLOK won.

AXMC $8000 (300wm) + TT 5-25/Mount $4500 + 2 caliber conversions $3000 = $15,500 at a minimum.

OR

JH 6.5 RIfle $2000 + $3000 scope/mount of your choice = $5,000 (Comp setup)
JH 6.5 PRC $2000 + $3000 Scope/mount of your choice = $5,000 (Hunting setup)
300NM ARC Mausingfield ($1600action+$1000Chassis+$300Trigger+$150 Barlock + $500 barrel) + TT 5-25 $4500 = $8000 (ELR setup)


I would MUCH rather spend a few grand more and have 3 dedicated rifles, 3 optics and each one setup the way I want it, and not a compromise.
No it won't have AI's trigger and probally won't be as reliable all things being equal, but it would much better suit my needs.
The other benefit is replaceable barrels. I spend $500 instead of $800+, making long term ownership cheaper the more I shoot.

 

[Bulldog Firearms]

I've owned both and still own my Desert Tech. Mags are better on the AI, but that's about it that I can say personally. Maybe the trigger now they have a competetion trigger but neither DT or AIs have a great trigger, not bad, but it doesn't compare to premium offerings for R700 stuff.

 

[Bradu]

Rifles like the AXMC have zero appeal to me. I would rather have 2 or 3 dedicated, setup rifles I can grab and go.

No dicking with barrels/bolts/mags
No dicking with optic settings, losing optimal zeros and NEVER getting true RTZ
I can take friends or family shooting, and we can all shoot at the same time
If something breaks, it doesn't render me weaponless. Have a trigger failure or an optic failure and enjoy your 18lb club
Lose the benefits of a light, more agile short action dedicated rig.
Get a dedicated hunting rig to take Elk/Deer/Bear
Price, Its at least $1500 per caliber, ON top of the $8K you just spent. You really aren't saving much money in the long run.
AI is still using shity keymopd (or whatever they call their BS). 2013 called, MLOK won.

AXMC $8000 (300wm) + TT 5-25/Mount $4500 + 2 caliber conversions $3000 = $15,500 at a minimum.

OR

JH 6.5 RIfle $2000 + $3000 scope/mount of your choice = $5,000 (Comp setup)
JH 6.5 PRC $2000 + $3000 Scope/mount of your choice = $5,000 (Hunting setup)
300NM ARC Mausingfield ($1600action+$1000Chassis+$300Trigger+$150 Barlock + $500 barrel) + TT 5-25 $4500 = $8000 (ELR setup)


I would MUCH rather spend a few grand more and have 3 dedicated rifles, 3 optics and each one setup the way I want it, and not a compromise.
No it won't have AI's trigger and probally won't be as reliable all things being equal, but it would much better suit my needs.
The other benefit is replaceable barrels. I spend $500 instead of $800+, making long term ownership cheaper the more I shoot.

$1500 per caliber is only if you have to buy another bolt. Barrels aren't much higher than a regular shouldered barrel. The keymod is pretty irrelevant for most people and is it really that big of deal lol. I'm not all tactitool so I don't need to hang a bunch of useless stuff on the rail ?

 

[Primus]

An SR-25 is a complex premium machine that is much harder to make, more complicated and more expensive to make than an AXMC. People will bitch about the SR-25's price (despite the fact they invented or had a hand in just about every large frame AR development in history) , yet a AXMC is twice the price. Riddle me that.

 

[Bradu]

Now you want to compare a gas gun. You are all over the place on coming up with reasons to hate on the rifle lol. Complex premium machine...that's the first time I've heard a gas gun called that hahaha

 

[deersniper]

Downsides are cost and weight. I went with short action. Don't have the room here to stretch past 800 yards.
I love the DT and AI rifles. Easy to change barrels and the DT at least is dead nuts return to zero after barrel changes.havent changed my AI barrel yet. Have a 6.5 and 16" 308 barrel to go along with the 20" 308. Shooter App keeps my zeros straight with different barrels and loads.

 

[LongRangeJunky]

I never get these threads. Why screw around with an AI? just buy a Desert Tech SRS A1 and you can have everything you'd ever want in a rifle. AI's are so damn heavy and long. Makes no sense to me at all. Just my 2 cents

 

[W54/XM-388]

A bullpup design will always be shorter than a traditional rifle design.
However the current AX rifles will pack down quite small if you fold in the stock, and remove the barrel / handguard.
Then the length really depends on what barrel you want.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Guys, the weight difference between the AXMC chassis and AX308 chassis (action, chassis/stock, bolt... everything but barrel, and forend) is less than 8oz. I have the exact weight written down from where I weighed them both the other day. The difference between the 16" forend tube that the AXMC comes standard with and the 13" which the AX308 comes with (including the top rail) is 2.4oz.

In the grand scheme of things, 9-10oz increase really isn't a lot when it comes to a rifle that already weighs as much as an AX. If you're toting either rifle around much you're going to be in good shape anyway. Most of us don't tote these rifles around at all and if so it's not far so weight is really a moot point.

Also remember that the AXMC is the same thing as a PSR minus the full kit right out of the gate. That rifle is made for, and fielded by military snipers who often carry them a long damn ways.

If a few ounces on an 18lbs gun is really that big of a deal to you, you should pick another hobby. I guarantee that most of you drag along enough extra unnecessary crap when you go shooting to offset that weight difference 10x or more.

 

[deersniper]

I carry mine around hunting lol. And you can't really compare an AI to a DT.
The AI is close to 100% reliable. The DT is not. DT is much better for vehicle use though.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Here are the exact weights for the two chassis/action assemblies:

AXMC 7lbs 15.2oz

AX308 7lbs 7.3oz

7.9oz weight difference. That's it. The barrels on the AXMC uses a slightly larger tennon but the weight are very close. I weighed my AXMC 24" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel and my AX308 24" 6.5x67L barrel and the difference is less than 2oz. It's still less than a standard finished 24" M40/M24 contour barrel.

A setup rifle weighing 18lbs is 288 ounces. Do the math. When this minuscule weight difference is mentioned as a "disadvantage", you know AI got the rifle right.


The DT's always coming up in these threads is always comical. Been there, done that, and wouldn't make the mistake over again. The OP never asked about a short and light hunting rifle and this is snipers hide, not LRH. Glad someone likes those things though.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I never get these threads. Why screw around with an AI? just buy a Desert Tech SRS A1 and you can have everything you'd ever want in a rifle. AI's are so damn heavy and long. Makes no sense to me at all. Just my 2 cents

I've got both and after running both in comps, well........I'd advise you to try it. Love my DT but it's not close to an AI for comps.

 

[LongRangeJunky]

I've got both and after running both in comps, well........I'd advise you to try it. Love my DT but it's not close to an AI for comps.

I have done several comps with mine. If I had a 10 round mag I wouldn't have had any issues. I don't live for comps so I really don't have have complaints. I shoot a lot and have lots of land to hunt and shoot on on my own so comps are my last consideration so I admit my opinion is probably a bit biased. I can see how some would prefer an AI if they competed often

 

[LongRangeJunky]

Here are the exact weights for the two chassis/action assemblies:

AXMC 7lbs 15.2oz

AX308 7lbs 7.3oz

7.9oz weight difference. That's it. The barrels on the AXMC uses a slightly larger tennon but the weight are very close. I weighed my AXMC 24" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel and my AX308 24" 6.5x67L barrel and the difference is less than 2oz. It's still less than a standard finished 24" M40/M24 contour barrel.

A setup rifle weighing 18lbs is 288 ounces. Do the math. When this minuscule weight difference is mentioned as a "disadvantage", you know AI got the rifle right.


The DT's always coming up in these threads is always comical. Been there, done that, and wouldn't make the mistake over again. The OP never asked about a short and light hunting rifle and this is snipers hide, not LRH. Glad someone likes those things though.

Sorry seemed like a logical suggestion given the short action/long action issue.

 

[Long Range 338]

For general shooting I don’t believe there is any issue. For comps there would be some advantage to running the shorter bolt and feeding reliability. Frank mentioned this somewhere, maybe in the podcast.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

For general shooting I don’t believe there is any issue. For comps there would be some advantage to running the shorter bolt and feeding reliability. Frank mentioned this somewhere, maybe in the podcast.

I highly doubt Frank said this, or it's being taken out of context.

I ran my AXMC in a few comps, two shooting 243, one shooting 6.5 Creedmoor. You don't notice the longer bolt pull at all, you can even short stroke it to the same pull as the short action but IMO that's not wise and is asking to close the bolt on an empty chamber. The difference is like 1/2", maybe less, I can measure but it's not much.

The AXMC feeds short action rounds flawlessly, exactly the same as the standard AX. It uses the short action AX magazines and a magazine adaptor that places the magazine to the front of the magwell so it's not a jump to the feed ramp like running SA rounds in a typical LA magazine.

I even mocked up some 6BR dummy rounds and few them from the SA mag with an HRD gear mag kit like you'd use in the short action and it fed them flawlessly.

The ONLY drawback to the AXMC over the AX308 for a comp rifle is going to be if you want shoot the small primer high pressure rounds like BR, Dasher, X47L and push them hard like everyone does to be competitive. Doing that you're going to pierce primers if you don't have the bolt bushed. Stick to large primers and/or keep the pressures reasonable and you won't have a problem.

 

[Long Range 338]

As I recall Frank was talking in the context of shooting comps using short action cartridges and it may have been due to small rifle primers as well. It was something along the lines of getting the right tool for the job.
I’m not knocking the AXMC, as I think it’s an incredible system. Personally my AXMC doesn’t feed the short action stuff as smoothly as the Long action stuff. I’ve heard that can be due to the magazines needing tweaked as they are hand made, I just haven’t bothered yet as the LA cartridges at longer ranges has been dominating what trigger time is available.

 

[Primus]

Now you want to compare a gas gun. You are all over the place on coming up with reasons to hate on the rifle lol. Complex premium machine...that's the first time I've heard a gas gun called that hahaha

A semi auto precision rifle is MUCH more complex and harder to get right than 150 year old bolt gun tech. When your AXMC starts reloading itself, come talk to me.

KAC is the brains behind the modern day large frame. Just about everything we see today, is because of them. They paid the cost of millions in R&D, including developing it with Stoner himself. Everything from the Rail system to ambi controls to an optimized gas system you can thank them.

So yea, a Precision gas gun is a complex machine, despite the fact you taking it for granted.

 

[Primus]

Here are the exact weights for the two chassis/action assemblies:

AXMC 7lbs 15.2oz

AX308 7lbs 7.3oz

7.9oz weight difference. That's it. The barrels on the AXMC uses a slightly larger tennon but the weight are very close. I weighed my AXMC 24" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel and my AX308 24" 6.5x67L barrel and the difference is less than 2oz. It's still less than a standard finished 24" M40/M24 contour barrel.

A setup rifle weighing 18lbs is 288 ounces. Do the math. When this minuscule weight difference is mentioned as a "disadvantage", you know AI got the rifle right.


The DT's always coming up in these threads is always comical. Been there, done that, and wouldn't make the mistake over again. The OP never asked about a short and light hunting rifle and this is snipers hide, not LRH. Glad someone likes those things though.

Says the guy who never humped heavy shit in a combat zone before.

Or was treking up the side of a mountain going after early season Elk, miles from the nearest road or other human.

 

[Bradu]

Aren't you quite the little KAC nuthugger lol

 

[pucker]

Says the guy who never humped heavy shit in a combat zone before.

Or was treking up the side of a mountain going after early season Elk, miles from the nearest road or other human.

Careful...redneckbmxer has been here a long time, and he passes some very pragmatic advice.

I don't want to get into a pissing match, but you carry a precision bolt gun in combat much? Your comment strikes me as fob-centric. Just sayin...

 

[Primus]

Careful...redneckbmxer has been here a long time, and he passes some very pragmatic advice.

I don't want to get into a pissing match, but you carry a precision bolt gun in combat much? Your comment strikes me as fob-centric. Just sayin...

My B4 section carried MK11's, the 24's were just to slow.

As far as me carrying ? Sheeeeet, Death before dismount.

 

[Primus]

Aren't you quite the little KAC nuthugger lol

Yea its not like the rangers , SF, Delta, and lots of other units you never heard of have been using them to dispatch the enemies of this nation for going on 30 years now.

Clearly they are garbage.......... Now tell us about your game gun and your lack of time on a 2 way firing range. Perhaps you can impart some meaningful wisdom in this thread.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

LOL I made the mistake of clicking “show ignored content” because I didn’t understand the context of your comment Pucker.

The ignore feature is a great tool guys, let the troll talk to himself. It will help you avoid the desire to run your head into a wall.

 

[Johnson184]

For real... I’ve got a SR25/M110... great gun but my Scar17 is right up there for a fraction of the cost. Oh and it’s also something that they totally invented and isn’t a “150 year old” design. Lol...

I’ve owned an AIAT and an AXMC. One day I will absolutely acquire another AI rifle because it left me wanting for nothing. Terrific lifetime quality purchases.

 

[Primus]

SR-25 is 30 year old tech, 70 years if you count the original work stoner did with armalite. Lets also not forget the MK11 or SR25's in service are a few generations behind where they could have been, had DOD adopted PIP upgrades instead of sitting on known issues. The Army asked for something, got it and then refused to allow KAC to fix the issues the Army directed.

And that is why designed based awards are almost always inferior to performance based awards. Instead of telling the contractor how something needs to be made, designed,ect.... Give them a problem to solve, and let them come up with a better mousetrap, or not even a mousetrap at all. I am no fan of the short barrel and carbine style SR-25's. The SCAR17 smokes it in every area. But in the LR configuration with a long barrel and something like 6.5CM, its a hell of a weapon system. You just can't wring the same kind of accuracy out of a piston system as you can a finely tuned DI gun.

SCAR17 ( Best .308 sized platform IMO, one of the last rifles I would ever sell, Love mine) is 10 year old tech designed after the US gov threw millions at FN to combine elements of proven systems into a new rifle. They started in 2002, with FN getting the nod in 2003, and it becoming public in 2004. The rifle did not become combat operational until 2008, and has seen many upgrades since then.

Give any top tier weapons designed 5 years and millions upon millions to hire engineers, experts and testers; they will come up with something good. Not only that, knowing you are going to get a sole source to manufacture the items at a healthy profit for years to come, is a hell of an incentive.

I have owned AI rifles as well, an older MK2 AE and an AX300 win mag (pre 2014). As robust as they are, I would still take a mausingfield or TL3 in a KMW or Cadex chassis any day of the week.

 

[deersniper]

Blasphemy.

 

[chris514scott]

Finally got to put my hands on an AX chassis today and was not impressed at all. Seemed VERY cheap compared to my J Allens. I really want an AXMC for the versatility but I sure hope it feels better as a whole system. Think I'm going to put my purchase off until I can find someone close to me that has one I can look at.

 

[Primus]

Check out the MPA , KRG and Cadex;s offerings.

The MPA is really impressive for the money.

 

[Jimgal62]

I have an AXMC Long Action with 300 WM, 308 Win and 6.5 CM barrels.

I run it in comps with 6.5 CM. No problems. With habdload it shots one hole at 100 yards.

I hunt with the 308 Win for white tail deer.. all DRT.

For Muleys and Elk I prefer my 300 winmag barrel.

I have other custom rifles but they are becoming safe queens.

 

[SLG]

Probably not relevant to the OP, but since the last few posts have been down on the AX... and for the record, I think very highly of all the AI's, from the MKIII AE and up.

I greatly prefer the ergos of the AT/AW rather than the AX. Specifically the thumbhole versions. I have a dedicated "ELR light" gun in 300 WM, set up for the 230 Bergers. It is an APA built Defiance, but in an AICS chassis. At the time, no 300WM's were readily available from AI. If I could have had an "ATMC" back then, I would have gone that route. As it is today, the standard short action variants do everything I need, so no MC for me. But boy I do like the AW style guns.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The original AW / AWM / AWSM rifles from AI with the folding thumbhole stocks, dovetail mounts, original barrels (and in the AWSM the heavily fluted version), are some amazing rock solid rifles that were great before everyone decided to go all miles of rails and forend.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I greatly prefer the ergos of the AT/AW rather than the AX. Specifically the thumbhole versions.

I agree entirely. I love the grip of the legacy skins, the flatter side profile was a little more natural on the hand and easier to index, at least for me.

I like everything else about the 2014+ AX chassis though from the butt to the forend design. It would be nice if the grip profile was the same as the legacy AW types instead of the slightly flared taper it has, but I make due just as well.