So just was wondering on a regular range day banging steel what is the average amount of boxes of ammo would you consider good enough ??
Advanced Marksmanship AMMO how much ?
- Thread starter scorpio 25
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It's going to be way different for different people. I'm fortunate enough to have my own range, and can shoot 3 or more times a week. For me, I'm more interested in shooting in as many conditions as possible than putting lots of rounds downrange. I have three moveable IPSC targets set up at various ranges (anywhere from 670 to 1630 yds). I generally fire enough ammo to confirm that I have the correct firing solution for the present condition at the various ranges I've chosen for the day, then I'm done. I save the ammo for the next day, when conditions will be different again. Generally only 10-20 rounds. If I had to drive a long way to a range and could only shoot occasionally, obviously I'd shoot a lot more than that per trip. As it is, once I've figured out the dope for the day and can consistently put rounds on my farthest target, any more is just wasting ammo that would be better used for the challenge of the next day.
Nearly the same circumstance as vh20. My targets are right out the back door. 650-1000 yards, various sizes and in different directions. Probably shoot 2-4 times a week and a normal session is no more than 4-6 rounds.
Since I am only home 12-15 days per month, I make each range day as special as possible.
One day I am doing dot drills. On those days 20-30 rounds is sufficient.
On another day, I am shooting steel from 200 to 500 yards (max for the range close to my house). They have different numbers of plates at each range so you can practice engaging multiple targets quickly and efficiently. On those days, 30-40 rounds is normal.
On group shooting days 25 rounds (5 sighters + 2x10 shot groups) is normal.
On .22LR trainer days 50-150 rounds is normal.
I am taking my first ever class in late July where you will shoot over 100 rounds per day. Never done that before. I find that concentration sometimes lapses. Don't know about the rest of you.
One day I am doing dot drills. On those days 20-30 rounds is sufficient.
On another day, I am shooting steel from 200 to 500 yards (max for the range close to my house). They have different numbers of plates at each range so you can practice engaging multiple targets quickly and efficiently. On those days, 30-40 rounds is normal.
On group shooting days 25 rounds (5 sighters + 2x10 shot groups) is normal.
On .22LR trainer days 50-150 rounds is normal.
I am taking my first ever class in late July where you will shoot over 100 rounds per day. Never done that before. I find that concentration sometimes lapses. Don't know about the rest of you.
That last line brings up a point we haven't considered yet. Size of the cartridge can have a huge effect on how many rounds. You can't keep your head in the game for near as long shooting a boomer, vs. a small-bore.
When I shot 3-gun Bullseye, I would do my Sunday practices with 100rd of 45ACP, then 100rd of .22LR. The point was to train to a point of adtual physical tiredness.
These days, I do occasional rifle training and rifle zeroing/load confirmation, typically 40 rounds per gun, which is about all we can fit in within a mid-morning's session here in the High Arizona Desert (4200-4800ft) before the heat climbs up to the ridiculous.
Early in the day because once it goes over 80*, my feeblies emerge, and so do the stronger, gustier winds. These past three weeks we have been gifted with consistent temps in the 100's here, and as high as the 100-teens, and a few in the 100-twenties up North around Phoenix, where the Ben Avery Range sits both hot, and down a lot lower, around 1100-1200 ft. These are big differences at the longer distances.
Within the past month, the Cochise County/Lizard Ridge/Dragoon fires have been visible altogether too closely nearby, we were smelling the (largely Mesquite) smoke daily for weeks on end. They're out by now, but there are others burning a fair bit further South in Douglas as of yesterday.
Shooting around here involves going further in order to do that shooting. Douglas goes to 300 meters, but is 50mi South, right on he Mexican Border, which has its own issues with ICE/CBP checkpoints and such, and it's always windy there. Our local pit reaches to 100yd, but the situation is quaintly primitive. Dragoon is the next town, about 15-20 miles away, with a pretty decent private(!!!) 100yd covered shooting facility.
But since the fires rolled straight through the area, there are a lot of sensitive temperaments, and the sound of shooting gets them going right quick right now.
Back in the Spring, one of the larger wildfires in adjacent Pima County got started when an off duty Border Patrol Agent started one of the larger fires recreational shooting with incendiaries. Dumb of the most egregious order.
It's overly simplistic, but right now the sound of gunfire equates to scares about evacuations. We all need to live with the 'ground truth' realities, whether they make sense or not
Greg
These days, I do occasional rifle training and rifle zeroing/load confirmation, typically 40 rounds per gun, which is about all we can fit in within a mid-morning's session here in the High Arizona Desert (4200-4800ft) before the heat climbs up to the ridiculous.
Early in the day because once it goes over 80*, my feeblies emerge, and so do the stronger, gustier winds. These past three weeks we have been gifted with consistent temps in the 100's here, and as high as the 100-teens, and a few in the 100-twenties up North around Phoenix, where the Ben Avery Range sits both hot, and down a lot lower, around 1100-1200 ft. These are big differences at the longer distances.
Within the past month, the Cochise County/Lizard Ridge/Dragoon fires have been visible altogether too closely nearby, we were smelling the (largely Mesquite) smoke daily for weeks on end. They're out by now, but there are others burning a fair bit further South in Douglas as of yesterday.
Shooting around here involves going further in order to do that shooting. Douglas goes to 300 meters, but is 50mi South, right on he Mexican Border, which has its own issues with ICE/CBP checkpoints and such, and it's always windy there. Our local pit reaches to 100yd, but the situation is quaintly primitive. Dragoon is the next town, about 15-20 miles away, with a pretty decent private(!!!) 100yd covered shooting facility.
But since the fires rolled straight through the area, there are a lot of sensitive temperaments, and the sound of shooting gets them going right quick right now.
Back in the Spring, one of the larger wildfires in adjacent Pima County got started when an off duty Border Patrol Agent started one of the larger fires recreational shooting with incendiaries. Dumb of the most egregious order.
It's overly simplistic, but right now the sound of gunfire equates to scares about evacuations. We all need to live with the 'ground truth' realities, whether they make sense or not
Greg
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I feel like I didn't accomplish anything if I don't shoot at least 40-60 rounds.
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I learn more from the cold bore shot than any subsequent shot. Some shooting days I shoot only one.
depends on what im shooting and more importantly WHY im shooting....
if im just out having fun.......ill probably go through 80-100 rounds of .308.........20-40 rounds of .300 win mag........if im shooting .223 or 7.63x39.....i can easily go through 200-400 rounds.
if im just out having fun.......ill probably go through 80-100 rounds of .308.........20-40 rounds of .300 win mag........if im shooting .223 or 7.63x39.....i can easily go through 200-400 rounds.
Precision rifle practice is 10-20 rounds 2-4 times a week at ranges from 300 to 1050 depending on the season and crops in the fields. 3 gun practice is a minimum of 150 pistol, 150 rifle and 100 shotgun rounds once a week during the season, about twice that during my spring pre season ramp up.
As a thought - the number of rounds fired should reflect the time dedicated to being tuned into each and every aspect of every shot. Shoot each session with a goal.
Yesterday was 15 rounds. The challenge - late day thermals, no optics / no meter wind calls at 550. Just look at the pine trees sway and read the direction of the wind based on which portion of the trees were moving - like a sundial; and watch the effect of terrain (shooting across a draw in a mountainous area) on the wind cycle - b/c terrain can alter or deny wind flow across the path of the bullet.
Yesterday was 15 rounds. The challenge - late day thermals, no optics / no meter wind calls at 550. Just look at the pine trees sway and read the direction of the wind based on which portion of the trees were moving - like a sundial; and watch the effect of terrain (shooting across a draw in a mountainous area) on the wind cycle - b/c terrain can alter or deny wind flow across the path of the bullet.
We saw our first soaking rain (here at home) since April, yesterday (Saturday). Friday we did a day trip up to Safford, and took Rt-266 up through the Coronado National Forest, past Fort Grant and on into Safford. There were smoldering hot spots for the full distance through the Forest, and along the backside of the same range all the way to North on 191 to above Safford. That geography is largely vertical, and the only way to reach it is with aviation, which takes a ton of coordination, and is also in very limited supply.
The trouble with the rains is that they're not broad storm fronts, and a lot of the rain actually evaporates before it reaches the ground. So a lot of the ground just stays straw dry, and we also see a lot of grass burns alongside the Interstates despite frequent signs asking folks to use their ash trays. It's still serious.
I'm just laying low.
Meanwhile, it looks like the VA is springing for some Cardiac rehab for me at a private hospital in Tucson this week. S/B twice a week. I need it bad, my current physical condition needs a good bit of work. With any luck, it may bring me back to being able to shoot in the prone position again. For me, that's a big deal.
Back to the original question, when the fires aren't an issue, my round count depends largely on the temperature curve. I'll bring 60 rounds, already loaded into magazines, or strippers, or whatnot, and take my time with each shot
When I finally break the sweat, I look around and think about whether any further shooting is actually going to accomplish anything positive. I got this thing about wasting handloaded ammunition.
Greg
The trouble with the rains is that they're not broad storm fronts, and a lot of the rain actually evaporates before it reaches the ground. So a lot of the ground just stays straw dry, and we also see a lot of grass burns alongside the Interstates despite frequent signs asking folks to use their ash trays. It's still serious.
I'm just laying low.
Meanwhile, it looks like the VA is springing for some Cardiac rehab for me at a private hospital in Tucson this week. S/B twice a week. I need it bad, my current physical condition needs a good bit of work. With any luck, it may bring me back to being able to shoot in the prone position again. For me, that's a big deal.
Back to the original question, when the fires aren't an issue, my round count depends largely on the temperature curve. I'll bring 60 rounds, already loaded into magazines, or strippers, or whatnot, and take my time with each shot
When I finally break the sweat, I look around and think about whether any further shooting is actually going to accomplish anything positive. I got this thing about wasting handloaded ammunition.
Greg
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I only have access to a 300 yard range. I shoot every week one day. I reload all of my own ammo so I usually take 50 rounds of 6.5 creedmoor, 200-300 rounds of .223 and 300+ of 9mm.
Not saying I shoot them all but I burn a lot of 9mm and .233 waiting for the bolt gun to cool down and me to settle down.
I usually shoot a group or two then blast away in something else and come back. My normal range session is about 5 hours.
I hate when people show up, blast 200 rounds through an AR as fast as they can pull the trigger and then leave.
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Not saying I shoot them all but I burn a lot of 9mm and .233 waiting for the bolt gun to cool down and me to settle down.
I usually shoot a group or two then blast away in something else and come back. My normal range session is about 5 hours.
I hate when people show up, blast 200 rounds through an AR as fast as they can pull the trigger and then leave.
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One month later, the Desert Monsoon has been up to full swing. Last year, we did not get anywhere near the full effect. We are still going to get some more rain, but it's tapering off so it now rains less than roughly half of the days.
Our rain gauge is telling me we've had maybe even as much as ten inches of rain in the past month. When it comes down, it comes down pretty heavy, and we can even get flash floods, and have issues with eroding side roads and displaced soil on the roadways. Arizona is not like Back East; over half the highways/roadways in AZ are unpaved.
The fires are history, and the burned slopes are greening up pretty consistently. Gotta say, the High Desert is not boring.
The Cardiopulmonary rehab kicked in past Friday, and will be mostly every Friday and Monday. We have to make it a whole day trip driving the 75 miles in to Tucson and back. Yesterday was the second session, and Hooboy, they whupped my butt. I love it.
Waking up stiff and sore, leaving the Wellness Center with tired legs and arms, and getting my heart and lungs up to the limit and holding it there is a refreshing change. I haven't worked myself this hard in nearly a decade, and it's easy to see that's what I honestly need. I'm all wired up and monitored, and the Center is smack in the middle of U of A University Medical Center, so if things go sideways, I'm already in the right place for that sort of thing. I'll be supplementing this with some easy home workouts in mid-week, so I don't go completely stale between Mondays and Fridays. We're also trying to get my weight back up to and beyond 170lb, so Ensure is in the daily regimen, twice a day.
I figure as long as I have the resources available, I should use them to the hilt. This is your tax dollars at work, compliments of the VA and the Veterans' Choice program. They could be using those dollars a whole lot worse.
Greg
Our rain gauge is telling me we've had maybe even as much as ten inches of rain in the past month. When it comes down, it comes down pretty heavy, and we can even get flash floods, and have issues with eroding side roads and displaced soil on the roadways. Arizona is not like Back East; over half the highways/roadways in AZ are unpaved.
The fires are history, and the burned slopes are greening up pretty consistently. Gotta say, the High Desert is not boring.
The Cardiopulmonary rehab kicked in past Friday, and will be mostly every Friday and Monday. We have to make it a whole day trip driving the 75 miles in to Tucson and back. Yesterday was the second session, and Hooboy, they whupped my butt. I love it.
Waking up stiff and sore, leaving the Wellness Center with tired legs and arms, and getting my heart and lungs up to the limit and holding it there is a refreshing change. I haven't worked myself this hard in nearly a decade, and it's easy to see that's what I honestly need. I'm all wired up and monitored, and the Center is smack in the middle of U of A University Medical Center, so if things go sideways, I'm already in the right place for that sort of thing. I'll be supplementing this with some easy home workouts in mid-week, so I don't go completely stale between Mondays and Fridays. We're also trying to get my weight back up to and beyond 170lb, so Ensure is in the daily regimen, twice a day.
I figure as long as I have the resources available, I should use them to the hilt. This is your tax dollars at work, compliments of the VA and the Veterans' Choice program. They could be using those dollars a whole lot worse.
Greg
50 or so rounds seems to be magic number for with a rifle. Pistol is about 100 rimfire and 100 centerfire.
If the wind is pretty consistent with no major challenges, 1-3 shots per yard line just to validate dope prior to a competition. If the wind is acting squirrely and doing interesting things, I'll save up and not shoot much up close, and spend 12-20 rounds at the 1K line for the practice in the wind. If I have a day off, I'll shoot the F-Class 3 x 15 at 1K so I can get 45-50 rounds down range for the wind practice at distance.
For a weeks worth of 3 Gun practice I will try to hit the range 3x and in total use up about 1,000 rounds of pistol, 100-200 rifle and 50-100 shotgun. For PRS type practice a range session will see 20-40 rounds of center fire and 100-300 22LR or 17 HMR.
Enough to know my firing solution is accurate and then enough to know I am consistent. Some days that is 10-15 shots, and some days that can be 50 when I am not on my game.
Enough to consistently accomplish the goals you set for the day. As mentioned above, some have access and time to shoot multiple times a week. Most of the rest of us don't.
I'm in the latter group right now. And, when I get to a range, it's short (400). So, what I do is shoot groups of five @ 100-400 and each group needs to be sub moa. Or, I go back and do it again. Like everyone else I'm evaluating what each shot is doing, or what I did/did not do right. Did I call the wind right? At only 400 yds. atmosphere isn't going to be a huge deal. But, the variations can be seen at that range. So, I try to get the call for the day within 2 moa first shot. We have varied 40 degrees here when I've shot, just this summer.
Each and every shot needs evaluation. The first thing you'll notice is if your position is off, you won't be able to evaluate. If you can't see the shot, you don't know what you did. But, you know your position wasn't solid, if you keep coming off target during the shot. Shoot enough to be able to hold your position through the shot and see where the bullet goes. Keep everything in position through the shot group as much as possible. Your evaluation of what you're doing will get a lot better. Dry firing helps this a lot.
I'm in the latter group right now. And, when I get to a range, it's short (400). So, what I do is shoot groups of five @ 100-400 and each group needs to be sub moa. Or, I go back and do it again. Like everyone else I'm evaluating what each shot is doing, or what I did/did not do right. Did I call the wind right? At only 400 yds. atmosphere isn't going to be a huge deal. But, the variations can be seen at that range. So, I try to get the call for the day within 2 moa first shot. We have varied 40 degrees here when I've shot, just this summer.
Each and every shot needs evaluation. The first thing you'll notice is if your position is off, you won't be able to evaluate. If you can't see the shot, you don't know what you did. But, you know your position wasn't solid, if you keep coming off target during the shot. Shoot enough to be able to hold your position through the shot and see where the bullet goes. Keep everything in position through the shot group as much as possible. Your evaluation of what you're doing will get a lot better. Dry firing helps this a lot.
Enough to get your training in, but not when you're tired.
Usually around 30-60rds .308/6.5
for fun, 100rds of .223
or
50 rds of .308/6.5
Usually around 30-60rds .308/6.5
for fun, 100rds of .223
or
50 rds of .308/6.5
Just enough to know i'm consistent and have firing solution for different conditions typical 20 rounds at best in a week.
I'll shoot two or three 5 round groups.
Then shoot about 50 with my 65creed, then 20 or so with my 6547, and 50 more with my 308. That's a typical range day for me. If I take my AR15 I'll send another 50 downrsnge. So typically 100 to 175 rounds and this will take me around 5 or 6 hours to do. I make it out about every other month for an open range but shoot one match a month that is around 40 rounds.
Then shoot about 50 with my 65creed, then 20 or so with my 6547, and 50 more with my 308. That's a typical range day for me. If I take my AR15 I'll send another 50 downrsnge. So typically 100 to 175 rounds and this will take me around 5 or 6 hours to do. I make it out about every other month for an open range but shoot one match a month that is around 40 rounds.
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I usually shoot once a week. My range is an hour away so I try to make it worth it. I'll usually shoot a 5 shot group to check zero. Then I'll shoot 20-30 on dot drills working on positional stuff and barricades. I can shoot out to 600 but it isn't ideal or easy so after the dot drills I'll shoot 10-20 out to 600 if I have time. So usually it winds up being around 40 total.
Forgot to add that I work at a sporting clays course with a a 200 yard rifle range. So in addition to above I'll usually shoot there once a week over my lunch break. But only 5-10 rounds.
Forgot to add that I work at a sporting clays course with a a 200 yard rifle range. So in addition to above I'll usually shoot there once a week over my lunch break. But only 5-10 rounds.
Depends on what I’m shooting. I can shoot f class all day. It’s pretty easy and an 18 pound rifle doesn’t kick much. Shooting off hand service rifle? I’m mentally beat after 40 rounds. Anything more than that is counterproductive for me. Steel buttplate .45-70 500gr loads? 5 is plenty, thanks.
I try to keep my range time structured. I usually come up with an informal training plan on what I want to work on. Could be positional, groups, data collection/adjustment, speed drills, testing equipment/gear, etc.
I then tailor an ammo count around that training objective. Quality ammo ain't cheap (I don't reload), I try to make each round count for something.
I then tailor an ammo count around that training objective. Quality ammo ain't cheap (I don't reload), I try to make each round count for something.
For precision rifle practice, my practice sessions usually run no more than 100 rounds. My local club has steel swingers and silhouettes from 100 to 890 yds and I'll practice prone on the small swingers which are around 1 MOA across, then I will use a tripod and barrels to simulate barricade stages and I will shoot at various heights and positions.
I usually take about 50 rounds to the range. But more it’s important that you have game plan for the practice session.
Pistol and AR15 style rifles.... how much money do you want to turn into happy smiles.
Higher power precision rifles... generally I find I'll be past my best before I hit 50 rounds.
Higher power precision rifles... generally I find I'll be past my best before I hit 50 rounds.
I do rotational work, so either 2 weeks on / 1 week off or 4 weeks on / 2 weeks off. In my time off, I usually shoot 2 or 3 times per week and 80-120 rounds per session just on the bolt gun. I usually do 20-30 rounds at 1000 yards, 20-30 rounds prone on the unknown distance range (200-700 yards) and the rest positional practice from 300-700 yards on barricades, tires, tan traps, trees, concrete, rocks, and cable spools. I typically spend a minimum of 5hrs at the range for each session.
Coming back to this, it's getting to be Spring and the frosts are becoming a thing of the past. My physical condition is better, but not at a peak. I have completed the Cardiopulmonary rehab, and now have a treadmill, so I can continue the physical regimen on a somewhat less formal basis. Temps in the shop are finally warm enough to work in there, and I've finally caught up with the handloading I need for the projects in mind.
I have one serious issue, and that's the fact that my shooting partner had a serious motorcycle accident back in January. He is out of play for several more months to come. He's expected to recover fully, but for now he's 2 of 3 months into wearing the neck brace (C1 fracture), and has lost 60 lb (which is a positive point). So I don't have anyone to go shooting with right now, but I'll be starting up anyway, sometime in the next few weeks
I'll probably go to the range during the days when its open to the public (not Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday), otherwise I'm a fat ole pigeon all alone with thousands of dollars in prime equipment, just about a rifle shot's distance from Mexico.
I look at the assigned ammunition, and it becomes abundantly clear that I have allocated too much. I need to work up a test plan and adhere to it, and probably over half of the allocated ammo will stay home, at least for the first go-round.
BTW, one of the tests will be with the newly released Hornady Frontier 75gr HPBT-Match ammunition, just in from Midway.
Greg
PS I just winnowed through the ammo I had stacked up for my next range trip. I got it down to 7 boxes of 20 rounds each, one boox per load. 140 rounds; that's more like two range trips to get it done right, so that's what I'll be doing. The stuff I reserved aside is about 4 times as much. Talk about going overboard.
The set-asides will still need to be tested, as there are six rifles/uppers to try them in.
Looks like my Spring is getting to be a lot more clearly defined. My classic mode has been one of trying to get too much done in one outing. Maybe I can cure that.
I have one serious issue, and that's the fact that my shooting partner had a serious motorcycle accident back in January. He is out of play for several more months to come. He's expected to recover fully, but for now he's 2 of 3 months into wearing the neck brace (C1 fracture), and has lost 60 lb (which is a positive point). So I don't have anyone to go shooting with right now, but I'll be starting up anyway, sometime in the next few weeks
I'll probably go to the range during the days when its open to the public (not Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday), otherwise I'm a fat ole pigeon all alone with thousands of dollars in prime equipment, just about a rifle shot's distance from Mexico.
I look at the assigned ammunition, and it becomes abundantly clear that I have allocated too much. I need to work up a test plan and adhere to it, and probably over half of the allocated ammo will stay home, at least for the first go-round.
BTW, one of the tests will be with the newly released Hornady Frontier 75gr HPBT-Match ammunition, just in from Midway.
Greg
PS I just winnowed through the ammo I had stacked up for my next range trip. I got it down to 7 boxes of 20 rounds each, one boox per load. 140 rounds; that's more like two range trips to get it done right, so that's what I'll be doing. The stuff I reserved aside is about 4 times as much. Talk about going overboard.
The set-asides will still need to be tested, as there are six rifles/uppers to try them in.
Looks like my Spring is getting to be a lot more clearly defined. My classic mode has been one of trying to get too much done in one outing. Maybe I can cure that.
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So I still haven't gotten to the range; and as things go, the projects continue to pile up. The acquisition of another Upper, and some new lower-midrange cost optics has added sighting in three Uppers, and the addition of another Upper to the ammunition testing chore list. This is growing like Topsy.
I'm now looking at what appears to be three (or more) range outings needed for completing the goals checklist. The ammunition requirement is beginning to approach the 'Dear God...!" stage.
Hummmph...
Greg
I'm now looking at what appears to be three (or more) range outings needed for completing the goals checklist. The ammunition requirement is beginning to approach the 'Dear God...!" stage.
Hummmph...
Greg
I do a lot of that, like 4 times a week or so, but I always shoot a 5 shot group after the cold bore, just to see where it is in relation. If I have time after that, then I'll start training for the day, usually accuracy based drills rather than precision. Typical day for me runs between 20 and 60 rds. I'll repeat that 4-6 times a week.
Lately I've been swapping scopes and guns a fair bit, so lots of admin shooting rather than serious training. Oh well.
Enough to make the long trip to the range (in my case 1.5hr one-way) worthwhile. I can expend easy 200-250 rounds in a 4-hour session, across 3 rifles, but during this primer crunch, I will limit myself to 50 per caliber or less per session. Usually go out 3 times a month.
