Ok, I really want a annealer, an AMP is what I want, but with a shell holder for .308, it would be just north of $1400.00.............for $1400.00, I can buy, over 1600 new Lapua brass@ $84.99 per 100............convince me that the AMP is a better way to spend $1400.................
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AMP Vs. New brass.....
- Thread starter Marinevet1
- Start date
I love (love) (love) my AMP. Use it for all four calibers that I reload, and anneal after every firing. I can do 50+ cases in about 10 minutes. And all without propane torches, or spinning disks, or other contortions people use (and hate). If you want to anneal every case, every time, there's no easier way to do it. I have no idea how many reloads I can get from a case ... because my AMP'd cases just continue to shoot flawlessly.
Stop crying about the cost. You got into reloading for tight groups and long hits. If you want to save money ... go pick up cans on the side of the road.
BTW ... buying all that new brass instead of annealing just means you're always using new brass and never getting the accuracy advantages of well-built and perfectly annealed fire-formed hand-loads.
After you've bought it and used it ... you won't be able to imagine reloading without it. (Trust Me)
I like using my AMP after every firing. Cause I just gotta have that rainbow color look on the necks. I mean it just looks baddass. My brass make me look like I torch my shit . And that I know what I’m doing when annealing. Especially when I bring it to the range. Like showing it off. In the end, I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing. I just let Aztec figure it out.
If you’re banging steel/shooting prs……you likely won’t see a huge benefit. This is coming from someone who owns most everything possible and I go overboard on my ammo. But not because I’m seeing some crazy good value when shooting steel.
Also, for shooting steel and prs, you won’t see much benefit in fired brass vs virgin. So don’t think the $1400 is going to be a huge increase in impacts unless you’re shooting F class or more.
Here’s virgin Hornady 6gt for example:
Also, for shooting steel and prs, you won’t see much benefit in fired brass vs virgin. So don’t think the $1400 is going to be a huge increase in impacts unless you’re shooting F class or more.
Here’s virgin Hornady 6gt for example:
The AMP is a funny thing, now after using one for a while, I almost couldn't imagine reloading without one.
Bullet seating is as smooth as can be and super consistent, every single time. Single digit SD's have become normal. Stacking impacts on top of one and other at obscene distances routine.
I'd rather have 300 pieces of brass that act nearly identically and seem to last forever, rather than 1600 pieces of randomness any day. It's about quality, not quantity.
Bullet seating is as smooth as can be and super consistent, every single time. Single digit SD's have become normal. Stacking impacts on top of one and other at obscene distances routine.
I'd rather have 300 pieces of brass that act nearly identically and seem to last forever, rather than 1600 pieces of randomness any day. It's about quality, not quantity.
I've got several hundred........>600 new brass........a couple of hundred that have been shot 3 times..........I understand that fire forming is a part of reloading, but isn't new brass like shooting factory ammo...........
Just get a annealeaz for 275 and put the rest of the money somewhere else
How can anyone type the word annealeaz with seeing the words anal-ease?
But seriously, if you want an annealer, the AMP is the buy once, cry once solution (and the only real option in my opinion).
I’m 100% with Dthomas3523 on this. Good equipment and good fundamentals will shoot well enough on steel/PRS without any annealling or with virgin brass or factory ammo for that matter, but if you are shooting F or Benchrest, you probably want more than “good enough” and should use an AMP for you annealing needs, IMHO, if only to save yourself the embarrassment of having to go out on the market for an Anal-Ease.
But seriously, if you want an annealer, the AMP is the buy once, cry once solution (and the only real option in my opinion).
I’m 100% with Dthomas3523 on this. Good equipment and good fundamentals will shoot well enough on steel/PRS without any annealling or with virgin brass or factory ammo for that matter, but if you are shooting F or Benchrest, you probably want more than “good enough” and should use an AMP for you annealing needs, IMHO, if only to save yourself the embarrassment of having to go out on the market for an Anal-Ease.
In the testing that I've done I haven't seen an ES/SD performance change from annealing. Virgin vs. 1x fired vs. 1x fired->annealed all produce about the same results for ES/SD over 30 shot strings. However, the average MV moves around.
If you tried mixing 4x fired and 1x fired brass, I'd bet you'd see a subtle increase in SD. Annealing would likely work to mitigate that.
My take is that the AMP is great for extending the life of brass, and is probably the most consistent commonly available method. If you load so hot that the primer pockets are toast in 3-5 firings, you're wasting your time annealing, but if you're losing cases to neck splits or noticing significant springback/hardness in the necks, it's probably worth it and you'll start losing cases to head separations over 2-5x the life span.
Figure what saving 50% on every case adds up to and how many you gotta fire vs. how many you lose or whatever to determine how many rounds it takes to pay itself off in extended brass life.
I could've bought 12 years worth of contacts for what I paid for Lasik. No ragerts. Same thing with AMP, Giraurd, etc..
If you tried mixing 4x fired and 1x fired brass, I'd bet you'd see a subtle increase in SD. Annealing would likely work to mitigate that.
My take is that the AMP is great for extending the life of brass, and is probably the most consistent commonly available method. If you load so hot that the primer pockets are toast in 3-5 firings, you're wasting your time annealing, but if you're losing cases to neck splits or noticing significant springback/hardness in the necks, it's probably worth it and you'll start losing cases to head separations over 2-5x the life span.
Figure what saving 50% on every case adds up to and how many you gotta fire vs. how many you lose or whatever to determine how many rounds it takes to pay itself off in extended brass life.
I could've bought 12 years worth of contacts for what I paid for Lasik. No ragerts. Same thing with AMP, Giraurd, etc..
To me, what you said is kinda sorta the whole deal with annealing: it's one more way to mitigate differences between cases/rounds.
Yeah, it may be "the final frontier" and about as far as we can go when it comes to uniforming cases, and may not matter much depending on the application: like if one is shooting a semi-auto and/or using mixed brass with mixed numbers of firings, etc.
But, when one controls what we can control: running good brass, all the same lot, same number of firings, uniform trim length, manicured to be as alike to its siblings as possible, then annealed every firing as consistently and uniformly as the AMP does it... it's fucking magic sauce. The rounds shoot the same every time, no surprises, no fluke, no coincidence, repeatable and as beautifully boring and predictable as we can make them.
IMHO the AMP can deliver a cumulative effect of both group size and muzzle velocity consistency that is unmatched by anything else, don't even need a chrono, can see it downrange.
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I guess since the AMP released there have probably been new records in BR or F-class at almost every event. No, there hasn't been you say? Hmmmm, might have to think on that one a minute. I fail to see how the AMP could be any more consistent than other automated annealing systems. I imagine its more consistent than holding it in a flame with drill, and counting alligators. But is there anybody who can actually quantify the results as better? I haven't seen it yet, and shooting events haven't shown it.
So can the AMP deliver "A cumulative effect of both group size and muzzle velocity consistency that is unmatched by anything else, don't even need a chrono, can see it downrange." No, I would call that statement total bullshit.
I haven't seen a notable increase in SD until brass is on its forth firing without annealing. So with 1600 pieces of brass, that would give you about 4800 rounds before you "need" to anneal.
Hmmmm, might have to think on that one a minute. I fail to see how the AMP could be any more consistent than other automated annealing systems. I imagine its more consistent than holding it in a flame with drill, and counting alligators. But is there anybody who can actually quantify the results as better? I haven't seen it yet, and shooting events haven't shown it.So can the AMP deliver "A cumulative effect of both group size and muzzle velocity consistency that is unmatched by anything else, don't even need a chrono, can see it downrange." No, I would call that statement total bullshit.
I haven't seen a notable increase in SD until brass is on its forth firing without annealing. So with 1600 pieces of brass, that would give you about 4800 rounds before you "need" to anneal.
So you have an AMP?I guess since the AMP released there have probably been new records in BR or F-class at almost every event. No, there hasn't been you say?
So can the AMP deliver "A cumulative effect of both group size and muzzle velocity consistency that is unmatched by anything else, don't even need a chrono, can see it downrange." No, I would call that statement total bullshit.
I haven't seen a notable increase in SD until brass is on its forth firing without annealing. So with 1600 pieces of brass, that would give you about 4800 rounds before you "need" to anneal.
I do (along with zero press, amp press, IDOD, mandrels from most every manufacturer, sac dies, 21st century lathe…..etc etc etc).
While the amp does increase consistency, it’s by no means anything that’s going to magically add a large amount of measurable value to most shooters. I can name several things most loaders can change that cost far less than the AMP and will have larger measurable increases in performance.
This is especially true for anyone loading into/jamming into lands. As that significantly devalues things like annealing.
You have a good point, the AMP is kind of the icing on the cake... and maybe one has to already be used to making really good "cake" for a while, already using top shelf "ingredients", before adding the AMP into the mix in order to really see what it does.
I don't load into the lands at all (these days I consider that "the old way" and IMO only really good for killing a barrel prematurely), for me it's more like .100" off. I also don't put too much credence in 100 yard groups and the numbers I read off the chrono anymore, because I've come to realize that for long range: that only tells half the story. The cumulative effect of BOTH good groups AND consistent muzzle velocities is what I'm after.
Seems to me like most guys shit on the AMP because they can't easily quantify it as being any better than what they already know with their usual 100 yard groups and chrono numbers. Though, if one plans on shooting further than 100 yards, don't write-off the AMP too quick.
The point I was trying to make was at distance you can really start to see it: I had great ES/SD numbers and was making pretty good ammo before I ever started using the AMP... but once I started using it (every loading/firing at that), I immediately saw a huge improvement. Did I notice an improvement at 100 yards? IDK, not really, but I don't care about that as much as some... at 1000 yards? HELL YEAH. IMO, past 600 yards, the improvement is obvious.
What it probably comes down to is that it might just be one of those things someone may have to try for themselves in order to see what it does.
Here's 10 rounds going back and forth between an IPSC and a popper at 1,250 yards from the other day, 9/10 impacts... since I started using the AMP, shit like this keeps happening on the regular (and I don't believe in coincidence):
Good perspectives. For me, it's about (a) simplicity, and (b) consistency. AMP is simple, which means I can use it every time without shopping for propane, or temperature goop, or whatever. And it will consistently anneal the same brass the same way every time. Ease of use and accuracy of result gives me the best chance at tight groups and low SD's. Oh ... and when I bought it, I was grossly overpaid so I could afford it. Now I'm retired and would have to think twice about the cost, but would still probably get one.
I think you have sold me on the amp..........I'm not concerned with groups at 100 yards to some where around 700 yards, depending on what gun I am shooting............north of 800 it's a crap shoot.....I am shooting an AIAT most of the time, and looking for that 1000 yard hit........
Thanks for the discussion..........we'll see what happens.............
To me? Any induction annealer with a timer, can do what the amp does without the bs of analyzing brass. When it comes to consistency. All induction annealers provide consistency granted they don’t break down. You just have to set it to anneal properly. And of course set the timer a 1/10 of a second up or down until it’s right for you maybe? But overall annealing doesn’t help accuracy. It provides longevity to the brass. So an Annie can do what an AMP does. Though waiting list on an Annie? Minimum 4months. Don’t know the turnaround time for an AMP? But it’s twice the price
Depends on your definition of accuracy (precision in this context actually).
If your definition is shooting .5moa, then no, it probably won’t help.
If your definition is shooting in the .1 or .0’s, and you want to do that without having to adjust things every loading cycle like the mandrel or bushing size you use to achieve this……then annealing helps.
