Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Looks very nice. Keep us posted because I am atually in the market for one.
Looks very nice. Keep us posted because I am atually in the market for one.
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Annealing Machine interest and ideas
- Thread starter jonaddis84
- Start date
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Just watched the vid, pretty nice!
Keep me updated with a price once you get round to it
Just watched the vid, pretty nice!
Keep me updated with a price once you get round to it
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Just some numbers for cases per hour...
There are 25 holes per caliber.
Low speed turns at 0.6 rpm, I had it adjusted to around 0.65 there for 308
Max per hour would be 900, that is if you make sure you fill every hole.
If you added hotter torches, max speed is 0.8 rpm, therefore a max of 1200 per hour.
I would likely sell it like everyone else does minus torches as standard. I could package standard torches in for a nominal fee, and I am still working on figuring out a torch setup that will be all flexible hosing on the bench routed down to your choice of tank below the bench. Having an EXTREMELY hard time finding torch heads that will plumb to NPT connections that dont cost over $100 a piece. So if anyone has any suggestions there shoot me a PM.
Just some numbers for cases per hour...
There are 25 holes per caliber.
Low speed turns at 0.6 rpm, I had it adjusted to around 0.65 there for 308
Max per hour would be 900, that is if you make sure you fill every hole.
If you added hotter torches, max speed is 0.8 rpm, therefore a max of 1200 per hour.
I would likely sell it like everyone else does minus torches as standard. I could package standard torches in for a nominal fee, and I am still working on figuring out a torch setup that will be all flexible hosing on the bench routed down to your choice of tank below the bench. Having an EXTREMELY hard time finding torch heads that will plumb to NPT connections that dont cost over $100 a piece. So if anyone has any suggestions there shoot me a PM.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Did I miss something on the video. Didn't see the cases turning color. With your set up how much time is each case in the flame. Definitly interested.
Did I miss something on the video. Didn't see the cases turning color. With your set up how much time is each case in the flame. Definitly interested.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I was just running junk cases through it to show its operation. They had already been through it a few times so they probably dont show much color change. I was also having issues with my torch heads (need to exchange one of them, defective).
Once the Tempilaq I ordered comes in Ill show a video of it running good brass.
They remain in the flame for about 5 or 6 seconds I think, by the end they are just in the outside part of it but theyre still getting heat. When I ran polished cases through it they were coming out looking nicely annealed as they do from Lapua.
I was just running junk cases through it to show its operation. They had already been through it a few times so they probably dont show much color change. I was also having issues with my torch heads (need to exchange one of them, defective).
Once the Tempilaq I ordered comes in Ill show a video of it running good brass.
They remain in the flame for about 5 or 6 seconds I think, by the end they are just in the outside part of it but theyre still getting heat. When I ran polished cases through it they were coming out looking nicely annealed as they do from Lapua.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I bought one of the expensive machines (the Bench Source). I kind of wish I would have waited, though the Bench Source is awesome.
I used to be anal with the Tempilaq and all that. Now what I do is pretty simple. I try to make my pencil flame the same length every time, which is impossible because gas pressure varies by temperature and my annealer is in the garage.
I go by two colors:
1) the color of the case directly after heating (I am looking for a very slight glow with all the lights off)
2) The color of the case after annealing. I have a bunch of sample pieces of brass that I run in the machine every time I use it to gauge for these parameters. When I am satisfied, I run all my brass.
I anneal every time, so it takes me almost as much time to set up as it does to anneal. It is probably the easiest step in the reloading process with a machine. Without a machine I wouldn't do it for two reasons: 1) I doubt I could get the consistency I want and 2) it would be too much of a PITA.
I bought one of the expensive machines (the Bench Source). I kind of wish I would have waited, though the Bench Source is awesome.
I used to be anal with the Tempilaq and all that. Now what I do is pretty simple. I try to make my pencil flame the same length every time, which is impossible because gas pressure varies by temperature and my annealer is in the garage.
I go by two colors:
1) the color of the case directly after heating (I am looking for a very slight glow with all the lights off)
2) The color of the case after annealing. I have a bunch of sample pieces of brass that I run in the machine every time I use it to gauge for these parameters. When I am satisfied, I run all my brass.
I anneal every time, so it takes me almost as much time to set up as it does to anneal. It is probably the easiest step in the reloading process with a machine. Without a machine I wouldn't do it for two reasons: 1) I doubt I could get the consistency I want and 2) it would be too much of a PITA.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
That is a sweet looking machine. I am also interested in one depending on pricing. Good work!!
That is a sweet looking machine. I am also interested in one depending on pricing. Good work!!
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Seems like you have caught enough interest from potential buyers
Seems like you have caught enough interest from potential buyers
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Im definitely workin on it guys, I need to finish up and graduate then I can put a lot more time and effort into getting the best prices on all my materials and what not.
Thanks for the interest!
Im definitely workin on it guys, I need to finish up and graduate then I can put a lot more time and effort into getting the best prices on all my materials and what not.
Thanks for the interest!
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I may have missed in an earlier post but are you planning including a suggested torches and other needed parts list so buyers can go to their local Home Depot or wherever and purchase the compatible/recommended items?
Might be nice to send that out ahead of the shipment so buyers can get that stuff bought so when your machine arrives they can be ready to set up.
PM me when you have these ready to go, I'm in.
I may have missed in an earlier post but are you planning including a suggested torches and other needed parts list so buyers can go to their local Home Depot or wherever and purchase the compatible/recommended items?
Might be nice to send that out ahead of the shipment so buyers can get that stuff bought so when your machine arrives they can be ready to set up.
PM me when you have these ready to go, I'm in.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Add a micrometer needle valve and the gas will be the same setting each time. This is the problem with the hand type torches.
A simple on/off valve with achieve this repeatable setting each time.
Add a micrometer needle valve and the gas will be the same setting each time. This is the problem with the hand type torches.
A simple on/off valve with achieve this repeatable setting each time.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Add one more to the interested list, I like your ideas of dropping them out of the table as soon as possible afer heating, and of course not dropping onto your gear box...I like the idea of shipping without torches, but making a recommendation as others mentioned, of a readily available torch, that folks can acquire easily, as said from Home Depot/Lowes etc. Setting up your holders for a torch that can vary a bit is a good idea, but heck, just make it work easily for a readily available torch from an easy access source.
How do you adjust the RPM's? Would buy one when you are ready.
Add one more to the interested list, I like your ideas of dropping them out of the table as soon as possible afer heating, and of course not dropping onto your gear box...I like the idea of shipping without torches, but making a recommendation as others mentioned, of a readily available torch, that folks can acquire easily, as said from Home Depot/Lowes etc. Setting up your holders for a torch that can vary a bit is a good idea, but heck, just make it work easily for a readily available torch from an easy access source.
How do you adjust the RPM's? Would buy one when you are ready.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Great job. Also interested in how much these would run if you started producing them.
Great job. Also interested in how much these would run if you started producing them.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Im looking heavily into torch options for this. The torches I picked up from Home Depot (Bernzomatic that come in a package with the fat tank) just dont have very much power, not sure why buy my old Bernzomatic gets WAY hotter.
I think that if I could package this with an excellent torch setup with a single metering valve, even if it ended up costing more, would still be a huge selling point for a lot of people. I could still obviously offer it sans torches easily as well.
Please, if anyone knows of a good propane torch head that will plumb into NPT let me know, I cant believe how hard these are to find.
Im looking heavily into torch options for this. The torches I picked up from Home Depot (Bernzomatic that come in a package with the fat tank) just dont have very much power, not sure why buy my old Bernzomatic gets WAY hotter.
I think that if I could package this with an excellent torch setup with a single metering valve, even if it ended up costing more, would still be a huge selling point for a lot of people. I could still obviously offer it sans torches easily as well.
Please, if anyone knows of a good propane torch head that will plumb into NPT let me know, I cant believe how hard these are to find.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Torch tips are gonna cost a bit. I use Turbo tips but they are from $50-$70. If you can make the general platform and maybe the mounts for a torch tip to set in and sell that as a kit it might bring the cost down a lot. Let the guys get their own torch sets to hook up to it, whether it be a map gas deal or a more expensive set.
http://www.faucetdepot.com/man-prod/Plumbing-Tools-Torch-Tips-0-263-128.asp
Torch tips are gonna cost a bit. I use Turbo tips but they are from $50-$70. If you can make the general platform and maybe the mounts for a torch tip to set in and sell that as a kit it might bring the cost down a lot. Let the guys get their own torch sets to hook up to it, whether it be a map gas deal or a more expensive set.
http://www.faucetdepot.com/man-prod/Plumbing-Tools-Torch-Tips-0-263-128.asp
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I agree... torch tips can get pretty pricey and it might take away from your selling power if the price is up real high
I agree... torch tips can get pretty pricey and it might take away from your selling power if the price is up real high
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
To adjust my torches to exactly the same each time I use a metal ruler like what comes in an adjustable speed square and set the inner blue flame to exactly 1" long on each torch, this assures they are set to the same temp each time and results are very consistent and repeatable.
Using the large propane tank keep the gas pressure from varying, regardless the temp the tank has enough pressure to run the torch to it max each time.
This is for the Vortex annealer though that stops for a couple seconds and each torch is directed directly at the case so no heat is wasted like with the ones that try to heat on the fly, getting consistent temps that are hot enough to anneal will require much more flame for a longer period of time on one of those as I'm sure you have found.
To adjust my torches to exactly the same each time I use a metal ruler like what comes in an adjustable speed square and set the inner blue flame to exactly 1" long on each torch, this assures they are set to the same temp each time and results are very consistent and repeatable.
Using the large propane tank keep the gas pressure from varying, regardless the temp the tank has enough pressure to run the torch to it max each time.
This is for the Vortex annealer though that stops for a couple seconds and each torch is directed directly at the case so no heat is wasted like with the ones that try to heat on the fly, getting consistent temps that are hot enough to anneal will require much more flame for a longer period of time on one of those as I'm sure you have found.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I need to get the tempilaq to find out for sure, but the tips I got from home depot in the kit with the fat tanks, I just turn them up as high as they will go and I think they will do 308 fine, so it doesnt get much easier than that, just turn them on full blast.
However for larger casings I will either need hotter fire or slower speed, so I may end up gearing down a little bit more to take advantage of the cheap tips, and the fact that you dont need to set the temp, just turn em up all the way.
Still kicking around the idea of using a PID and infrared to control this thing, as an ULTIMATE option available.
I need to get the tempilaq to find out for sure, but the tips I got from home depot in the kit with the fat tanks, I just turn them up as high as they will go and I think they will do 308 fine, so it doesnt get much easier than that, just turn them on full blast.
However for larger casings I will either need hotter fire or slower speed, so I may end up gearing down a little bit more to take advantage of the cheap tips, and the fact that you dont need to set the temp, just turn em up all the way.
Still kicking around the idea of using a PID and infrared to control this thing, as an ULTIMATE option available.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you explain to a noob like me what that means? </div></div>
My last comment in the above post?
A PID (Proportional-Integral-Derivative) is a controller, it would use a infrared non-contact thermometer and control the speed of the motor to obtain exactly the same temperature necks every time.
The issue would be making sure it didnt speed it up in between each case, the sensor would have to be lined up just perfectly so that there was always a case in front of it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you explain to a noob like me what that means? </div></div>
My last comment in the above post?
A PID (Proportional-Integral-Derivative) is a controller, it would use a infrared non-contact thermometer and control the speed of the motor to obtain exactly the same temperature necks every time.
The issue would be making sure it didnt speed it up in between each case, the sensor would have to be lined up just perfectly so that there was always a case in front of it.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Did some "for real" brass tonight, once it was setup, processed 170 cases in about 10 minutes or so.
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Did some "for real" brass tonight, once it was setup, processed 170 cases in about 10 minutes or so.
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Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Great job. If I can offer just one suggestion. I would maybe not have that second torch have the hottest portion (blue tip) hitting the brass. I think increasing the dwell just a little and backing the torch away just an inch or two.
Great job. If I can offer just one suggestion. I would maybe not have that second torch have the hottest portion (blue tip) hitting the brass. I think increasing the dwell just a little and backing the torch away just an inch or two.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Nice setup! I'm interested, depending on final pricing of course.
Nice setup! I'm interested, depending on final pricing of course.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great job. If I can offer just one suggestion. I would maybe not have that second torch have the hottest portion (blue tip) hitting the brass. I think increasing the dwell just a little and backing the torch away just an inch or two. </div></div>
Why do you say that? Just curious.
The video kind of skews what it really looks like while its happening, the piece of brass in the flame just starts to turn a dull glowing red as the flame transfers onto the next case in line, and theres just enough heat pouring over that other case to get the rest of the neck to glow very very slightly. To me these appear to be annealed perfectly. Im probably going to cut one in half and stick it on the Rockwell tester at school to confirm.
Its the only way I can get them hot enough at the speed its able to run right now. I definitely think Im going to step down a little further on my gear ratio or else Ill never be able to do my 338 brass with this torch setup.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great job. If I can offer just one suggestion. I would maybe not have that second torch have the hottest portion (blue tip) hitting the brass. I think increasing the dwell just a little and backing the torch away just an inch or two. </div></div>
Why do you say that? Just curious.
The video kind of skews what it really looks like while its happening, the piece of brass in the flame just starts to turn a dull glowing red as the flame transfers onto the next case in line, and theres just enough heat pouring over that other case to get the rest of the neck to glow very very slightly. To me these appear to be annealed perfectly. Im probably going to cut one in half and stick it on the Rockwell tester at school to confirm.
Its the only way I can get them hot enough at the speed its able to run right now. I definitely think Im going to step down a little further on my gear ratio or else Ill never be able to do my 338 brass with this torch setup.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
One thing I realized, and I dont know how I just now noticed, but this will not accomodate the standard magnum calibers as it sits (300RUM, 338RUM, and all those sized cases). I think I need to size down my large hole slightly, I cut it .625, and the 338LM is slightly under that so it wobbles a bit.
What Im thinking is since the larger cases will require much more heat anyway, I will alternate the outer large holes between .600 and .550.
Someone please comment here because I do not know the diameters of every case out there, but I think the majority of the rest of the cases out there are 308 based so they will fit in the .500 holes right?
Is there any other diameter I should have in there? The holes can accommodate a case that is about .05 too small, then it starts to just drag along it seems.
Forgot about this video, everybody likes to watch a CNC in action...
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One thing I realized, and I dont know how I just now noticed, but this will not accomodate the standard magnum calibers as it sits (300RUM, 338RUM, and all those sized cases). I think I need to size down my large hole slightly, I cut it .625, and the 338LM is slightly under that so it wobbles a bit.
What Im thinking is since the larger cases will require much more heat anyway, I will alternate the outer large holes between .600 and .550.
Someone please comment here because I do not know the diameters of every case out there, but I think the majority of the rest of the cases out there are 308 based so they will fit in the .500 holes right?
Is there any other diameter I should have in there? The holes can accommodate a case that is about .05 too small, then it starts to just drag along it seems.
Forgot about this video, everybody likes to watch a CNC in action...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hh4ZAUhW6X4"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hh4ZAUhW6X4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Nice vids
One thing i noticed is your second torch head seems to be getting cooked. The reason i say this is because of its discoloration. Is this because of the setup or was the torch head like that before?
Will it be a problem?
Looks pretty cool to me.
Have a chat with Tom on here, he makes the CNC blocks. He may be able to give you some advice on the hole size for .338 lapua / .300 RUM brass.
He cut a block for me recently that accomodates 338 lapua, .300 rum, 300 wsm and SAUM brass all in the one hole size.
Nice vids
One thing i noticed is your second torch head seems to be getting cooked. The reason i say this is because of its discoloration. Is this because of the setup or was the torch head like that before?
Will it be a problem?
Looks pretty cool to me.
Have a chat with Tom on here, he makes the CNC blocks. He may be able to give you some advice on the hole size for .338 lapua / .300 RUM brass.
He cut a block for me recently that accomodates 338 lapua, .300 rum, 300 wsm and SAUM brass all in the one hole size.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
This is really starting to look good and if you are still solid on your price point I think you could have a home run here.
Have you figured out how many cases per caliber you think will fit the multi-caliber plate and have you thought about making the multi-caliber plate interchangeable with caliber or case diameter group specific plates? Maybe as an option?
I'm thinking that if you were able to offer caliber specific plates that would allow the user to exchange the plates and get higher density (more cases)of a given caliber per rotation?
For example if the multi-caliber plate would allow say 30 pieces of .308 but dedicated .308 compatible plate would allow 60 pieces it might be worth it to some of us who reload larger quantities to invest in caliber specific plates to improve efficiency. Even better would be to figure out the similar case diameter groupings and then offer plates to accommodate.
Just an idea.
Also - any ETA on when you will have one available for sale?
Thanks!
This is really starting to look good and if you are still solid on your price point I think you could have a home run here.
Have you figured out how many cases per caliber you think will fit the multi-caliber plate and have you thought about making the multi-caliber plate interchangeable with caliber or case diameter group specific plates? Maybe as an option?
I'm thinking that if you were able to offer caliber specific plates that would allow the user to exchange the plates and get higher density (more cases)of a given caliber per rotation?
For example if the multi-caliber plate would allow say 30 pieces of .308 but dedicated .308 compatible plate would allow 60 pieces it might be worth it to some of us who reload larger quantities to invest in caliber specific plates to improve efficiency. Even better would be to figure out the similar case diameter groupings and then offer plates to accommodate.
Just an idea.
Also - any ETA on when you will have one available for sale?
Thanks!
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great job. If I can offer just one suggestion. I would maybe not have that second torch have the hottest portion (blue tip) hitting the brass. I think increasing the dwell just a little and backing the torch away just an inch or two. </div></div>
Why do you say that? Just curious.
The video kind of skews what it really looks like while its happening, the piece of brass in the flame just starts to turn a dull glowing red as the flame transfers onto the next case in line, and theres just enough heat pouring over that other case to get the rest of the neck to glow very very slightly. To me these appear to be annealed perfectly. Im probably going to cut one in half and stick it on the Rockwell tester at school to confirm.
Its the only way I can get them hot enough at the speed its able to run right now. I definitely think Im going to step down a little further on my gear ratio or else Ill never be able to do my 338 brass with this torch setup.</div></div>
I am just going off of the video. Since you are looking directly at it you have a much better vantage. Color is the way to go. I was just saying that as you start using a higher heat (closer to the tip) the dwell time has to be more precise as the difference between annealing temp and flame temp are further apart.
IMHO I think the generic plate is still the best idea as the difference of 5 minutes to do 150 instead of say 2.5 minutes would not matter as much as having something more versatile. My reasoning is that I think you may have a couple people or even a few that "go in" on a machine to use between them to save a little money. Don't short change yourself on price either, as your time should be worth money and burning yourself out making $10 a machine may mean less of them around if you know what I mean. I think you have a very marketable product and it seems very well made.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great job. If I can offer just one suggestion. I would maybe not have that second torch have the hottest portion (blue tip) hitting the brass. I think increasing the dwell just a little and backing the torch away just an inch or two. </div></div>
Why do you say that? Just curious.
The video kind of skews what it really looks like while its happening, the piece of brass in the flame just starts to turn a dull glowing red as the flame transfers onto the next case in line, and theres just enough heat pouring over that other case to get the rest of the neck to glow very very slightly. To me these appear to be annealed perfectly. Im probably going to cut one in half and stick it on the Rockwell tester at school to confirm.
Its the only way I can get them hot enough at the speed its able to run right now. I definitely think Im going to step down a little further on my gear ratio or else Ill never be able to do my 338 brass with this torch setup.</div></div>
I am just going off of the video. Since you are looking directly at it you have a much better vantage. Color is the way to go. I was just saying that as you start using a higher heat (closer to the tip) the dwell time has to be more precise as the difference between annealing temp and flame temp are further apart.
IMHO I think the generic plate is still the best idea as the difference of 5 minutes to do 150 instead of say 2.5 minutes would not matter as much as having something more versatile. My reasoning is that I think you may have a couple people or even a few that "go in" on a machine to use between them to save a little money. Don't short change yourself on price either, as your time should be worth money and burning yourself out making $10 a machine may mean less of them around if you know what I mean. I think you have a very marketable product and it seems very well made.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Forgot to add. You may even try some extra large holes that you could use individual drop in tubes of different internal diameter to "adapt" to any individual case. Running adapters would be a hell of a lot faster on a lathe than making unique upper plates and could easily cover any conceivable caliber including .50 BMG. I think if you leave the .50 customers off you will alienate a large market.
Forgot to add. You may even try some extra large holes that you could use individual drop in tubes of different internal diameter to "adapt" to any individual case. Running adapters would be a hell of a lot faster on a lathe than making unique upper plates and could easily cover any conceivable caliber including .50 BMG. I think if you leave the .50 customers off you will alienate a large market.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Looks real good, but those cases in the video are WAY to hot, they are almost to hot by the time they get to the second torch and are way past to hot before they get out of the second torch and drop off the plate.
Looks real good, but those cases in the video are WAY to hot, they are almost to hot by the time they get to the second torch and are way past to hot before they get out of the second torch and drop off the plate.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks real good, but those cases in the video are WAY to hot, they are almost to hot by the time they get to the second torch and are way past to hot before they get out of the second torch and drop off the plate. </div></div>
No...theyre not
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks real good, but those cases in the video are WAY to hot, they are almost to hot by the time they get to the second torch and are way past to hot before they get out of the second torch and drop off the plate. </div></div>
No...theyre not
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot to add. You may even try some extra large holes that you could use individual drop in tubes of different internal diameter to "adapt" to any individual case. Running adapters would be a hell of a lot faster on a lathe than making unique upper plates and could easily cover any conceivable caliber including .50 BMG. I think if you leave the .50 customers off you will alienate a large market. </div></div>
I had thought of the bushing idea originally, but that would end up costing way more. Theres no way I could include all the busings you would need, and Id have to charge probably $50 for a set of bushings (think hornady comparators, 6 for ~$20 I think, this has 25 holes), and no one would want to spend $50 PER caliber extra.
I would definitely offer the 50 plate extra, but there would likely be some modification to be able to get them hot enough also, whether that be using MAPP torches, or adding a third torch.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot to add. You may even try some extra large holes that you could use individual drop in tubes of different internal diameter to "adapt" to any individual case. Running adapters would be a hell of a lot faster on a lathe than making unique upper plates and could easily cover any conceivable caliber including .50 BMG. I think if you leave the .50 customers off you will alienate a large market. </div></div>
I had thought of the bushing idea originally, but that would end up costing way more. Theres no way I could include all the busings you would need, and Id have to charge probably $50 for a set of bushings (think hornady comparators, 6 for ~$20 I think, this has 25 holes), and no one would want to spend $50 PER caliber extra.
I would definitely offer the 50 plate extra, but there would likely be some modification to be able to get them hot enough also, whether that be using MAPP torches, or adding a third torch.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
If you guys that have interest want one as it is right now I will look into a price quickly, but Im not entirely happy with the design as of yet so it could be a few months before its to the point where I want to market it.
If there was enough interest to do a first run of this beta model, 15-20 of them at a reduced price I would be willing to do that.
Looking at what Ive got here, unfortunately there is no way Im going to be able to stick to my goal of $300. I will have $200+ in material and machining depending on the volume of the order. That does not include the gear train or my labor to assemble either. But if I could do a group buy I may be able to keep it in the sub $400 hopefully.
When I started this project I really had no idea how involved it was going to end up being, so my price goal was sort of optimistic.
If you guys that have interest want one as it is right now I will look into a price quickly, but Im not entirely happy with the design as of yet so it could be a few months before its to the point where I want to market it.
If there was enough interest to do a first run of this beta model, 15-20 of them at a reduced price I would be willing to do that.
Looking at what Ive got here, unfortunately there is no way Im going to be able to stick to my goal of $300. I will have $200+ in material and machining depending on the volume of the order. That does not include the gear train or my labor to assemble either. But if I could do a group buy I may be able to keep it in the sub $400 hopefully.
When I started this project I really had no idea how involved it was going to end up being, so my price goal was sort of optimistic.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I'd be inn for one of the beta units as long as it will handle .223, .308 and .338LM.
Also - what would your policy be for the early beta testers once your final design was coming to market? Would we be able to upgrade for a reduced charge or exchange the beta unit for the final version?
PM me a cost and how you want to get paid, also the ETA for delivery too.
Thanks!
I'd be inn for one of the beta units as long as it will handle .223, .308 and .338LM.
Also - what would your policy be for the early beta testers once your final design was coming to market? Would we be able to upgrade for a reduced charge or exchange the beta unit for the final version?
PM me a cost and how you want to get paid, also the ETA for delivery too.
Thanks!
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Here is why the .50 market is a good move.
Giraud trimmer for .50 $625
good press like a Hollywood $1,200
full set of dies over $1.000
basic set of brass tools $500
1,000 pieces of brass? $300 to $1,000 depending on brass
I won't go on but you can see a nice annealer would be an easy addition to the "necessities"
I need that trimmer.
Here is why the .50 market is a good move.
Giraud trimmer for .50 $625
good press like a Hollywood $1,200
full set of dies over $1.000
basic set of brass tools $500
1,000 pieces of brass? $300 to $1,000 depending on brass
I won't go on but you can see a nice annealer would be an easy addition to the "necessities"
I need that trimmer.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks real good, but those cases in the video are WAY to hot, they are almost to hot by the time they get to the second torch and are way past to hot before they get out of the second torch and drop off the plate. </div></div>
No...theyre not</div></div>
It's your brass do as you please but once it turns orange and glows like that even for a split second much less for as long as the brass in the video did it' lost any spring back it had and is now to soft for consistent neck tension, only trying to help not knock your work.
You'll see when you get some tempilaq, that flame is so hot it will burn the tempilaq off before it ever gets a chance to melt, the brass is excedding 700* way to early and way to long.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EWP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks real good, but those cases in the video are WAY to hot, they are almost to hot by the time they get to the second torch and are way past to hot before they get out of the second torch and drop off the plate. </div></div>
No...theyre not</div></div>
It's your brass do as you please but once it turns orange and glows like that even for a split second much less for as long as the brass in the video did it' lost any spring back it had and is now to soft for consistent neck tension, only trying to help not knock your work.
You'll see when you get some tempilaq, that flame is so hot it will burn the tempilaq off before it ever gets a chance to melt, the brass is excedding 700* way to early and way to long.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
I think the video is quite deceiving. The brass does not glow at all while it is being directly heated by the flame, let alone already glowing after the first torch as you say.
It only begins to show a very slight hint of dull red (and only in the dark) once the torch moves to the next case and there is just some flame folding over that case.
I promise you these are not over annealed, trust me I would not have just knowingly ruined 175 out of my 200 lapua 308 cases without testing on over 100 already junked casings.
Edit: Yes, after watching the videos again, dont pay any attention to the dark room videos unless you know exactly what you are looking for. The bright orange flame pouring over the neck makes it look like the case is glowing, but if you look at the daylight video you can obviously tell that is not happening, and if you have experience annealing you also know there is no way it would be glowing in such a short amount of time. It takes direct heat for 5-6 seconds on a rotating case to properly anneal it.
I think the video is quite deceiving. The brass does not glow at all while it is being directly heated by the flame, let alone already glowing after the first torch as you say.
It only begins to show a very slight hint of dull red (and only in the dark) once the torch moves to the next case and there is just some flame folding over that case.
I promise you these are not over annealed, trust me I would not have just knowingly ruined 175 out of my 200 lapua 308 cases without testing on over 100 already junked casings.
Edit: Yes, after watching the videos again, dont pay any attention to the dark room videos unless you know exactly what you are looking for. The bright orange flame pouring over the neck makes it look like the case is glowing, but if you look at the daylight video you can obviously tell that is not happening, and if you have experience annealing you also know there is no way it would be glowing in such a short amount of time. It takes direct heat for 5-6 seconds on a rotating case to properly anneal it.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is why the .50 market is a good move.
Giraud trimmer for .50 $625
good press like a Hollywood $1,200
full set of dies over $1.000
basic set of brass tools $500
1,000 pieces of brass? $300 to $1,000 depending on brass
I won't go on but you can see a nice annealer would be an easy addition to the "necessities"
I need that trimmer.
</div></div>
Ill need someone to send me some BMG brass eventually to do some testing, I only have the one dummy round. Im sure it will either require three torches, or I think it would make more sense just to use MAPP instead with the dual setup it has now.
I think no matter what its going to need to be an additional top plate, it literally takes 5 seconds to remove the plate with the single allen screw. It would probably be something like a $75 option or so, not totally sure yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is why the .50 market is a good move.
Giraud trimmer for .50 $625
good press like a Hollywood $1,200
full set of dies over $1.000
basic set of brass tools $500
1,000 pieces of brass? $300 to $1,000 depending on brass
I won't go on but you can see a nice annealer would be an easy addition to the "necessities"
I need that trimmer.
Ill need someone to send me some BMG brass eventually to do some testing, I only have the one dummy round. Im sure it will either require three torches, or I think it would make more sense just to use MAPP instead with the dual setup it has now.
I think no matter what its going to need to be an additional top plate, it literally takes 5 seconds to remove the plate with the single allen screw. It would probably be something like a $75 option or so, not totally sure yet.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEGA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be in for one of the beta units as long as it will handle .223, .308 and .338LM.
Also - what would your policy be for the early beta testers once your final design was coming to market? Would we be able to upgrade for a reduced charge or exchange the beta unit for the final version?
PM me a cost and how you want to get paid, also the ETA for delivery too.
Thanks! </div></div>
+1 on this. Please PM the price etc.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEGA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd be in for one of the beta units as long as it will handle .223, .308 and .338LM.
Also - what would your policy be for the early beta testers once your final design was coming to market? Would we be able to upgrade for a reduced charge or exchange the beta unit for the final version?
PM me a cost and how you want to get paid, also the ETA for delivery too.
Thanks! </div></div>
+1 on this. Please PM the price etc.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> To me these appear to be annealed perfectly. Im probably going to cut one in half and stick it on the Rockwell tester at school to confirm.
</div></div>
Have you had the chance to cut up and test some cases? That would be the best way I can think of to calibrate your dwell since the objective is to soften the neck/shoulder area.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> To me these appear to be annealed perfectly. Im probably going to cut one in half and stick it on the Rockwell tester at school to confirm.
</div></div>
Have you had the chance to cut up and test some cases? That would be the best way I can think of to calibrate your dwell since the objective is to soften the neck/shoulder area.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
Jon, full credit too you for your ingenuity, particularly for using one wheel for a multitude of calibres, simple is often better.
One problem I find with this type of annealing machine including the Ken Light which I own is that the second case coming into the heat is then shielding the case that is directly in the heat and in the annealing process, my way around this is to space the cases out.
Now the problem that I can see with your machine which works in the opposite direction to the Ken Light is that the very last case will be getting a lot more heat than all the rest. If you watch on your second dark room video you will see what I mean, personally I would say your very last case has been cooked. There is of course a very easy fix and that is to have a trashed case and always put it in last.
Jon, full credit too you for your ingenuity, particularly for using one wheel for a multitude of calibres, simple is often better.
One problem I find with this type of annealing machine including the Ken Light which I own is that the second case coming into the heat is then shielding the case that is directly in the heat and in the annealing process, my way around this is to space the cases out.
Now the problem that I can see with your machine which works in the opposite direction to the Ken Light is that the very last case will be getting a lot more heat than all the rest. If you watch on your second dark room video you will see what I mean, personally I would say your very last case has been cooked. There is of course a very easy fix and that is to have a trashed case and always put it in last.
Re: Annealing Machine interest and ideas
That is my exact solution, Ive kept a few junk cases as spacers to separate different lots, and also as the last case through because youre right, it does get torched bad.
That is my exact solution, Ive kept a few junk cases as spacers to separate different lots, and also as the last case through because youre right, it does get torched bad.
