*Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlowell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice....who came up with all the specs on this thing??
</div></div>
Bet it was a guy that can really build great rifles
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlowell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice....who came up with all the specs on this thing??
</div></div>
Bet it was a guy that can really build great rifles
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
Battleaxe,
There are still a few available. If you order now, delivery will be mid to end of August.
PM if you have questions.
Battleaxe,
There are still a few available. If you order now, delivery will be mid to end of August.
PM if you have questions.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LiteTac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Battleaxe,
There are still a few available. If you order now, delivery will be mid to end of August.
PM if you have questions. </div></div>
Actually my timing is terrible for this build. I've got a pricey M1A build in the works so I really should exercise some self control and wait til next years build. Maybe by the fall I'll be ready to order something.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LiteTac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Battleaxe,
There are still a few available. If you order now, delivery will be mid to end of August.
PM if you have questions. </div></div>
Actually my timing is terrible for this build. I've got a pricey M1A build in the works so I really should exercise some self control and wait til next years build. Maybe by the fall I'll be ready to order something.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
I shot the SH 260 rifle yesterday with all the test loads. I had some great results. The wind was blowing off and on with some switching mirage when looking through the scope. It was coming from my 4 to 5 o'clock at 5-15 mph. It shows in the groups, since they all string horizontally. If I could shoot them over on a more calm day, there is no doubt the groups would be tighter. Overall, the rifle shot very well, and would be a great rifle for precision shooting.
Here's the velocity readings and info I have on the test loads. Temp was about 65 F. Scope was a NF 5.5-22. Chrono is a CED M2 at 15 feet, shot in the prone position. My aiming point was the lower right diamond, and I moved the groups around by dialing the scope.
All were 5 shot groups shot at 300 yards
Brass: New Remington
Bullet: 139 Lapua Scenar, BC= .615
Load A and B were shot in the same spot, and printed 8 bullets into 2", with 2 called fliers. I couldn't tell which was which.
Load A
2565 fps avg 31 ES, 10.6 SD
Load B
2587 fps avg 13 ES, 4.0 SD
Load C
2.75" group
2603 fps avg, 13 ES, 5.0 SD
Load D
5.25" group (4 shot 2.5" group), bad horizontal spread. 1.25" vertical
2626 fps avg, 13 ES, 4.0 SD
Load E
4.6" group
2630 fps avg, 26 ES, 8 SD
2622, 2629, 2624, 2629, 2648
if you omit the 2648 round, then avg is 2626 fps and 7 ES
Load F
3" group spread horizotal.
2646 avg fps, 2 ES!! (4 rounds)
(I forgot to turn the chrono on for the first shot)
Load G
3" group (1.6" 4 shot) spread horizotal.
2672 fps avg, 26 ES, 8 SD
2672, 2684, 2672, 2658, 2678
if you omit the 2658, then you get 2676 avg and 12 ES
Load H
1.9" group with 3 bullets touching (Group is above bottom left diamond, not labeled)
2701 fps avg, 18 ES, 6 SD
2692, 2697, 2706, 2710, 2702
I tried Hybrid 100V, and got 2566 avg and 2594 avg. It shot good, but velocity is not there.
I think load F, G or H may be it. I may try some more powders, or see if I can get a few extra fps with it.
I shot the SH 260 rifle yesterday with all the test loads. I had some great results. The wind was blowing off and on with some switching mirage when looking through the scope. It was coming from my 4 to 5 o'clock at 5-15 mph. It shows in the groups, since they all string horizontally. If I could shoot them over on a more calm day, there is no doubt the groups would be tighter. Overall, the rifle shot very well, and would be a great rifle for precision shooting.
Here's the velocity readings and info I have on the test loads. Temp was about 65 F. Scope was a NF 5.5-22. Chrono is a CED M2 at 15 feet, shot in the prone position. My aiming point was the lower right diamond, and I moved the groups around by dialing the scope.
All were 5 shot groups shot at 300 yards
Brass: New Remington
Bullet: 139 Lapua Scenar, BC= .615
Load A and B were shot in the same spot, and printed 8 bullets into 2", with 2 called fliers. I couldn't tell which was which.
Load A
2565 fps avg 31 ES, 10.6 SD
Load B
2587 fps avg 13 ES, 4.0 SD
Load C
2.75" group
2603 fps avg, 13 ES, 5.0 SD
Load D
5.25" group (4 shot 2.5" group), bad horizontal spread. 1.25" vertical
2626 fps avg, 13 ES, 4.0 SD
Load E
4.6" group
2630 fps avg, 26 ES, 8 SD
2622, 2629, 2624, 2629, 2648
if you omit the 2648 round, then avg is 2626 fps and 7 ES
Load F
3" group spread horizotal.
2646 avg fps, 2 ES!! (4 rounds)
(I forgot to turn the chrono on for the first shot)
Load G
3" group (1.6" 4 shot) spread horizotal.
2672 fps avg, 26 ES, 8 SD
2672, 2684, 2672, 2658, 2678
if you omit the 2658, then you get 2676 avg and 12 ES
Load H
1.9" group with 3 bullets touching (Group is above bottom left diamond, not labeled)
2701 fps avg, 18 ES, 6 SD
2692, 2697, 2706, 2710, 2702
I tried Hybrid 100V, and got 2566 avg and 2594 avg. It shot good, but velocity is not there.
I think load F, G or H may be it. I may try some more powders, or see if I can get a few extra fps with it.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
Trajectory info between the 260 and a 308- wind is a 10 mph cross wind
308 Win with a 175 SMK @ 2700
MOA
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (moa) (moa) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2700 2832.6
500 -10.89 3.78 1871.3 1360.7
1000 -35.87 9.17 1251.6 608.7
MILS
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (mil) (mil) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2700 2832.6
500 -3.23 1.12 1871.3 1360.7
1000 -10.63 2.72 1251.6 608.7
260 Rem with 139 Scenar @ 2701
MOA
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (moa) (moa) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2708.4 2264
500 -10.09 2.93 2025.4 1266
1000 -30.94 6.84 1463.9 661.4
MILS
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (mil) (mil) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2708.4 2264
500 -2.99 0.87 2025.4 1266
1000 -9.17 2.03 1463.9 661.4
Trajectory info between the 260 and a 308- wind is a 10 mph cross wind
308 Win with a 175 SMK @ 2700
MOA
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (moa) (moa) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2700 2832.6
500 -10.89 3.78 1871.3 1360.7
1000 -35.87 9.17 1251.6 608.7
MILS
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (mil) (mil) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2700 2832.6
500 -3.23 1.12 1871.3 1360.7
1000 -10.63 2.72 1251.6 608.7
260 Rem with 139 Scenar @ 2701
MOA
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (moa) (moa) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2708.4 2264
500 -10.09 2.93 2025.4 1266
1000 -30.94 6.84 1463.9 661.4
MILS
Range Elev Wind Velocity Energy
(yards) (mil) (mil) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 --- --- 2708.4 2264
500 -2.99 0.87 2025.4 1266
1000 -9.17 2.03 1463.9 661.4
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
Looking good so far! Make sure put a case aside for me. This is my first .260, so I have nothing to feed it!
Ken
Looking good so far! Make sure put a case aside for me. This is my first .260, so I have nothing to feed it!
Ken
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
Chad, is there a reason the 260 loads are so slow? You may want to try H4350 or RL-22. You'll find your velocities more towards the upper 2750-2800 range.
Chad, is there a reason the 260 loads are so slow? You may want to try H4350 or RL-22. You'll find your velocities more towards the upper 2750-2800 range.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad, is there a reason the 260 loads are so slow? You may want to try H4350 or RL-22. You'll find your velocities more towards the upper 2750-2800 range. </div></div>
Prolly cuz of that wee little barrel...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad, is there a reason the 260 loads are so slow? You may want to try H4350 or RL-22. You'll find your velocities more towards the upper 2750-2800 range. </div></div>
Prolly cuz of that wee little barrel...
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
What load was Lowlight using out of his 18" 260 barrel?
What load was Lowlight using out of his 18" 260 barrel?
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
I was using a load which Chad chronographed during these same sessions which appear to have been going, at least through his chronograph 2670fps, which at RO gave me an elevation of roughly 8.8 Mils to 1000 yards, Chad is estimating 9.1 Mils with the same numbers from his lots that were more designed to push the accuracy out of the short barrel.
The idea of this is not to squeeze every ounce of speed out of the 260, this is an 18.5" rifle... its to get better ballistics out of a shorter, more tactically sound package, which this rifle is... This is the rifle from George here, the one in the picture above, I was traveling and Chad was working on this load development so before I sent it back to P.S.S. I asked Chad to do the testing I was unable to do because of my schedule.
If you look, this still is better than most 308 rifles out there, practical, tactical 308 rifles, and if you run the numbers you will see it is extremely close to a 308 running a 155gr bullet at 2950fps, especially in area of wind drift. Which is the goal, the elevation is very close and the wind drift does not fall off as bad as one would think. So, I think it accomplishes two goals... one gives the shooter the ballistics possible out of a short barrel, and it gives the shooter a better handling rifle than anything out there because of the size... a bit less recoil, good 1000 yard capabilities and very good accuracy.
These are the reason behind this rifle... if you want to squeeze speed out of something, of course you want to go longer, but you sacrifice handling and portability.
I was using a load which Chad chronographed during these same sessions which appear to have been going, at least through his chronograph 2670fps, which at RO gave me an elevation of roughly 8.8 Mils to 1000 yards, Chad is estimating 9.1 Mils with the same numbers from his lots that were more designed to push the accuracy out of the short barrel.
The idea of this is not to squeeze every ounce of speed out of the 260, this is an 18.5" rifle... its to get better ballistics out of a shorter, more tactically sound package, which this rifle is... This is the rifle from George here, the one in the picture above, I was traveling and Chad was working on this load development so before I sent it back to P.S.S. I asked Chad to do the testing I was unable to do because of my schedule.
If you look, this still is better than most 308 rifles out there, practical, tactical 308 rifles, and if you run the numbers you will see it is extremely close to a 308 running a 155gr bullet at 2950fps, especially in area of wind drift. Which is the goal, the elevation is very close and the wind drift does not fall off as bad as one would think. So, I think it accomplishes two goals... one gives the shooter the ballistics possible out of a short barrel, and it gives the shooter a better handling rifle than anything out there because of the size... a bit less recoil, good 1000 yard capabilities and very good accuracy.
These are the reason behind this rifle... if you want to squeeze speed out of something, of course you want to go longer, but you sacrifice handling and portability.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
I'm new to this so please excuse my newbie question. I ordered the 6.5 Creedmore version of this rifle, are the ballistics for the Creedmore round similar to the 260 round? Is the 6.5 Creedmore still capable to 1000 yards like the 260/308?
Thanks for the guidance,
Craig
I'm new to this so please excuse my newbie question. I ordered the 6.5 Creedmore version of this rifle, are the ballistics for the Creedmore round similar to the 260 round? Is the 6.5 Creedmore still capable to 1000 yards like the 260/308?
Thanks for the guidance,
Craig
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: craig_m</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm new to this so please excuse my newbie question. I ordered the 6.5 Creedmore version of this rifle, are the ballistics for the Creedmore round similar to the 260 round? Is the 6.5 Creedmore still capable to 1000 yards like the 260/308?
Thanks for the guidance,
Craig </div></div>
Short story yes.. right there with the .260 and it will over take the .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: craig_m</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm new to this so please excuse my newbie question. I ordered the 6.5 Creedmore version of this rifle, are the ballistics for the Creedmore round similar to the 260 round? Is the 6.5 Creedmore still capable to 1000 yards like the 260/308?
Thanks for the guidance,
Craig </div></div>
Short story yes.. right there with the .260 and it will over take the .308
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle *
My final trip to the range confirmed the load I like. Load G is the money load.
9 shots (cold bore at 100 yard, 8 rounds at 300 yards)
2692 fps avg, 23 ES, 7 SD- temp was about 70 degrees.
CB- 2701- 2693, 2695, 2690, 2704, 2694, 2683, 2691, 2681
Group is just under 1.5" at 300 yards. There were 2 uncalled fliers high left. With those 2, the group is right at 3".
Load H was below that, and opened up some. 3 rounds gave me mild pressure signs, so it's as high as I think it can go.
My final trip to the range confirmed the load I like. Load G is the money load.
9 shots (cold bore at 100 yard, 8 rounds at 300 yards)
2692 fps avg, 23 ES, 7 SD- temp was about 70 degrees.
CB- 2701- 2693, 2695, 2690, 2704, 2694, 2683, 2691, 2681
Group is just under 1.5" at 300 yards. There were 2 uncalled fliers high left. With those 2, the group is right at 3".
Load H was below that, and opened up some. 3 rounds gave me mild pressure signs, so it's as high as I think it can go.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
oh man thats a fine looking rifle if only it didnt cost so much to get one over here..
gov love to take there cut
oh man thats a fine looking rifle if only it didnt cost so much to get one over here..
gov love to take there cut
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
FWIW, I tried to get a small bone out of him about a week ago. His reply back was:
"Still working on getting the stocks. Will post pictures of all of the actions, bottom metal, bedding blocks etc. soon. I am anxious as well."
FWIW, I tried to get a small bone out of him about a week ago. His reply back was:
"Still working on getting the stocks. Will post pictures of all of the actions, bottom metal, bedding blocks etc. soon. I am anxious as well."
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
I don't have much to update about the build. The stocks will probably be here in the next few weeks which is on time for what we expected.
The barrels are not here, so that is pushing my schedule a bit. I am still planning on starting shipping the beginning of July. I am busy in the shop making sure everything else is in place.
I will notify all of the participants by email or PM when I have a firm schedule when their rifles will be ready. I will also make a post about the build, when I have taken delivery of the components.
I don't have much to update about the build. The stocks will probably be here in the next few weeks which is on time for what we expected.
The barrels are not here, so that is pushing my schedule a bit. I am still planning on starting shipping the beginning of July. I am busy in the shop making sure everything else is in place.
I will notify all of the participants by email or PM when I have a firm schedule when their rifles will be ready. I will also make a post about the build, when I have taken delivery of the components.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
What's everyone doing for glass on their SH Rifle?
What's everyone doing for glass on their SH Rifle?
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more I shoot, the less magnification I want... just saying. </div></div>
Lets just mount EOTechs on our bolt guns and call it our day optic.
GG
These builds are pretty nice BTW
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The more I shoot, the less magnification I want... just saying. </div></div>
Lets just mount EOTechs on our bolt guns and call it our day optic.
GG
These builds are pretty nice BTW
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeep Chimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's everyone doing for glass on their SH Rifle? </div></div>
...I think I am going to go with the best fixed 10X scope I can come up with...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeep Chimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's everyone doing for glass on their SH Rifle? </div></div>
...I think I am going to go with the best fixed 10X scope I can come up with...
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
got any extra parts to build one more possibly?
got any extra parts to build one more possibly?
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">got any extra parts to build one more possibly? </div></div>
Give George a call.
180 West 500 South #1
Spanish Fork, Utah 84660
Phone: (801) 602-5776
Email: [email protected]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">got any extra parts to build one more possibly? </div></div>
Give George a call.
180 West 500 South #1
Spanish Fork, Utah 84660
Phone: (801) 602-5776
Email: [email protected]
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
What is the over all length of this rifle, w/o the ACC brake? Just wondering if it will really fit in a case, and not go over the 62" combined length that airlines use to charge for excess baggage fees.
What is the over all length of this rifle, w/o the ACC brake? Just wondering if it will really fit in a case, and not go over the 62" combined length that airlines use to charge for excess baggage fees.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
There are parts enough for 5 more rifles. Choose your caliber from the available list.
The overall length is 41 inches with the LOP set at 13.5 and the AAC adapter installed. The rifle will be 47-48 inches with the AAC can installed.
There are parts enough for 5 more rifles. Choose your caliber from the available list.
The overall length is 41 inches with the LOP set at 13.5 and the AAC adapter installed. The rifle will be 47-48 inches with the AAC can installed.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
fredjake1,
I can still add a muzzle brake to your order if you like.
fredjake1,
I can still add a muzzle brake to your order if you like.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
Quick update,
We will be receiving a portion of the barrels this next week. We have not received the stocks yet. I am expecting them anytime soon.
With all of that, my time line has been pushed back, as I cannot finish the rifles without parts. My hands are tied until I get the parts in hand.
I apologize for the delay. I will give a firm update when I can. Thanks for all of your patience.
Quick update,
We will be receiving a portion of the barrels this next week. We have not received the stocks yet. I am expecting them anytime soon.
With all of that, my time line has been pushed back, as I cannot finish the rifles without parts. My hands are tied until I get the parts in hand.
I apologize for the delay. I will give a firm update when I can. Thanks for all of your patience.
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
For everyone waiting... It will be well worth it !!
me owning 3 of George's rifles
For everyone waiting... It will be well worth it !!
me owning 3 of George's rifles
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
If you ordered on of these, it is best to simply put it out your mind and not think about it.
All these builds are the same, they all take time and more so because they are built as part of a batch and require larger orders for parts to be fulfilled. It's not like ordering something for yourself where they put the order in for one thing and move on, the order is for a bunch of stuff which usually gets fulfilled together. So the wait is longer.
I try not to bother George with it, and simply know and understand when it reaches a point to where it is getting ready to be shipped he will call me.
I know it is hard, but this is just as much part of it as any of the spec, nothing goes 100% and once all the pieces and parts roll in understand they all move much quicker because they know we have been waiting.
Patience... a key virtue
If you ordered on of these, it is best to simply put it out your mind and not think about it.
All these builds are the same, they all take time and more so because they are built as part of a batch and require larger orders for parts to be fulfilled. It's not like ordering something for yourself where they put the order in for one thing and move on, the order is for a bunch of stuff which usually gets fulfilled together. So the wait is longer.
I try not to bother George with it, and simply know and understand when it reaches a point to where it is getting ready to be shipped he will call me.
I know it is hard, but this is just as much part of it as any of the spec, nothing goes 100% and once all the pieces and parts roll in understand they all move much quicker because they know we have been waiting.
Patience... a key virtue
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LiteTac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fredjake1,
I can still add a muzzle brake to your order if you like. </div></div>
...is it too late to change my mind on the cartridge...???...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LiteTac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fredjake1,
I can still add a muzzle brake to your order if you like. </div></div>
...is it too late to change my mind on the cartridge...???...
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
...this delay is actually saving my ass...
...my old job was suking out so bad on hours I jumped ship...
...I am hoping my new gig will prove profitable enough to stay in the game...
...I should be alright in another month or so...
...this delay is actually saving my ass...
...my old job was suking out so bad on hours I jumped ship...
...I am hoping my new gig will prove profitable enough to stay in the game...
...I should be alright in another month or so...
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you ordered on of these, it is best to simply put it out your mind and not think about it.
Patience... a key virtue </div></div>
"Good things come to those who wait."
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you ordered on of these, it is best to simply put it out your mind and not think about it.
Patience... a key virtue </div></div>
"Good things come to those who wait."
Chris
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
...hey, as long as they are as cool aboot waiting for their $$$ as we are in waiting for the rifles, it's all good...
...hey, as long as they are as cool aboot waiting for their $$$ as we are in waiting for the rifles, it's all good...
Re: *Announcing the 2009 Sniper's Hide Build Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mclevela</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update please. </div></div>
What he said. Its hard to have your money floating around out there and not be given updates as to the status of your project every once in awhile.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mclevela</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Update please. </div></div>
What he said. Its hard to have your money floating around out there and not be given updates as to the status of your project every once in awhile.
