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Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

ToolsoftheTrade

ToolsoftheTrade

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 1, 2007
111
35
53
MI
#1
Forum link to Kaboom
Apparently this guy had a Kaboom with his BOHICA, hopefully the shooter makes a full recovery.
There is, of course, a lot of discussion on this, but apparently as stated early in he discussion, he was NOT closing his bolt with the hammer on the bench.

Also hopefully we will get the details as to the cause of the failure.
 
#2
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

Geez, wish the guy well but he needs to pay close attention to what he is doing while reloading. I mean having to use a hammer to close the bolt, thats insane.
 
#3
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

cant imagine how scary that must have been with a .50. had it happen to me with a .22-250 and that was scary enough.

all i can is that Ruger M77's sure are built tough.
 
#4
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Geez, wish the guy well but he needs to pay close attention to what he is doing while reloading. I mean having to use a hammer to close the bolt, thats insane. </div></div>

please read my post all the way. he WAS NOT using a hammer to close the bolt.
 
#5
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

He evidently was NOT using the hammer to close the bolt . If you read further than the first few pages one of his buddies chimes in .

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he was not, i repeat not using a hammer to get the gun in battery.
his was using the palm of his hand.

the shooter is still in the hopsital, but should be able to have a complete recovery in time.

for the record, those hammers that were there were being used to put up the targets. </div></div>
 
#9
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

The guy's friend stated that he was not using a hammer, but several witnesses stated that they had seen him doing so and a couple of range regulars had seen him do it on previous occasions. Either way, sounds pretty fishy to me.
 
#10
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

This thread got me looking up pictures/stories of various KB's. I found an answer to a Q on Yahoo answers and this is what this guy posted:

"During the Vietnam War, the CIA worked out a way to take the regular gunpowder out of 7.62 X 39mm and 7.62 X 54mmR ammunition, replace it with C-4 plastic explosive or something similar, and slip it to the Viet Cong. The rounds thus treated would detonate when fired, causing injuries, deaths, and questions about Chinese quality control. If, by some ungodly circumstance, you happened to come across some of this ammo, and fire it, you could have a catastrophic weapon failure.
Maybe somebody should try something like that on the gang-bangers down in Mexico....."

If that's true, it's genius. I don't know that a primer would set off C4, but you could use some other form of explosive.
 
#11
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WASP7067</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread got me looking up pictures/stories of various KB's. I found an answer to a Q on Yahoo answers and this is what this guy posted:

"During the Vietnam War, the CIA worked out a way to take the regular gunpowder out of 7.62 X 39mm and 7.62 X 54mmR ammunition, replace it with C-4 plastic explosive or something similar, and slip it to the Viet Cong. The rounds thus treated would detonate when fired, causing injuries, deaths, and questions about Chinese quality control. If, by some ungodly circumstance, you happened to come across some of this ammo, and fire it, you could have a catastrophic weapon failure.
Maybe somebody should try something like that on the gang-bangers down in Mexico....."

If that's true, it's genius. I don't know that a primer would set off C4, but you could use some other form of explosive.
</div></div>

You are referring to project eldest son. This was a covert CIA op. I don't know exactly how the cases were modified but they were setup to basically blow apart the actions of the enemies rifles. This was used used as a means of physiologic warfare more then direct action against the enemy.

As for the shooter mentioned above. Hope is recovers and learned something from the experience.
 
#13
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

And me a EDM Windrunner
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes me glad I own a Barrett.</div></div>

Not that hush, hush. This has been discussed at length in the FCSA forum. It is just a closed forum that is all. If you have a .50 you should register. It is well worth the info you can gain on your .50 It all came down to the OOB discharge that is corrected with a channel cut into the back of the bolt that will not let the hammer strike the firing pin if the bolt is not fully closed and the channel vertical. When I get back from work I will see if I can find the pics and post them of the bolt correction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The whole issue is very hush-hush. There was an ALS OOB ignition at the FCSA nationals in 2009 at Raton. What details exist are being closely held.</div></div>
 
#14
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

Almost forgot to add. Rubber mallets are standard operating procedure with a .50
If you read most .50 manufacturers will tell you (E.D.M. for one) that if your rifle does not fire you are to smack it on the side with the firearm pointed in a safe direction of course to make sure a firing pin or other problem does not cause an OOB. When developing a load a light tap with a rubber mallet is better than using your palm. Of course It should never require more than hand pressure to close the bolt.
 
#15
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And me a EDM Windrunner
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes me glad I own a Barrett.</div></div>

Not that hush, hush. This has been discussed at length in the FCSA forum. It is just a closed forum that is all. If you have a .50 you should register. It is well worth the info you can gain on your .50 It all came down to the OOB discharge that is corrected with a channel cut into the back of the bolt that will not let the hammer strike the firing pin if the bolt is not fully closed and the channel vertical. When I get back from work I will see if I can find the pics and post them of the bolt correction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The whole issue is very hush-hush. There was an ALS OOB ignition at the FCSA nationals in 2009 at Raton. What details exist are being closely held.</div></div> </div></div>

Even on the FCSA private board it was some-what hush-hush. A lot of discussion, but not a lot of credible info and way too freaking much bickering. The FCSA board is a wealth of information, but the secrecy and bureaucracy of the FCSA does piss me off at times.

Hopefully David doesn't mind me reposting his photos here of the ALS bolt:

Original Bolt (top):
dsc00057wr.jpg


New Bolt (top):
dsc00002ga.jpg


Original Bolt (bottom):
dsc00060ek.jpg


New Bolt (bottom):
dsc00003pm.jpg
 
#16
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

Everytime i read something like this i get a little nervous about touching off a round out of my ferret 50. Mine does have the feature where the firing pin is not supposed to dissengage if the bolts not closed. I almost went with a bohica if they would have answered their phones and my next option was ALS but they had a 2 year wait. So far my ferret has been a great shooter and a performed flawlessly. I hope this guy and the guy with the OOB in the ALS recover fully.
 
#18
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: murrdogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everytime i read something like this i get a little nervous about touching off a round out of my ferret 50. Mine does have the feature where the firing pin is not supposed to dissengage if the bolts not closed. I almost went with a bohica if they would have answered their phones and my next option was ALS but they had a 2 year wait. So far my ferret has been a great shooter and a performed flawlessly. I hope this guy and the guy with the OOB in the ALS recover fully. </div></div>

I think you made a good choice in the ferret. If I was looking for an inexpensive .50, they'd be at the top of my list.
 
#19
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

EDMs are not immune to OOB discharge - read your owner's manual and where they TELL YOU to use a hammer on the rifle with a hang fire. The hang fire is caused by the firing pin catch over riding and wedging against the top of the M700 trigger.
 
#20
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That saves me from finding those picks. Thanks brasscow.
There does seem to be some strong personalities at FCSA I guess I just put on my tall boots and start wading.
smile.gif
</div></div>

I knew right where they were, so I figured I might as well. As for the tall boots - there are a few that make it miserable for the masses. I generally just use the search function and stay out of new threads unless there is something of interest anymore. Most of the info one needs is usually on load development, case prep, different chambers, etc anyhow.
 
#22
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

I posted just this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">EDMs are not immune to OOB discharge - read your owner's manual and where they TELL YOU to use a hammer on the rifle with a hang fire. The hang fire is caused by the firing pin catch over riding and wedging against the top of the M700 trigger.</div></div>

here is what I posted above about the rubber mallet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Almost forgot to add. Rubber mallets are standard operating procedure with a .50
If you read most .50 manufacturers will tell you (E.D.M. for one) that if your rifle does not fire you are to smack it on the side with the firearm pointed in a safe direction of course to make sure a firing pin or other problem does not cause an OOB. When developing a load a light tap with a rubber mallet is better than using your palm. Of course It should never require more than hand pressure to close the bolt.</div></div>
 
#27
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morgan711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Note to SELF >

I "WILL NOT" hit my BOHICA with a Hammer !!!
whistle.gif


DSCN0355.JPG
</div></div>



you don't have a clue dude.......me thinks one would need a hammer for that POS
 
#29
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Morgan711</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Note to SELF >

I "WILL NOT" hit my BOHICA with a Hammer !!!
whistle.gif


DSCN0355.JPG
</div></div>

To each there own but why would you put a 1-3x scope on a 50 cal?
 
#31
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

Good catch there Harry. Didn't see that until you pointed that out.


That was a good amount of blood on the ground.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a1-equipment</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW that would be a really bad day, did they fix the gun? trip to the er and a trashed $1500 upper that sucks, hope he recovers fully</div></div>
 
#33
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

if the bolt was not closed and the firing pin was released allowing the round to fire the case would seperate. not saying it was locked in the closed position or not but the seperated case could have been caused by the firing pin discharging the round without the action locked and it looks a bit like that . There was an issue on our range where a shooter was using a target action he closed the bolt and boom the firing pin snapped and discharged the round and the bolt lugs were not ingaged the bolt hit the ground 15 feet behind the shooter.

I think it is bad news to convert ar's to 50's with any conversian i know if done correctly the lugs should lock into the barrel and be safe but i just dont like it and would never fire one. as for using a mallet for a hang fire i understand the reasening but come on the rifle should function with out it if it cant make a trigger that works.
 
#34
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

I understand where you are coming from Bill. However, I have to disagree with you on making any trigger work. Have you seen the firing pin on a normal average .50? It is pretty friggin' enormous. The spring may not hold up a garage door but you get my drift. All this on top of a normal trigger that needs to be smooth clean and crisp? That is a tall order. Taller than just igniting a (real small) .308
smile.gif
 
#35
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

i do know where you are coming from and i thinkl that using a standard rem 700 trigger is realy asking a lot for a field type repeter mabe on bench rifles the idea is sound. the same go's on running them of an AR trigger a lot of pressure that is required to create the ignition required for the thick 50 cal primers. I think the Jewell desighn would be the best for using on a 50 that uses a rem style as it is based on the landing gear of a large passenger jet that will hold extreme pressure but it can be released easily. the standars rem type is not realy up to the task.

this is the problem with us consumers wanting military type calibres then wanting benchrest type accuracy from them. Has anyone had any problems with the AR50's i understand they run a rem pattern trigger? i would think they are probably the best desighn for a repeting 50 at a reasonable price but i think they are also now only single shot.

It is a real shame people get hurt but if anyone has troubles chambering live ammo or then neds assistance extracting a fired case their are issues with the ammo or firearm desighn.

I cant comment on what happened i was not there and dont want to make any falso statements on how it happened.

i had a blow up last night this will crack you up i purchased some take away food and a glass bottle of brewed Ginger beer. so i get home place the bottle unopened on the table in the lounge and 40 min later there was an explosion ginger beer everywhere and glas shards flying about it was a hell of a mess i called the company they said it happens if the glass is to thick and basicaly said stiff shit.

Anyway thought you would get a laught from a blow up that did not hurt anyone.
 
#36
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Makes me glad I own a Barrett. </div></div>
Any rifle can fail with the right circumstances.
there was a soldier injured in Iraq when his Barret had a catastrophic failure, If i remember it was a hangfire issue...he got messed up pretty good.
cant find the article right now. but here is his face...
BarrettFailure3.jpg

BarrettFailure3.jpg

Barret failure facial injury
 
#37
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: murrdogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everytime i read something like this i get a little nervous about touching off a round out of my ferret 50. Mine does have the feature where the firing pin is not supposed to dissengage if the bolts not closed. I almost went with a bohica if they would have answered their phones and my next option was ALS but they had a 2 year wait. So far my ferret has been a great shooter and a performed flawlessly. I hope this guy and the guy with the OOB in the ALS recover fully. </div></div>

Why are you nervous about touching a round off in your Ferret?I've got over 1800 rounds through mine. The pin won't go through the bolt face unless it is 100% into battery.I have the Ferret Steel lower though. The trigger design is FAR heavier than anything that could be used on an AR15 lower.That completely eliminates the condition of having a hammer and spring heavier than what the receiver was originally designed for. Compare the Ferret bolt to the ALS bolt pictured, the Ferret's firing pin tailpiece is completely shielded from the hammer until the bolt is completely cammed down. Plus you have 1.35 square inches of shear area designed into the bolt.A McMillan has 0.92 square inches for comparison. Nothing is foolproof-all the steel in the world won't make a bit of difference if the bolt isn't in battery.
FerretUpper003.jpg


As far as getting ANY USEFUL info off the FCSA forum-good luck. You can get help at a match-but few if any will put answer's INTO WRITING. Especially concerning loading data.

Loading a 50 isn't as easy as other centerfire cartridges.If you need to close the bolt with a hammer-chances are you had better learn to resize and properly prepare your brass.Primer pockets MUST be prepped and the primers seated correctly-it isn't like seating primers into 308 cases.

Some guys buy once fired machine gun brass--good luck getting that resized to fit into anything that remotely resembles a match chamber

B...bend O...over H... here I...it C...comes A...again.
 
#38
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

I have a Serbu BFG-50 which works great and no problems.
I like the bolt design which prevents out of battery fire.

BTW, the rubber mallet is also a requirement when shooting cheap ammunition.
 
#39
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brasscow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hopefully David doesn't mind me reposting his photos here of the ALS bolt:
</div></div>

Hmm.... I've got a ALS from right before the CA ban and it's got the old style bolt obviously... and there is a recall on it too. Looks like I need to send it in!
 
#40
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B...bend O...over H... here I...it C...comes A...again. </div></div>

Oh how fitting that name is for that company.
 
#41
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

It is more than you just need to send it in!!
you need to not fire it as explained on their web site. There was a severe personal injury with this particular bolt design and a new one has been made to correct it (or mod to your old one) You need to get that in.
http://www.50bmg.net/pilot.asp?pg=recall

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brasscow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hopefully David doesn't mind me reposting his photos here of the ALS bolt:
</div></div>

Hmm.... I've got a ALS from right before the CA ban and it's got the old style bolt obviously... and there is a recall on it too. Looks like I need to send it in!</div></div>
 
#42
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is more than you just need to send it in!! you need to not fire it as explained on their web site. </div></div>

Not firing it shouldn't be a problem, I've not fired it for a couple of years now, or maybe longer. There is only 1 range around here that allows 50 and the 200 yard portion of that range is only open to the public 1 day a month or less (depending on the weather).

Like my AR I only bought it before the ban, never really wanted one but got one just in case things changed down the line.
 
#43
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayne</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is more than you just need to send it in!! you need to not fire it as explained on their web site. </div></div>

Not firing it shouldn't be a problem, I've not fired it for a couple of years now, or maybe longer. There is only 1 range around here that allows 50 and the 200 yard portion of that range is only open to the public 1 day a month or less (depending on the weather).

Like my AR I only bought it before the ban, never really wanted one but got one just in case things changed down the line. </div></div>


No, there still is a problem. Can you guarantee that weapon will NEVER be out of your possession. The chance is that SOMEONE may,in the future,fire it. It is your responsibility to ge the replacement bolt. OR DESTROY or modify it so that it can NEVER BE FIRED.
 
#44
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No, there still is a problem. Can you guarantee that weapon will NEVER be out of your possession. The chance is that SOMEONE may,in the future,fire it. It is your responsibility to ge the replacement bolt. OR DESTROY or modify it so that it can NEVER BE FIRED. </div></div>

Of course I'm going to get the bolt replaced. "The Mechanic" posted that I had to do more than send it in, that I had to stop firing it and send it in which to me implied that he thought I might try to sneak in a few more range sessions before getting around to replacing the bolt. I counted saying that since I've not fired it in years it's unlikely I'll hold off getting it to UPS.

The worst part of all this is that I have to go get the bolt out of storage. I keep the CA registered receiver stored separately from the upper and bolt. Obviously the 50 is not in my bugout bag.
smile.gif
 
#45
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

I don't understand the logic of short range/CQB optics on 50's, which leads me to conjecture that they are more of a manhood expending novelty to the owners than a long range tool, which in turn leads me to question the intent and understanding of the systems' function and operation by the owner.

I hope the guy recovers speedily and fully. I'll bet he'll have a helluva a flinch to work on now........
 
#46
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't understand the logic of short range/CQB optics on 50's, which leads me to conjecture that they are more of a manhood expending novelty to the owners than a long range tool, which in turn leads me to question the intent and understanding of the systems' function and operation by the owner.

I hope the guy recovers speedily and fully. I'll bet he'll have a helluva a flinch to work on now........ </div></div>

Possibly, he had the scope already one might surmise and wanted to get a few rds down to see how it would do, with intentions of putting something more suiting on.
Maybe he knows now and in hind sight he made the right decision
smirk.gif
..on the scope that is..
 
#48
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't understand the logic of short range/CQB optics on 50's</div></div>

Fun hater.
wink.gif
</div></div>

ORKAN ...Your killin'me dude ...lol
( PS ) my original scope took a dump !! ( ORKAN it was your preferred brand by the way ! ;)) and to continue shooting I used the scope off my AR
grin.gif


I don't think I can drive that pos in the ground with a rubber mallet....got's a 12# sledge I can borrow !
 
#50
Re: Another .50 Kaboom. BOHICA Arms

Morgan, at least you didn't mention the "preferred brands" name. It shouldn't be spoken or written. Should be scrubbed from the history books as far as I'm concerned. Every time I see one on someone's gun, I want to tomahawk it into the ground.
smile.gif


There is a post about the bohica kaboom on another forum that I think is worth posting here:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most likely I'm going to sell my Bohica. Here's why.

I can buy anything I want. For me a 50 is a throwback to my Marine Corps days. It is a weapon that kind of culminates my collection. When I was looking at 50's to shoot, I considered several manufacturors, including Armalite, Barrett, and Bohica. I chose a Bohica because when I bought it, they were a fledgling company with a cool idea and neat product. I also liked the idea that it used the AR platform. Everything seemed like they were headed in the right direction. Then all the Mickey Mouse stuff. Dowel rods, new bolt handles that don't fit any better than the old ones, rifles that topple over because they are too front heavy and the bipod is mounted too far to the rear, shipping every Wednesday (except this one) etc. are all huge red flags to me.

I have many weapons. I shoot nearly all of them a lot. There is only one rifle that I own that I lack confidence in - my Bohica. I have beat the piss out of my ARs and never had a round go off unexpectedly. I have had bolts destroyed, but the stray parts largely remained inside the receiver. It's call engineering and testing. Two things I am convinced Bohica does not have or do.

No amount of money saved is worth my life or the life of anyone unlucky enough to be nearby if a malfunction turns a weapon into a claymore. I cannot even imagine that anyone could say an OOB firing pin strike is an operator error, under any circumstance. I don't care if he beat the damn thing with a sledgehammer and an icepick. A rifle should not go boom when OOB. Ever. If it does it is because there is a design flaw in the firing mechanism. Period. To blame anything else is delusional.

So I'll most likely sell the Bohica and buy a dedicated 50 that's been properly designed, engineered, and manufactured. One whose manufacturer is not judgement proof in the event the damn thing blows up and kills or maims me or someone I care about.</div></div>
 
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