Re: Another incursion by Mexican forces
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BugSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And to say that we should only take the elite from other places is elitist and hypocritical. Were your ancestors the elite from wherever they hailed? Mine weren't. Mine, and the ancestors of the vast majority of us, had to come for the same reasons immigrants still come; they had no opportunity in "x" and were poor and only getting poorer. My family wasn't "unpoor" until just 2 generations ago when my grandfather had the opportunity to go to college. Judging someone's fitness to be here based on their economic or educational background is no better than basing them off of their skin or eye color. </div></div>
LOL. Right now we say "Where are you from?" Russia? Sorry, too many already this year. South America, Africa? Awesome! We do discriminate on skin color currently, albeit indirectly because we directly discriminate by coordinates. Doing it on achievement would be a huge step UP.
My family came as indentured servants. That's a similar structure to what I outlined, and one that quite honestly should still be legal IMO. We should also clearly be varying our entrance allowances sharply, whimsically even, on our economic snapshot. Otherwise you do nothing but subvert your currency, again through intrinsic and basic math.
You have shown a tremendous lack of knowledge on this subject honestly. If you have not lived in or at least seen the southwest, you don't know shit about shit frankly. You can't, beyond supposition. Do you want to see the demographics on foreclosures and "multi-occupancy" dwellings, even in rich areas? Disease demographics? Illegals have decimated, absolutely decimated areas of the southwest like locusts. As a whole, I'd rather see us retreat than try to reconstruct it. They took it back, boldy and in plain sight.
Mechanic is right, coming to a store near you.
Also, your statement on middle tier workers needs addressing, just briefly. Our economic planners decided we should export our low and middle wage jobs to other countries and become a "knowledge-based economy." Pffft! Someone wasn't tracking our test scores when they had that idea. Regardless, in order to succeed in this forced environment, you need to have a certain amount of raw material. If you lack that, you are left scrounging for work. Bringing in all these beloved "hard workers" necessarily screws over our own hard workers, born on US soil. Unless we reestablish solidly our physical exports, these people you describe simply do not have work here, unless, necesssarily, we sink to the economic level of the country that occupies that space currently.
Carry your logic to its inclusion for your own sake. Let's just say we bring in 100 million rural Chinese, good hard-working stock from the worldwide leader in economic growth. What happens in your fantasy? The hut people dictate rates, period. Any of the suckers that aren't insulated by a generation because of regulations like licensing (doctors, lawyers) will see their standaard of living decrease because the hut people will compromise somewhere between hut and McMansion, but can always say McMansion-$1 and be happy.
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I'm not meaning to insinuate that we should simply open the flood gates. That's not the answer either. What I am suggesting is that we need to come up with a <span style="font-style: italic">real</span> plan of legally gaining entry that fits our modern era. I don't have the answer, I never claimed I did, but clearly we need to find some method of figuring out the problem and dealing with it that doesn't involve ridiculous measures like walls and electric fences and permanently stationed military forces along our borders (even if only because these methods will never work and be a huge drain on the taxpayers at the same time). Part of that solution, however, needs to be a clear avenue of legally gaining entry that isn't convoluted and that doesn't take forever and a day to accomplish. Even many immigrants who have come here legally, been educated here, have worked here and paid taxes here have a difficult time staying without being illegal. I have a friend, a Brazilian, who had to join the military after trying for 10 years to get residency, and this was after being educated in America and contributing every bit as much as you or I. Another, a Canadian, was forced to marry before she (and her husband) were ready. She was educated here, and had a good job as a teacher on a student/work visa, then suddenly got a letter saying you have to go by "x" date or be deported. There is a problem when we are shooing educated, hard working, law abiding immigrants. There's no wonder that illegal immigration is a problem when doing it legally is a pipe dream.
Again, you're attributing a huge, very complex problem to one small part of the puzzle and calling it a day. I have no doubt that some illegals are a drain on the housing market/job market/whatever other market you can come up with, but to attribute all of our current economic woes to illegals is shortsighted. Everyone has these problems. There are far more US born Americans who have foreclosed on their homes than illegal aliens. There are far more US born Americans who are a drain on the taxpayers than illegal aliens. I'm not saying that it makes illegals right or special or anything, but I am pointing out that it is the system that is broken in many places, most of it perpetrated by US born Americans, not simply a problem involving illegal aliens. They are but a small part of a very complex issue when it comes to our current economic woes.
Actually our test scores <span style="font-style: italic">used</span> to be very good until our modern school system run by teachers unions who care more about teachers than students took over. Then those "step backs" were further made worse by abominable policies like "No Child Left Behind." We have fallen, and that isn't because of anything other than politicians and activists taking over things they know nothing about. We've priced ourselves out of the job market by not allowing the market to be a free market. We go in with free market ideas, but just end up regulating business to the point that it's not profitable to allow the free market to work here. Minimum wage is the worst of those offenses. All it does is arbitrarily drive up the cost of living. It doesn't make those with less have more, as it's designed to do, it makes everyone have less because as people make more money, that money becomes worth less and drives up the cost of everything. Since we as a people have artificially driven up wages by over-regulation, we have also artificially driven up the cost of living to the point where our companies cannot sustain themselves <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> their American workers, we must rely on cheap labor from overseas (and here) to compensate for it. You can't place the blame on immigrants for a problem caused by Americans and our need to over-regulate and over compensate. Do you know of any Americans who are willing to make a product and sell it at Chinese prices? Me neither. Or of any who will work for Chinese wages? Me neither. Would you pay far more for everything that you buy, with the same money you have now, so you can say you have American made everything? Not likely, and even if so, you are definitely in the minority.
The problem economically is that we want our cake and we want to eat it too. We all want goods made in America by Americans, and we want to buy them cheaply. Our current system does not allow for that. Something must give.
And that has nothing to do with illegals, but with our insistence on buying a shit load of crap for cheap using money that we've strong armed companies into paying just to make us feel better about our existence. Immigrants are not taking our jobs. We are giving them away because we won't work for prices we are willing to pay for the things we buy.
