I know its good for the body withthe stretches and all. I'm trying to do the 90x lean version. Are you guys doing the yoga. I understand the benefits as it pertains to improving balance and core muscle, but as it seems most of the other dvds have elemants of yoga in their excercises. I don't need to clear my mind. i need to lose my freakin belly. thanks once again
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another p90x question: Yoga
- Thread starter srtsam
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Re: another p90x question: Yoga
If you're not dogging it in the yoga, it's working you... I try to keep up fully (I have to use a yoga block a lot) and at the end I'm sweating like crazy and sore the next day.
I wouldn't skip Yoga, I think it's a hell of a workout, and the stronger I build my core, the stronger I feel the rest of my body is getting. If you're trying to get rid of belly, do the Yoga, then do the Cardio-X DVD that evening, or even bicycle or run a little.
If you're not dogging it in the yoga, it's working you... I try to keep up fully (I have to use a yoga block a lot) and at the end I'm sweating like crazy and sore the next day.
I wouldn't skip Yoga, I think it's a hell of a workout, and the stronger I build my core, the stronger I feel the rest of my body is getting. If you're trying to get rid of belly, do the Yoga, then do the Cardio-X DVD that evening, or even bicycle or run a little.
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
Ya even a good standard (non p90x) version of a yoga workout will work your core beyond belief! It really is beneficial in multiple ways.
Ya even a good standard (non p90x) version of a yoga workout will work your core beyond belief! It really is beneficial in multiple ways.
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
I just do the first half of the Yoga. The second half jacked my back all up to the point I almost had to stop.
I think 45-50 mins of yoga is plenty for me. The hour and half really pushes the time barrier. I'm on my 11th week and I still have some trouble with the one leg balance stuff at the end of the first half of yoga. Fun stuff......
I just do the first half of the Yoga. The second half jacked my back all up to the point I almost had to stop.
I think 45-50 mins of yoga is plenty for me. The hour and half really pushes the time barrier. I'm on my 11th week and I still have some trouble with the one leg balance stuff at the end of the first half of yoga. Fun stuff......
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
Ya this weekend I have a couple 1.5 hour Yoga classes they are gonna be a killer.. Good times...
Ya this weekend I have a couple 1.5 hour Yoga classes they are gonna be a killer.. Good times...
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
Look, you can have a strong upper body and a strong lower body, but if your core is weak, your body will be relatively weak (overall).
There's a misconception out there that Yoga is only for the "clearing of the mind" and the "focusing of the Chi." And while both of these statements are true, Yoga offers so much more than just these two benefits. Some other benefits include:
- Increases in body balance,
- Stronger stabilizer muscles,
- Increased flexibility,
- Etc.
Look, you can have a strong upper body and a strong lower body, but if your core is weak, your body will be relatively weak (overall).
There's a misconception out there that Yoga is only for the "clearing of the mind" and the "focusing of the Chi." And while both of these statements are true, Yoga offers so much more than just these two benefits. Some other benefits include:
- Increases in body balance,
- Stronger stabilizer muscles,
- Increased flexibility,
- Etc.
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a misconception out there that Yoga is only for the "clearing of the mind" and the "focusing of the Chi." And while both of these statements are true, Yoga offers so much more than just these two benefits.</div></div>
You are absolutely correct.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">However</span> what passes for Yoga in the West differs much from the traditional Yoga as taught in reputable schools in India. Most of the Western practices are built around Sun Salutation sequences - which are not a part of Yoga at all (they come from warm-up practices of Indian wrestlers). That doesn't diminish effectiveness of this exercise, but it doesn't make it Yoga.
Yoga does not have a "workout", and if one sweats after (or during
) a Yoga session - the session was not Yoga. Not to say there wouldn't be benefits - but not those that Yoga offers.
Correctly practiced Yoga indeed improves muscles - but at a very slow pace. Correctly practiced, Yoga is 100% free of traumas and "sports injuries". But its practices are slow, and its effects are slow to build - nowhere near in speed and efficiency of e.g. Western body-building (or any other sport) or Eastern Martial Arts. Thus to keep in shape for strenuous activities it is advisable to add Martial Arts and some Western exercises to the regimen of training (though not at the same time as Yoga practice - e.g. do one in the morning and the other one in the evening).
P.S. I'm reasonably well-versed in most of the "mainstream" Yoga schools and brands both in US and in India.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's a misconception out there that Yoga is only for the "clearing of the mind" and the "focusing of the Chi." And while both of these statements are true, Yoga offers so much more than just these two benefits.</div></div>
You are absolutely correct.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">However</span> what passes for Yoga in the West differs much from the traditional Yoga as taught in reputable schools in India. Most of the Western practices are built around Sun Salutation sequences - which are not a part of Yoga at all (they come from warm-up practices of Indian wrestlers). That doesn't diminish effectiveness of this exercise, but it doesn't make it Yoga.
Yoga does not have a "workout", and if one sweats after (or during
Correctly practiced Yoga indeed improves muscles - but at a very slow pace. Correctly practiced, Yoga is 100% free of traumas and "sports injuries". But its practices are slow, and its effects are slow to build - nowhere near in speed and efficiency of e.g. Western body-building (or any other sport) or Eastern Martial Arts. Thus to keep in shape for strenuous activities it is advisable to add Martial Arts and some Western exercises to the regimen of training (though not at the same time as Yoga practice - e.g. do one in the morning and the other one in the evening).
P.S. I'm reasonably well-versed in most of the "mainstream" Yoga schools and brands both in US and in India.
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
I never skip Yoga day, since the last 15 minutes or so are Yoga Abs. I can actually, hold Warrior 3 for almost the entire duration. The only one I suck at is the one where you balance on your hands, my wrists are jacked up.
I leave it on the mat, and literally can wring out my shirt and fill a cup with sweat. Yoga day rocks, even though it is 1.5 hours.
I never skip Yoga day, since the last 15 minutes or so are Yoga Abs. I can actually, hold Warrior 3 for almost the entire duration. The only one I suck at is the one where you balance on your hands, my wrists are jacked up.
I leave it on the mat, and literally can wring out my shirt and fill a cup with sweat. Yoga day rocks, even though it is 1.5 hours.
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ....and if one sweats after (or during
) a Yoga session - the session was not Yoga. P.S. I'm reasonably well-versed in most of the "mainstream" Yoga schools and brands both in US and in India. </div></div>
I would not tell that to Bikram Choudhury.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ....and if one sweats after (or during
I would not tell that to Bikram Choudhury.
Re: another p90x question: Yoga
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SgtKope</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and if one sweats after (or during wink ) a Yoga session - the session was not Yoga.</div></div>
I would not tell that to Bikram Choudhury.</div></div>
Perhaps you're kinder to people than I am - as I would.
Seriously, I have no problem with any training system or practice as long as it works (and that is subjective - e.g. if it works for you it's good enough, though I may or may not be interested). What I do dislike is people "stealing a ride" on the coat-tails of somebody else's fame.
What Bikram does may be good (I have my opinion about it, but nobody asked for it so I keep it private
), but it has little in common with Yoga (like several of the now-popular "Yoga" schools here). So in my opinion he would be more honest to say "I've created this wonderful new system - come try it and see how much better you'd feel (or not)", instead of claiming "This is Yoga" (which it isn't). IMHO <span style="font-style: italic">Yoga</span> relates to <span style="font-style: italic">Bikram Yoga</span> as <span style="font-style: italic">Justice</span> relates to <span style="font-style: italic">Revoutionary Justice</span>.
(<span style="font-style: italic">In India where temperature can easily get to 40+ degrees Celsius during the day - Hatha Yoga was practiced early in the morning, before sunrise - to avoid the "benefits" of the heat. How do I know? From the words of my Teacher and the books like Hatha Pradipika and Siva Samhita that are accepted as undeniably authentic by the majority of the schools. Oh, and from being there and practicing.</span>)
Because of whatever shortcoming of my own - I'm disgusted when somebody can't stand and sell on its own merit, and has to pretend the merchandise to be something else.
Western people in general find difficult to practice "stillness" and to hold concentration for a long time (it is said in India that an average Westerner has attention span of a teenage boy). So the West desires its practices to be like gymnastics (which is fine) but also wishes to call the practice "Yoga".
<span style="font-style: italic">You have a similar movement in religion(s) - people want to claim belonging to a certain religion but wish to dispose with rules and laws the given religion imposes. So "branches" are born that change the rules and sometimes the essence - but keep calling themselves "the same thing".</span>
Naturally demand generated supply - and multitudes of teachers are offering gymnastics under the name of "Yoga", mostly in the West but in India too (as India is "westernizing" and catching up with not only Western science & technology but culture as well).
<span style="font-style: italic">The reality is more complicated than that, because in 19th century youngsters in India - boys mostly - were observing regular display of gymnastics by British troops, were impressed & envious - and desired a system - something that would train them to do the same things. Thus the first "Dynamic Yoga" was born in Mysore - not for Westerners but for those Indian boys who didn't want to feel (physically) inferior to British soldiers.
</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">How does one decide what is Yoga?</span> By comparing the system/approach in question with the authentic texts - Scriptures of the tradition - and <span style="font-style: italic">authentic</span> interpretations of those texts. If a teacher belongs to a lineage, and his explanations of the practices make sense in light of the Scriptures - it's likely that his teaching is authentic.
If a teacher claims to have a secret tradition that came from nobody knows where, written on just-discovered palm leaves that nobody else ever seen or heard of and that cannot be presented now for study or examination - well, his approach may be best since sliced bread - but (to me at least) it isn't authentic. Again, it doesn't make his training bad - just doesn't fit the dress he's trying to cloth it in.
<span style="font-style: italic">An illustration of a legitimate method to add or modify. Those who practice any branch or style of Yoga probably know Ardha Matsiendrasana posture (Spinal Half-Twist). This is not a traditional posture - the books mention only Matsiendrasana (Spinal Twist). The "Ardha" variation was created by Swami Kuvalayananda at Kaivalyadhama in 20th century, because he observed that few of his students could master the full twist. But he never claimed it to be a part of received Tradition. Swamiji clearly differentiated between what he received in his lineage and what he added or modified (and why). This is the honest and the correct approach, IMHO.</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">What is an "authentic" Yoga?</span> Indian Yogic tradition is ancient - at least of Vedic age - and comprises several "limbs" or "branches". The best formal definition and description of Yoga is given in Yoga Sutra of Patanjali. Its main accent/goal was (and is) spiritual - but it was obvious to the Sages from the very beginning that one cannot immerse in spiritual activities if his body isn't in a proper shape. Which makes perfect sense. To practice meditation (<span style="font-style: italic">Indian style! I am not talking of Chinese and Japanese meditative techniques like moving in Kata performance and such</span>) one has to sit for many hours without any movement - and yet stay comfortable and relaxed (and alert - but it's a different story). Not that unlike of what a sniper has to do lying in a hide and waiting, for hours if not days. Those of you who've been in that skin - ask yourself how demanding that "no-activity" is? How easy (or hard!) is it to stay immobile for a long time? How often would the body remind of itself by an ache, an itch, etc? So one of the goals of Hatha Yoga is to make the body strong and supple enough so it <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> stay in a position for a very long time without discomfort - and without distracting its "owner" from whatever he turns his mind on. But to develop strong power of concentration one must learn to "reign in" his emotions and gain certain level of control over the thought flow. And that is done - in Traditional Yoga - through learning control of the breath (for example, it was not extraordinary for an intermediate practitioner to be able to retain his breath for 4 minutes comfortably). But controlling one's breath is hard until and unless (a) the body is supple enough, and (b) the practitioner is "familiar" enough with his body so he can control it (without actually harming it by that control!)... Etc.
<span style="font-weight: bold">What are authentic sources of Indian Yoga?</span> Tradition - and detailed practices - have always been transmitted orally from Teacher to the student ("there's no Yoga for all - there's Yoga for each individual"). But along the timeline many written references were recorded - for various reasons and with varying degree of detail. The closer to 20th century - the more "practice manual-like" those references become. E.g. Yoga Sutra of Patanjali dated early AD contains everything but is so condensed that a typical student would hardly be able to decipher the actual techniques (rather than principles). Hatha Pradipika by Swatmarama dated around 1400 AD on the other hand, describes techniques and practices in details sufficient for a student to perform them on his own (though this book too emphasizes the necessity of practicing with a Teacher).
Vedas do not explicitly talk of Yoga (though they mention <span style="font-style: italic">practitioners</span>. <span style="font-style: italic">Brahmanas</span> - early Vedic commentaries - talk about practices <span style="font-style: italic">tapas</span>). Katha Upanishad is the first to mention the term <span style="font-style: italic">Yoga</span>. Bhagavad Gita provides description of several Yoga paths, though - as pointed out above - its accent is on the spiritual aspect. Yoga as an Eight-Limbs system was defined by Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra presumably around 200 AD. But sutras (aphorisms) are very brief and often in need of expounding (usually provided by a Teacher). Several "explanatory" well-respected and <span style="font-style: italic">authentic</span> books that go into details of the practices and the actual techniques are Gheranda Samhita around 1700 AD, Shiva Samhita between 1500 & 1600 AD and Hatha Pradipika around 1400 AD (though if interested - I suggest Kaivalyadhama edition that is scholarly verified and includes 5th chapter on healing diseases caused by errors in practice)...
Examples of Yoga schools that follow the Tradition:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Kaivalyadhama in India and Kaivalyadhama in USA [*] Integral Yoga[*] Sivananda Yoga[/list]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SgtKope</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and if one sweats after (or during wink ) a Yoga session - the session was not Yoga.</div></div>
I would not tell that to Bikram Choudhury.</div></div>
Perhaps you're kinder to people than I am - as I would.
Seriously, I have no problem with any training system or practice as long as it works (and that is subjective - e.g. if it works for you it's good enough, though I may or may not be interested). What I do dislike is people "stealing a ride" on the coat-tails of somebody else's fame.
What Bikram does may be good (I have my opinion about it, but nobody asked for it so I keep it private
(<span style="font-style: italic">In India where temperature can easily get to 40+ degrees Celsius during the day - Hatha Yoga was practiced early in the morning, before sunrise - to avoid the "benefits" of the heat. How do I know? From the words of my Teacher and the books like Hatha Pradipika and Siva Samhita that are accepted as undeniably authentic by the majority of the schools. Oh, and from being there and practicing.</span>)
Because of whatever shortcoming of my own - I'm disgusted when somebody can't stand and sell on its own merit, and has to pretend the merchandise to be something else.
Western people in general find difficult to practice "stillness" and to hold concentration for a long time (it is said in India that an average Westerner has attention span of a teenage boy). So the West desires its practices to be like gymnastics (which is fine) but also wishes to call the practice "Yoga".
<span style="font-style: italic">You have a similar movement in religion(s) - people want to claim belonging to a certain religion but wish to dispose with rules and laws the given religion imposes. So "branches" are born that change the rules and sometimes the essence - but keep calling themselves "the same thing".</span>
Naturally demand generated supply - and multitudes of teachers are offering gymnastics under the name of "Yoga", mostly in the West but in India too (as India is "westernizing" and catching up with not only Western science & technology but culture as well).
<span style="font-style: italic">The reality is more complicated than that, because in 19th century youngsters in India - boys mostly - were observing regular display of gymnastics by British troops, were impressed & envious - and desired a system - something that would train them to do the same things. Thus the first "Dynamic Yoga" was born in Mysore - not for Westerners but for those Indian boys who didn't want to feel (physically) inferior to British soldiers.
</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">How does one decide what is Yoga?</span> By comparing the system/approach in question with the authentic texts - Scriptures of the tradition - and <span style="font-style: italic">authentic</span> interpretations of those texts. If a teacher belongs to a lineage, and his explanations of the practices make sense in light of the Scriptures - it's likely that his teaching is authentic.
If a teacher claims to have a secret tradition that came from nobody knows where, written on just-discovered palm leaves that nobody else ever seen or heard of and that cannot be presented now for study or examination - well, his approach may be best since sliced bread - but (to me at least) it isn't authentic. Again, it doesn't make his training bad - just doesn't fit the dress he's trying to cloth it in.
<span style="font-style: italic">An illustration of a legitimate method to add or modify. Those who practice any branch or style of Yoga probably know Ardha Matsiendrasana posture (Spinal Half-Twist). This is not a traditional posture - the books mention only Matsiendrasana (Spinal Twist). The "Ardha" variation was created by Swami Kuvalayananda at Kaivalyadhama in 20th century, because he observed that few of his students could master the full twist. But he never claimed it to be a part of received Tradition. Swamiji clearly differentiated between what he received in his lineage and what he added or modified (and why). This is the honest and the correct approach, IMHO.</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">What is an "authentic" Yoga?</span> Indian Yogic tradition is ancient - at least of Vedic age - and comprises several "limbs" or "branches". The best formal definition and description of Yoga is given in Yoga Sutra of Patanjali. Its main accent/goal was (and is) spiritual - but it was obvious to the Sages from the very beginning that one cannot immerse in spiritual activities if his body isn't in a proper shape. Which makes perfect sense. To practice meditation (<span style="font-style: italic">Indian style! I am not talking of Chinese and Japanese meditative techniques like moving in Kata performance and such</span>) one has to sit for many hours without any movement - and yet stay comfortable and relaxed (and alert - but it's a different story). Not that unlike of what a sniper has to do lying in a hide and waiting, for hours if not days. Those of you who've been in that skin - ask yourself how demanding that "no-activity" is? How easy (or hard!) is it to stay immobile for a long time? How often would the body remind of itself by an ache, an itch, etc? So one of the goals of Hatha Yoga is to make the body strong and supple enough so it <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> stay in a position for a very long time without discomfort - and without distracting its "owner" from whatever he turns his mind on. But to develop strong power of concentration one must learn to "reign in" his emotions and gain certain level of control over the thought flow. And that is done - in Traditional Yoga - through learning control of the breath (for example, it was not extraordinary for an intermediate practitioner to be able to retain his breath for 4 minutes comfortably). But controlling one's breath is hard until and unless (a) the body is supple enough, and (b) the practitioner is "familiar" enough with his body so he can control it (without actually harming it by that control!)... Etc.
<span style="font-weight: bold">What are authentic sources of Indian Yoga?</span> Tradition - and detailed practices - have always been transmitted orally from Teacher to the student ("there's no Yoga for all - there's Yoga for each individual"). But along the timeline many written references were recorded - for various reasons and with varying degree of detail. The closer to 20th century - the more "practice manual-like" those references become. E.g. Yoga Sutra of Patanjali dated early AD contains everything but is so condensed that a typical student would hardly be able to decipher the actual techniques (rather than principles). Hatha Pradipika by Swatmarama dated around 1400 AD on the other hand, describes techniques and practices in details sufficient for a student to perform them on his own (though this book too emphasizes the necessity of practicing with a Teacher).
Vedas do not explicitly talk of Yoga (though they mention <span style="font-style: italic">practitioners</span>. <span style="font-style: italic">Brahmanas</span> - early Vedic commentaries - talk about practices <span style="font-style: italic">tapas</span>). Katha Upanishad is the first to mention the term <span style="font-style: italic">Yoga</span>. Bhagavad Gita provides description of several Yoga paths, though - as pointed out above - its accent is on the spiritual aspect. Yoga as an Eight-Limbs system was defined by Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra presumably around 200 AD. But sutras (aphorisms) are very brief and often in need of expounding (usually provided by a Teacher). Several "explanatory" well-respected and <span style="font-style: italic">authentic</span> books that go into details of the practices and the actual techniques are Gheranda Samhita around 1700 AD, Shiva Samhita between 1500 & 1600 AD and Hatha Pradipika around 1400 AD (though if interested - I suggest Kaivalyadhama edition that is scholarly verified and includes 5th chapter on healing diseases caused by errors in practice)...
Examples of Yoga schools that follow the Tradition:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Kaivalyadhama in India and Kaivalyadhama in USA [*] Integral Yoga[*] Sivananda Yoga[/list]
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