Rifle Scopes Another Viper review 4-16X50 updated range report

Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">or just people that peaked at them early on... </span> </div></div>

it was all hype from people I believe, you cant get a 1500$ quality scope for 750$.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Okay, here are some more pics, I hope my poor photography skills and my crappy camera can at least give you guys some idea of how these optics compare. I mounted all scopes shown on a tripod, and all photos are taken of the same ridgeline above my home approx. 2.5 miles away.
I decided I would use several different scopes both because on this thread and a few others like it, the quality of PST glass is being discussed. So, for the record, I've got pics here from; Mk4 6-20X50 TMR, Mk4 4.5-14X5 MD, Viper PST 4-16X50 EBR-1, and the Falcon menace 5-25X50 ML16. the last one is because a couple people are wondering about the comparison between the Falcon and the PST.

DSCF5209.jpg

Since the magnification varies between the scopes, I thought I would show pictures from all the scopes at the same mag. A picture of 6 power from each scope, and a picture of 16X from each scope, except the Mk4 4-14 as it max's out at 14. I hope the comparison is noticable.

1st up, the Mk4 6-20X50 @ 6X
DSCF5211.jpg


Then again at 16X
DSCF5215.jpg



Then we move on to the Mk4 4-14X50 @6X
DSCF5222.jpg


And now at 14X
DSCF5223.jpg


Now for the scope in question, The Viper PST @ 6x
DSCF5217.jpg


And then at 16X
DSCF5219.jpg


And Lastly the Falcon menace at 6X
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and then 16X

DSCF5226.jpg


We all know how hard it is to do justice to quality optics through a camera, and trust that all shady spots are from my bad camerawork, so it may be hard to tell. It is a good experience looking through all these scope one after another, first, it makes me appreciate even having four scopes of this kind to look through. And second, it is easy to tell differences when they are all so close together.
After looking through these scopes in the hot afternoon sun, I was happy to see that both my Mk4's were all that I had expected them to be, the Viper, when at 14X or less seemed to be just as good as the others, but when turned up to 16 it started to distort a little(very little). and even the Falcon was pleasing to they eye, to my surprise, at 16X it seemed to be just as clear as the PST. That said, when I cranked it up to 25 you could definately notice a little more "fuzzieness" than the PST even at 16X.
All four of the scopes meet my "ridgid"
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standards for different applications. The Mk4's are my die hard go to scopes that keep my confidence up. The PST I would say is a less expensive option that I feel could for the most part fill those shoes, and while yet unproven to me in the hard field conditions I plan on taking it to, I am confident that it will do well. The Falcon is a great buy, and though I probably wouldn't want it in a life and death situation, it certainly is a very useful optic, and I'm sure it will fill the position well. The beauty of all four scopes is that I hopefully(knock on wood) will never have to BUY another, while they may fail, or become inconsistent, they all have a great warranty.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

CBM,

Thanks for putting those up. First thing I noticed was how much less the Marks 4's "black donut" compared to the PST and a lot less than the Falcon. Is that an aberration caused by camera placement or can you confirm that when you get behind them that the Mark 4's have a smaller "donut"?

One other thing I noticed is that there is almost no chromatic aberration from the Mk4 6-20X50. Probably because the others are near max. magnification, except the Falcon which is probably really bad at max.(as expected). I would expect to see more from the Mk4 6-20X50 at 20x. What is interesting is that the CA in the Mark 4 is blue to green fringing and the PST and Falcon is red. Red is *much* more noticeable and blue or green is usually not apparent to most if they are not looking for it.

The one thing that tells me that the PST is a decent optic is that there is not much discernible darkening at max. unlike the Falcon which is already showing it even though it's about 60% of its max. magnification.

Looking forward to those lowlight pics.

John
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Oh yes, the dougnut is smaller with the Mk4's, most of the faults you will find in these images are from the camera. I was very pleased even with the Falcon, all of them were a good look. After shooting a bit yesterday with the Viper, I've decided that my "favorite" mag. for this scope is right about 10-12X its a beautiful picture, and the reticle is big enough to be read and measure targets ect. but not so big that it covers everything and precision is compromised by high magnification distortion.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Hey CBM, thanks for the comparison. I hope you don't mind but I took your pics and combined them into one so its easier to compare. I still think the Viper looks pretty good. Although the 2nd Mark4 may be the winner.
scope%20pics.jpg
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

CBM, did ya drool again? just messin with ya... but look at the PST at 16x picture, looks like a dirt spec either outside or inside the ocular lens (same spot as your first set of pictures) if its not something thats cleanable and you didnt cause it id send er back.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Thanks for the donut clarification. I *really* like scopes that disappear.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've decided that my "favorite" mag. for this scope is right about 10-12X its a beautiful picture,</div></div>

This was factored into my choice of the 6-24. No optic performs it's best at maximum magnification. I figure the 6-24 will look pretty good @ 20x. and still give me more reach than my 4-14 Falcon.

Forgot to ask... did you take all of those pics at the same shutter speed and f stop? It will make a difference in contrast and brightness of image.

You can really see the red CA in the side by side pics at 16x. It looks like an outline on the hillside that is there on the PST and the Falcon. It also makes the trees look pinkish. The MK 4's have it too, but because it's on the blue to green spectrum, it blends in with the sky.

John
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the donut clarification. I *really* like scopes that disappear.</div></div>

me too.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Forgot to ask... did you take all of those pics at the same shutter speed and f stop? It will make a difference in contrast and brightness of image.

</div></div>

I was just using a cheap point and shoot.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m1k3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey CBM, thanks for the comparison. I hope you don't mind but I took your pics and combined them into one so its easier to compare. I still think the Viper looks pretty good. Although the 2nd Mark4 may be the winner.

</div></div>

No problem, thanks for the help. I have to say though, my pics aren't as good as the true image. The 2nd Mk4 does look real good in life and the pics, but so do all the others.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CBM, did ya drool again? just messin with ya... but look at the PST at 16x picture, looks like a dirt spec either outside or inside the ocular lens (same spot as your first set of pictures) if its not something thats cleanable and you didnt cause it id send er back. </div></div>

Yes, THANK YOU
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Felipe for pointing out my drooling problem! yes that is another spot from the other days shooting. JK, good eye.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

I'm glad you took the pics CBM. I'm now thinking about changing my order from the 4-16x to the 6-24x. Just can't decided! Damn these decisions!

After it was mentioned, I can see the pink in the Vortex and Falcon. I guess that could be attributed to the filters and not a measure of glass quality? Looking at that bunch of trees or bushes in the 16x, you can see them a little better with the Viper and MK4 vs the falcon. That's where I would look for image quality but I'm not a imaging expert.

When I get my PST, which ever it is, I'll post up pics like you CBM of a Vintage Tasco Fixed 4x, Vortex Diamondback 4-12, Viper 6.5-20x, and Bushnell 3-9x Walmart scope. The PST should be the best of the bunch although the Tasco is amazing for a 4x scope. Its actually one of my favorites since its an underdog and was given to me for free.

Mike
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Thanks to the OP for taking the time to post those pics. Very interesting. I think my only beef is how representative are ANY of them when focused on something 2.5 miles away? How many 2.5 mile shots is anyone here going to take? Would the results change if the center of the scope was focused on something definable at say 500 or 1000 yds? Not talking about the color or pink haze as much as the actual resolution of the glass itself to distinguish details at a specific range.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking about that myself, I would like to do a similar comparison at the ranges you suggest, unfortunately, my house is located in a place that doesn't allow such viewing. I might be able to do it in the future. As well as the lowlight ones. </div></div>

Thanks. I hope you didn't take my post as critical or whining. I just wonder if it would make a difference people's perceptions of the optics?
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Ok, sorry for the wait, my camera is a piece of crap.
Here are some lowlight pics, they dont look very clear, but that is just the camera. They also dont look very dark, that is also the camera, it was dark enough that I thought it wasn't going to work, about like first shooting light in the morning. in the pics you can see the furnace stack from my neighbors house, I could barely make out the details with my naked eye, but it was very clear through the scope. I could just imagine how nice a big buck or bull might look sneaking into the trees in the early morning.

Here at 4X
DSC02021.jpg

and here at 16X
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Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Thanks CBM.

Looks promising.

Has anyone heard anything lately about expectations of shipment for the next batch?

I PM'd Scott but no answer.

John
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Very, very nice job coldbore. Thanks for your time and effort. One of the most objective and factual comparisons of this type I've seen. All these scopes look excellent, I'd be satisfied with any of them. Think I'll keep my $700 MkIV.
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okie
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks CBM.

Looks promising.

Has anyone heard anything lately about expectations of shipment for the next batch?

I PM'd Scott but no answer.

John </div></div>

I assume you mean email and not PMs? All PMs answered.

Haven't heard a word yet, but we did get some good news.

Scott
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks CBM.

Looks promising.

Has anyone heard anything lately about expectations of shipment for the next batch?

I PM'd Scott but no answer.

John </div></div>

I assume you mean email and not PMs? All PMs answered.

Haven't heard a word yet, but we did get some good news.

Scott </div></div>

No, not you, Scott! I PM'd the *other* Scott!

Wow, can't you guys read my mind?
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John
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Thanks to all, It has been fun comparing them all.And I'm glad to be of help to those who want it. I shoot on a very shallow budget, shooting is all I do though, so bang for buck is very important to me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: okiefired</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very, very nice job coldbore. Thanks for your time and effort. One of the most objective and factual comparisons of this type I've seen. All these scopes look excellent, I'd be satisfied with any of them. Think I'll keep my $700 MkIV.
smile.gif

okie </div></div>

Thanks Okie, I agree with you there, like I said above, I'm just happy to have four scopes of this "caliber". I know they aren't S&B,USO,NF, ect. But someday I'll make that happen.
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well now Scott you can't just say "we did get some good news" and leave it at that! That's just cruel!! LOL</div></div>

+100 on the cruel, you can't leave us hanging out here. Please share the "good news".
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sudnit5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it's only good news to Scott... </div></div>You guys talking about me or Scott Berish? I dont recall saying anything like that recently.



Scott
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sudnit5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess it's only good news to Scott... </div></div>You guys talking about me or Scott Berish? I dont recall saying anything like that recently.



Scott</div></div>

From another thread

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks CBM.

Looks promising.

Has anyone heard anything lately about expectations of shipment for the next batch?

I PM'd Scott but no answer.

John </div></div>

I assume you mean email and not PMs? All PMs answered.

Haven't heard a word yet, but we did get some good news.

Scott</div></div>
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Hey Scott_at_Vortex, while your here how about an update on what all is going on!?

Would love to hear what all is taking place and current thoughts on estimated delivery for that first major batch of PST's!!

Read a couple different posts that they were told by Vortex customer service the end of August, and into September for delivery??

Thanks in advance! I know alot of us are chompin at the bit for info!!
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

I need to quit reading reviews, and figure out a way to look through one myself. I have a Mk4 that i've outgrown, however my pocketbook has gotten smaller, I can sell the Mk4 and have it pay for the Vortex. Hmmmmm....

Branden
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Thanks for the work you've done.
Everyones eyes may be alittle different, however the MK4 is clearly the one I see as my choice.
Very good CB
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

Yessir it is. BTW all, I forgot to post the initial range report with the PST and its newly finished host rifle(a custom .223) This is from the post on the build thread in my signature.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So today after work, I stopped by one of my favorite shooting venues, the mountains above my home, to test some new dope.(thanks Chubbles)
after a short hike I found a suitable rest, and started picking out targets(rocks). I picked out 430, 530,630,710, and 930yds.
It looked great, but after the first few shots I realized my card was going to be a bit off, but I carried on so as to get some solid data to work with.I cant tell you how much I LOVE this Vortex Viper! It was SOO nice to shoot with. The shots at all ranges went as follows; read card, make adjustment, fire 1st shot, spot miss, measure adjustment and make it, fire 2nd shot, target destroyed. all the way out to the 930 yd target, with several confirming hits on each target, I was happy to say the least, both the gun and the scope were almost boringly repeatable.
The load was: 75 Amax, 24.5 gr of RL-15, Winchester brass, Fed205m primer seated at 2.880 with a SP comparator, here is the dope generated from todays trip;

430 yards-2.0 mils

530 yards-2.5 mils

630 yards-3.6 mils

710 yards-4.5 mils

930 yards-7.7 mils

After the last few shots, and noticing that it only took 7.7 mils of the 15 I had available left on the dial, I got a little curious.
So I started looking for a further target, I did so while thinking to myself: I built this gun not really expecting to use it much past 1k. And I'm pretty sure, field conditions will dictate how and when that happens, none the less I kept looking. I had a hard time getting the Leica to hit anything due to the suns low angle in the sky making pretty much all my potential targets glow with radiation, but I managed to get two good measurments off of a rock in the shadow of a tree, surrounded perfectly by soft dirt, the kind that makes good dust signatures. the two readings I got said 1308 and 1309 yds. Wow I thought, thats a hell of a push for a little .223. but I figured it was worth a try. I set to estimating the dope nessessary to reach 1300 yards, my card only went to 1k, but I had an old one in MOA that went to 1.5k so I did a little math and figured it should take around 14.5 mils to get me there. so I dialed in the 14.5 hoping it would be at least on the dirt so I could see it. I barely spotted the first miss in the grass just below the dirt, I measured with my reticle it was about 2 mils low. I only have 15 available so I dialed the 15 and held one more over with the reticle. The hushed report of the rifle was such a beautifle sound, and the bullet noise echoed through the canyon, and I watched as my bullet impacted perfect elevation and just .5 mil right of POA. even the little breeze that there was played hell with my little bullet. I fired three or four more rounds up there, all of them landing close to the rock I was aiming at, never more than 1 mil from it and close as .25 mil from it.
It certainly was a good experience, and I learned alot about this gun, this load, and the capabilities we will have together in our long term relationship. I cant wait to get out again and keep working with it!!</div></div>
 
Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Testedone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4 months later..still a good post....

Couple questions I might ask

My range has ranges from 100 -600 yards...should I stick with the 4-16 or maybe the 6-24??

Also MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL??

Thanks </div></div>

I have the 6-24x and although I don't often crank the magnification up to 24x for tac matches I am very happy to have the extra magnification available when needed rather than not available.
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As for MOA vs Mil it's somewaht a personal preference.


My personal preference is MOA because I know how long 1in is where as I'm not sure how big a miliradian is, target sizes are typically given in inches, and I don't divide well by Pi. I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S doctrine because I know the weakest link of my kit is the biological component. The less math I have to do the better for all involved.
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Re: Another Vortex Viper review 4-16X50

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bunsen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My personal preference is MOA because I know how long 1in is where as I'm not sure how big a miliradian is, target sizes are typically given in inches, and I don't divide well by Pi. I'm a firm believer in the K.I.S.S doctrine because I know the weakest link of my kit is the biological component. The less math I have to do the better for all involved.
grin.gif
</div></div>

Exactly why I was very happy with mrad setup. Math using meters and centimeters is so much easier for me than yards/inches. Upper torso of a man is ~1m so if he measures 5 mrad that's 200m. Whitetail also is about 1m at shoulder. Like you said, one should go with whatever they are more familiar with but if one knows metric system then mrad is simpler to calculate.

I just received my 4-16x today. Waiting on the sun to set so I can compare low light performance against couple of Diavari's.