Anti CCW ABC special

[THE MGD]

anyone else see this?
intresting info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg&feature=related

yeah like most of you ive got my arguements and points, but im trying to ignore that, shut up and learn from other peoples mistakes.

(for those unable to load the video. ABC took college students and had them train with police officers with glock "paintball pistols". They learned how to draw and shoot with concealed carry OWB. They sat them in a classroom for protective gear and ambushed it with shooters to simulate a school shooting. most CCW participants stood in the open and fired, killing them faster. good info especially for me who got my wife a ccw but have never taken her to a stress shooting range now i know she might be more prone to getting killed.) food for thought anyway.

 

[sgtkeebler]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

I thought it was interesting and informative, makes me want to go to the range again.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Not so easy is it?

 

[ScarBliss]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not so easy is it? </div></div>

Hope you aren't insinuating people shouldn't be allowed to ccw. ABC failed to explain how exactly it would be better if they were all unarmed and a repeat of VT or Columbine happened. We have the Appalachian School of Law where an armed student DID stop a gunman, but apparently that instance isn't very interesting to the guys that made this propaganda piece. More fuel for the anti 2a thugs. But then what do I know I'm just a simple cowboy

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Not implying that AT ALL. Just pointing out the fact that it ISN'T easy to react in a stressful situation having had the training. Now that magnifies tenfold when people have little to no training as clearly demonstrated by the video.

Is it propaganda, of course it is but that doesn't take away from the fact just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're going to save the day.

 

[ScarBliss]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not implying that AT ALL. Just pointing out the fact that it ISN'T easy to react in a stressful situation having had the training. Now that magnifies tenfold when people have little to no training as clearly demonstrated by the video.

Is it propaganda, of course it is but that doesn't take away from the fact just because you have a gun doesn't mean you're going to save the day. </div></div>

I don't think many of us want to "save the day" but rather attempt to preserve our own life. Not sure where the whole save the day myth got started, but ABC sure seems to be trying to milk the crap out of it.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Understood

 

[Wolvenhaven]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

The issue with this "study" is that the shooters knew which students were carrying and could target them first. It negated the whole concealed part of it.

 

[schollianmj]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Another issue I had with this was that yea the people got training.... what was it, an hour? 2 hours? No, in that amount of training time they would not be able to get the fundamentals or mindset down. i agree with CCW, but i firmly believe that it needs to be more than a simple handgun safety class. There is more to using a weapon than just pulling it out and shooting. I have a friend that can shoot a hell of a lot better than I can, but he cant even go hunting, take a life? never happen. just having a weapon, permit, and knowing how to shoot and carry does not make you able to point that weapon at a person and consciously end their life. I have anumber of other thoughts and concerns with this piece, but I will stay off my soapbox.

 

[SeanRT]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Yeaaaaaahhhh...that video was a load of BS. You can't tell me that ABC or that the police department they used was completely objective in the scenarios that they ran.

I'm calling BS on the whole thing.

 

[Turk]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

I'd like to see how much better your average LEO would do????

 

[Slapchop]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see how much better your average LEO would do????

</div></div>

Getting ambushed like that, I don't think anyone cop or otherwise would fare much better.

With the exception of the Hide Commandos of course.

 

[Turk]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolvenhaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue with this "study" is that the shooters knew which students were carrying and could target them first. It negated the whole concealed part of it. </div></div>
^^ +1

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Wasn't Violence Policy Center bankrolling this little study?

 

[cactusbrew]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolvenhaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue with this "study" is that the shooters knew which students were carrying and could target them first. It negated the whole concealed part of it. </div></div>
^^ +1</div></div>

And this is the thing. Why not have a study with a classroom of 30 people, 1 person has a CCW, and the shooter is unsure who has it. Then lets do this study. Or lets make it even more realistic and tell the "killer" no one has a CCW. Then have him go in and be "surprised" when a student does have a CCW. THen we will see what would happen in real life.

We might also want to put a Z-variable in there of having the CCW person be a highly trained proficient gun person (certified firearms trainer) vs a newly minted gun owner. Then you would see what "training" does in this situation.

Bottom line, the media already knew what it wanted to find, so it did its best to make it happen. And lets not forget, the media always finds what it wants to find in its studies. When it doesnt, it fakes it, think the car tests that were done in 90's.

 

[schollianmj]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cactusbrew</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolvenhaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The issue with this "study" is that the shooters knew which students were carrying and could target them first. It negated the whole concealed part of it. </div></div>
^^ +1</div></div>

And this is the thing. Why not have a study with a classroom of 30 people, 1 person has a CCW, and the shooter is unsure who has it. Then lets do this study. Or lets make it even more realistic and tell the "killer" no one has a CCW. Then have him go in and be "surprised" when a student does have a CCW. THen we will see what would happen in real life.

We might also want to put a Z-variable in there of having the CCW person be a highly trained proficient gun person (certified firearms trainer) vs a newly minted gun owner. Then you would see what "training" does in this situation.

Bottom line, the media already knew what it wanted to find, so it did its best to make it happen. And lets not forget, the media always finds what it wants to find in its studies. When it doesnt, it fakes it, think the car tests that were done in 90's. </div></div>

Exactly.

 

[powderBurnz]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

I wear mechanix gloves all day especially when in a lecture or meeting. LoL!

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">anyone else see this?
intresting info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg&feature=related

yeah like most of you ive got my arguements and points, but im trying to ignore that, shut up and learn from other peoples mistakes.

(for those unable to load the video. ABC took college students and had them train with police officers with glock "paintball pistols". They learned how to draw and shoot with concealed carry OWB. They sat them in a classroom for protective gear and ambushed it with shooters to simulate a school shooting. most CCW participants stood in the open and fired, killing them faster. good info especially for me who got my wife a ccw but have never taken her to a stress shooting range now i know she might be more prone to getting killed.) food for thought anyway.
</div></div>

At least it is letting us know what we are up against in the media.

I think we should do a counter video do correctly....

 

[THE MGD]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

all bs and obvious arguements on the varibles used aside, what I gathered out of all of this is:

I dont believe ABC was againt the LAW of allowing CC but rather the minimal training given for the ccwp. I do law enforcement and executive protection, so these fundementals are trained to me and PRACTICED. why this caught my attention is , I took my WIFE who has little to no practice (once every 2mo she shoots) to get a ccwp. My worries are with her.

 

[The Gump]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

They should do a test where they ambush a lone person on the street. I feel that you are more likely to experience a hostile situation one on one rather than in a group. Notice the examples they presented. The victim was able to defend themselves. It was one on one, not in a group setting.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Not exactly a double blind study.

 

[okrebel92]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Well tahts a buch of bull shit. You can clearly see that he knew who was carrying.

 

[bigwill214]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

What I learn from the video is that you have to train as you fight.. You would not wear such a large shirt over such a large gun. If you do, you may want to rethink it. Also, train as you fight. If you wear certain things, then wear them when you go to the range. Try to use a range that allows drawing and shooting from a holster.

It did show an attacker going for a specific person besides the teacher. As others said, the attacker should not know who or where the one with the CCW is sitting. That would actually make it a more realistic scenario. Other than that I do not see how this is anti-CCW as the OP posted.

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

I saw it and wished I didnt what a load of BS

 

[Tac22]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Noticed the person with the CCW was also sitting in just about the same seat every time as well. +1 on the huge shirt. Would also be interested in seeing how many levels of safety the holster had.One release or more?

 

[Okie Gordon]

Re: Anti CCW ABC special

Typical media propaganda.

Decide what you are going to "prove" then come up with something on film that will show your agenda in a way that looks unbiased to the majority of viewers.

Mythbusters needs to to a similar but realistic test to bust the ABC myth. They may not always get it right the first time but they try for accuracy and are willing to admit when the mess it up.