Any argument to be made for picking up a rifle in 7.62x39?

[acudaowner]

I would beg to differ , I think everyone should have both an ar and an ak , 2 guns is way more fun than just one . If one goes down you always have a back up . being prepared for anything is priceless . You can never have too many guns and too much ammo so buy more ammo .

 

[BurnOut]

I would opt for 30-30 lever action over a bolt chambered for x39

Why make it a one-or-the-other choice?

I *will* say that the Howa mini in x39 is noticeably lighter than a Marlin 336.

 

[Mudburner]

Purple is really hard to read.

Not intended, sorry. Fat thumbs, little phone!

 

[AZgeek]

Thanks.
I may have to set the target out farther.....

Heading out to the range this weekend. I have Golden Tiger & Silver Bear. Be testing 224 Valkyrie but will carve out some time to compare these two out to 330 yards minimum. I don't think I ever compared them head-to-head.

 

[MadDuner]

Heading out to the range this weekend. I have Golden Tiger & Silver Bear. Be testing 224 Valkyrie but will carve out some time to compare these two out to 330 yards minimum. I don't think I ever compared them head-to-head.

Thanks.
I look forward to your results!

 

[slothlacrosse]

So long as we’re talking the availability of steel cased ammo at reasonable-ish prices. What’s the crowd favorite? Tula, Wolf, Red Army Standard, some sort of surplus in spam cans?

I've had good luck with steel-cased ammo named after animals. I haven't used anything else.

 

[USMC-FURY]

I am trying to limit myself. I think 9mm, 5.56, 308, 6.5CM, and 300NM cover all my bases. Any argument to be made for picking up a rifle in 7.62x39?

I’ve been tempted to get rifle chambered in 7.62x39 (AK - either WASR10 or ZPAP M70, Bren 2, or Galil Ace) , but every time I get close to pulling the trigger I think “Do I really want to add another caliber?”. Especially considering I could get the Bren 2 or Galil Ace in 5.56 anyway. And then I think “Well I already have an LMT and X95, do I really need a Galil Ace or Bren 2...”

AK's are for short range noobs. I had the "Mercedes Benz," of AK's the SIG 556R. The recoil (even with custom brass hand loads) was horrible! If you're gonna need a reliable CQB weapon maybe, But anything over 100 yards is a crap shoot with an AK, and likenI said the recoil is way much for consistently accurate follow up shots. I used to pull the X39 & X54 steel core bullets from the ammo and for sh*to n giggles id dump the powder charges on a scale, the x39 had a 0.7 grain variance and the x54 had a 1.3 grain variance. AK....reliable, but terribly inaccurate and the way it jumps around with every squeeze of the trigger make its the noob gun it is.....spray n pray...
.

 

[erikblank]

Simplest answer is yes. You should have at least 1 x39. If for no other reason than if we ever get invaded that maybe our enemies round of choice. Availability is everything. If not, it's still a low cost awesome round for deer out to 200 yards or plinking.

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

I'd think you'd want a 5.45 gun. Then again 5.45 isn't as easy to come by as it used to be due to the Obama Bans.

 

[Wagon]

I once bought an PSAK GF3, nothing wrong with it, just feel more confident with AR platform. Went with a KS47 10.5" pistola , pretty accurate within 100 yds, can't be happier. I have a Ruger American Range in 556 AR which I like a lot -- other than the very HOT barrel after just 20 rounds... but have read a lot of good accuracy in their 7.62, now I am watching forums for one at a good/reasonable price.

 

[Niles Coyote]

7.62x39, Ruger American Ranch... almost all import ammo grouped between 1.25 to 2 moa.

 

[MadDuner]

I'd think you'd want a 5.45 gun. Then again 5.45 isn't as easy to come by as it used to be due to the Obama Bans.

Love my 5.45 gun so much I bought another one because 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

 

[Valken]

There is one reason that I found. A cheap (the one I own was $100) SKS makes a decent car gun. I keep it and a beat up HP. Truck gets broken into or stolen. Well it doesn’t hurt as much as some of my more expensive rifles and pistols. And I can make body shot hits out to 200. So it would be handy to keep someone at bay if needed.

 

[Jgault]

I have a ak which is fun to shoot, and just built a ar in 7.62x39 2 weeks ago. With current ammo prices I can still get semi reasonable prices on Russian ammo, so it made sense.

 

[secm]

I am trying to limit myself. I think 9mm, 5.56, 308, 6.5CM, and 300NM cover all my bases. Any argument to be made for picking up a rifle in 7.62x39?

I’ve been tempted to get rifle chambered in 7.62x39 (AK - either WASR10 or ZPAP M70, Bren 2, or Galil Ace) , but every time I get close to pulling the trigger I think “Do I really want to add another caliber?”. Especially considering I could get the Bren 2 or Galil Ace in 5.56 anyway. And then I think “Well I already have an LMT and X95, do I really need a Galil Ace or Bren 2...”

I just don't like Russian anything!

 

[scudzuki]

Initially I bought a 7.62x39 upper for an AR-15 and mags from ASC with the reasoning that if SHTF and ammo became scarce, you gotta be ready to use any ammo you come across.
Eventually I got an AK, built one, actually, then another, from kits sourced at armsamerica.com. Romanian MD 65s with 80% lowers. They beat the shit out of your face where your cheek welds on the stock, very uncomfortable to shoot (because they're so over gassed, but that's why they keep running). Forged trunnions and new US made nitrided barrels. One I assembled with a Hungarian underfolder stock, it's very cool. They run as they should, 4 MOA accuracy at best (Wolf Polyformance) but much better than throwing stones.
Of course kits have all dried up, too. I have one to assemble, new WBP Poland parts. Probably get into it this week.

 

[S197]

you can’t go wrong with an ak, just buy steel cased rounds and have fun.

 

[cav21082108]

Well, 7.62x39 is pretty cheap and usually plentiful. I like the bulk sardine canned stuff for long term storage. Always runs fine in an actual commie-built gun. Sometime less reliably in US Manufactured guns (closer tolerances in the US guns sometimes makes the gun prefer brass cased ammo rather than the steel-cased commie stuff. It doesn't hurt to have several ammo options available when times are hard or there are ammo shortages. I see that my local Academy always has plenty of 22 Hornet ammo (not that he stocks all that much anyway), but .223 seems to have gotten pretty tight lately. I reload, but primers have totally disappeared except for shotgun and .50 BMG primers. If you have a readily available supply of 7.62x39, you should give it some thought (depending on your current stocks of ammo for you other calibers). I have considered it myself but I'm retired and money isn't as easy for me to spend anymore.

 

[Tonsofguns]

When Ammo is short consolidating calibers sucks.
Especially because all the popular calibers get jacked up first.
Overall if you own a lot of guns, consolidating caliber does not seem to make a lot of sense. Having many calibers always gives me option based on the situation and times what I can and will shoot.
During this pandemic I’ve been getting back to shooting my aks.
7.62 by 39 and the master race 5.45 by 39.
Aks just run and run and you don’t ever need to worry about shooting steel case, as the tapered round was meant to work well with steel case and won’t wear your component out as fast an in your ar.

Here’s my master race alpha bitch (sgl 31 worked on by definitive arms)

 

[Raffy]

You cant complete a well rounded caliber aquisition without a shotgun. Just sayin'

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Why make it a one-or-the-other choice?

I *will* say that the Howa mini in x39 is noticeably lighter than a Marlin 336.

 

[BroncoFan85]

I have a Sig 556R...love it!

 

[Longbow1Marine]

Definitely, pick up an SKS and a bullpup kit from sgworks.com. Great kit. Takes a muzzle-heavy bulky rifle and turns it into a great little CQB rifle that is very well balanced and a blast to shoot. Makes a great little coyote gun too.

 

[teslawasframed]

I'd recommend you pick one up if you're at all interested. AK Operators Union does a lot of helpful educational videos and reviews if you're not sure what to look at. Arsenal makes great stuff, but I can't bring myself to pay $1k+ for an AK. I own a PSA GF3 (only mod is GG&G ghost ring sights) and it eats whatever I feed it and hasn't hiccupped (5k+ rounds). Golden Tiger and Tula's 8m3 load work best, everything else runs well enough. I'm not an expert shooter by any means, but I can run my department's patrol rifle qual in half time and shoot fist-sized groups with my poor man's AK...maybe I got lucky when I bought mine, but it's far from a "spray and pray" rifle.

I've also got Century's "Krink" - style braced pistol that runs like a champ, but I've yet to reach the 2k round mark with it. I've shot enough SKS' to echo the recommendations of others here and suggest a SKS if you're just wanting something cheap that shoots 7.62x39...it's still somewhat reasonably priced, and available online and locally. I've decided to sit on my 5.56 stockpile due to price, and focus on adding to my stock of AK food.

At the end of the day, it's good to have options. An AK isn't as sexy as a tricked-out AR, but it'll kill anything in my area on four legs or two, is easy to run and keep running, and doesn't cost much compared to other fighting rifles. If you've got your other bases covered, have the extra cash and think you want one, you definitely need one.

*edited for clumsy thumbs*

 

[Expert308]

I had never actually shot or even handled an AK until last month, when a friend of mine built one from a kit be bought online someplace. I wasn't terribly impressed. We were shooting off a bench, which is probably the worst (i.e., least comfortable) way to shoot a rifle like that. It smacked me in the nose about every other shot. Firing it standing from either the shoulder or the hip would, I'm sure, be a lot more fun. He had some steel-cased ammo for it, either Tula or Wolf, I don't recall which. It went bang every time.

I've always held that an AK is one of those guns that "Everybody ought to have one of" (along with a 1911 .45, an AR, a 12ga pump, a bolt gun in a hunting caliber, and a decent .22LR rifle), but I've resisted buying one mainly because I don't really want to have to start stocking yet another variety of ammo.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

AK's are for short range noobs. I had the "Mercedes Benz," of AK's the SIG 556R. The recoil (even with custom brass hand loads) was horrible! If you're gonna need a reliable CQB weapon maybe, But anything over 100 yards is a crap shoot with an AK, and likenI said the recoil is way much for consistently accurate follow up shots. I used to pull the X39 & X54 steel core bullets from the ammo and for sh*to n giggles id dump the powder charges on a scale, the x39 had a 0.7 grain variance and the x54 had a 1.3 grain variance. AK....reliable, but terribly inaccurate and the way it jumps around with every squeeze of the trigger make its the noob gun it is.....spray n pray...
.

The Sig 556X is not the Mercedes of anything. It was a poor rip off imitation yugo piece of shit made by SIGUSA.

A Sig Sauer 55X, made in Switzerland is the Mercedes.

That's why you can pick up 556X for under $1k on the used market and 55X Swiss guns go for $3-15K each.

You also sound like you have little experience with actual AK's as 7.62, 5.45 and 5.56 quality guns shoot quite accurate for a combat rife despite drawbacks of the platform.

Your entire post makes my head hurt.

 

[AZgeek]

Crabs - Just for clarification, the "SIG SAUER 556xi Russian" is the NOT to be confused with the Swiss 55X correct? Are there any similarities at all between 55X and the current US made product?

 

[Son of Dorn]

I am trying to limit myself. I think 9mm, 5.56, 308, 6.5CM, and 300NM cover all my bases. Any argument to be made for picking up a rifle in 7.62x39?

I’ve been tempted to get rifle chambered in 7.62x39 (AK - either WASR10 or ZPAP M70, Bren 2, or Galil Ace) , but every time I get close to pulling the trigger I think “Do I really want to add another caliber?”. Especially considering I could get the Bren 2 or Galil Ace in 5.56 anyway. And then I think “Well I already have an LMT and X95, do I really need a Galil Ace or Bren 2...”

Have you considered a clone of the Iraqi Tabuk?

 

[walt willis]

I am trying to limit myself. I think 9mm, 5.56, 308, 6.5CM, and 300NM cover all my bases. Any argument to be made for picking up a rifle in 7.62x39?

I’ve been tempted to get rifle chambered in 7.62x39 (AK - either WASR10 or ZPAP M70, Bren 2, or Galil Ace) , but every time I get close to pulling the trigger I think “Do I really want to add another caliber?”. Especially considering I could get the Bren 2 or Galil Ace in 5.56 anyway. And then I think “Well I already have an LMT and X95, do I really need a Galil Ace or Bren 2...”

I've found that the SKS is more accurate then the AK but lacks the capacity.
The good news may be the availability and low cost of the ammo for both weapons?
If a invader from a non NATO block looses a truck load of ammo you would happy.
I would read some "What-IF" books like Holding Their Own, Enemies foreign and Domestic, Lights Out, Patriots, One Second After, and Unintended Consequences. I think the best all around weapon is the AR-10 as it will still be super sonic out to 1,000 meters and can use a heavy bullet with a can for quiet work.
You'll need a good dual sport bike and thermal poncho and NVS too.
Yes I am saying that we are soon to see another war as the cycle of peace and war is fixed as a human condition?

 

[BurnOut]

I've found that the SKS is more accurate then the AK but lacks the capacity.

Converting to detachable (duckbill) mags on the SKS is plenty easy, and I've never had a problem with them. That said, I certainly haven't tested them in anything remotely resembling battle (or even adverse) conditions.

 

[AZgeek]

In my limited, comparative testing, I too have found the SKS to be more accurate than the AK platform. Love my CZ 58 and prefer that over an AK any day. With that said ANY platform that shoots 7.62x39 is a must have IMHO especially in today's environment.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have a pair, a Yugo M59/66a1, and a Savage 10FCM Scout.

The Yugo is my only collector gun, still unfired (by me), and I you've seen one, you'll probably agree with me, it's a pretty cool rifle. IMHO, the SKS is the better service rifle for 7.62x39.

The Savage 10FCM Scout has the .308 diameter bore, and when loaded with HDY 110g GMX and IMR-4198, it's a very accurate rifle. I was going to use the Scout action to convert to a PPC chambering, but the original barrel and handloads have me thinking it's something like what a 30PPC should shoot like, at least for a sporter weight barrel. It has the choke throat that allows firing both diameters of ammunition.

I'll own these two as long as I'm still breathing.

Greg

 

[sirhrmechanic]

And no one has mentioned that after the apocalypse begins there will be the delicious irony of being able to shoot at communists using the only thing communists ever designed that worked. That’s gotta be worth something.

Everyone should have an AK or five.

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[Flightmurse]

Absolutely buy an ak. I have a SA-93 that’s heading out for conversion that will be my one ak to rule them all.
To those of you who don’t own an ak47, what do you do when you watch red dawn? Just sit with an ar on your lap? That’s just lame.

 

[Flightmurse]

Double tap, my apologies

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Crabs - Just for clarification, the "SIG SAUER 556xi Russian" is the NOT to be confused with the Swiss 55X correct? Are there any similarities at all between 55X and the current US made product?

This is correct. They share name and some furniture interchangeability but that's it.

There are some slight similarities but they are completely different actions and parts are not interchangeable.

Think of the Swiss Sig 55X guns as Modern Western Swiss AK. Its basically the finest built AK on the planet.

The SIGUSA 55x guns are a bastardized harbor freight version where everything is cheapened out. These sold for around $1200 with healthy profit. Its not a cheap gun to make right, hence why very few people bought the US versions, they are junk.

You can still buy real Swiss 55X guns new from JDI. They are generally $4K plus for rifles and 3.5k+ for Pistols (all are imported as pistols due to features and the import ban). here is a great example:

GunBroker.com - Error

The one sort of exception is the the US Made Sig 551A1. Still a bastardized cheap version, but they at least attempted to make them more Swiss correct. Sadly they are now highly collectable and are going for north of $2k. They were blown out by CDNN when SIG liquidated them for peanuts.

If you have the scratch, Swiss guns are one of the best investments in the gun world. Amazing firearms and they will only go up in value over time.

https://www.sanswissarms.com/news.html

 

[AZgeek]

This is correct. They share name and some furniture interchangeability but that's it.

There are some slight similarities but they are completely different actions and parts are not interchangeable.

Think of the Swiss Sig 55X guns as Modern Western Swiss AK. Its basically the finest built AK on the planet.

The SIGUSA 55x guns are a bastardized harbor freight version where everything is cheapened out. These sold for around $1200 with healthy profit. Its not a cheap gun to make right, hence why very few people bought the US versions, they are junk.

You can still buy real Swiss 55X guns new from JDI. They are generally $4K plus for rifles and 3.5k+ for Pistols (all are imported as pistols due to features and the import ban). here is a great example:

GunBroker.com - Error

The one sort of exception is the the US Made Sig 551A1. Still a bastardized cheap version, but they at least attempted to make them more Swiss correct. Sadly they are now highly collectable and are going for north of $2k. They were blown out by CDNN when SIG liquidated them for peanuts.

If you have the scratch, Swiss guns are one of the best investments in the gun world. Amazing firearms and they will only go up in value over time.

https://www.sanswissarms.com/news.html

Thank you for this info. Very informative!

 

[xtacleone]

Yes, buy a 7.62 x39. Yes buy a Galil Ace. If you can get the rifle, the mags and the ammo, you will be a happy man. Return on investment is near 100% or greater in these times. There literally is no downside.

 

[D46Infinity]

I’m very surprised but no one has mentioned the KAC SR47. Well actually I’m not surprised as it’s never been released to the public.

I was able to shoot one at a kac demo event and it was awesome! It was a post sample and just a kick in the ass to shoot. I asked if they were ever going to release them. The sales guy said if I got an order for 50 of them, kac would make them.
Other than that I would let a quality AK from
a reputable builder like arsenal or AK dynamics. One of the galil ace in x39 would be a good choice. My only AK is a Chinese made MAK90 that I’ve never got around to debaning(if that is a word) and I haven’t shot in years. But I do have about 7 mags and 1k rounds sitting in ammo cans. My dad bought it for me years ago and I remember when he bought the mags for 5.00 each from a local gun shop that had them sitting in a Rubbermaid trash can.
Sorry for the story telling, but you should buy a 7.62x39 for fun and enjoyment. Mine brings back memories of my dad and the fun we had before his passing!

 

[Bob Davis]

I am trying to limit myself. I think 9mm, 5.56, 308, 6.5CM, and 300NM cover all my bases. Any argument to be made for picking up a rifle in 7.62x39?

I’ve been tempted to get rifle chambered in 7.62x39 (AK - either WASR10 or ZPAP M70, Bren 2, or Galil Ace) , but every time I get close to pulling the trigger I think “Do I really want to add another caliber?”. Especially considering I could get the Bren 2 or Galil Ace in 5.56 anyway. And then I think “Well I already have an LMT and X95, do I really need a Galil Ace or Bren 2...”

While the semi-auto versions are nice, don't exclude considering a bolt gun. CZ makes a nice little carbine chambered for 7.65X39 that is surprisingly accurate even at moderate ranges even with the imported steel cased ammo which is still moderately cheap to purchase.

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

I’m very surprised but no one has mentioned the KAC SR47. Well actually I’m not surprised as it’s never been released to the public.

I was able to shoot one at a kac demo event and it was awesome! It was a post sample and just a kick in the ass to shoot. I asked if they were ever going to release them. The sales guy said if I got an order for 50 of them, kac would make them.
Other than that I would let a quality AK from
a reputable builder like arsenal or AK dynamics. One of the galil ace in x39 would be a good choice. My only AK is a Chinese made MAK90 that I’ve never got around to debaning(if that is a word) and I haven’t shot in years. But I do have about 7 mags and 1k rounds sitting in ammo cans. My dad bought it for me years ago and I remember when he bought the mags for 5.00 each from a local gun shop that had them sitting in a Rubbermaid trash can.
Sorry for the story telling, but you should buy a 7.62x39 for fun and enjoyment. Mine brings back memories of my dad and the fun we had before his passing!

I would not deban that at this point it is a relic of the 90s.

 

[Alpine 338]

Anyone have experience with the M&M M10? It's a Hybrid of a SIG 55X and an AK. I got a chance to handle one at Shot Show a couple years ago. Well thought-out platform.

Also, not to de-rail the subject. I recently read an article that Russia is considering switching to the 5.56x45 (NATO) cartridge when they start fielding their latest AK variant.

 

[Tonsofguns]

AK's are for short range noobs. I had the "Mercedes Benz," of AK's the SIG 556R. The recoil (even with custom brass hand loads) was horrible! If you're gonna need a reliable CQB weapon maybe, But anything over 100 yards is a crap shoot with an AK, and likenI said the recoil is way much for consistently accurate follow up shots. I used to pull the X39 & X54 steel core bullets from the ammo and for sh*to n giggles id dump the powder charges on a scale, the x39 had a 0.7 grain variance and the x54 had a 1.3 grain variance. AK....reliable, but terribly inaccurate and the way it jumps around with every squeeze of the trigger make its the noob gun it is.....spray n pray...
.

If you don’t practice with a platform you’ll shoot like a noob.
Plenty of guys out there that will demolish you in shooting with an Ak versus your race gun ar.
With regards to recoil there is plenty you can do to tame it down.
Upgraded Muzzle brake, and stock will do the trick. Many aks come with a slanted brake that does nothing for recoil mitigation, also I don’t like the stocks on aks and always replace them.
Lastly sig 556 is a low quality gun, and bears no resemblance to the real slim shady the San Swiss version.
For those who do want a San Swiss gun, be prepared to wait. October will mark two years that I ordered my San Swiss 751 in 6.5, but can’t wait to get it

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Back during DCM days, I chose to earn my Garand practice qualification by shooting a bunch of NRA N/M Highpower courses as proof of rifle practice, and used a nearly box stock Norinco SKS. The mod was my first glassbedding attempt. following the methods employed in a Garand Article. In review, it was quite a successful project, bringing the Norinco's accuracy into the realm of an issue grade Garand at the 200/300d range distances we employed in our Highpower League at Cherry Ridge, NJ.

I was getting into rudimentary handloading at the time, and made some stuff up using Hornady 123gr bullets and IMR-4198. While the trajectory was a rather high arc, and scores were not the object, it shot respectfully within the middle of the pack, and solidified my admiration for the simple implement.

I have had one ever since. IMHO, for the 7.62x39, it's the ideal semi-auto service rifle for closer distances.

These days, it could serve the purpose of a handout rifle for perimeter defense well enough. Right now, my SKS is a Yugo M59/66a1, and it's still a virgin, sitting in my rifle cabinet, unfired, ever in my possession; never gonna sell it.

Greg

 

[Garyd903]

Just to throw my 2 cents in. I have built two are pistols with 10.5” barrels in 7.62 x 39 both have red dots and buis. Both are reliable and 3” accurate to 100 yds. I have a Saiga rifle the is as reliable as any as , it is good for 2.5 inch groups at 100 yds. Then I have a heavy 20” barrel ar. It will do 1.5 “ at 100 yds. All of these are with wolf 124 g hp ammo. I have tried better ammo but the groups get bigger. I have no idea why. The guns I have like the cheap stuff

 

[texag0842]

I placed an order with Rifle Dynamics for their GT pistol.

Figured with as much as I'm shooting the 7.62x39 will save me a bunch of money

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

A PTR32 or VZ58 would be awesome. If you want the ultimate AK, find a Finnish Valmet. The Valmets are hands down the best AK’s in the world. Otherwise I’d go for a Arsenal...

 

[Muriner]

While the semi-auto versions are nice, don't exclude considering a bolt gun. CZ makes a nice little carbine chambered for 7.65X39 that is surprisingly accurate even at moderate ranges even with the imported steel cased ammo which is still moderately cheap to purchase.

I second that. I just got CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39 and it's a blast. Using cheap tula/wolf I can still hit plates at 200 yd with iron sights. Well balanced and light.

The quality of CZ rifles seems to have got down a bit right now - insane demand seems to impact QC but they are still very good. (My rear sight got detached after ten rounds - literally flew away, thankfully I found it. But once I tightened the screws it seems to behave fine)

 

[Mudburner]

I would not deban that at this point it is a relic of the 90s.

People do it every day. Chinese MAK 90 is a ban-era rifle imported by the millions and has ZERO collector value, as is. It is a neutered version, with grinded off parts and political stink attached, as well as lingering 80's era FUDD "POS Commie crap" stigma. After 30 years, people who use them know the difference. Chinese can make some good stuff... when they want to... AK is a cheap gun, cheaply made. They work. Its just another hammer in the toolbox.

MAK90 (especially milled version) is a decent quality rifle. Powy tech Wegend is a vewwwy, vewwwy nice type thwee wifle. Hehehehe. (Elmer Fudd voice)

 

[Disfunctional_Engineer]

People do it every day. Chinese MAK 90 is a ban-era rifle imported by the millions and has ZERO collector value, as is. It is a neutered version, with grinded off parts and political stink attached, as well as lingering 80's era FUDD "POS Commie crap" stigma. After 30 years, people who use them know the difference. Chinese can make some good stuff... when they want to... AK is a cheap gun, cheaply made. They work. Its just another hammer in the toolbox.

MAK90 (especially milled version) is a decent quality rifle. Powy tech Wegend is a vewwwy, vewwwy nice type thwee wifle. Hehehehe. (Elmer Fudd voice)

Its more so you can explain to your kids and grandkids that people actually thought making a semi automatic rifle like that would save lives. If you have educated them well they would look at you like you are crazy.