Hunting & Fishing Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

[Anchor Zero Six]

As if I needed another damn expensive hobby...I got the archery bug in a bad way.

About two months ago I purchased a 50lb PSE Kudu takedown recurve thinking it would be neat to have a takedown to take hiking camping and maybe try my hand at bowfishing.

Well after a steep learing curve I discovered there is much to this traditional archery thing but I'm making decent progress. In hindsight I would have probably selected a different bow but for now think I'll keep the PSE for the original intended use.

Now I'm wanting to get a longbow. I have read many positive reviews on the Bear Montana but this go around I'm willing to spend a bit more if it is worth it to step up to a better bow. The only longbow I have shot was the Bear Montana at a local shop and it was instant grins as my first two arrows hit the bull and were within an inch of each other (it was a 55lb bow).

Been looking at Howard Hill bows (Wesley Special) as they can be ordered a bit shorter than an off the shelf bow as well as they have a few in stock that meet my specs.

FWIW I have a freakishly short draw at 25.5" (I'm 5'10") anchoring my middle finger at the corner of my mouth. I have tried going back further to my thumb at the earlobe but my accuracy goes to crap as I cant sight down the shaft as well from that position. This is one of the reasons I'm looking at a custom vise stock bow.

Any advice welcome esp concerning Hill bows. I relize this is something that requires much practice and thats one of the attractions for me is that I can shoot my bow for 30-60 min daily in my backyard as opposed to hitting the rifle range...much cheaper to reload the ammo as well

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Well, after you shoot a longbow for a while then you can go real oldschool and make a selfbow, then chokecherry shafts, self nocks, split your own fletching and maybe stone points. There's something special about killing game with your own handmade gear. It's hard for me to visualize someone 5'10" only having a 25 1/2 inch draw, how are you measuring that? Unless you are having a bow made for you they are spec'd at a 28" draw, so a 55# bow at 28" might only be 46# at 25 1/2" (just in case you didn't know, if so just humor me.) Do a little research on instinctive shooting, it's a much better method than looking down the arrow shaft and ultimately will make your traditional archery more enjoyable. Now to your original question, I gave up fiberglass for wood over 20 years ago and don't know squat about the H Hill line of bows. Howard's "Hunting the Hard Way" is a fair read though.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Thanks for the much needed info.

Regarding draw length, I went to Cabellas and they marked the uncut arrows 1/2" in front of the shelf (for broadhead clearance) the finished length of the arrows is 26" so I assume that means my draw length is 25.5? They had me draw the bow back to my anchor point 3-4 times rest and repeat to get that average. Is this the correct meathod?

Also to be fair this was on week two of being a new recurve owner, what I'm finding is as I build up muscle memory I'm starting to almost overdraw my arrows. So perhaps I should measure my draw again now that I have been shooting several times a week for a while now.

I'm not ready to go the selfbow route just yet but I am getting my arrow building gear together and plan to start making my own from wood shafts for whatever longbow I decide on.

Regarding the power at various drawlengths I was aware of that and thats one of the reasons for looking at a custom bow as I want a 55 lb bow thats actualy 55lb at my drawlength vice getting a 60 lb and hoping its 55 at my draw.

Since posting this topic I contacted HH and they were very helpful. I have yet to turn up anything negative in close to 50 reviews and thats excluding the HH specific sight. 5 laminates of bamboo with a fiberglass face seems to be a bow that should hold up for years. Only thing holding me back is the bear is 300 less and I could spend that money elsewhere such as arrowbuilding materials as well as log some time getting aqainted with the longbow.

I'm finding more and more the less I diliberatly aim the better I shoot, I guess thats instinct shooting. I draw as I'm coming up on target and get my point on the target and loose the arrow. More often than not it works well.

Now the question is split finger or three under? Trying both and three under is much more forgiving but if I go custom I need to stick with one or the other as they will tiller the bow differently for a three under draw.

R/
A06

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

To get your draw length, go in and take a tape and measure with your arms spread out to the max. Take the number from tip to tip and divide by 2.5. This is your draw length. If you want to get good, keep your weigh down, and look to staying with the recurve. Black Widow, Stumbo. They make good bows, be ready to shell out + 1k. The Hill bows are nice, the are not the softest shooting bows, but they are not as forgiving as a recurve. As for the 3 fingers under or split question, both Fred and Howard shot split. Point of fact, most of the great bowmen, Glenn St Charles, Curt Lynn, G Fred Asbelt, ect the all shot with split fingers.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Alaskaman 11,

Not to be argumentive as you obviously know considerably more about this subject than I...but I thought that formula only applied to a compound? Way I understood it a compound has a fixed draw length, when its at full draw its at full draw. Regarding a traditional bow would your draw length not change depending on where you "index" from?

Currently I index by touching the tip of my middle finger on my string hand to the corner of my mouth. Tried a kisser button but found it faster to use my finger.

By saying they are not soft shooting are you refering to hand shock? I keep reading about it but have not yet had that issue with my Kudu recurve or the few others I have tried. Assume its one of those things you will KNOW when it happens huh?

Thanks for the advice

R/
A06

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alaskaman 11,

Not to be argumentive as you obviously know considerably more about this subject than I...but I thought that formula only applied to a compound? Way I understood it a compound has a fixed draw length, when its at full draw its at full draw. Regarding a traditional bow would your draw length not change depending on where you "index" from?

Currently I index by touching the tip of my middle finger on my string hand to the corner of my mouth. Tried a kisser button but found it faster to use my finger.

By saying they are not soft shooting are you refering to hand shock? I keep reading about it but have not yet had that issue with my Kudu recurve or the few others I have tried. Assume its one of those things you will KNOW when it happens huh?

Thanks for the advice

R/
A06 </div></div>

You do have a hard index point, well as long as you have teeth the top of your head. Use a tooth, corner of your mouth moves, your top teeth don't. The figure will give you a base draw length to work from. Keep going to the same anchor point, it's just like a compound, well at least a finger shooting compound.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Good point with using teeth, gonna try that.

Well I found a good video on youtube by 3 rivers archery shop. They showed 3 methods to measure draw length. Tried all three and come up with 26" each time. Also just measured my arrows that Cabellas made for me and they are 26" as well at the insert face.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

To be honest, your 5'10 you should be 27 1/2 or 28 with a long bow or a recurve. What size of dress shirt do you wear?

 

[kytrapper]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

I can see the draw being a lil different that the norm - I am only 6-4 but have a 33.5" draw - please no bigfoot hunters and I have heard most of the knuckle dragger jokes - it caused me accuracy issues for years till i got a bow that fit - as a kid shot recurve instinct till i got my growth and didn't have anything that fit-

word of advice on youor suggested usage - you will need to relearn your aimpoint for bowfishing refraction angles of light on the water depth of fish ect.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Hey, no worries on the draw length.............I just thought it seemed a little odd, it is what it is. Three Rivers Supply has a pretty good selection of Traditional supplies, their catalog is better than their website. Fred Asbel (I think) has a good book on instinctive shooting but the method will allow you to just pick a spot where you want the arrow to land and fire away. That allows you to hit moving targets, which is a blast! Once you figure it out, you'll never go back to a static sight method. Well, as the cliche goes..............."Welcome to the brotherhood!"

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Good info guys I appreciate it!

Not too concerned about the drawlength being abnormal as already stated it is what it is. The myth about a persons height being the same as the distance from middle fingertip to middle finger tip is a wives tale, everybody is a bit different. Main thing is practiceing as much as possible and getting a bow that will be at the weight I desire at my draw length.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

If you are overdrawing a long bow, it might pay to get a longer bow. I'm about 6' 3"-6' 5", and I had a 60" fiberglass backed lemonwood long bow as a teen. Ran 50-60lb at full draw.

My older brothers were tyrants, made me learn to shoot flying clay birds. One thing about the 60 pounder, those shafts got there <span style="font-style: italic">right now</span>!!! I never used sights or a release, my instinctive draw anchors with thumb tip against my canine tooth, and sighting is done eyeball to arrow tip.

In the 1970's I briefly resurrected my skills shooting comp with the Essex Archers in NJ. They would use some of those counter weighted glass recurves, 35lb draw. At 100yd, they had to angle their butts back to handle the arc, but my shafts flew a lot straighter. Too much crass rivalry, I went on to smallbore shooting.

These days a torn left shoulder joint and mediocre healed fractured left humerus prevents archery. It also interferes with slinging up. Left elbow will <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> rotate to go directly beneath the forend.

Greg

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Been a while so here is the update.

First my draw was measured wrong and as many said I should be around 27" and not 26". Turns out I'm at 27.5 which is great as it gets me closer to the desired draw weight.

I ended up with a 55lb Martin Savannah longbow and couldnt be happier with it. Running alauminum and wood shafts its a tack driver. While I'm a far cry from being any sort of archery pro, I'm pleased to be able to get 3 arrows inside the 6" circle at 20 yards.

Surprised at how much "tuning" is involved with a longbow. Once the tuning is done the effort really pays off so no complaints about that.

Made a string jig and I have been playing around with making flemish strings...some turned out better than others.

 

[hombre]

Re: Any lonbow archers here? Howard Hill opinions?

Once you go trad its hard to go back. Good luck with it as it will be something you can take great pride in. Everything with trad gear is a trophy.