Gunsmithing Any 'smiths with Weatherby Mark 5 experience?

CS223

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 22, 2006
175
1
Alachua, FL
Customer dropped off a .257 Custom model with accuracy issues. It 'patterns' with Weatherby factory ammo. It's an older rifle but a safe queen, it hasn't had more than 3 boxes of ammo down the tube if that. Bore is clean. It has a Bausch & Lomb scope sitting in a Leupold windage mount. The mount is tight, rings were retorqued to spec. Action screws were torqued to 35in/lb per factory spec. The Mark V action has a threaded recoil lug that is secured by the front action screw.

The elevation knob on the scope is at max CW just to get it on paper. Windage adjustment is nominal. The group size is around 6" at 100 yards when shot from a rest with factory ammo. Weatherby only specs 1-1/2" groups which would be a vast improvement from what it is now. Weatherby uses a 'pressure pad' which is just a bump in the stock barrel channel to stabilize the thin barrel. This concerns me as far as shooting from a rest but the owner has similar results shooting prone without a rest.

I believe the problem is with the stock and the reason I am suspect of it is when you tighten either action screw by itself, the opposite end of the bottom metal sits proud of the stock. Installing the second screw results in distortion of the bottom metal though it's not visible and function isn't impaired.

What I suspect is happening is that the receiver is being pulled down into the stock and bowing the barrel upwards. I haven't had the opportunity to set the rifle up and put some DTI's on it to make measurements. I'm researching the issue at the moment, I've read mixed results in regards to bedding the Mark V action, some say bedding one makes things worse, some say floating the barrel makes things worse as well.

Intuition is telling me to install pillar(s) & bed it to remove all the stress from the action, remove the pressure pad from the forearm and simply bed that area to provide neutral barrel contact. Unlike a Remington action, there isn't much room for a pillar at the bottom of the recoil lug pocket. The bottom metal without fasteners sits level in the inlet so bedding it would be an improvement.

I'm looking for input at this point hopefully from someone who has worked on the Mk V.
 
I have done a few rifles with pressure point bedding. PITA and if somebody knows of a quicker way I am all ears.
With this being an older rifle stock compressibility is definitely a concern and I think your logic is sound.
I would note the amount of pressure on the barrel, remove the pressure pad and proceed with the pillar and no stress bedding of the action.
Then reproduce the pressure point with card stock. Shoot the rifle and play with the pressure point location and amount of pressure until you find the sweet spot of the rifle. Once you establish that it is easy to make a pad out of bedding compound.
Like I said, a PITA and time consuming but it has yielded good results.
The last MKV I did was happy with about 20# of upward pressure about 3" in from the tip of the forend.
 
I owned maybe a dozen mark 5s over the years. I had a few wood stock guns that shot like crap. I used to bed the lug and throw some shim stock in the foreend to make a pressure point for the barrel. It worked OK. It was my go to move on wood stock hunting rifles that didn't shoot well.

I had one gun, a wood stock 270 Weatherby, that could shoot close to a MOA, or even 1.5 MOA. I sent it back to Weatherby twice, and some third party smith they paid for. No one could get it to shoot. I ended up selling it.

For what its worth I had a 340 Weatherby that shot sub 1/2 MOA all day long. Great rifle. 250 nosler partition at 2,900 FPS. I exploded a duiker with that thing back in 00.
 
I love Weatherby's. Take one over a 700 or Win 70 any day. Just bed the action stress free with the only difference is no tape on the bottom of the lug. The recoil lug must be supported with bedding material or it just bends the front of the action down. No need to try to put a small pillar in there. I torque to no less than 45 inch pounds on a bedded stock. No bedding under the barrel anywhere. I like the barrels free floated.

The reason the scope is maxed out is it has the wrong scope bases on it. Real Mark 5 bases are at least .020" taller in the rear than the Remington bases that are on there. They are not interchangeable despite the bolt pattern being exactly the same. I suggest losing the windage adjustable style rings. Double dovetails or Talley's are preferred. Really look the crown over. You might touch it up anyway. Then dial in that trigger to 1 to 1 1/2 pounds and this thing will sing. Prepare to be amazed. My 257 shoots 1/4 MOA. It likes 110 Accubonds and 75 grain V-Max's.
 
Not being able to get on paper at 100 yds would be a critical issue and I would make sure your barrel is fitting into the stock channel properly and what does Custom mean? Weatherby actions are particular about tightening the action screws and applying a small dab of thread locker on both screws! Loose screws will allow bolts to loosen over time making groups open! I would suspect the wrong rear base as Mark V actions have a taller rear base than Vanguard! Most of these issues come from people trying to use the wrong sized Remington base applications on the Mark V ! It is not tall enough ! What contour barrel was used in the build, and what was done to the factory stock and is it a wood stock?
Wby Quote:
We have found through our testing that barrels having a smaller outside diameter than our #3 contour require upward pressure to help stabilize the barrel for increased accuracy. Our free floated barrels have enough rigidity in the barrel for them to be free floated.

Remington bases are different for LA & SA in rear heights and it's a known fact that when using the wrong Remington base on the rear of a Mark V you will have this issue of not being on paper! I would make 100 % sure you had the proper bases and even swap scopes before messing with the stock as I have several Mark V's and never an issue with any of them not shooting under an inch at 100 yds! Other than the one I screwed up by not using thread locker ( blue ) on the action screws which took time to open the groups but this was on a 300 Wby which has way more recoil factors going on than a 257! If the wrong contour barrel was used on a barrel channel that was not inletted properly for the new contour barrel that would also cause an issue but I think you have wrong scope base on rear of the action to start with? No I am not a smith but I have seen some smiths that I would not let them work on a daisy BB gun! Have been doing most of my own work but never done much stock work but have learned a butt load since I own 7 Weatherby Rifles! Hope some of this might help ! Terry
 
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Proper bedding should help. Barrel pad or not shouldn't make a difference if stress free.
bedding9-22-11.jpg
 
Put a 10th indicator on the front action bridge of one of your barrel padded rifles and put the indicator needle on the center of the action. Zero it up with the rifle pointed straight up. Then place the rifle on a rest with support under the forearm and on the but as you would if you were shooting it. You will see the indicator move. Put pressure down on the stock. It will move more. A fully free floated rifle will not move with the same test.
 
I bought a 416 a few years back with probably the worst bedding job I have ever seen. I hate to say it but it appeared to be from the factory which seems to use a light green fiberglass. Sounds very similar to your problem - there was so much glass that the front of the receiver was way above the stock. And the bedding wasn't even, when you tightened the screw the barrel pushed to the side. The solution was simple - just chisel/grind/sand off all the glass until the bottom of the receiver makes firm contact with the stock and after tightening the action screws to the correct torque the entire barrel is free floated. You should tighten the rear screw first (I tighten both screws firm then torque the rear, then the front to specs). You may also want to check that the rear of the recoil shoulder on the receiver is making good contact with the stock. Now shoot it and see how it does, you can now always go back and rebed the barrel if the rifle does not shoot well.
 
A barrel pad acts as a fulcrum for the barrel. Being that close to the action any barrel pressure or even vibration can create incredible leverage on the action.

I hear all this talk about tenths and millionths...blah, blah blah. A barrel pad done in conjunction with proper stress free bedding doesn't hurt anything. ALL my work has always been checked via dial test indicator. You are quite frankly full of shit and yourself.

I guess all the other smiths that utilize pads suck equally....LOL
 
The LA700 base is definitely a problem, pull it off, and it had poor contact & fit to the receiver. Got some correct Talley bases on order . That will explain the elevation issue, going to re-sight it once the scope it set up and see how it groups again. There could be some slop or movement in the erector tube with it being at the elevation limit, going to rule that out first.
 
So what fixed the issue ? Removed optic and mounts ? Rifle shooting small clover leafs now?

It's still on the project list, the scope mount was a Rem 700 mount, it made poor contact with the receiver, in fact it looked like someone tried to super glue it to the receiver in a poor attempt to bed it. So I have to replace it with a true Weatherby mount. It's been in limbo due to the lack of ammo at the moment, waiting on the owner to load up more.
 
The scope has to been really stressed, I am very familiar with rem700 base issue on these, once the base(s) are tightened down the scope tube will have to flex / bend as the steel receiver will not.

Save the pretty wood for display and use a Fibermark / accumark stock with the alum bedding like HS precision style, my sons both have them on their hunting rifles, both shoot very well for light hunting rifles.

The boys have warne steel bases with Leupold rings.