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Anybody Shooting Handguns ELR?
- Thread starter Nevada Desert Rat
- Start date
I would go with MDT or XLR for good delivery times and there are all kind of weight accessories for them. The picture below is of my 33 Nosler in an MDT Chassis and I am running 250 grain Bergers in it with no recoil issues.
Thank you. I didn’t put two together and realize that most chassis types require a separate butt stock and all you need to do is not add that. A true duh moment.
Beautiful collection of Pistols. Thanks for the pics. You are light years ahead of me.
How long are your barrels?
Also where did you get the bolt actions to make the pistols?
I have a bunch more questions if your interested in helping out.
Weather permitting Friday I am going to go shooting for a couple of weeks. I plan on bringing a rifle scope and give it a shot. But first I plan on filming how much recoil there is and if its a danger to hit me in the face. I have been thinking about giving it a try. But I was not interested in getting hit. So you got me thinking and I hatched a plan. So thank you for the food for thought. Also if I can find me a bolt action for pistol it could mean a new gun in my future.
NDR
If you want to make a pistol out of a rifle the one way I know of is to get a tax stamp for it. Then you designate caliber barrel length and over all length. My contender frame has a P on it for pistol. I believe I can put a 16 inch or longer barrel and buttstock and it would be legal. But you cannot go the other way. I have been looking for an Thompson Encore my hope is to shoot 308. But I cant find one with a pistol designated frame. My understanding It is illegal to make a pistol out of a rifle. And now a days with the 80 percent rule debacle who knows what is legal.
NDR
Yet, one can buy an AR lower and make a pistol out of it by just using a short barrel. It’s done without without buying a tax stamp nor designating it to be a pistol. It isn’t a rifle or carbine unless one puts a rear stock on it. I’ve never heard of using a P designation on any sort of bare action, bolt or semi.
You’re out of your depth here.
It’s common knowledge that any receiver, such as an AR lower, which has never been stocked and chambered can be legally assembled as a pistol or a rifle.
To anyone in this thread I'd be weary of theses questions
I'm still wondering how to get our 300 blackout past 2000 yards.
Topstrap
Topstrap
You don't know what you're talking about. But continue. It is amusing.
It’s just an unintuitive parlor trick - it works because it’s a big bullet with a (relatively) high BC, but it’s not how most folks expect it should work, so it seems outlandish. He pushes a little extra speed by seating long, but at the end of the day, he’s doing stuff more akin to BPCR “punkin’ chuckin’” than what we think of in conventional LR or ELR. The wind is only ~6mils in a 5mph, which is a bunch, but considering 6.5 creed is ~4.5mils, it’s not as much as most would expect. Getting ~125mils of elevation is tough, but it’s just a mechanical issue. Raining rounds around the target is impressive skill, so if a guy has that, then it’s just a matter of statistical probabilities and certainties - because ~2/3 of the shots within a group fall within smaller than the middle 1/3 of the potential group size, and something like 2/5 shots, statistically, fall within the center 1/4 of the group size. So in other words, a 4moa group will hit a 1moa target ~40% of the time… it’s the same principle as the 7k+ shots, just gotta have the skills to be roughly centered on target, then round count turns statistical probabilities into certainties, and “the law of averages” does the rest.
This is the same as that .22 guy hitting a coke can at 700y with a 10/22.
Hit it in 10 shots? Doubtful.
Hit it once with 10 cases, maybe.
Maybe the dude faked the video, I don't know. But the math is what it is.
He likely hit it, just got lucky to do it in 8 shots.
10 FPS variation in velocity = .7 mil at that range. This is 3x his target height. Add wind and other variables and that target becomes very unlikely to hit with any repeatability.
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No I am not. If you do it. It is a felony. But on he other hand who would know? This argument got solved years ago when Thompson started making the contender. Yet again as long as law enforcement does not check it out. Its amazing what you can get away with.
NDR
You are still wrong. Go ahead and post the regulation that says what you are claiming. You don’t know what you don’t know.
ETA:
Maybe you are confusing the SBR rules that say you can’t make a rifle barrel shorter than X” without an approval and tax stamp. Or maybe it’s the shotgun version that gives you this idea.
What you are saying is that any action must have a “P” designation in order to be a legal pistol. Again we should ask you if you recall the XP100 pistol.
Maybe your confusion is that you think we are saying to convert a rifle into a pistol. That is specifically not allowed. However a bare action is considered undesignated until it has been built into something, be that rifle or pistol.
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Parlor Trick? Science does not care what you think. The science says it can get there. 1/2 MOA at 2200yds is just over 11 inch circle. My knock down Target is 12 inches wide 18 inches tall. It just comes down to calling the wind. And that wind likes to kick my butt. But then that is part of the fun. But every shot fired that I call the wind perfect will get a hit. Yet again mother nature is a powerful force.
NDR
I expect an apology.
Only took 30 seconds to find the law Clearly you never bothered to look.
Straight off of ATFs website read it and weep.
Can I lawfully make a rifle into a pistol without registering that firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
No. A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to...
No. A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.
[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]
Last Reviewed January 30, 2020
You are arguing with an informed person.
NDR
Yes I argued with myself wither I should ask the question. But then I figured I may get an answer that was acceptable. For the record I found an acceptable answer. I bought a Savage 110 PCS which is a pistol. I am not sure I like the MDT chassis on it. It comes with in my opinion a worthless 10.5 inch barrel. But since I have the barrel nut wrench it will end up with a 15 inch barrel on it.
NDR
I did not fake it. And you are correct the math says it can be done. So I went out and proved the math correct. At least 2 people here understand the challenge of getting serious with a pistol.
NDR
For the record I was looking for a bolt action that is designated for a pistol. I looked on savages website and found my answer. I naw have a bolt action that is designated as a pistol.
Your all talk. You wanted proof I provided it.
Now where is your proof?
You still owe me an apology.
NDR
Here, I’ll post some Google fu for you too:
Your proof is no lore than what I posted. All you “proved” was that one cannot convert a rifle into a pistol. Well, no shit Sherlock (captain obvious). As already said multiple times here, nobody said that’s what you had to do. We said to buy an undesignated action and build a pistol. Perfectly legal.
What you have proved is that you’re an unbearable snit that only knows what you know and therefore think you know everything.
You can apologize any time you want. I’ll wait…
Your proof is no lore than what I posted. All you “proved” was that one cannot convert a rifle into a pistol. Well, no shit Sherlock (captain obvious). As already said multiple times here, nobody said that’s what you had to do. We said to buy an undesignated action and build a pistol. Perfectly legal.
What you have proved is that you’re an unbearable snit that only knows what you know and therefore think you know everything.
You can apologize any time you want. I’ll wait…
I have 3 questions for you.
First how far have you shot out too?
Second. If somebody got it in 8 shots with a rifle would you still consider it Luck?
Third. Why are you coming after me with these claims of yours?
I got that same target on my second shot at 2200yds with my 338LM. I have no film just a witness. Yet again total luck. I have video of knocking both targets down with 3 shots with my 338LM.
I am not a lucky person. Yes I got lucky. But remember one thing I made the luck.
Dont insult me just because I like a challenge.
NDR
For the record, I don’t question what you did, not the thrill you or I get when we make hits on very far distances with cartridges or firearms not necessarily meant for that purpose. Some will never get it nor understand why we do these things and that’s okay.
LOL You are talking state law and I dont see any code numbers attached. Just some cut and past from someone that may not know anything.Here, I’ll post some Google fu for you too:
View attachment 8236114
Your proof is no lore than what I posted. All you “proved” was that one cannot convert a rifle into a pistol. Well, no shit Sherlock (captain obvious). As already said multiple times here, nobody said that’s what you had to do. We said to buy an undesignated action and build a pistol. Perfectly legal.
What you have proved is that you’re an unbearable snit that only knows what you know and therefore think you know everything.
You can apologize any time you want. I’ll wait…
View attachment 8236114
You still owe me an apology.
NDR
I suggest that you hold your breath while you wait.
You know, it’s okay to be wrong and admit it. Really, it is.
You are in the wrong place if you are expecting an apology from anyone, ever.
Sure…
1. 300 blackout subsonic 300 yards with a rifle. It was not super accurate. Not that it matters. I have shot rimfire further than blackout.
2. Yes 8 shots with a rifle and 300 blackout subs would be very lucky.
3. Not coming after you, just stating the facts that the shot was very lucky and likely not repeatable.
Go out and repeat that impact 3 more times. Let me know how many shots it took. Ill wait.
I used to believe your formula also. But Your formula is missing a couple of elements. There is more to it than just velocity and distance. I learned this when I was trying to figure out where my flyers were coming from. They were always high or low. Over the course of a couple days at over a mile. I was running them through the chronograph. I learned 2 things first the flyers were a direct result of the fact I sucked behind the gun. Second there was literally no induction form the chronograph wither impact would be high or low. According to what somebody had tried to teach me in the past. Your fomula among other things needs time and gravity added to it. Yes gravity. I have shot out as far as 2700yds and I have yet to have a stringing up and down issue such as what your formula would indicate.
If you watch my video what you dont know is I was struggling with the parallax in the pistol scope. The day before after I got done being whipped at 2080yds. I did a bunch of dry fire practice and learned something about dealing with the parallax. The first 4 shots in the video I was working more on the parallax than hitting the target. Then if you watch the last for shots I walk it to the right make a elevation adjustment then send the 8th round. Nowhere in that video do see any elevation issues that even remotely reflect your formula. My stringing issues are always left and right trying to call the wind. That morning the luck that happened was mother nature was very kind. Not the luck you claim.
Not only did I hit it. The question you should have been asking is why did it take 8?
You clearly have never shot very far.
NDR
1. How did subsonic enter into the conversation? For the record I have shot subs out past a mile.
2. Lucky with a rifle shooting subs maybe but not my Pistol supersonic.
3. Until you come to the realization that what is luck for you is not always luck for somebody else. Shows You are coming after me and insulting me.
Even if you were spotting for me I will never be able to knock that target over enough to satisfy you. You just dont understand.
NDR
the double triple and quadrupling down is great
brb guys. we're all wrong. ES and SD have no vertical impact at distance
brb guys. we're all wrong. ES and SD have no vertical impact at distance
My formula? You mean like Applied Ballistics and Hornady 4DOF.
You should contact those guys and inform them of things like time and gravity.
Alan Shepard once claimed that he hit a golf ball with a 6 iron that travelled 2.5 miles. Went into a crater, so technically it was a hole-in-one.
He really, REALLY isn’t.
An unassigned receiver 1) can be built first as a pistol, and then 2) forever onward be built back and forth between pistol and rifle configurations. So absolutely, if an AR lower - the receiver - or any undesignated receiver, such as an M7 or R700 or clone, or Savage Target action, which has never been stocked or chambered can be built legally as a pistol. AR lowers are not inherently rifles.
Give it up. He’s absolutely, positive that he’s right and no amount of facts will sway him. You should just apologize right now and save us all another page of his self-righteous bluster.
I’m really so excited to have someone here that knows so much to educate us all on the finer points of ELR marksmanship and gun ownership. It’s refreshing.
