Anyone ever get 'Meh' results with Black Hills 77gr OTM Mk262?

[TheGerman]

Build specs:

High Caliber Sales Mk12Mod1 upper w/ contract barrel
KAC complete lower
Ops Inc. 12th Model suppressor
UsOptics 1-8Src
ADM Mount

Tried some Black Hills 77gr OTM MK262; both red and blue boxes (by the way, there is ZERO difference between the red and blue so save your money) as I was wanting to try out the new suppressor and zero the USO. After some fouling shots, shots to walk the rounds in everything functioned 100% of the time but I could not for the life of me get a less than 1 inch 5 shot group. Wind was a steady 1-3 MPH and I held off with any gusts so the issue isn't wind, distance or some weird anomaly.

Only things I did notice were that the USO reticle is a bit thick, especially for smaller caliber/smaller target work so that may have played into it a bit, but not every group. Also, you guys are right about the suppressor mirage; I can see it becoming a pain in the ass after a while without a cover.

So has anyone had pretty mediocre results with this ammo? I am already in the process of shooting the rest to fire form the brass and reload for it and then test further but was very surprised by the initial results.

 

[BCP]

I got the same results out of my 18" white oak with a vortex 2.5-10. I think a lot of it has to do with the reticule and how the rifle is set up. That same ammunition out of my varmint AR with a high mag fine crosshair is 3/4 easy.

 

[ZLBubba]

I haven't had issues with that line of Black Hills ammo, but my experience generally has been that wringing out excellent accuracy in ARs really requires finding that honey load. I think it's just the nature of the platform, the ammo, and the expectations of a vast majority of shooters. When you buy an AR, even a top brand, I still think most times those rifles are going to folks that may shoot them 3-4 times per year and just want to punch a little paper with it. Expectations are pretty low, and so long as the rifle goes bang, people don't bitch and moan. Same goes with the ammo, though Black Hills definitely makes good stuff compared to the majority of the market.

You've got a great AR build and pretty good ammo. If you'd asked me before your tested that combo how likely it'd would be that you'd found a winner, I'd have given you better than even odds. Nonetheless, your AR build combo with the Black Hills pills just didn't work out, for whatever reason. I'd say try a couple different bullets if you can, and definitely check out some of the offerings by Copper Creek and Southwest. I bet you'll find one of those that shoots lights for you.

 

[Graham]

Look at the bright side: it shots better than 'pretty darn good' ammo.

 

[TheGerman]

Look at the bright side: it shots better than 'pretty darn good' ammo.

No no, that 1 flyer at 1500 yards was me! Otherwise it was a 1.5 inch group!

Now shut up and let me drink my coffee!!

 

[lennyo3034]

I did a barrel comparison using three different types of ammo on each barrel. Black Hills 77 grain was one of them, and did the worst out of both barrels. The other loads were Geco 55gr FMJ and 69 grain handload. I shot 100 rounds of the black hills, all in 5 shot groups and I think maybe 2 were MOA.

 

[RicosRevenge]

TG, I have (2) rifles with WOA 18" SPR barrels with Wylde chambers (1:7 twist) which are similar to your barrel.

One of them likes the 77 gr. OTM (SMK) Black Hill Match and holds sub-MOA at 100-300 (after that is just steel) with a 1-4x Vortex Razor. The other prefers the 75 gr. in .223 - but even still I have had acceptable (MOA-ish) results with the 77gr. OTM. Wish I had some answers for you bud. That stuff should shoot through that contract barrel as I thought is was optimized for the Mk262.

 

[atctimmy]

I haven't found a Black Hills round that works for me. I tried their 77gr match and their 69 gr match and, while both were sub MOA, neither got me excited. The best factory load I could find was the Federal Gold Medal match 69gr SMK load. It consistently shoots 1/4 MOA and I haven't looked back.

 

[Bill Larson]

No no, that 1 flyer at 1500 yards was me! Otherwise it was a 1.5 inch group!

Now shut up and let me drink my coffee!!

is this post written as intended...... or is the 1500 yds.a mistake...???

 

[tnichols]

We only have 1 precision AR15 platform, but have used a fair amount of the BH 77 OTM load. It's real consistent at 3/4 moa give or take a tiny bit. I believe the accuracy requirement during the development of this load was 1 moa or better for multiple 5 shot groups. I believe the other selling feature was the velocity (2750ish) which certainly helps the little 77 out in the wind. Long story short, I don't know that gilded accuracy (sub .5 moa) is going to be there unless it happens to be the rifles "favorite" load and you have a good driver at the wheel.

 

[LRRPF52]

Check your gas port for burrs on the HCS. Mk.262 has always produced stellar results for me and the students that come through my DM courses.

I had a HCS barrel that broke off a piece of the port, and went from a .5-.6" gun to .9"+. Bore scope showed the gas port damage blatantly clear.

Brass brush your barrels before shooting them. They might have a huge chunk of steel hanging in the port that will tear into the bore if you spit a bullet down it.

 

[bj1126]

Shooting SSA 77 gr SMK and I get similar results. The BH 77s shoot really nice for me in my LWRC SPR. Funny thing though the Hornady 75 grain Superformance shoot like utter crap. PMC 55gr does better.

 

[Captain Moroni]

I had a Rainier ultra match bbl that I couldn't get better than 1.5" out of with the Black Hills blue or red box. It may have been the bbl more than the ammo. That gun never shot better than just under an inch on the best days.

 

[rideHPD]

OP I have the same barrel but from Centurion, and mine is about the same with brown box MK262 MOD0, but really likes the 77gr SWA loading, typically below .5 MOA when I don't slap the trigger (I do with my Geissele, I suck). I'm either planning on trying some Copper Creek or just start handloading, depending on when I get my Co-Ax.

I feel you on the large crosshairs; I have a NF 2.5-10 for it and with the low mag and thick MOAR crosshair it isn't easy to split hairs. I didn't even know I was slapping the trigger til I pulled my 5.5-22x of my bolt gun tested ammo. If you have a higher mag scope it might be worth it to swap over just for load comparisons so you don't run the chance of blowing a group.

 

[j-dubya]

I have never had Black Hills 77gr stuff shoot very well in any of my rifles. It has always been 0.9" at its best for me. Now brown box Mk262 has been a different story.

Captain Moroni - I too had a Rainier Ultra Match that was absolutely terrible. Even with brown box MK262, it was 2" or more with every group.

 

[mjh30]

OP, got a MK12 mod0, contract barrel was from Monty (Centurion), Ops inc 12th can from Kevin at HCS and Steve at Adco put it together. I have used Blackhills MK262, factory seconds white box both lc and wcc brass, red box wcc brass and some brown boxed stuff. Accuracy I would say on average ran less than an inch at 100 yards. I have put together some hand loads that are more accurate at 100, but nowhere the velocity that the 262 loads achieve, 2800+ in my rifle. Quite honestly the round really shines at distance, last Saturday I shot a match using this combo, no times to load the 260. The targets were at 440 and 680 approximately, winds varying 7-15mph, only 4 rds out of 26 per stage were prone. I finished 8th, I was the only 556, mostly 6.5's 243's etc. It was my first time shooting this combo past 300, I came away truly impressed, so did a lot of my friends. At distance the combo is pretty awesome, its not a bench rest round at 100, but the combination at distance IMHO make it pretty darn good. With regards to blue box mk262, I never knew there was such a beast. Also for anyone's info, the blue box brass can be a little long since Blackhills doesn't trim it back.

 

[TheGerman]

is this post written as intended...... or is the 1500 yds.a mistake...???

Check out the video from Lowlight about 'pretty darn good ammo' and you'll get the joke.

 

[TheGerman]

Check your gas port for burrs on the HCS. Mk.262 has always produced stellar results for me and the students that come through my DM courses.

I had a HCS barrel that broke off a piece of the port, and went from a .5-.6" gun to .9"+. Bore scope showed the gas port damage blatantly clear.

Brass brush your barrels before shooting them. They might have a huge chunk of steel hanging in the port that will tear into the bore if you spit a bullet down it.

Will do. Didn't think of this.

 

[TheGerman]

OP, got a MK12 mod0, contract barrel was from Monty (Centurion), Ops inc 12th can from Kevin at HCS and Steve at Adco put it together. I have used Blackhills MK262, factory seconds white box both lc and wcc brass, red box wcc brass and some brown boxed stuff. Accuracy I would say on average ran less than an inch at 100 yards. I have put together some hand loads that are more accurate at 100, but nowhere the velocity that the 262 loads achieve, 2800+ in my rifle. Quite honestly the round really shines at distance, last Saturday I shot a match using this combo, no times to load the 260. The targets were at 440 and 680 approximately, winds varying 7-15mph, only 4 rds out of 26 per stage were prone. I finished 8th, I was the only 556, mostly 6.5's 243's etc. It was my first time shooting this combo past 300, I came away truly impressed, so did a lot of my friends. At distance the combo is pretty awesome, its not a bench rest round at 100, but the combination at distance IMHO make it pretty darn good. With regards to blue box mk262, I never knew there was such a beast. Also for anyone's info, the blue box brass can be a little long since Blackhills doesn't trim it back.

I'm finding out about the brass just in the last few days. All of the once fired brass is way over the 1.76 'time to trim' length with absolutely none of them being under 1.77 and the majority being 1.78-1.795

 

[997/2man]

The BH Mk 262 ammo works very well for me, you are right, the blue box is meh, around an 1", usually a little more. I had hoped that it would be a little tighter.

Red box and Mk 262 shoot close to a 1/2" with the one .223 I have set up for LR. Actually shot today, the Mk262 was the best, blue box meh, FGMM 69s were between the Mk262 and the blue box, in my rifle.

But if you aren't shooting past 200 yards...

 

[TheGerman]

The BH Mk 262 ammo works very well for me, you are right, the blue box is meh, around an 1", usually a little more. I had hoped that it would be a little tighter.

Red box and Mk 262 shoot close to a 1/2" with the one .223 I have set up for LR. Actually shot today, the Mk262 was the best, blue box meh, FGMM 69s were between the Mk262 and the blue box, in my rifle.

But if you aren't shooting past 200 yards...

Looks like my statement about them being the same may be off.

This was the first time out with the combo as my suppressor finally got its stamp approved and I was sitting on the fence about what optic to use for the SPR until now; the tax stamp coming back pushed me off and said its time to finally shoot this.

I plan on shooting as far as I can with this ~ 600-800 yards once I have the load/ammo figured out. I was just a bit disappointed with the ammo as I figured my only true hurdle would have been to either buy more of it, or find a way to clone it. Now it seems I am starting from scratch as far as reloading for it.

 

[mjh30]

TheGerman, it does surprise a few when they see how long the untrimmed brass used in the Blue box is. With regards to Blue box MK262, as I mentioned before I never knew such a beast existed. I am aware only of the Red box, factory seconds in white and the coveted brown box. The blue box 77, is to my knowledge not loaded the same as the MK262, actually I was under the belief it was loaded to saami specs, which would be considerably less than the 262 load.

 

[TheGerman]

TheGerman, it does surprise a few when they see how long the untrimmed brass used in the Blue box is. With regards to Blue box MK262, as I mentioned before I never knew such a beast existed. I am aware only of the Red box, factory seconds in white and the coveted brown box. The blue box 77, is to my knowledge not loaded the same as the MK262, actually I was under the belief it was loaded to saami specs, which would be considerably less than the 262 load.

Wish I didn't throw the boxes away but you may be onto something. I have 1 box of the red and the rest is the blue. I haven't shot any of the red mainly because I had so much blue and figured if it worked well, I'd have more to mess around with.

I just searched, and looks like the blue is in fact a SAMII.223 load (even though its loaded in 5.56 LC brass) and is 'great for plinking' . This may be my problem.

Here's a link to it: Triad Tactical, Inc. :: Ammunition :: Black Hills Remanufactured 223 Rem 77 gr BTHP MATCH

Bought this stuff when I ordered my suppressor, so its been loaded in mags for almost a year. This is slowly making sense now.

 

[PUNI5HER0311]

yup, I tried them a few times, mostly just to see how they worked and get a baseline zero. I was really stable and still couldn't get less that 1.5 moa @ 100 yards, so I said screw it, started loading my own with berget 77 otm's and now my shots are touching.

 

[leid]

Been using the BHA MK 262 MOD 0/1 load for about a decade now so have a working knowledge of it. The BHA 77gr. SMK Blue Box load is just .223 RELOADS. The BHA 5.56MM pressure MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge has been packaged in several different forms but always with new mil-spec brass: mil-spec MK 262 MOD 0/1 comes in a 20rd. brown box marked with AA53 (DODIC) , older lots of commercial first quality & SECONDS come in a white box, & current commercial first quality comes in a red box. If the box is not marked 5.56, it is not MK 262 MOD 0/1. Then you have the 77gr. SMK AMU MATCH load & USMC moly MATCH load marked AA67 (DODIC). SECONDS of the AA67 USMC load will be a 50rd. white box. BHA has manufactured approx. a dozen different magazine length 77gr. SMK loads. And the blue box .223 reload would be the least desirable for use as an accuracy loading in an accurized SPR type weapon at LR. The 18" 1x7.7 Krieger with M4 can I use gets 0.5-0.6" at 100yds. with MK 262 MOD 1 SECONDS or firsts; no difference in accuracy or MV (5 shot average 2825 FPS). But the MK 262 MOD 1 AA53 cartridge was developed as a weaponized 5.56MM tactical loading, not a MATCH loading like the AMU or USMC AA67 moly loads. The BHA AMU load or the SWA 77gr. SMK load will normally outshoot the BHA MK 262 MOD 0/1 by 0.1"-0.3" at 100yds. in my rifle. However, I have occasionally seen accurized varmint/full heavy AR15/M16 rifles that would shoot 0.25"-0.35" at 100yds. with the BHA MK 262 MOD 1 tactical cartridge when fired from a solid concrete benchrest with a high grade rifle rest.

Further Info: The BHA 77gr. SMK based AMU load & the SWA 77gr. SMK load are (2) of the most accurate mag length factory 77gr. SMK cartridges I have tested in this 18" full heavy 1x7.7 Krieger barrel. MV of both is within 10 FPS of the other at 70 degree F (approx. 2746 FPS). The major difference I see: the BHA AMU load uses a spherical double based propellant and the SWA load uses a Hodgdon EXTREME single based rifle propellant. MV with the SWA 77gr. SMK load varied only an average of 18 FPS from -10F to +135F. Accuracy of both loadings is about a draw in my barrel at 0.4"-0.5" at 100yds. in trigger pull conditions. However, most of my shooting is off a wooden benchrest or the tool box of my truck with the little orange rifle rest. I may be leaving a 0.1" or so on the table in my tests due to the sub-standard benchrest/rifle rest.



BHA MK262 MOD 1: 4.14"@500yds & 0.61"@100yds.

 

[Johnnny13]

I just got a MK 12 Recce from High Caliber Sales. I went out today to get my dope from 100 to 500 using BH 77gr OTM. At 100 the groups were not promising. All three groups were 1 MOA. When I got out to 500 on steel I got two rounds under an inch. I know it wasn't a 3 to 5 round group. I was trying to get a good starting point for my dope. I just wanted to point out that it does seem to hold up well with distance but not so great at 100.