Anyone here a heavy equipment mechanic?

[MK20]

I have a John Deere 831 track loader from the 1950’s that I need to get some work done on.

The track clutch/brake assembly is not acting normally and won’t engage/disengage properly. I was hoping I could run the problem by one of you guys and see if it is something I could fix easily myself or if I need a pro. And if a pro is needed, what is a fair cost/rate so I have a baseline to judge off of.

Thanks

 

[MK20]

Also, I know my track tension in the picture is loose. It has been fixed.

 

[AllenOne1]

Track tension actually looks about right. Steering brakes could just be linkage adjustment if you have to go inside it is a dirty job. I can't help you much.

 

[kcbird]

I don't know on the JD but the clutch on a cat 933 is obsolete. One big ass trout line weight if it goes out.
Where are you located?

 

[Tnc]

@mtequip

 

[Foul Mike]

I have 50 years of fixing things like that but I am not familiar with your machine, wish I was. Check data plate and write all of that shit down and figure out year of Mfg. and all other pertinant data on there.
Is there a dealership in your area that sells JD equip like that, not the AG line?
If there is, go to their Service Dept. and talk to the Shop Foreman and ask to talk to a Mechanic that may be familiar with it.
JD uses hydralic fluid under high pressure from a rotary piston type pump to do a lot of things from lifting the bucket to running the transmission, clutches, brakes etc. from a common source of oil that goes to all.
They use a specific hydaulic oil and it has always been more expensive than "Standard" hydraulic oil at the local Farm/Ranch store.
It used to be 303 oil years ago from JD but there were other brands that were compatible, but the cheaper Hydralic oils were not compatible and if Cheap Charlie mixed it in because it cost less, the result was often just what you describe, but they saved a $buck or 2 only to have these types of failures over time.
You can take a sample of that oil and have it analized to find out if you have the correct shit in there.
A word of Caution here, If you see an oil leak somewhere on that tractor DO NOT put your finger or hand down there to check it out, use a piece of paper.
Those JD pumps operate at such a high pressure that feeling for a small leak can inject that oil deep through your skin and cause you problems, BIG TIME.

 

[mtequip]

As stated above your track tension looks about right. Over tight tracks are one of the worst things you can do and will actually wear out you undercarriage and and steering brakes even faster. You can have several things going on here. 1) Your brakes could just be out of adjustment. 2) as stated above you could simply have a linkage issue. 3) If your steering brakes have already been adjusted as far as they can it may be time for new steering brakes. I’ve never personally dug into that model but you could be looking at 5-10 hours labor plus parts. Luckily it’s a Deere so parts should be out there. Most shops are going to charge anywhere from $80/hour to $110 depending on who you take it to. Ask around for a decent field mechanic that can come to you and save yourself the hauling if possible.

 

[MK20]

Yeah, I called the local Deere place with the year (1959) and the model and they didnt even have it in their system. I found a guy who owns jdcrawlers.com and he is familiar with the machine. He says i need to adjust the steering lever badly, and probably replace the brake. He sells the parts still and says it will probably run about 1500 for brake, clutch, and re condiitoning the final drive if I do it myself. I have never messed with a tracked vehicle before, but i am about to as the John Deere shop locally wanted about 5K for it without even knowing what the machine was. I am in N Idaho, so if any of you are local and experienced, I would appreciate help in a couple months when I start tackling this thing, lol.

 

[MK20]

Track tension was about an inch too droopy per the manual. The track actually tried to jump off when I went to steer the machine when I first got it.

 

[Bradu]

Not familiar with deere but cat steering clutch and brakes are pretty simple on the older machines. If it's like cat, you should be able to feel the steer clutches disengage and the brake engage when pulling the controls back to a certain point. Assuming it works similar on deere, gauges need to be hooked up and see what the pressures are and what they do when you move the controls.

 

[AllenOne1]

I'm guessing that these are dry clutches and not the newer hydraulic clutches running in oil. If so there would be no gauges required. I don't think it would be odd to see one side working while the other would not disengage. Like was mentioned above you should be able to feel it and determine what is happening in most cases by playing with it.

 

[Big357Peterbilt]

When I was younger we had a similar vintage deere dozer n when the torque converter got hot it didn't like to shift from forward to reverse and vice versa

 

[stevieb92]

I was a heavy equipment mechanic for an eastern PA JD dealer from 92 - 2000 and worked on a bunch of different crawlers like yours but never ran across that specific model. I've got a bunch of experience with the crawlers like a 450 (B series up through H). If it's like that style, the clutches are dry. When you get to the G series and newer, they are wet clutches. It's likely the clutches and brakes need adjustment; well hopefully anyway. There should be an inspection port on top of the clutch housing that you can remove to take a look inside to see the internal linkage. The linkages are prone to wear out too causing excessive play which leads to the clutches not disengaging properly. When repairing the clutches, there are special tools that you need to use to set initial finger height, but that can't be done without removing the assemblies from the machine. Like others have said, the track tension looks ok.

The work can be done by anyone with basic mechanical knowledge, but removing the master pin on the track can be a royal pain in the ass. A press or sledge hammer and pin punch is necessary. Also recommend a crane to remove the clutch housings from the side of the machine. That's not an easy task without removing side compartments. We had a special crane attachment that permitted this, but it was fabricated by us specific for the task. I'd be happy to answer any other questions.

 

[AllenOne1]

I was a heavy equipment mechanic for an eastern PA JD dealer from 92 - 2000 and worked on a bunch of different crawlers like yours but never ran across that specific model. I've got a bunch of experience with the crawlers like a 450 (B series up through H). If it's like that style, the clutches are dry. When you get to the G series and newer, they are wet clutches. It's likely the clutches and brakes need adjustment; well hopefully anyway. There should be an inspection port on top of the clutch housing that you can remove to take a look inside to see the internal linkage. The linkages are prone to wear out too causing excessive play which leads to the clutches not disengaging properly. When repairing the clutches, there are special tools that you need to use to set initial finger height, but that can't be done without removing the assemblies from the machine. Like others have said, the track tension looks ok.

The work can be done by anyone with basic mechanical knowledge, but removing the master pin on the track can be a royal pain in the ass. A press or sledge hammer and pin punch is necessary. Also recommend a crane to remove the clutch housings from the side of the machine. That's not an easy task without removing side compartments. We had a special crane attachment that permitted this, but it was fabricated by us specific for the task. I'd be happy to answer any other questions.

Steve
Are you thinking you have to remove the final drive to pull the clutch pack? On the Cats I have worked on we could unbolt them and pull them out the top without touching the tracks or final drive.

 

[stevieb92]

Steve
Are you thinking you have to remove the final drive to pull the clutch pack? On the Cats I have worked on we could unbolt them and pull them out the top without touching the tracks or final drive.

It was rare that I only pulled the clutch pack out. If my memory serves me correctly, once you pull the final drive pinion out, you could get the clutch pack out the top. By the time these machines came into the shop, there were a host of other issues that required final drive removal to solve. Mainly the final drive seal was leaking into the clutch housing. But since I never worked on this specific model it might be different.