I was talking to them about an ongoing issue with a rifle they built. All of a sudden their emails are bouncing. Anyone know if they have gone out of business?
Anyone know anything about F&D Defense?
- Thread starter JustBC
- Start date
I saw F&D in the title and went to get the popcorn. Disappointed so far.
https://www.eurooptic.com/fd-defense.aspx
It seems like EuroOptic still carries them. Hopefully just a vacation or working to clear a backlog. While sometimes they may be a little rude their products seem innovative.
It seems like EuroOptic still carries them. Hopefully just a vacation or working to clear a backlog. While sometimes they may be a little rude their products seem innovative.
I'de have to say it is not promising that this thread has gone on this long without them showing up to call people assholes or threaten some one with something.
I've been considering a fd308 lately.
Euro optic is local.
They only have the 22" version left.
And they're on sale.
Hesitant to post cause it's purely speculation but my thought was they were just settling off the rest of their f&d inventory.
Euro optic is local.
They only have the 22" version left.
And they're on sale.
Hesitant to post cause it's purely speculation but my thought was they were just settling off the rest of their f&d inventory.
Dude, from the sounds of it you'd be better off saving a bit more and getting a KAC IMO. Or some other high end rifle with stellar CS and warranties.
Why go with a company with tons of problems if you don't have to? Sounds like Eurooptic gave 'em a chance and now wants to be rid of it. Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on a rifle like that. I could build a better one. The KAC is so proprietary and has a cut rifle barrel already along with a great trigger, so it's GTG out of the box, no need for changes (not many you can do anyway). That's a rifle you buy. Or an HK. But for a run of the mill rifle? DIY it if you can. Or just buy an upper and put together a lower and go that route, still cheaper, still get a better rifle I bet.
I can vouch for the new SR25 20" 7.62 (I'd love the new 22" 6.5CM though!). It's a bad bitch. Fully ambi, all built into the rifle. The suppressor that goes with it is great. The collapsible stock grows on you as does the new keymod or mlok, your choice, FF tube. I may still get a fixed stock later but the SOPMOD stock is so solid and has such a great cheek weld it's really not a priority. Trigger was amazing and well built. And they're accurate rifles, subMOA out of the box. With handloads they'll generally do better than the factory target too (of course). Anyway, that's my .02 before you jump into something you can't jump out of.
FYI, a guy recently parted out an SR25 on here and literally sold the damn thing for quite a bit more than he paid for it. They don't make parts available that easy and stripped uppers and lowers never. Made me think of doing it to mine! That's uncommon resale value.
Well if I had it to do over again......
I don't generally trash talk on forums but my experience with F&D was bad.
Don't buy the F&D. Buy something else.
The EuroOptic guys are great. They back up what they sell. Unfortunately the F&D stuff (like many AR10s) is not standard. If something goes wrong you need parts. If the company is out of business (as of now F&D email bounces and their phone just goes into a recording) you can't get parts and you are fucked. Even on sale that is a lot of money to waste.
The deal was this, I got the rifle right as CA was banning them. I could not wait for a GA precision or such like.
I got the 22" 308. It is extremely accurate. Easily sub MOA. I am delighted with the accuracy. Not easy for a piston gas gun. The fit/finish is really nice.
It is OK shooting 168 grain ammo.
The problem happens when shooting higher pressure 175 grain ammo (M118, Federal 7.62 etc.) It pierces primers. Especially on hot days. It has always pierced primers. There is no rhyme or reason to when it happens. Adjust gas till the bolt will lock back, the brass seems OK then BAM.
When it pierces primers it bends the FP retaining pin. Then the gun is down until I strip it down, replace the pin etc.
I sent it back twice and it was not fixed. They were always "friendly and helpful" but the shit didn't get fixed!
I was told there was nothing wrong. The rifle was a "shooter" It IS a shooter but it is fucking unreliable. Piercing primers is NOT acceptable with FACTORY ammo. Infinitely adjustable gas settings my ass.
OK, better now.....
I am SOL with my F&D. A standard upper will not fit the lower. I will have to have something customized to work. That is not hard to do but the money I spent on the fucking thing was for the upper (Bartlein barrel, piston system etc.)
I am going to try a local smith to see what they can do with it. If they can't fix it I will get a new upper and move on.
I don't generally trash talk on forums but my experience with F&D was bad.
Don't buy the F&D. Buy something else.
The EuroOptic guys are great. They back up what they sell. Unfortunately the F&D stuff (like many AR10s) is not standard. If something goes wrong you need parts. If the company is out of business (as of now F&D email bounces and their phone just goes into a recording) you can't get parts and you are fucked. Even on sale that is a lot of money to waste.
The deal was this, I got the rifle right as CA was banning them. I could not wait for a GA precision or such like.
I got the 22" 308. It is extremely accurate. Easily sub MOA. I am delighted with the accuracy. Not easy for a piston gas gun. The fit/finish is really nice.
It is OK shooting 168 grain ammo.
The problem happens when shooting higher pressure 175 grain ammo (M118, Federal 7.62 etc.) It pierces primers. Especially on hot days. It has always pierced primers. There is no rhyme or reason to when it happens. Adjust gas till the bolt will lock back, the brass seems OK then BAM.
When it pierces primers it bends the FP retaining pin. Then the gun is down until I strip it down, replace the pin etc.
I sent it back twice and it was not fixed. They were always "friendly and helpful" but the shit didn't get fixed!
I was told there was nothing wrong. The rifle was a "shooter" It IS a shooter but it is fucking unreliable. Piercing primers is NOT acceptable with FACTORY ammo. Infinitely adjustable gas settings my ass.
OK, better now.....
I am SOL with my F&D. A standard upper will not fit the lower. I will have to have something customized to work. That is not hard to do but the money I spent on the fucking thing was for the upper (Bartlein barrel, piston system etc.)
I am going to try a local smith to see what they can do with it. If they can't fix it I will get a new upper and move on.
JustBC - I think you may find the primer piercing has to do with the firing pin and hole size. Mine craters the primers real bad but no piercing so far. A good gunsmith can install a bushing and reduce the firing pin diameter. I wish a JP high pressure bolt were compatible. I tried getting that compatibility information out of FD and of course that's all proprietary information.
JP has a really good explanation on their site about your problem. Check it out here. https://jprifles.com/1.4.7_Bolt.php?menu_select=HPbolts
JP has a really good explanation on their site about your problem. Check it out here. https://jprifles.com/1.4.7_Bolt.php?menu_select=HPbolts
This doesn't bode well for being "in business":
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public...ast_Texas_Machining__Manufacturing,_LLC_et_al
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public...ast_Texas_Machining__Manufacturing,_LLC_et_al
The reason I don't generally trash talk on forums is I almost always have to eat my words. This is no exception. They contacted me today. Pass the salt.....
Apparently they are still in business. Their email was down for a week. They asked for my address so they can send a new upper. I will keep you folks posted on the saga.
Apparently they are still in business. Their email was down for a week. They asked for my address so they can send a new upper. I will keep you folks posted on the saga.
Just because the Firing Pin Protrusion is within spec doesn't mean it isn't contributing to your pierced primers.
Also, primers are often pierced due to the gap between the firing pin and the rest of the bolt face leaving space for the primer to flow during firing. That is why some people get their bolt faces bushed to close this distance down and give the primer less unsupported area. Remington 700s are well-known for having a loose tolerance between the firing pin and bolt face.
Either way, primer piercing has nothing to do with the adjustable gas settings you mentioned earlier.
Also, primers are often pierced due to the gap between the firing pin and the rest of the bolt face leaving space for the primer to flow during firing. That is why some people get their bolt faces bushed to close this distance down and give the primer less unsupported area. Remington 700s are well-known for having a loose tolerance between the firing pin and bolt face.
Either way, primer piercing has nothing to do with the adjustable gas settings you mentioned earlier.
Would you send me the address you have been using to correspond with F&D. I have been trying for months to reach them the way they want you to.
I have been traveling a lot so haven't had a chance to follow up. I tested the upper. It performed better than the original. M118 and Federal 149 grain ball did not show significant pressure. I still blew primers with Federal GMM 7.62. I am willing to concede the GMM 7.62 may be a bad batch. I have a load of GMM 308 on the way. We will see.
Unfortunately when primers blow it trashes the gas rings in the adjustable gas valve. After that the gun won't cycle.
I am going to try to get to the range this week to test some more.
Bottom line, I had to jump through some hoops but they are taking care of me.
Unfortunately when primers blow it trashes the gas rings in the adjustable gas valve. After that the gun won't cycle.
I am going to try to get to the range this week to test some more.
Bottom line, I had to jump through some hoops but they are taking care of me.
