Anyone know how hard it is to register a solvent trap as a suppressor?

[harleyman1974]

Scorpion TITANIUM Muzzle Brake Flash Hider Works w/ Solvent Trap Kit D Sized Quick Connect

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I have been running the titanium scorpion on my AR mainly for the looks, but I am working on getting a suppressor for it. This one has the quick disconnect threads.

I like the look of this one for my build. There are plenty of others out there, but they're boring and don't really match my weapon style.

FLASHLIGHT D SIZED "TWIST " TUBE (MUZZLE PROJECTION) PROJECTION TUBE or w/Adapter

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I'd like to convert this trap to a suppressor. Anyone had any success or know of an FFL that takes others tubes and registers them?

 

[stello1001]

Here we go again!

 

[harleyman1974]

Here we go again!

LOL. Okay. I don't know what that means. I searched the forums but did not find my question or an answer to the question.

 

[Matches Malone]

ATF has entered the chat….

 

[wjwill]

Why not just just form4 a suppressor and have a warranty for an item that is actually designed to what you are wanting to do?

Form1 and Form4 are both a non refundable $200 tax to the ATF. The only thing you will be doing is saving money on the actual item in the beginning.

So you Form1 a "solvent trap" and build it after you get your form1 back. You go out to shoot and have a baffle strike, it cracks on you, ect. Well you are screwed because you don't have a warranty on your piece together item. You can't just make a new one to replace it, you have to go through the entire process again.

Now if you Form4 a real suppressor, you pick it up from the dealer and it is basically "plug and play". On top of that if you get a baffle strike, it cracks, ect, you have a warranty and it will be repaired. After repair, it is sent back to you and you are shooting it again without having to go through the long process a second time.

 

[hlee]

The ATF considered essentially any “solvent trap” kit to be a suppressor requiring serialization and a form 4 transfer.

Buying a solvent trap kit for a form 1 build is inviting the ATF to take up residence in your colon.

 

[BCP]

Scorpion TITANIUM Muzzle Brake Flash Hider Works w/ Solvent Trap Kit D Sized Quick Connect

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I have been running the titanium scorpion on my AR mainly for the looks, but I am working on getting a suppressor for it. This one has the quick disconnect threads.

I like the look of this one for my build. There are plenty of others out there, but they're boring and don't really match my weapon style.

FLASHLIGHT D SIZED "TWIST " TUBE (MUZZLE PROJECTION) PROJECTION TUBE or w/Adapter

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I'd like to convert this trap to a suppressor. Anyone had any success or know of an FFL that takes others tubes and registers them?

Hi FBI guy!

 

[MadDuner]

Scorpion TITANIUM Muzzle Brake Flash Hider Works w/ Solvent Trap Kit D Sized Quick Connect

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I have been running the titanium scorpion on my AR mainly for the looks, but I am working on getting a suppressor for it. This one has the quick disconnect threads.

I like the look of this one for my build. There are plenty of others out there, but they're boring and don't really match my weapon style.

FLASHLIGHT D SIZED "TWIST " TUBE (MUZZLE PROJECTION) PROJECTION TUBE or w/Adapter

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I'd like to convert this trap to a suppressor. Anyone had any success or know of an FFL that takes others tubes and registers them?

Wow.
Talk about a friggin' sting/trap site!
You people should be ashamed of yourselves!

Everything about that is made to get some gullible "almost" gun guy to think he can order that stuff and have it sent to his house - so the ATF/DOJ/FBI can swoop in and nab some big-time criminal for having that stuff? You are going to nab a bunch of young and dumb kids that don't know any better. Of course 100% of them will then be reported to the media as "Domestic Terrorists" and "extremists" and who knows what else - simply for not knowing any better. It will then pad the numbers you so badly want to point to.

I see on the profile you are from AZ?
Is that you Ray Epps?
Go glow somewhere else!

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Quick question fellow gun enthusiasts.

 

[CaptArab]

Hard to justify going diy with eforms and Yankees in play

 

[308pirate]

 

[308pirate]

Scorpion TITANIUM Muzzle Brake Flash Hider Works w/ Solvent Trap Kit D Sized Quick Connect

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I have been running the titanium scorpion on my AR mainly for the looks, but I am working on getting a suppressor for it. This one has the quick disconnect threads.

I like the look of this one for my build. There are plenty of others out there, but they're boring and don't really match my weapon style.

FLASHLIGHT D SIZED "TWIST " TUBE (MUZZLE PROJECTION) PROJECTION TUBE or w/Adapter

Upgrade your cleaning routine with high-quality solvent traps from FreedomGear.org! Designed for precision and durability, our solvent trap kits offer an efficient and eco-friendly solution for firearm maintenance. Whether you're looking for solvent trap adapters, cups, or complete kits, we’ve...

freedomgear.org

I'd like to convert this trap to a suppressor. Anyone had any success or know of an FFL that takes others tubes and registers them?

 

[shlouf]

 

[wjwill]

took a few moments to go look over the page. They are selling jigs to make auto-sears, selling tons of solvent traps, ect. Not a single place on their actual website does it list their address or a contact number. I even found them on Facebook and FB says they are located in Chandler, AZ. Also on thier FB page, if you click on the "INFO" tab, there is a guy by the name of Joe Clauson promoting their shit.

Webpage
Glowie gear webpage

Facebook
Glowie gear's Facebook

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

 

[cjs88]

I'm so unhip to the lingo. What's a glowie?

 

[MadDuner]

Entrapment is a complete defense to a criminal charge, on the theory that "Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute." Jacobson v. United States, 503 U.S. 540, 548 (1992).

A valid entrapment defense has two related elements: (1) government inducement of the crime, and (2) the defendant's lack of predisposition to engage in the criminal conduct. Mathews v. United States, 485 U.S. 58, 63 (1988). Of the two elements, predisposition is by far the more important.

Inducement is the threshold issue in the entrapment defense. Mere solicitation to commit a crime is not inducement. Sorrells v. United States, 287 U.S. 435, 451 (1932). Nor does the government's use of artifice, stratagem, pretense, or deceit establish inducement. Id. at 441. Rather, inducement requires a showing of at least persuasion or mild coercion, United States v. Nations, 764 F.2d 1073, 1080 (5th Cir. 1985); pleas based on need, sympathy, or friendship, ibid.; or extraordinary promises of the sort "that would blind the ordinary person to his legal duties," United States v. Evans, 924 F.2d 714, 717 (7th Cir. 1991). See also United States v. Kelly, 748 F.2d 691, 698 (D.C. Cir. 1984) (inducement shown only if government's behavior was such that "a law-abiding citizen's will to obey the law could have been overborne"); United States v. Johnson, 872 F.2d 612, 620 (5th Cir. 1989) (inducement shown if government created "a substantial risk that an offense would be committed by a person other than one ready to commit it").Even if inducement has been shown, a finding of predisposition is fatal to an entrapment defense. The predisposition inquiry focuses upon whether the defendant "was an unwary innocent or, instead, an unwary criminal who readily availed himself of the opportunity to perpetrate the crime." Mathews, 485 U.S. at 63.

Thus, predisposition should not be confused with intent or mens rea: a person may have the requisite intent to commit the crime, yet be entrapped. Also, predisposition may exist even in the absence of prior criminal involvement: "the ready commission of the criminal act," such as where a defendant promptly accepts an undercover agent's offer of an opportunity to buy or sell drugs (or NFA items), may itself establish predisposition. Jacobson, 503 U.S. at 550.

 

[cjs88]

I give up. Idk how to insert a gif. My BS in Cybersecurity failed me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[eklarsen]

For a federal agent you would think they could be more clever.

 

[jhoyda]

I’m not going to post a link. But this clown did the same thing over at ar15.com.

He even used the same screen name.

 

[MadDuner]

I’m not going to post a link. But this clown did the same thing over at ar15.com.

He even used the same screen name.

And even though we all pointed out the obvious.....
You know they will ensnare and entrap some gullible young people who don't understand any of the reasons why they are under arrest.

 

[hafejd30]

 

[NoDopes]

still lurking keeping an eye on his honey.

 

[harleyman1974]

View attachment 7977318 still lurking keeping an eye on his honey.

Keeping an eye on my honey?

 

[harleyman1974]

For a federal agent you would think they could be more clever.

A federal agent, seriously? why so many of you people live in fear of the ATF... It amazes me. You must have some seriously illegal shit in your possession if you think everyone who is looking to legally build fire arm parts is a federal agent. My buddy introduced me to a gun smith who has a class 6. He gets regular visits... granted he's like 90, but his statement last time we were in buying guns was, every time they come in I say you fucking commies, get done and get the fuck out of here. He has a legitimate business where he constantly gets visits and he has no fear. I don't like the ATF, but I certainly don't live in fear like you people do. If they show up what they will find is every gun in my possession is legal, stamped, and is mine. You people afraid of the boogie man too? They will find a bunch of ammo, but that's not illegal yet.
Good lord this forum is full of snow flakes.
And yes, he said he will complete the paper work for me. So just so you know, It is possible to LEGALLY convert a solvent trap to a suppressor, or so he says, we'll see when the paper work comes back.

 

[harleyman1974]

Entrapment is a complete defense to a criminal charge, on the theory that "Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute." Jacobson v. United States, 503 U.S. 540, 548 (1992).

A valid entrapment defense has two related elements: (1) government inducement of the crime, and (2) the defendant's lack of predisposition to engage in the criminal conduct. Mathews v. United States, 485 U.S. 58, 63 (1988). Of the two elements, predisposition is by far the more important.

Inducement is the threshold issue in the entrapment defense. Mere solicitation to commit a crime is not inducement. Sorrells v. United States, 287 U.S. 435, 451 (1932). Nor does the government's use of artifice, stratagem, pretense, or deceit establish inducement. Id. at 441. Rather, inducement requires a showing of at least persuasion or mild coercion, United States v. Nations, 764 F.2d 1073, 1080 (5th Cir. 1985); pleas based on need, sympathy, or friendship, ibid.; or extraordinary promises of the sort "that would blind the ordinary person to his legal duties," United States v. Evans, 924 F.2d 714, 717 (7th Cir. 1991). See also United States v. Kelly, 748 F.2d 691, 698 (D.C. Cir. 1984) (inducement shown only if government's behavior was such that "a law-abiding citizen's will to obey the law could have been overborne"); United States v. Johnson, 872 F.2d 612, 620 (5th Cir. 1989) (inducement shown if government created "a substantial risk that an offense would be committed by a person other than one ready to commit it").Even if inducement has been shown, a finding of predisposition is fatal to an entrapment defense. The predisposition inquiry focuses upon whether the defendant "was an unwary innocent or, instead, an unwary criminal who readily availed himself of the opportunity to perpetrate the crime." Mathews, 485 U.S. at 63.

Thus, predisposition should not be confused with intent or mens rea: a person may have the requisite intent to commit the crime, yet be entrapped. Also, predisposition may exist even in the absence of prior criminal involvement: "the ready commission of the criminal act," such as where a defendant promptly accepts an undercover agent's offer of an opportunity to buy or sell drugs (or NFA items), may itself establish predisposition. Jacobson, 503 U.S. at 550.

Someone with actual logic on here? What!? So yes, that would stand to reason, if I were ATF trying to some how ensnare you into saying, I converted a solvent trap but not legally in to a silencer it would be illegal... So why would I. And snow flake who said I did the same thing on AR15.com... WOW! That's amazing, people actually join more than 1 gun forum to find answers, that unheard of. You people amaze me.

 

[harleyman1974]

I'm so unhip to the lingo. What's a glowie?

I am glowing like an ATF agent... Apparently. Granted an agent asking if anyone legally converted a solvent trap, because I like the tube looks to attach to my rifle "LEGALLY" after having the forms and approvals in place. Because clearly that is what an ATF agent would be trying to parse out, is everyone who is following the laws and all.

 

[harleyman1974]

took a few moments to go look over the page. They are selling jigs to make auto-sears, selling tons of solvent traps, ect. Not a single place on their actual website does it list their address or a contact number. I even found them on Facebook and FB says they are located in Chandler, AZ. Also on thier FB page, if you click on the "INFO" tab, there is a guy by the name of Joe Clauson promoting their shit.

Webpage
Glowie gear webpage

Facebook
Glowie gear's Facebook

You took a moment to look over their page? Literally on the bottom of every page there is a link with an email, address, and phone #... Based on your responses though, you weren't really looking too hard. But shh, our little secret I built a secret site to ensnare people in to building illegal suppressors. Wow. You people are amazing.

 

[W54/XM-388]

And yes, he said he will complete the paper work for me. So just so you know, It is possible to LEGALLY convert a solvent trap to a suppressor, or so he says, we'll see when the paper work comes back.

Your "friend" is completely and dangerously wrong on that count.
The ATF has made it crystal clear that in their opinion "solvent traps" are illegal suppressor components and as such cannot be registered.
You are either seriously misinformed, have not paid attention to ATF rulings and actions in the past year, or are willfully spreading entrapping information.
I'm putting this here because somebody might come across this in a google search and think you actually know your stuff & get themselves in trouble.

NO you CANNOT legally register a "solvent trap" as a suppressor on a form 1, as per current ATF rules.

If you manage to slip one through the cracks and get a tax stamp, if there is any question later on or the ATF reviews the paperwork, you have an illegally built suppressor and must forfeit the suppressor as well as the tax stamp and hope they don't choose to take it further than that.

The ATF is currently going around demanding the collection of suppressors from people who recently bought a "solvent trap" or other "parts kit" and filed a form 1 and got a tax stamp.

Either A. Buy a legit form 4 suppressor from a manufacturer as normal.
Or: B. file a form 1 and document how you will be making the suppressor yourself from solid bar stock or standard pipe and solid bar stock, or similar.

I also don't buy the whole "every time they come in I say you fucking commies, get done and get the fuck out of here." It's very unlikely anyone legitimately in business, wishing to stay in business is quite so abrasive with the local inspectors.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You took a moment to look over their page? Literally on the bottom of every page there is a link with an email, address, and phone #... Based on your responses though, you weren't really looking too hard. But shh, our little secret I built a secret site to ensnare people in to building illegal suppressors. Wow. You people are amazing.

STOP spreading false and damaging information.

The ATF has made their position very clear and unless you want to spend your own money on your own lawyers while sitting in Jail, get the legal stuff changed and updated before you start suggesting any such things.

It's WELL known that the ATF has been going after folks that buy and sell "solvent traps".

 

[harleyman1974]

Your "friend" is completely and dangerously wrong on that count.
The ATF has made it crystal clear that in their opinion "solvent traps" are illegal suppressor components and as such cannot be registered.
You are either seriously misinformed, have not paid attention to ATF rulings and actions in the past year, or are willfully spreading entrapping information.
I'm putting this here because somebody might come across this in a google search and think you actually know your stuff & get themselves in trouble.

NO you CANNOT legally register a "solvent trap" as a suppressor on a form 1, as per current ATF rules.

If you manage to slip one through the cracks and get a tax stamp, if there is any question later on or the ATF reviews the paperwork, you have an illegally built suppressor and must forfeit the suppressor as well as the tax stamp and hope they don't choose to take it further than that.

The ATF is currently going around demanding the collection of suppressors from people who recently bought a "solvent trap" or other "parts kit" and filed a form 1 and got a tax stamp.

Either A. Buy a legit form 4 suppressor from a manufacturer as normal.
Or: B. file a form 1 and document how you will be making the suppressor yourself from solid bar stock or standard pipe and solid bar stock, or similar.

I also don't buy the whole "every time they come in I say you fucking commies, get done and get the fuck out of here." It's very unlikely anyone legitimately in business, wishing to stay in business is quite so abrasive with the local inspectors.

You live in AZ? I'll take you to his shop. I believe every word he said. Again he seriously is 90.

I get reading is some times a challenge for folks. But if you read what I posted, way back in the beginning and again 10 minutes ago.
"Your "friend" is completely and dangerously wrong on that count."
The Class 6 FFL who my friend introduced me has the ability to stamp a tube and put it in his books, and run the paper work. READ before you type. It helps reduce the confusion. Like is said a week ago... I was looking for some one who was an FFL who could get a tube registered, and I found one. So the snowies on this site can stop worrying, I am not coming with my ATF buddies to get you.

"The ATF is currently going around demanding the collection of suppressors from people who recently bought a "solvent trap" or other "parts kit" and filed a form 1 and got a tax stamp." -source? You're making shit up to sound credible.

 

[harleyman1974]

STOP spreading false and damaging information.

The ATF has made their position very clear and unless you want to spend your own money on your own lawyers while sitting in Jail, get the legal stuff changed and updated before you start suggesting any such things.

It's WELL known that the ATF has been going after folks that buy and sell "solvent traps".

Again, source?

They are going after the Chinese companies shipping tubes with drilled parts, you know... a silencer. But they can't shut them down because they are international and the same rules don't apply.

 

[msgriff]

You live in AZ? I'll take you to his shop. I believe every word he said. Again he seriously is 90.

I get reading is some times a challenge for folks. But if you read what I posted, way back in the beginning and again 10 minutes ago.
"Your "friend" is completely and dangerously wrong on that count."
The Class 6 FFL who my friend introduced me has the ability to stamp a tube and put it in his books, and run the paper work. READ before you type. It helps reduce the confusion. Like is said a week ago... I was looking for some one who was an FFL who could get a tube registered, and I found one. So the snowies on this site can stop worrying, I am not coming with my ATF buddies to get you.

"The ATF is currently going around demanding the collection of suppressors from people who recently bought a "solvent trap" or other "parts kit" and filed a form 1 and got a tax stamp." -source? You're making shit up to sound credible.

Do you even know what an FFL 06 is allowed to do?

 

[harleyman1974]

Do you even know what an FFL 06 is allowed to do?

Apparently not. My bad. Class 7 then, how's that. I know he has the ability to legally produce guns and said he can file the tube. I bought a Casull from him. He has built a 50 BMG for my buddy and a 338 Lapua . He does amazing work. I'll get a picture of the contender(s) my buddy has that he did.

 

[msgriff]

Apparently not. My bad. Class 7 then, how's that. I know he has the ability to legally produce guns and said he can file the tube. I bought a Casull from him. He has built a 50 BMG for my buddy and a 338 Lapua . He does amazing work. I'll get a picture of the contender(s) my buddy has that he did.

Please share the name or business address of the FFL 07.

 

[harleyman1974]

Why not just just form4 a suppressor and have a warranty for an item that is actually designed to what you are wanting to do?

Form1 and Form4 are both a non refundable $200 tax to the ATF. The only thing you will be doing is saving money on the actual item in the beginning.

So you Form1 a "solvent trap" and build it after you get your form1 back. You go out to shoot and have a baffle strike, it cracks on you, ect. Well you are screwed because you don't have a warranty on your piece together item. You can't just make a new one to replace it, you have to go through the entire process again.

Now if you Form4 a real suppressor, you pick it up from the dealer and it is basically "plug and play". On top of that if you get a baffle strike, it cracks, ect, you have a warranty and it will be repaired. After repair, it is sent back to you and you are shooting it again without having to go through the long process a second time.

Are baffle strikes common? Never thought of that part of the equation. Thanks something to think about. Maybe I will go the route of cerkote after all. I did not know that was a thing. Granted though, there are parts to replace the broken pieces should that occur. That's an interesting read, it not very common from what I can tell from the article.

What's A Baffle Strike? | SureFire News

If you’re a regular suppressor user, then you’ve heard the term “baffle strike,” even if you’ve never experienced one yourself. That said, there are a lot of misconceptions around the term that we’d like to clear up. First and foremost, what is a baffle strike? A baffle strike occurs when the...

surefire.news

 

[harleyman1974]

Please share the name or business address of the FFL 07.

I won't go that route. But from his website here are some of his builds. The dude is 90. That's all I need is to have a bunch of snowies calling him up.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Again, source?

They are going after the Chinese companies shipping tubes with drilled parts, you know... a silencer. But they can't shut them down because they are international and the same rules don't apply.

If you are that dense that you haven't been paying attention to the information ALL over the various 2A websites, social media channels, youtube streams and the ATF's own websites and announcement, why should I bother spoon feeding you?

It's MUCH more likely that you are a plant trying to put out false, illegal, entrapping information because you'd have to be a special kind of stupid to still be actually believing your spiel.

As to the Chinese companies selling kits and such, much like the Chinese companies selling happy switches for Glocks, those are a lot less "anonymous" than idiots suppose and plenty of folks have gotten busted for that stuff.

Again, you somehow have some serious refusal to accept the plain and simple answer that is in front of you.

Which is why folks are quite reasonable in suspecting you are trying to provide false information to entrap people, or make the site here look bad.

That's the only reason, I'm bothering replying to you, because this site comes up in Google searches and I don't want anyone to read your stupidity and think it's legit or be able to point to this site as a source of suggestions to do illegal things.

Tell you what, you don't believe me? Try calling up the ATF direct tell them you just brought a solvent trap and you'd like to pay the tax stamp to do the final drilling and turn it into a suppressor and see what they say...

 

[harleyman1974]

Tell you what, you don't believe me? Try calling up the ATF direct tell them you just brought a solvent trap and you'd like to pay the tax stamp to do the final drilling and turn it into a suppressor and see what they say...

They would say here is the link to the form 1 you have to file? https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...-and-register-firearm-atf-form-53201/download

Haven't accepted the answer... I have accepted that most people think a form 1 will be denied, which makes me want to file it that much more just to see if you're all correct.
I have accepted that anyone who does not live in fear when they have committed no crimes by ATF or other definition, is by definition of the snowies a glowie.

And I have accepted that I found my FFL to build the silencer for me using the tube I like.

However, the point that I did not know is that baffle strikes happen. That I did not know about. So I have learned something useful from this thread.

Seriously does your shadow scare you people?

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

If you didn't want people to find him, putting up pics that reverse image searches takes you straight to was not the move.

THE Gun Shop Gunsmith services Van Horn custom firearms

Full service gunsmithing custom barrels hunting varmint rifles Thompson Contenders Encores G-2 muzzlebrakes wood laminate stocks custom ammo loads

www.dvhcustomguns.com

 

[harleyman1974]

If you didn't want people to find him, putting up pics that reverse image searches takes you straight to was not the move.

THE Gun Shop Gunsmith services Van Horn custom firearms

Full service gunsmithing custom barrels hunting varmint rifles Thompson Contenders Encores G-2 muzzlebrakes wood laminate stocks custom ammo loads

www.dvhcustomguns.com

honestly, based on the the forum discussion, I did not think anyone would be savvy enough to find it. LOL. Kudos to you. There is a bright star twinkling tonight. Highly recommend him, if you can get through his hearing loss the stuff he builds is amazing!

If you email him, make sure you ask hey Dave, it is possible for a Class 7 FFL, like you to build a silencer. He'll probably say the same thing he told me, its not a guarantee it will get approved. But the reality is, if it is, I will have all the titanium parts plus the stamp fee for the total of around $550. Now, anyone seen the cost of a full titanium silencer. Just curious if they are going for $550 now, last check it was around 2k OTD.
So yes, while there is a process you have to go through, and you have to be involved with the big bad ATF, financially its much cheaper. While my motivation is purely tube design, saving the $1500 won't suck.

 

[W54/XM-388]

They would say here is the link to the form 1 you have to file? https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...-and-register-firearm-atf-form-53201/download

Haven't accepted the answer... I have accepted that most people think a form 1 will be denied, which makes me want to file it that much more just to see if you're all correct.
I have accepted that anyone who does not live in fear when they have committed no crimes by ATF or other definition, is by definition of the snowies a glowie.

And I have accepted that I found my FFL to build the silencer for me using the tube I like.

However, the point that I did not know is that baffle strikes happen. That I did not know about. So I have learned something useful from this thread.

Seriously does your shadow scare you people?

Get yourself an education below:

ATF Just FedEx'd Warning Letters to Thousands of Silencer Part Consumers - The Truth About Guns

About a year ago, Diversified Machine, manufacturer of Form 1 suppressor components, was raided and shut down by ATF and even their website was seized. They were one of a handful of solvent trap and Form 1 suppressor parts companies that suffered the same fate. Some, like Hawk Innovative Tech...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

ATF Unofficially Declares Solvent Traps To Be Suppressors

Submitted by The Machine Gun Nest (TMGN)., The ATF seems to have made a change related to the legal building of homemade suppressors and it has the potential to turn millions of gun owners into fel…

scatteredshots.com

ATF Requires Photos & Supplier Info for Home Built Silencers

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives (ATF) stepped up its war against 80% Silencer Kits. Requiring makers to rat out suppliers of hearing protection parts.

www.ammoland.com

You say specifically: "I found my FFL to build the silencer for me using the tube I like."

Is your FFL licensed to build silencers?

If they are "building the silencer for me" then they have to be specifically licensed to build and licensed to sell items such as suppressors, then after they make it, they will have to transfer it to you on a form 4

Your FFL CANNOT build your form 1 suppressor for you and hand it over to you.

They would need to first be licensed to build suppressors and licensed to sell suppressors and then follow all the standard ATF form 2 and such requirements for making the suppressor then once that is all done, they have to transfer it to you on a form 4 just like any other commercially made suppressor.

A form 1 can only be used if YOU are doing all the work yourself as an unlicensed individual.

 

[harleyman1974]

Get yourself an education below:

ATF Just FedEx'd Warning Letters to Thousands of Silencer Part Consumers - The Truth About Guns

About a year ago, Diversified Machine, manufacturer of Form 1 suppressor components, was raided and shut down by ATF and even their website was seized. They were one of a handful of solvent trap and Form 1 suppressor parts companies that suffered the same fate. Some, like Hawk Innovative Tech...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

ATF Unofficially Declares Solvent Traps To Be Suppressors

Submitted by The Machine Gun Nest (TMGN)., The ATF seems to have made a change related to the legal building of homemade suppressors and it has the potential to turn millions of gun owners into fel…

scatteredshots.com

ATF Requires Photos & Supplier Info for Home Built Silencers

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives (ATF) stepped up its war against 80% Silencer Kits. Requiring makers to rat out suppliers of hearing protection parts.

www.ammoland.com

You say specifically: "I found my FFL to build the silencer for me using the tube I like."

Is your FFL licensed to build silencers?

If they are "building the silencer for me" then they have to be specifically licensed to build and licensed to sell items such as suppressors, then after they make it, they will have to transfer it to you on a form 4

Your FFL CANNOT build your form 1 suppressor for you and hand it over to you.

They would need to first be licensed to build suppressors and licensed to sell suppressors and then follow all the standard ATF form 2 and such requirements for making the suppressor then once that is all done, they have to transfer it to you on a form 4 just like any other commercially made suppressor.

A form 1 can only be used if YOU are doing all the work yourself as an unlicensed individual.

Is your FFL licensed to build silencers?
Please try to keep up. The class 7 FFL is "licensed" to build silencers. You do realize all of the suppressor companies are class 7 ffls right? They don't have a class 7 + FFL which enables the build of all none destructive arms(i.e weapons that he builds from scratch including rifling the barrels he creates.) So is my FFL licensed, yes. While I would like to claim Dave and I are besties, were not.

So this is where you are getting confused. See a class 7, like Dave doesn't need a form 1. He files the Form 4, just like all the other class 7's like silencerco. So no, I don't want him to file a form 1 for me. That would be dumb, I can do that myself. Did you even read the first post where I asked, has anyone been successful with a Form 1(implying someone like me, who is not a class 7), or does anyone know of an FFL that will take someone else's tube and build a silencer LEGALLY for me and get it LEGALLY registered.

So just to clarify your question, is "MY class 7 FFL" legally able to submit the forms for the suppressor he can legally build based on his classification level. I thought I answered that already, but maybe not. Yes, according to him, he can submit the paperwork. I can only assume after being in the biz for 70 years, he's probably right? Not sure but I will ask if its important for you.

Thanks for all the forums you posted. Curious though did you read the second one you posted? "ATF UNOFFICIALLY" declares solvent traps to be illegal. I am not an attorney or anything, but from that terminology, I would have to assume that means they have NOT LEGALLY done anything but scare people on gun forums.

Just curious I am wondering do you run and hide from the mailman everyday thinking he is ATF in disguise and might be handing you a search warrant? Man Halloween must be a scary day for you. "Is that a kid or a small ATF guy?"

 

[W54/XM-388]

So just to clarify your question, is "MY class 7 FFL" legally able to submit the forms for the suppressor he can legally build based on his classification level. I thought I answered that already, but maybe not. Yes, according to him, he can submit the paperwork. I can only assume after being in the biz for 70 years, he's probably right? Not sure but I will ask if its important for you.

So, after all this round and about what you are saying now is, you are having a suppressor manufacturer build you a suppressor and then transfer it to you on a form 4 like any other commercial suppressor.

At this point it might have been simpler to just get any one of a wide variety of readily available suppressors from well know suppressor manufactures that are highly regarded. Simple straightforward and well supported.

Just curious I am wondering do you run and hide from the mailman everyday thinking he is ATF in disguise and might be handing you a search warrant? Man Halloween must be a scary day for you. "Is that a kid or a small ATF guy?"

I don't really worry about that, I make sure that everything I have is fully legal, including legal with all the current interpretations of the laws by the ones enforcing them.

Thanks for all the forums you posted. Curious though did you read the second one you posted? "ATF UNOFFICIALLY" declares solvent traps to be illegal. I am not an attorney or anything, but from that terminology, I would have to assume that means they have NOT LEGALLY done anything but scare people on gun forums.

I'm not interested in paying my own money for my own lawyers at my own peril to argue through a succession of courts if an agency's interpretation of a law is correct. The ATF has already shuttered several businesses over this change of interpretations and is actively perusing the matter.
Others may do other things, but I would prefer not to dance along the danger line and instead wait for the courts to fully settle the matter.

It sounds like after this long thread, that is essentially what you are actually doing, you are going to get a suppressor made by a suppressor manufacturer and have it transferred to you on a form 4

 

[harleyman1974]

So, after all this round and about what you are saying now is, you are having a suppressor manufacturer build you a suppressor and then transfer it to you on a form 4 like any other commercial suppressor.

At this point it might have been simpler to just get any one of a wide variety of readily available suppressors from well know suppressor manufactures that are highly regarded. Simple straightforward and well supported.


I don't really worry about that, I make sure that everything I have is fully legal, including legal with all the current interpretations of the laws by the ones enforcing them.



I'm not interested in paying my own money for my own lawyers at my own peril to argue through a succession of courts if an agency's interpretation of a law is correct. The ATF has already shuttered several businesses over this change of interpretations and is actively perusing the matter.
Others may do other things, but I would prefer not to dance along the danger line and instead wait for the courts to fully settle the matter.

It sounds like after this long thread, that is essentially what you are actually doing, you are going to get a suppressor made by a suppressor manufacturer and have it transferred to you on a form 4

Scorpion Muzzle Brake --- 68% Recoil Reduction​

Freedom Gear provides solvent traps, flashlight adapters, and other survivalist supplies all made in the United States of America and shipped to your home.

freedomgear.org
I have been running the titanium scorpion on my AR mainly for the looks, but I am working on getting a suppressor for it. This one has the quick disconnect threads.

I like the look of this one for my build. There are plenty of others out there, but they're boring and don't really match my weapon style.

FLASHLIGHT D SIZED "TWIST " SOLVENT TRAP w/Adaptor​

Freedom Gear provides solvent traps, flashlight adapters, and other survivalist supplies all made in the United States of America and shipped to your home.

freedomgear.org

I'd like to convert this trap to a suppressor. Anyone had any success or know of an FFL that takes others tubes and registers them?


"So, after all this round and about what you are saying now is, you are having a suppressor manufacturer build you a suppressor and then transfer it to you on a form 4 like any other commercial suppressor."


--OMG! SEROUSLY!? YES. IT IS SERIOUSLY THE FIRST THING I POSTED!

"At this point it might have been simpler to just get any one of a wide variety of readily available suppressors from well know suppressor manufactures that are highly regarded. Simple straightforward and well supported."


--And ALL look the same. WOW, this has been a long thread to get you to read the first post.

"I'm not interested in paying my own money for my own lawyers at my own peril to argue through a succession of courts if an agency's interpretation of a law is correct. The ATF has already shuttered several businesses over this change of interpretations and is actively perusing the matter.
Others may do other things, but I would prefer not to dance along the danger line and instead wait for the courts to fully settle the matter."

--What matter is there to settle? I seriously said, mean, and am looking to LEGALLY own a suppressor that I like the look of. I never once said, hey everyone, join me in LEGALLY converting a tube... I don't own, intend to buy, or build any illegal silencers, and no one else should either, because IT'S ILLEGAL.
Hope that clears things up. Sorry. I should have posted my first post earlier so you could understand the question.

--looking at those traps you posted from Chinese manufacturers, do you notice the key difference they are selling a tube, with drilled baffles, and calling them a solvent trap. And why is the atf showing up or confunscating the tube, because it's an illegal silencer. It's in the video as the thumb nail. Yes, I have no intention of having my FFL build using their garbage, illegal silencers. If you take apart a can from silencerco, their baffles look just like the baffles the Chinese are selling.

 

[Erickluc]

Last year I submitted paperwork for a hybrid 46 and the wait time was going to be extremely long and so I looked into form 1s and seen that you can be approved in roughly 30 days. I was approved for a form 1 tax stamp on October 4th 2021 and purchased a solvent trap on December 27th 2021 from a guy on gunbroker called rifle remedy, if you know then you know who he is. I did everything legal according to the ATFs rules at the time and machined it into a suppressor, I was able to enjoy it until October 6th and my day was interrupted by an ATF agent who walked up to me in my driveway in plain clothes, I live in a small town in North Dakota also. The guy handed me the paper letter and stated if you forfeit the solvent trap nothing further will happen or he will be back with a warrant if I didn't. I told him I want to speak with a lawyer before I said anything further and tried to get me to call right away and I don't have a lawyer on speed dial so he called the sheriff at my discretion who really didn't do anything for me. The atf agent left and about an hour later I got ahold of a lawyer and he said it would be in my best interest to forfeit unless I have a minimum of 50k laying around and time to fight it, I have neither. I called the agent back and said I would turn it over that day as he said he was typing up a search warrant, and I met him at the Sheriff's office in mandan ND and had to fill out form 3400.23. I will not be reimbursed for my tax or solvent trap and he stated all form 1 suppressors made with solvent traps are now illegal and that I broke the law according to his boss, I bought mine from the wrong guy who they are trying to charge with royally and that's how they got my information. I just want to tell my story and hopefully people with more publicity can start pushing elected officials to rein back the atf or they will not stop.

 

[harleyman1974]

Last year I submitted paperwork for a hybrid 46 and the wait time was going to be extremely long and so I looked into form 1s and seen that you can be approved in roughly 30 days. I was approved for a form 1 tax stamp on October 4th 2021 and purchased a solvent trap on December 27th 2021 from a guy on gunbroker called rifle remedy, if you know then you know who he is. I did everything legal according to the ATFs rules at the time and machined it into a suppressor, I was able to enjoy it until October 6th and my day was interrupted by an ATF agent who walked up to me in my driveway in plain clothes, I live in a small town in North Dakota also. The guy handed me the paper letter and stated if you forfeit the solvent trap nothing further will happen or he will be back with a warrant if I didn't. I told him I want to speak with a lawyer before I said anything further and tried to get me to call right away and I don't have a lawyer on speed dial so he called the sheriff at my discretion who really didn't do anything for me. The atf agent left and about an hour later I got ahold of a lawyer and he said it would be in my best interest to forfeit unless I have a minimum of 50k laying around and time to fight it, I have neither. I called the agent back and said I would turn it over that day as he said he was typing up a search warrant, and I met him at the Sheriff's office in mandan ND and had to fill out form 3400.23. I will not be reimbursed for my tax or solvent trap and he stated all form 1 suppressors made with solvent traps are now illegal and that I broke the law according to his boss, I bought mine from the wrong guy who they are trying to charge with royally and that's how they got my information. I just want to tell my story and hopefully people with more publicity can start pushing elected officials to rein back the atf or they will not stop.

Cool. Picture of the letter? Since it's not illegal in the law and you had an approved build with the approved silencer stamp, what would be the grounds for them taking an approved silencer? So that means any silencer that is registered can be grabbed? That doesn't seem legit. I see you just joined yesterday... Welcome.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Cool. Picture of the letter? Since it's not illegal in the law and you had an approved build with the approved silencer stamp, what would be the grounds for them taking an approved silencer? So that means any silencer that is registered can be grabbed? That doesn't seem legit. I see you just joined yesterday... Welcome.

Did you watch any of the videos I posted or do some searching on Google on your own or remember the information from the links I posted.
He is describing exactly what I said was happening.

If you care to go back and read the links, you'll understand why the sudden tightening of the noose on "silencer kits" or "solvent traps" does not affect standard commercially bought suppressors made by legit suppressor manufacturers.

 

[camocorvette]

 

[harleyman1974]

Did you watch any of the videos I posted or do some searching on Google on your own or remember the information from the links I posted.
He is describing exactly what I said was happening.

If you care to go back and read the links, you'll understand why the sudden tightening of the noose on "silencer kits" or "solvent traps" does not affect standard commercially bought suppressors made by legit suppressor manufacturers.

Lol. Right. Nice new account you got there. It's a ghost account, Saw right through it. Give me a couple hours, I'll going to make an account to dispute what your ghost said.

Wow. If he's real, he will have a letter.. and as everyone knows a reverse lookup exits, so if it the same letter that says you may be in violation then it'll obviously be a ghost.. And yes I know you don't like the idea of people getting a tube other than silencer co.... Your point was made. This discussion can be closed. Clearly I found the FFL to build me the silencer, so I don't need any further info.