Night Vision Anyone running dual band goggle setup?

[Rancid Coolaid]

Not any more!

Will see how the thing works.

Thanks for the heads up, the Breach will be infinitely more usable with a better button option.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Not any more!

Will see how the thing works.

Thanks for the heads up, the Breach will be infinitely more usable with a better button option.

Glad you snagged it. You will definitely enjoy it on your wrist. I had in previous posts promised to provide some detailed photos of how I have set up the Breech/14 on helmet etc, but have been very busy with work and have not gotten around to providing those yet. Hopefully soon I will be able to get them done and posted such as to possibly help others with options to consider. I will also post a photo of how I put the wrist "watch type velcro bands" bands on the Flir 5 Button Remote. Almost as slick as the invention of sliced bread. LOL

 

[Flip#1]

Wow lots of good information. Looking forward to using a mtm with some sor of Nvg Mount I haven’t found any solution to mount the mtm to a helmet if someone has a link please send it my way.

 

[j-huskey]

Wow lots of good information. Looking forward to using a mtm with some sor of Nvg Mount I haven’t found any solution to mount the mtm to a helmet if someone has a link please send it my way.

@Mclark48 has a mount system that puts it over the left eye. Perhaps he can come up on the topic and respond.

Mtm makes a bayonet helmet arm and a dovetail helmet arm, both are very hard to find. And pricey.

Pic of dovetail mount.

You can get a wilcox bridge or other bridge and a dovetail shoe and put it over either eye.

DRT bridge pic:

Dovetail shoe options.

The pvs18 shoe will work on the mtm.

And you can use the flir m24 adaptor and the pvs15 or 18 dovetail shoe on the mtm. Not perfect, but works.

Will post a less expensive option later, but you need to be tool handy.

vr

 

[cschastain2]

Interesting listening to you guys...

Ive been thinking about doing the exact same thing...foe checking cows/hunt pigs/coyotes here in Texas...

I'm saving up and have been researching when I came across this thread. I wonder if the IR Patrol 250XR 60mm, D-14 Gen 2 Dovetail with the PVS-14 would line up correctly? (I was thinking about having an extra PVS-14 with the 3rd arm attached in my pocket for a quick switch out, if needed.

From my reading, I can only see: 3 mounts usable for Dual Species setup...
1. Mod Armory D-14 Gen 2
2. Knight's RQE Universal Bridge
3. Wilcox Universal Bridge
(Unless I'm missing something?)

Which of these would allow the best fore/aft lineup with the least amount of side to side housing conflict?

I haven't checked, but I presume the IR-Patrol has a mountable female thread hole that can attach to the arms?

I'm wondering about the best lineup at the ocular end and which of these mounts would give you the best lineup capability?

...And which helmet mount would be the most stable and best stowing capability?

Your Opinions would be GREAT!!!

Looks like my best or only options are:
1. Norotos LO-STO
2. Wilcox G24 or G11
3. Rhino II
(Again, unless I'm missing something?)

Is there any bridge or arm (You guys know of) that adjusts the arm/Patrol forward and aft independently of the other (PVS-14 side)?
Seems like that type of unit would be good for this application? Looks like the above 14/Patrol configuration, they lineup well with enough side to side clearance? I didn't realize there was a D-14 "further forward" position until I read above Wig"s post?

 

[cschastain2]

Just took a close look at the above photo...Looks like the Patrol attaches directly with its own dovetail. Is it possible to replace the Patrol's attached dovetail with an offset dovetail for better fore/aft ocular lineup? Like the Interface shoe for the BAE post above?

 

[WhereNow&How]

The Patrol XR 250 60mm is an outstanding long range thermal. However, for a helmet mounted Thermal paired with a PVS 14 it is not a very realistic Thermal to use that away for the following reasons.

1. Native Magnification is 4.5 X
2. FOV is 7 Degrees
3. Weight is 27 oz or 1.68 pounds

Trying to pair a Patrol XR 250 60 mm with a PVS 14 is almost equivalent to trying to pair up a F16 fighter plane to fly with a Kite. Just wont realistically work such that a user would be very happy and satisfied.

First thing the setup will be very unbalanced due the the XR at 27 ounces vs about 12 oz for a PVS 14 is almost twice as heavy and your helmet will be listing over to the side the XR is mounted on or your neck muscles will be fighting to keep your helmet straight or you will have to put side counterweights on the PVS 14 side to balance that configuration up.

Second, the XR's FOV at 7 Degrees is really just too narrow for a helmet Thermal Scanner.

IMHO a helmet mounted Thermal Scanner needs to be approximately the same Size, Weight as the PVS 14 such that a system is balanced correctly. About the only Thermal Devices I know of that currently fit that bill are the Flir Breach, Skeet, MTM or Tilo 3Z or ATN Odin. Out of those the Skeet is undoubtedly the best but very expensive and the cost to performance benefit ratio is not there for me. For someone with tons of cash to spend, hell yea, do it. It will give you an outstanding image but still is only a 1x Native Magnification device (albeit 640 x 480 at 28 Degrees) as are all of the above mentioned devices.

All of that being said, realistic helmet thermal devices are all only going to give you a marginal distance of Positive ID on live animals. The primary function of a helmet mounted Thermal is simply to let you be able to scan 24/7 as you move along such that you can detect that a live critter is out there. Once detection is achieved then you basically have the following choices.

1. Throw up a much more powerful Thermal such as a handheld or weapons mounted that can reach much further out and give you the ability to Positive ID at longer distances.

2. Throw a 3x or 5x Magnifier on a PVS 14 and light the critter of interest up with IR light (Luna Elir 3) works very well, (but don't focus beam energy too narrow and smoke critters eyes, unless its a hog, LOL), such that you can get a true visual on critter.

3. Walk your ass off such that you get close enough to critter to Postive ID with a 1x helmet mounted Thermal.

IMHO, the best current affordable setup that will do a really good job is take a Flir Breach and pair it with a PVS 14 using the Mod Armory Lite Weight Bridge with a Mod Armory Breach Arm correctly adjusted for alignment with the PVS 14. Use a Norotos Rhino 2 with a Dovetail Socket. Get yourself a good weapons mounted Thermal such as a Flir PTS 536 and you are now a hog killing machine. Breach lets you know critter is out there 24/7 and PTS 536 will give you Positive ID a long way out and dispatch critter if so desired.

You can buy all of that for less than the price of 1 Patrol XR 60 mm or 1 Skeet and run just as effectively as any setup out there except maybe some secret squirrel stuff civi's can't readily or realistically get their paws on.

Unfortunately, in the NV, Thermal game there is not a 1 fits all, does it all device. It takes a multi level of devices to assemble an effective and cost efficient total package to get it done.

Hope this IHMO information is of some use to you in making your decisions

 

[wigwamitus]

... Is it possible to replace the Patrol's attached dovetail with an offset dovetail for better fore/aft ocular lineup?

I have seen an offset mount for the patrol ... I think someone made some up a few years ago ... doubt they are highly available. But if you hunt for them, you might get lucky. Else design one and go custom.

==

... Is there any bridge or arm (You guys know of) that adjusts the arm/Patrol forward and aft independently of the other (PVS-14 side)? ...

Not AFAIK. If there was, I'd have a box of them

==
I use the mod armory bridge and run the patrol on the left eye and the 14 on the right eye. I do that so the 14+coti is on dominant eye for aiming with the laser.

There is a potential conflict with the patrol joy stick on its right, bumping in to the 14 left side ... but I open them open (swing the 14 out to the right) when I need to operate the joy stick. And this works for me.

==
As to custom mounts ... a 3D printer and a copy of solid works will get it done as far as mockups go ... though for something threaded ... I think you have to go with metal for the final. So that's a CNC machine capable of doing threads. But doing it yourself might be cheaper than paying a real business to do a one off for you, unless they are real friendly
Me and a buddy do custom stuff ... but redoing these mounts isn't even on the list ... higher priorities are. The existing mounts get the job done IMHO. At least for the patrol and skeet.
Sounds like the MTM could use a custom mount.
Sounds like a solution exists for the Breech.

 

[wigwamitus]

... IR Patrol 250XR 60mm ...

Oh, you were thinkin' of putting the 60mm on your head ? I missed that !!

Yeah, I think the weight imbalance would put a HUGE strain on the system (and your head is part of that system). So, I would drop down to the patrol 19mm for dedicated head mount use and get one of the 3x magnifiers for occasional long distance spotting. Or, you could try the reapv1 up there.
I do drive with the patrol on 2x on familiar ground, but haven't done it a lot. Obviously the mis-match in FOV and magnification is going to cause some issues but I was surprised it didn't cause more issues when I tried it. But then again, I was on familiar ground.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

No way I'd try to run use something with more than 1x on my head. Trying to move with a 3x on the pvs-14 or patrol in 2-4x gets me dizzy in a hurry.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Wig, speaking of Magnifiers, being the equipment tinkerer you are, you will probably get a kick out of this. I had TPL custom make me some 62 mm 3x Magnifiers with an attachment arm that I used a Steiner HT Quick Disconnect mount to attach to the Magnifier arm such that I can quickly take them on or off of PTS 233's via its Pic Rail These were the first in the country done as far as I know. I also had Mod Armory make me some custom Platform Rings that will fit on all of the PTS Thermosight line such that I can mount Triji RMR's on top of the Thermals. Now here is the kicker. I can also take and handhold one of those Magnifiers up to the helmet mounted Breach such that I am at 3x at (320 x 256) for a quick long distance look see out of a Breach. Kind of like putting a slip on 3x or 5x Magnifier on a PVS 14. On the PTS 233's, these Magnifiers are rated to 7.62 and because they are a solid lockup they provide very good POA/POI retention. They amp the Little 233's up to a new (1.5 x times 3x) = 4.5X New Native on the PTS 233. So I can take a 233 and do long range if I want to or take Magnifiers off and hunt close thick cover. Gives you best of both worlds. On same PTS 233 Pic Rail I designed and built an External Battery setup that is tough as nails such that the Micro USB Port cannot under any circumstances disconnect or wear the male/female sockets out due to "wiggle" plus there is hardly any exposed cable to snag on stuff. This external battery setup will run a PTS Thermosight in constant on for about 11.5 hours (60 degrees F). Much more if you use standby mode.

 

[Frog05]

@cschastain2 I found this for you. They use Wilcox bridge and flip one of the arms around to achieve proper fore and aft alignment with a 14/Patrol setup.

PVS-14 and IR PATROL with the Wilcox Dual Bridge - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

 

[j-huskey]

Wow lots of good information. Looking forward to using a mtm with some sor of Nvg Mount I haven’t found any solution to mount the mtm to a helmet if someone has a link please send it my way.

So, repeat of the mtm dovetail mount.

Mtm bayonet mount.

Pic of mtm, modified j arm, and non mod j arm

Another

The modified arm

Mtm's with std arm and modified arm mounted.

Yes, if you are a little tool friendly, you can make a j-arm work. Best to you.

 

[wigwamitus]

Waayy Kool !!!

Yeah, the "patrol as a clipon" project is stuck in the step of "waiting for gen2 clamp" version of the raytheon 3x magnifier. The gen1 version together with regular pvs-14 demag on the rear got a solid 10x magnification support on the day scope and an image on pair with mk3 60mm on 2x digital. But the magnifier still moved when shot and resulted in POI shift. So that has to get fixed. And the gen2s are done, I just need to get them in my paws to test. We've also beefed up the rear end to add optical wedge (a.k.a. risley prism set) for the gen2 version and rethreading on the rear end module as well.

==
But your setup beefs you up quite a bit !!!

 

[j-huskey]

Wow lots of good information. Looking forward to using a mtm with some sor of Nvg Mount I haven’t found any solution to mount the mtm to a helmet if someone has a link please send it my way.

Flir Recon M24 adaptor by Wilcox for single mount.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Waayy Kool !!!

Yeah, the "patrol as a clipon" project is stuck in the step of "waiting for gen2 clamp" version of the raytheon 3x magnifier. The gen1 version together with regular pvs-14 demag on the rear got a solid 10x magnification support on the day scope and an image on pair with mk3 60mm on 2x digital. But the magnifier still moved when shot and resulted in POI shift. So that has to get fixed. And the gen2s are done, I just need to get them in my paws to test. We've also beefed up the rear end to add optical wedge (a.k.a. risley prism set) for the gen2 version and rethreading on the rear end module as well.

==
But your setup beefs you up quite a bit !!!

Yep, but performance comes at a price both in weight and dollars. A buddy of mine bought a 3x Magnifier for his Patrol thinking all he had to do was clip it on and it would turn it into a longer range tack shooter on his AR. I kept telling him he better get a solid lock down on that Magnifier cause any movement will change your POA/POI. Well he wouldn't listen at first, but after embarrassing himself missing some critters, the light bulb when on in his head. I had actually sent him a copy of your findings but he was too busy/lazy to study what you were reporting. When you get Gen 2 clamp all tested out, I might want to see if we can get with you and get a clamp if possible. His Magnifier is a TPL 3x 62 mm which I believe will be almost identical to the Raytheon Magnifier you have there.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well, yup, I tried zeroing with it on there before shooting at critters ... and I was getting 4 foot POI shifts between each shot at 100yds ... so I never tried it on critters ... no elephants around here

What is that a 46 MOA group at 100yds !!?? I was fortunate to put a BIG piece of paper out there (backwards facing NRA 500yd target) ... or I might not have even seen the holes !

... TPL 3x 62 mm which I believe will be almost identical to the Raytheon Magnifier ...

Yes AFAIK they are functionally equiv, though when you could get them, the Raytheon's were $1500 ... vs ... something under $2500 for the TPLs.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I told my buddy if it shifted he was SOL, so he sighted it in and said he would check throughout the night that he would keep checking that the 2 clamp ears remained in the same position when he sighted it in. LOL, he found out quickly that close enough on the clamps wasn't good enough. LOL That one episode missing hogs taught him a lesson. LOL

On the Flir PTS 233 Magnifiers I had TPL make, they charged me $2050 each for the Magnifiers and the one off designing/building the arms and attaching the Steiner Quick Disconnect Mounts for me. I had to ship them a PTS 233 and the Steiner QD Mounts but the result was very well done. I thought that was a very fair price for all they added and did. I have a lot of respect for Dr. Leo Volfson and all TPL personnel involved. They are first rate expert people whom understand thermal and designing very well. And are very polite and professional to deal with.

 

[cschastain2]

EVER SEE THIS ONE: ?

NIVISYS TACSPORT-M

TACS-M, Thermal Acquisition Clip-on System - Miniature - Night Vision Goggles, Thermal Weapon Sights, Night Vision Binoculars, Night Vision Accessories

TACS-M, Thermal Acquisition Clip-on System - Miniature, ultimate performance in technology. Low power consumption, optimal sensor technology, and high-performance optics all seamlessly integrate to provide state of the art long wave infrared (LWIR) tech

www.nivisys.com

 

[cschastain2]

They made the Atilla-200 Good Unit

 

[WhereNow&How]

EVER SEE THIS ONE: ?

NIVISYS TACSPORT-M

TACS-M, Thermal Acquisition Clip-on System - Miniature - Night Vision Goggles, Thermal Weapon Sights, Night Vision Binoculars, Night Vision Accessories

TACS-M, Thermal Acquisition Clip-on System - Miniature, ultimate performance in technology. Low power consumption, optimal sensor technology, and high-performance optics all seamlessly integrate to provide state of the art long wave infrared (LWIR) tech

www.nivisys.com

Yep, I have 2 of them. They are the exact same unit as the Pas 29 Coti, with the exception that they do not have the external port that will allow you to run an external battery pack. Both of these units are made by Safran/Optics 1.

They are ok, but eat batteries like crazy. I can run some rechargable 3.6 Volt CR123 max batteries in them that work pretty decent but most rechargeable RCR 123's come off the charger at 4.2 volts and I havent sacked up yet to see if they can handle those. It specifically says 3.6 Volts Max on the sticker on them. They serve a much more specific shorter thermal range purpose than say a Breech.

The Breech will far outperform them but it is not a fusion system like the COTI. The COTI is a much more pleasant experience running duals than running a PVS 14/ Breech setup, but like I said the Breech will offer way further and better detection and run much longer with the Mod Armory Battery Extender with 16650 rechargeable batteries.

 

[wigwamitus]

... EVER SEE THIS ONE: ? ...

Haha, I have two as well ... and if you look back thru this thread you'll see pics ... and if you follow the link to my night shooting thread you can read about them in action.

The strength of the coti is fast engagement with an ir-laser on your carbine. It is NOT a strong spotter.

Again, follow the link to the night shooting thread in my first post in this thread or just look up the night shooting thread in the active page.

 

[wigwamitus]

For me its not a matter of "either/or" ... I run the thermal spotter on the left eye ... and the 14/coti o the right eye. Best of both worlds.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I mainly run a single 14 over non dominant left eye and Breach over right. That allows me to roll breach up and get down on a thermal weapon site. Also run Dbal A3's on same weapons so can do the zap and tap if I were to have a TWS go down or just for shits and giggles want to shoot em with laser. On final approach to a sounder it is sometimes necessary to have the 14 to aid in navigation and having Breech rolled up at that point allows you to get down on TWS should pigs spook on final approach and you got to get down to business in a hurry.

However, sometimes I will just run Duel 14's with a COTI and strictly laser shoot offhand. With hogs in a clean open field the wide FOV 14's give you compared to being down in TWS is fun with just laser shooting. Much larger playing field then.

 

[Mclark48]

Wow lots of good information. Looking forward to using a mtm with some sor of Nvg Mount I haven’t found any solution to mount the mtm to a helmet if someone has a link please send it my way.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Wig, here is the laser end. Marry up the Luna Elir 3 (tuned LOL) to a civi Dbal A3 which is slaved with the Taps Pro at 9 O'clock and one press gives you IR Illuminate plus IR Point such that you have IR Illumination that will stand toe to toe with a LA-5B PEQ all night long with a nice crisp non bloomed out IR Point for a fine aiming solution. 12 O'clock Taps Pro slave Surefire DF with Vis Point Over-Ride for instant white light and Vis Point should you need it. Velcro over Lens Cap is just additional safety feature I put on Luna's during non use to make sure Lens Cap doesn't come off. Also running Modlite OKW heads on Surefire DF now and they are worth every penny. The secret sauce component is the Mod Armory manufactured Luna/Surefire adapter. They have come back into availability for folks that are looking for them. Mod Armory isn't selling them directly but made a bunch more for Luna Optics and they can be purchased from dealers like Jay at Sureshot. Still waiting on the release of the Unity Hot Button and that will be an excellent solution for slaving 2 devices.

 

[wigwamitus]

Cool !! ... You must be crawling around in my head ...

I've actually been picking out the parts I need to get to double switch one of my ELIR-3 with an AIM2000 ... and if that works ... I'll do it again with my other ELIR-3 and a laser I still need to buy.

 

[Mclark48]

For me its not a matter of "either/or" ... I run the thermal spotter on the left eye ... and the 14/coti o the right eye. Best of both worlds.

Are you running a mtm on the left eye? I'm going to be running a pvs 14 on my right eye with that those same mounts and I'm wondering how they line up with your eyes.
Like are they even on the side closest to the eyes?

 

[wigwamitus]

And I was a lookin at the TAPS but hadn't decided yet.
I think there's a surefire double that will work also.
(and 2 versions of taps)

 

[wigwamitus]

...
Are you running a mtm on the left eye? I'm going to be running a pvs 14 on my right eye with that those same mounts and I'm wondering how they line up with your eyes.
Like are they even on the side closest to the eyes?

That's a BAE Skeet. Similar to an MTM but different. They line up really well. Now is not a perfect merged image by any means (start at the beginning of this thread) but you can definitely look thru/see thru both at the same time if desired.

Yes these are "even" on the side closest to the eyes.

 

[WhereNow&How]

And I was a lookin at the TAPS but hadn't decided yet.
I think there's a surefire double that will work also.
(and 2 versions of taps)

Wig, the Original Taps Pro was a hit and miss. I had to go through 10 of them to get 6 that worked correctly. They have held up pretty good. I have purchased 2 of the new Taps Sync and they are good but don't offer a constant on feature so I am not in love with them. Strictly Momentary. I bought those as a stopgap while waiting on the Unity Hot Button which is over 6 months late from when Unity told me they were going to be available. Currently Unity is saying 1st quarter of next year for the duel lead version, but with Shot coming up I am not holding my breath. However, at the end of the day I believe that the Hot Button will be the best switch to end up with because it will be much more rugged and simplistic. The Taps Pro was over designed on the circuitry and all of the programming options and that is why it was such a hit and miss on getting one that would work correctly without failing.

 

[cschastain2]

The Patrol XR 250 60mm is an outstanding long range thermal. However, for a helmet mounted Thermal paired with a PVS 14 it is not a very realistic Thermal to use that away for the following reasons.

1. Native Magnification is 4.5 X
2. FOV is 7 Degrees
3. Weight is 27 oz or 1.68 pounds

Trying to pair a Patrol XR 250 60 mm with a PVS 14 is almost equivalent to trying to pair up a F16 fighter plane to fly with a Kite. Just wont realistically work such that a user would be very happy and satisfied.

First thing the setup will be very unbalanced due the the XR at 27 ounces vs about 12 oz for a PVS 14 is almost twice as heavy and your helmet will be listing over to the side the XR is mounted on or your neck muscles will be fighting to keep your helmet straight or you will have to put side counterweights on the PVS 14 side to balance that configuration up.

Second, the XR's FOV at 7 Degrees is really just too narrow for a helmet Thermal Scanner.

IMHO a helmet mounted Thermal Scanner needs to be approximately the same Size, Weight as the PVS 14 such that a system is balanced correctly. About the only Thermal Devices I know of that currently fit that bill are the Flir Breach, Skeet, MTM or Tilo 3Z or ATN Odin. Out of those the Skeet is undoubtedly the best but very expensive and the cost to performance benefit ratio is not there for me. For someone with tons of cash to spend, hell yea, do it. It will give you an outstanding image but still is only a 1x Native Magnification device (albeit 640 x 480 at 28 Degrees) as are all of the above mentioned devices.

All of that being said, realistic helmet thermal devices are all only going to give you a marginal distance of Positive ID on live animals. The primary function of a helmet mounted Thermal is simply to let you be able to scan 24/7 as you move along such that you can detect that a live critter is out there. Once detection is achieved then you basically have the following choices.

1. Throw up a much more powerful Thermal such as a handheld or weapons mounted that can reach much further out and give you the ability to Positive ID at longer distances.

2. Throw a 3x or 5x Magnifier on a PVS 14 and light the critter of interest up with IR light (Luna Elir 3) works very well, (but don't focus beam energy too narrow and smoke critters eyes, unless its a hog, LOL), such that you can get a true visual on critter.

3. Walk your ass off such that you get close enough to critter to Postive ID with a 1x helmet mounted Thermal.

IMHO, the best current affordable setup that will do a really good job is take a Flir Breach and pair it with a PVS 14 using the Mod Armory Lite Weight Bridge with a Mod Armory Breach Arm correctly adjusted for alignment with the PVS 14. Use a Norotos Rhino 2 with a Dovetail Socket. Get yourself a good weapons mounted Thermal such as a Flir PTS 536 and you are now a hog killing machine. Breach lets you know critter is out there 24/7 and PTS 536 will give you Positive ID a long way out and dispatch critter if so desired.

You can buy all of that for less than the price of 1 Patrol XR 60 mm or 1 Skeet and run just as effectively as any setup out there except maybe some secret squirrel stuff civi's can't readily or realistically get their paws on.

Unfortunately, in the NV, Thermal game there is not a 1 fits all, does it all device. It takes a multi level of devices to assemble an effective and cost efficient total package to get it done.

Hope this IHMO information is of some use to you in making your decisions

That's great information!!! Thank you for it too!!
I'll keep researching all that.

Thank you again...Feel free! I'm a sponge right now

 

[cschastain2]

Wig, here is the laser end. Marry up the Luna Elir 3 (tuned LOL) to a civi Dbal A3 which is slaved with the Taps Pro at 9 O'clock and one press gives you IR Illuminate plus IR Point such that you have IR Illumination that will stand toe to toe with a LA-5B PEQ all night long with a nice crisp non bloomed out IR Point for a fine aiming solution. 12 O'clock Taps Pro slave Surefire DF with Vis Point Over-Ride for instant white light and Vis Point should you need it. Velcro over Lens Cap is just additional safety feature I put on Luna's during non use to make sure Lens Cap doesn't come off. Also running Modlite OKW heads on Surefire DF now and they are worth every penny. The secret sauce component is the Mod Armory manufactured Luna/Surefire adapter. They have come back into availability for folks that are looking for them. Mod Armory isn't selling them directly but made a bunch more for Luna Optics and they can be purchased from dealers like Jay at Sureshot. Still waiting on the release of the Unity Hot Button and that will be an excellent solution for slaving 2 devices.

View attachment 7197029

 

[cschastain2]

Ever looked at the Russian "Ivan the Bear Tactical" Zenitco Perst-2 or Perst-3 PLUS+ 9 (Can buy on Ebay) Powerful...OUTSTANDING!!!!
Lifetime warranty

 

[cschastain2]

Visible Green Laser/IR Laser/IR Illuminator/Flashlight

 

[cschastain2]

@cschastain2 I found this for you. They use Wilcox bridge and flip one of the arms around to achieve proper fore and aft alignment with a 14/Patrol setup.

PVS-14 and IR PATROL with the Wilcox Dual Bridge - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

THANK YOU!!!! THATS OUTSTANDING!!!!!

 

[Pseudohero]

Yes it would.

Hey anyone try an 18650 in the 16650 mod armory breach battery extender. I know 18mm vs 16 mm but does it fit?

 

[WhereNow&How]

Hey anyone try an 18650 in the 16650 mod armory breach battery extender. I know 18mm vs 16 mm but does it fit?

No go. Will not fit. I know that for 100% certainty. 16650 runs just fine. You can count on 5 hours solid run time at 60 degrees F.

 

[MattyG]

Botach.com | Law Enforcement, Military & Public Safety Gear

We offer the latest & greatest gear at the lowest prices online. Serving those who protect our great country.

www.botach.com

You guys should try these! I was not using them to spot critters though so your mileage may vary...... At the time I had no idea how expensive they were!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Botach.com | Law Enforcement, Military & Public Safety Gear

We offer the latest & greatest gear at the lowest prices online. Serving those who protect our great country.

www.botach.com

You guys should try these! I was not using them to spot critters though so your mileage may vary...... At the time I had no idea how expensive they were!

Hell yea. Put me down for 2 units. Hmmmm, on second thoughts, maybe I will have to piecemeal me one together, 1 part at a time. How much is the On/Off button.

 

[car16smg]

Hell yea. Put me down for 2 units. Hmmmm, on second thoughts, maybe I will have to piecemeal me one together, 1 part at a time. How much is the On/Off button.

Was talking to Pete @ I^2 about these a few weeks ago and he said they wouldn’t even let him look through a set ??‍

But the po’ boy version with a COTI on DTNVG or dual 14s with a COTI is more my speed lol

 

[MattyG]

The 36's were cool but the GPNVGs were really neat. Used green and white phos GPNVG's next to the 36's as well. The 36's I used were the Alphas with WP tubes and they were stupid clear. I have used SkeetIRs with 14's before and they gave me a real headache. The COTI over 31A's is slick but never used the COTI on anything else.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Was talking to Pete @ I^2 about these a few weeks ago and he said they wouldn’t even let him look through a set ??‍

But the po’ boy version with a COTI on DTNVG or dual 14s with a COTI is more my speed lol

Shucks, guess they aint gonna sell me a switch so I can begin my quest. LOL I'm with you. That's way too expensive of a single item that might go down. I would rather invest in Dual 14's and Coti or 14 and Breach. You can have multitudes of those setups for what one of those super expensive units run. I think the Marines passed on those for the E COTI on Binos. 1 is none and 2 is one is always a nice place to be in.

 

[car16smg]

Dual 14s with standard COTI is 10. Mounts and helmet is another 1200. E-COTI is double the price of the standard, but I’ve read the 640 display is pretty sweet ?

 

[WhereNow&How]

I’m wondering Where’s the least expensive place to get a COTI or even E-COTI?

From what I have read lately, it looks like the E COTI might have or is fixing to become Unobtainium due to filling military contracts. Additionally, it has been reported that the 640 is not really that much better than the 320 units as far as distance and i always just run mine in outline anyway, so don't see how a 640 would really enhance that mode much.

Most of the increase in price has to do with all the features added which enable it to link up to the military real time grid system which is of absolutely no use to a civilian. The original COTI has a nice easy to use Nob to increase its gain. This has been changed to a much smaller button or nob that is supposedly a pain in the ass to use per my reading.

Best place to get a COTI the last couple of years price wise was Nivisys. They were liquidating some of their TACS-M's which are exactly the same as the Pas 29 Coti, with the only difference being the Tacs M does not have the external port to run an external battery.

Most of what I have reported above on the E Coti, came from reading a post on AR15 from TNVC's Augee. If it was me, I would go with the original COTI and try to get it as cheap as possible. IMHO the COTI's are pretty weak systems that are really for a more specialized mission compared to other compact Thermals that can be helmet mounted but are not a fusion setup. Don't get me wrong, a COTI is a nice setup in certain situations, but all around I would go with a PVS 14 and Breach/Skeet, MTM all night over the COTI.

If the COTI's were as strong at detecting as the Breach/Skeet, MTM I would definitely prefer the COTI then for sure.

 

[j-huskey]

WN&H says COTI is a weak system specialized to mission specific tasks, relating to tnvc-augee article.
And that dedicated smaller thermals are preferable to coti for general use.

This is the truth as I know it as well, and not from the article.
Coti is fragile compared to dedicated units. It's a carbuncle added to a 14 that isnt designed for extremely hard use, the failure rate is much higher than dedicated units.
The usable range is much reduced from a dedicated unit.

I removed myself from earlier coti for all those reasons and the short battery life.

Going through doors looking for people, I was ok with coti. All night in the woods not so ok. Mtm was so much more useful.

Jmhe.. your mileage may have varied. vr

 

[wigwamitus]

Aye, I've reported on my mileage with COTI multiple times. It's an essential piece of gear for using laser in the woods / heavily vegetated area, when 14 only cannot see the critter. Coti can see the critter and 14 can see the laser and "bang". Reports on recent use are in my night shooting thread.

Short battery life is a big deal. The biggest. And working on a plug to solve. The tough part is the threads. We are getting closer.

But all that said, and as I've stated multiple times. COTI is not much of a spotter it is a shooting/aiming aid. That's why I also wear skeet or patrol on left eye with 14+coti on right eye. That combination works for me when walking and stalking with carbine + laser, usually in woods.

 

[WhereNow&How]

WN&H says COTI is a weak system specialized to mission specific tasks, relating to tnvc-augee article.
And that dedicated smaller thermals are preferable to coti for general use.

This is the truth as I know it as well, and not from the article.
Coti is fragile compared to dedicated units. It's a carbuncle added to a 14 that isnt designed for extremely hard use, the failure rate is much higher than dedicated units.
The usable range is much reduced from a dedicated unit.

I removed myself from earlier coti for all those reasons and the short battery life.

Going through doors looking for people, I was ok with coti. All night in the woods not so ok. Mtm was so much more useful.

Jmhe.. your mileage may have varied. vr

Your comments are 150% spot on to my experiences also. I do own and run 2 TACS M Coti's sometimes. They mainly sit nowday's due to my Breach setups.

All of my previous comments related to the E Coti where mainly taken from TNVC Augee's post. He apparently has had the opportunity to run and evaluate the E Coti system and provides the 1st, (first hand) evaluation of it that I have seen anywhere out there.

However, like you said, going through doors and close range it does a good job at that. That is what the system was designed for.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Aye, I've reported on my mileage with COTI multiple times. It's an essential piece of gear for using laser in the woods / heavily vegetated area, when 14 only cannot see the critter. Coti can see the critter and 14 can see the laser and "bang". Reports on recent use are in my night shooting thread.

Short battery life is a big deal. The biggest. And working on a plug to solve. The tough part is the threads. We are getting closer.

But all that said, and as I've stated multiple times. COTI is not much of a spotter it is a shooting/aiming aid. That's why I also wear skeet or patrol on left eye with 14+coti on right eye. That combination works for me when walking and stalking with carbine + laser, usually in woods.

Put me down for 3 plugs if you would Please Sir. I got a buddy that would love one also. You the man. I have been thinking the same thing for a while but you appear to be way ahead of me on making it happen.

 

[wigwamitus]

... What’s a good price for a used Coti ...

IIRC the german had a couple for sale earlier in the year, showing $4k ... not sure what they ultimately went for.