Night Vision Anyone running dual band goggle setup?
- Thread starter WoobieJ
- Start date
Anything clean for $3,500 or lower than that and you are getting pretty decent value for your money IMHO.
Both, didn't fall of the back of truck and not beat up. On fox and coyote at 150 yards. If in clean area it will do it if thermal conditions are decent. But that is about the absolute furtherest that I have been able to spot a fox in outline mode. If there is any vegetation the distance will drop significantly depending on how thick.
If you want a head mounted thermal spotter, the MTM or even the Breach would be a better choice ... the breach is lower cost. The plus of the coti is for helping the 14 aim with the laser when the 14 can't see the critter.
I do occasionally go "minimalist" with only 1x14 and the coti. But that's usually in open pasture ... and for whatever reason I also use outline mode for that
... And it works great for detection. Out to about 600yds, ,depending on thermal condiions. But I still don't consider the coti to be much of a spotter. The MTM and Breach are your under $4k solutions for head mounted spotting.
I do occasionally go "minimalist" with only 1x14 and the coti. But that's usually in open pasture ... and for whatever reason I also use outline mode for that
... And it works great for detection. Out to about 600yds, ,depending on thermal condiions. But I still don't consider the coti to be much of a spotter. The MTM and Breach are your under $4k solutions for head mounted spotting.
I do 150% 2nd Wig's assessment. If I had to do either/or, I would pick a Breach, MTM over a COTI if I could only have one.If you want a head mounted thermal spotter, the MTM or even the Breach would be a better choice ... the breach is lower cost. The plus of the coti is for helping the 14 aim with the laser when the 14 can't see the critter.
I do occasionally go "minimalist" with only 1x14 and the coti. But that's usually in open pasture ... and for whatever reason I also use outline mode for that
A quick update: I have now paired the 5-button remote to the Breach and holy cow is that an entirely different experience. Playing with the settings quite a bit lead to an image that I can run on weak side with a PVS14 on the strong side. It is watching a digital screen, so not the same as watching through an optic, but my brain can pair the images.
I am running dual 14s in spotting and moving, but have been using the Breach/14 when solo hunting in blackout mode.
For Breach owners struggling with the stupid buttons on the device, get the remote - so worth the time and money!
I am running dual 14s in spotting and moving, but have been using the Breach/14 when solo hunting in blackout mode.
For Breach owners struggling with the stupid buttons on the device, get the remote - so worth the time and money!
I take hook and loop and make a watch band for mine after removing it out of the rubber picatinny rail holder. Put it on just like a watch and it makes it super easy to zoom in and out plus access any other menu features. These 5 Button Remotes run off of CR123 Batteries and you just screw off the back plate and put a new one to change.
Mine is similar but more ghetto. I had an old Suunto watch that died and put hook on the face and loop on the back of the remote (without pic rail interface.) Same thing: wrist mount, easy access.
Hand made Con-Trap-shun..... (contraption).....
Rear view
Front view
Pictured with Wilcox bridge.
Thing works fine right now hand held. Got to make adjustments to center units when on helmet mount. Need to move both units left.
Re-do/lengthen left slot, and see what happens. No, they wont flip out sideways, out of the way, but, this will work on the super inexpensive side. For the do it at home handyman.
Rear view
Front view
Pictured with Wilcox bridge.
Thing works fine right now hand held. Got to make adjustments to center units when on helmet mount. Need to move both units left.
Re-do/lengthen left slot, and see what happens. No, they wont flip out sideways, out of the way, but, this will work on the super inexpensive side. For the do it at home handyman.
Thanks to all, this has been a very instructive thread for me. Has anyone tried to run a Patrol/PVS14 dual setup that wears glasses? If so, is there a dual mount that will push the Patrol further forward? I currently have a Wilcox G22 and their dual bridge and even with one arm on the dual bridge flipped and reversed to provide more forward movement of the Patrol, I still cannot wear my glasses.
Not sure what kind of helmet you are running but here is a thought for you to maybe consider. You can take the thicker 4D brow pad and put in a helmet and it pushes your face away from the mount say 1/2 to maybe 3/4" ish and that will put your NODS/Devices a little bit further out.
Just a thought on how you position a helmet on your head via pads, H Nape Ratchet band etc.
T
Thanks, have not thought of that but will check. Running with a Team Wendy bump helmet.
@BamaSE
helmet with AKA2 at full extension with dual 14 unit on Integrated Components lightweight mount. Bottom view and side view. Maybe it will give a frame of reference. Hopefully.
helmet with AKA2 at full extension with dual 14 unit on Integrated Components lightweight mount. Bottom view and side view. Maybe it will give a frame of reference. Hopefully.
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@j-huskey . I can tell just by looking at those pics it is comfortable. I hear some crying about the weight of a dual set of PVS 14's and I think most of that comes from they don't have the inside of their helmets set up/padded correctly and or properly counter weighted.
Also, because of not being setup up correctly, quite often they are having to run their chinstraps way too tight. Setting up a helmet correctly is probably the most important thing to enjoying a night out under NODS IMHO.
Also, because of not being setup up correctly, quite often they are having to run their chinstraps way too tight. Setting up a helmet correctly is probably the most important thing to enjoying a night out under NODS IMHO.
You and I are in agreement on proper setup. Do it wrong and suffer, badly. Do it right, still not the most fun, but works well enough to have fun removing mr yote or ms pig.
I hate a helmet, especially a kevlar.... for some strange reason... ????
I hate a helmet, especially a kevlar.... for some strange reason... ????
Tha
Thanks for sharing this. I will share a picture of the setup, but it will be a couple days before I am back and town and can do so. It looks just like the last pic with the right Wilcox arm flipped too.
@BamaSE
Frog05's bridge is an Integrated Components unit, using the unit's removable arm on the 14, and the bridge receptacle (minus that arm) for the patrol's dovetail.
Newguys setup is the wilcox bridge. I have spent about an hour screwing with my wilcox bridge and my Reap/IR, which is the same body fit as the patrol. I cant get any different setup than the pic shown.
And.... it's back under the helmet lip, around 3/8" at full forward extension.
Real close to my glasses experiment.
Cant say how it might work for you without you actually trying an aka2.
Is BamaSE an indicator you are "in south east Bama" ?
If you are, I am in central east bama, near (kinda) Ft Benning and the cow college (?)...
Potential for hands on some equipment.
Frog05's bridge is an Integrated Components unit, using the unit's removable arm on the 14, and the bridge receptacle (minus that arm) for the patrol's dovetail.
Newguys setup is the wilcox bridge. I have spent about an hour screwing with my wilcox bridge and my Reap/IR, which is the same body fit as the patrol. I cant get any different setup than the pic shown.
And.... it's back under the helmet lip, around 3/8" at full forward extension.
Real close to my glasses experiment.
Cant say how it might work for you without you actually trying an aka2.
Is BamaSE an indicator you are "in south east Bama" ?
If you are, I am in central east bama, near (kinda) Ft Benning and the cow college (?)...
Potential for hands on some equipment.
@BamaSE @j-huskey is correct, it is an
IC Bridge. Here is a better pic showing Eyepiece offset with a 14/Patrol setup. (Its not a great pic but it's the best one I've got that shows what we are talking about)
As you can tell, it wasn't perfect by any means but I found it very usuable. I didnt have any issues with eye box on either unit that I recall.
I ran it with a Norotos Lo Sto most of the time with no problems but I did try it out with a Wilcox G22 and that gave me the option of running it wayyy out there if one needed to do so. Not sure how that would do with glasses but it would take it out far enough that the NVD's looked like they were a mile away from my face! Lol
IC Bridge. Here is a better pic showing Eyepiece offset with a 14/Patrol setup. (Its not a great pic but it's the best one I've got that shows what we are talking about)
As you can tell, it wasn't perfect by any means but I found it very usuable. I didnt have any issues with eye box on either unit that I recall.
I ran it with a Norotos Lo Sto most of the time with no problems but I did try it out with a Wilcox G22 and that gave me the option of running it wayyy out there if one needed to do so. Not sure how that would do with glasses but it would take it out far enough that the NVD's looked like they were a mile away from my face! Lol
Yep, about 2 hours south. And my setup is the same eye wise
Yep, about 2 hours due south! And my setup is the same distance off the eyes as your Reap. I can run without my glasses but it is kinda a PIA as I also have to adjust my scope to my eyes with no glasses too then when I flip it up cannot see a thing.....including finding my glasses lol. My wish for Shot Show this year is someone releasing a 640 compact unit that can be easily dual mounted with a 14....for under $5k! And for Trijicon to come out with a drop in rechargeable battery pack for the Reap and Patrol that will run 8 hours....if you’re gonna dream might as well dream big?
That wilcox mount appears to have more forward adjustment than the norotos AKA2, and that IC bridge definitely positions both units further forward than the wilcox bridge.
That is @BamaSE 's best potential option imho.
I wish this stuff didnt cost quite as much as it does......
That is @BamaSE 's best potential option imho.
I wish this stuff didnt cost quite as much as it does......
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My cheap solution to the 14 and mtm unit mounting after revision 2.
It does work, but takes a ton of getting used to. Would work better with a white phosphor 14 than the green.
Still working on dovetail shoes to adapt to the wilcox bridge, shoes should arrive in mail Friday, then we play some more....
Pics will follow.
It does work, but takes a ton of getting used to. Would work better with a white phosphor 14 than the green.
Still working on dovetail shoes to adapt to the wilcox bridge, shoes should arrive in mail Friday, then we play some more....
Pics will follow.
I wish this stuff didnt cost quite as much as it does......
[/QUOTE]
Yep, "That Smokey White & Green Devil" has us almost in as bad a shape as this poor fella. Maybe someone needs to open a "NV Rehab Center"
[/QUOTE]
Yep, "That Smokey White & Green Devil" has us almost in as bad a shape as this poor fella. Maybe someone needs to open a "NV Rehab Center"
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Finally got back to where I can post some pictures and thanks again for all the input, that IC setup sure looks sweet. And ditto on the expense of this stuff. I considered even going with a Breach but the expense of the unit plus all the pieces and parts to run it dual with the 14 was more than I could handle for such a limited use. And I am spoiled by the Patrol clarity. One thing flipping the arm for the Patrol did accomplish is allowing it to even be functional at all with this setup even though without glasses, it was almost pushing on my eyeballs. So folks without glasses should be okay. I have every weight that came with my setup in the pouch plus when I run it I have to strap on a full 20 round 6.8 magazine to get the balance right. It is heavy. I have also found when running either unit solo to just use the Wilcox mount that came with the Patrol. It does allow glasses on the G22 and with the dovetail added to the 14 at least makes it quick and easy in the field to swap out as needed.
Attachments
I can verify it is indeed much easier on the eyes with a white phosphor tube vs green.
For us PO Folks running Green, I have had really great luck with running Sureshot SNR filters. Dang best thing I ever slapped on a Green PVS 14. It doesn't make it white but it tones it down to a very pleasant lighter colored green and eliminates most of the Scintillation such that I see a much clearer image. I don't know what "secret sauce" Jay put in them dam things but he knocked the ball out the park IMHO. I have one set of very noisy Omni 7's that the SNR filter turned them into a really good set of 14's compared to not having them on.
Those filters really help when running beside a Breach.
When running the beach side by side with a 14 has anyone found a way to "dim" the breach further than the settings?...
Basically asking if there are any ways to put something on the back end like we are doing with pvs14 & the snb filters, or lif, or or Wilcox Amber for example. I'd there anything similar being used to dim down the breach?
Basically asking if there are any ways to put something on the back end like we are doing with pvs14 & the snb filters, or lif, or or Wilcox Amber for example. I'd there anything similar being used to dim down the breach?
Get a Sureshot SNR Filter from Surgeon Shooter (Jay) here on the Hide.
Get a Butler Creek Blizzard Size No 3. It friction fits perfectly on the Breach once you take the eyecup off.
Then knock out the lens portion of the flip up cover and Dremel/grind out the plastic so you can fit the the SureShot SNR Filter snugly in the end. Then screw/glue it in.
Alternatively, just take off the flip up portion via the hinge and the SureShot SNR Filter will pretty much fit pretty snugly into the end of the Butler Creek slip on cap. Then glue the SureShot SNR Filter into it.
Then, I suggest running a coated wire leader through the hinge holes and putting a tether on it such that you do not loose your $90 total investment out if the field should it slip off the Breach for some reason.
Butler Creek Blizzard Caps Size No 3
Get a Butler Creek Blizzard Size No 3. It friction fits perfectly on the Breach once you take the eyecup off.
Then knock out the lens portion of the flip up cover and Dremel/grind out the plastic so you can fit the the SureShot SNR Filter snugly in the end. Then screw/glue it in.
Alternatively, just take off the flip up portion via the hinge and the SureShot SNR Filter will pretty much fit pretty snugly into the end of the Butler Creek slip on cap. Then glue the SureShot SNR Filter into it.
Then, I suggest running a coated wire leader through the hinge holes and putting a tether on it such that you do not loose your $90 total investment out if the field should it slip off the Breach for some reason.
Butler Creek Blizzard Caps Size No 3
Amazon.com : Butler Creek Blizzard 3 Scope Cover : Sporting Optic Covers : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : Butler Creek Blizzard 3 Scope Cover : Sporting Optic Covers : Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
I use a combination of Sureshot SNR filers and Night Combat Solutions (glass) Amber filters. There are also some glass amber filters available from Switzerland, last I looked. I have two of the wilcox plastic filters, but they are fuzzy. The glass ones are crystal clear.
Perfect... I had just ordered a couple snb filters to try, and just found out I have a 14 I can't get the retaining ring out of anyway... So I'll try ordering the cap and see what I can do with it until I can figure out how to get the back end off the 14
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
The spine of a butter knife works pretty well.... homemade spanner wrench!
I've used other 'tools" before and they work ok, depending on tolerance for scrapping black-ness off the parts
on my 14s I don't care, they have no warranty. But on the trijcon thermals, I'm still cogitating about less scrapifying methods.
I had o e that came off that way, but I have one the channel locks won't take off... It's not the same scenerio
I've tried getting midevil with the ring and channel locks, while holding the ocular adjustment area with my other hand and it's no where close to letting go. I mean to the point of deforming the ring that retains the eyecup
I've tried getting midevil with the ring and channel locks, while holding the ocular adjustment area with my other hand and it's no where close to letting go. I mean to the point of deforming the ring that retains the eyecup
Yep, its a bitch sometimes when the builder loctites them dam eye cup retainers in. Try putting ice on just the retainer cup to shrink it down a little so maybe it will let go. Aluminum changes temp pretty fast. You might have to use several cubes of ice to get it cold enough to shrink to hopefully loosen it up enough so it will come on out.
I have had some tough ones to get out but usually the channel locks will do it while pretty much marring the sh^t out of the retainer cup. Once you get them out, make sure to take some alcohol and clean out the threads in the eyepiece of any remaining loctite. I typically clean the retainer cup threads well and once clean use them to lightly screw back in and out of the ocular threads with some alcohol to get the ocular threads good and clean. Kind of like re-tapping some threads to get them clean.
Once the ocular threads are clean, I never use loctite again. Also, to properly clean the ocular lens all the way out to the edges, you really need to remove the retainer cup so why the hell would a builder loctite them in other than to "babysit" a user that doesn't check his equipment enough to make sure that the retainer cups are good and hand tight.
I agree Wig, the Wilcox Plastic Amber filter suck big time. I got 2 I need to donate to the Orphanage Home. LOL
Will, put out a good video. All his video's are very good and informative. I think these glass amber ones in his video run about $50 each. The guy he got these glass amber filters can be reached at:
[email protected]
But I do like the rubber outer cups mine came with. I electric tape those to my patrol rear end sometimes to give my eye socket some "bump" protection.
@WhereNow&How I'll try setting up up on an ice pack when I get home today and use the channel locks again
I twisted on it so hard yesterday that I was unscrewing the entire ocular assembly even though I was trying to hold it with my other hand. I'm going to take a small strap wrench to hold the ocular assembly and pray....
Back to dual subject... I tried putting a lif behind the breach to see what it would look like, and it turns the breach the freakiest shade of purple! The lif on the 14s actually looks pretty good I think though.
Any suggestions or thoughts for power supply mounted to back of the crye nightcap to feed the breach for long periods of time?
I twisted on it so hard yesterday that I was unscrewing the entire ocular assembly even though I was trying to hold it with my other hand. I'm going to take a small strap wrench to hold the ocular assembly and pray....
Back to dual subject... I tried putting a lif behind the breach to see what it would look like, and it turns the breach the freakiest shade of purple! The lif on the 14s actually looks pretty good I think though.
Any suggestions or thoughts for power supply mounted to back of the crye nightcap to feed the breach for long periods of time?
Regarding power pack, any decent USB rechargeable battery will work, use a heavy one to offset more up front weight, or a lighter one to if running single or have other stuff as counterweight. I usually carry a few, one on helmet and a few others close by. Since decent rechargeable USB battery packs now cost about as much as a few CR123s, it is a good investment. And they last quite a bit longer.
I have a small velcro pouch on my helmet and can swap power supplies quickly.
Keep in mind, mine is not set up for door-kicking or 2-way ranges - or not purpose-built for that - so someone more high speed might see problems with my suggestions. But for my purposes, it works well.
I have a small velcro pouch on my helmet and can swap power supplies quickly.
Keep in mind, mine is not set up for door-kicking or 2-way ranges - or not purpose-built for that - so someone more high speed might see problems with my suggestions. But for my purposes, it works well.
I personally will do everything I can to reduce and/or eliminate power cables if at all reasonably possible. Snagging and wearing out the Micro-C Port on the Breach are possible hazards that will occur over time. All of that being said, I much more prefer to run the Mod Armory Breach Battery Extender. It offers outstanding run time of 5 hrs and takes but a second to switch out another battery.
So 2 Rechargable 16650 Batteries for a whole 10hr night out without having to deal with cables is so worth it to me.
Battery Extender for FLIR Breach PTQ136 Thermal Monocular - MOD Armory
Extend your range 3 times that of a regualr CR123 with the MOD Armory Battery Extender for FLIR Breach PTQ136 Thermal Monocular.
www.modarmory.com
I'm using battery extenders with pairs of 16650 rechargables with SNIPE and PATROL and it is way better than c123 or wires. And I get similar performance (6 hrs ish) in current temps 20F to 30F at night.
