Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

[Helmet]

Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR in 308win? These powders look less temperature sensitive than RL-17. I was wondering how their performance would compare against RL-17 with the 208 AMAX in 308win. Anybody have any experience with this?

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Right now, I can't see anything beating RL17 in the "208 WIN" game.

I'm trying to decide how to go about trying the 208 AMAX in 308 without going with RL17 or Varget.

I want something temp stable like Varget, but slower than Varget. Was looking at H4350, but I can't gauge whether I could stuff enough of it in the case to reach target velocity.

Hodgdon really needs a stable powder between Varget and H4350.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I was wondering about H4350 as well. Fortunately others have had the same idea and it doesn't look like it's worked out that well. Like you mentioned, it just doesn't have enough room in the case. CFE 223 and/or 2000 MR might be the answer. They are giving better bullet speeds, but I don't know if they will have the same effect on the big 208.

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I have never used either of those powders and am not knowledgable on them. So I can't really comment.

But I would like to know if there are any temp stable powders between Varget and H4350 that would fit in the case. I don't think there are any ball powders that are temp stable.

I'm trying to do research into H414 but it doesn't look to be stable. I guess I'm going to just suck it up and run RL17...

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I've a new barrel orderd and waiting for it before I try the 8lbs of MR2000 sitting on the shelf.

MR2000 in my spacegun with 77gr Nos shot 5-shots for .650 at 200yds. I haven't had a chance to chrono them yet but they felt stiffer than my other load.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Id bet good money 2000MR gives higher velocities.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've a new barrel orderd and waiting for it before I try the 8lbs of MR2000 sitting on the shelf.

MR2000 in my spacegun with 77gr Nos shot 5-shots for .650 at 200yds. I haven't had a chance to chrono them yet but they felt stiffer than my other load. </div></div>What caliber will you be shooting with your new barrel?

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've a new barrel orderd and waiting for it before I try the 8lbs of MR2000 sitting on the shelf.

MR2000 in my spacegun with 77gr Nos shot 5-shots for .650 at 200yds. I haven't had a chance to chrono them yet but they felt stiffer than my other load. </div></div>What caliber will you be shooting with your new barrel? </div></div>

32" 1/11 twist Brux .308 Palma barrel

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Stuff will really be moving fast with 2000 MR out of that long barrel. Let me know if you try something heavy. Heaviest bullet I've seen tried so far with 2000 MR was 185 gr Bergers. He got great speeds out of those.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I've got K's of 190gr Noslers and Sierra's, 400 185 Bergers too just waiting.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1lnbrdg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got K's of 190gr Noslers and Sierra's, 400 185 Bergers too just waiting. </div></div> Getting good performance out of those is almost a sure thing. let us know what kind of speeds you get.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I got good fps with 2000mr and 200gr hybrids, will post when i get home. Been wanting to try 3000 from alliant if and when it becomes available.

 

[gpz750]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Just got back from trying some 208s with cfe223. Tried 43 to 45 in .5 increments at 2.8. 44 was the max before pressure signs.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

If anyone knows what kind of speed their getting I'm very interested. 208 AMAX or 200 Hybrid would give good info on how they work with the heavies.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

2770fps with berger 200gr hybrids, 30in barrel though (stock savage 1:12)

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2770fps with berger 200gr hybrids, 30in barrel though (stock savage 1:12) </div></div>That's very fast for a 200gr bullet in 308. I'm not sure what that would be in a 24" barrel, but it sure sounds good. I shot some 200gr SMKs when I first got my rifle and I was getting closer to 2500fps with Varget. How was the accuracy?

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I ladder tested the .308 Hornady 208 Amax with PP2000MR powder at 300 yds. The "sweet spot" for the 208 grain Amax with PowerPro 2000 MR powder ranged from 43.7 grains to 44.3 grains, with a mid-point (optimal charge weight) of 44.0 grains. The height of this node is 0.5 inches, and the width is 7.1 inches. At this (optimal) charge weight, and a muzzle velocity of 2432 FPS, the gyroscopic stability coefficient was 1.51, which suggests the bullet is effectively stabilized during flight.

Using 44.0 gr. of Power Pro 2000 MR powder, I tested 4 groups at different seating depths. The group with an OAL of 2.252" (0.030" off the lands) produced an average muzzle velocity of 2464 FPS and a best 4-shot group (0.446 MOA MS & 0.184 MOA ATC) at 300 yards.

Rifle is a Savage 110FP (1:10) with a 24" barrel. Distance is 300 yds.

Hope this helps.
Bob

 

[JGorski]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Bob, I know that you know that oal is the measurement from tip to the bottom of the case, so what is is? 2.930" or .......?

 

[JGorski]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

And, gyroscopic stability coefficient? Are you like a professor or what? LOL

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Squarenut: That was very informative, thank you.

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I'm no Professor; however, had I been on Gilligan's Island and been smart enough to make a radio out of a coconut, I would have been smart enough to patch the hole in the side of the boat and leave the island.

The gyroscopic stability is the result of using Dan Miller's twist rule. He measures gyroscopic stability.

I thought "OAL" measured from the ogive to the rear of the case. If I'm using the term incorrectly, I appreciate the correction. Nonetheless, my reference to OAL is from the ogive to the rear of the case. The overall cartridge length is approx. 2.915".

Hope this clarifies. Thanks J.
Bob

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Squarenut: I might be able to reach the speed of your optimal load with a stiff load of Varget. Did you get any pressure signs over 48gr? Any idea what kind of speed it produced?
I got the same stability using this: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
This is one of the few bullets that can actually utilize the Savage 1/10 twist. It's one the reasons that it interests me.

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Squarenut: I might be able to reach the speed of your optimal load with a stiff load of Varget. Did you get any pressure signs over 48gr? Any idea what kind of speed it produced?
I got the same stability using this: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
This is one of the few bullets that can actually utilize the Savage 1/10 twist. It's one the reasons that it interests me. </div></div>


No pressure signs over 48.0, and muzzle velocities (over 48.0) ranged from 2692 fps to 2714 fps.

I've never used Varget with the 208 Amax, but I did try RE-15 which, in my gun, produces results similar to Varget. I got my best results at 42.9 gr., and a muzzle velocity of 2450 - 2500 fps.

Regardless of powder, my best results with the 208 Amax have come from charge weights that generate 2450 - 2500 fps muzzle velocity.

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Squarenut: I might be able to reach the speed of your optimal load with a stiff load of Varget. Did you get any pressure signs over 48gr? Any idea what kind of speed it produced?
I got the same stability using this: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
This is one of the few bullets that can actually utilize the Savage 1/10 twist. It's one the reasons that it interests me. </div></div>

I have recently had great results with the 178 Amax. 46.5 gr. of PP2000MR seated at 2.276" (measured to the ogive) produced muzzle velocities of 2650 fps and a 0.4 MOA (max. spread) at 300 yards. This has become my bullet of choice.

 

[esorensen]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Tried H4350. Can't fit enough powder in the case to justify less speed than Varget. Accurate though. 2450 fps from a 24" barrel. Only tried PP2000MR with the 185 and 190.

 

[RotARy15]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I'd like to see temp stability numbers between 2000MR and RL17. I want to use the more stable powder for 208 AMAX loads.

 

[mdesign]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Squarenut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....
Regardless of powder, my best results with the 208 Amax have come from charge weights that generate 2450 - 2500 fps muzzle velocity. </div></div>

I've noticed this as well in some of the rifles I load for. Some powders give more speed but the load the rifle likes best is usually in a given range of velocity.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Squarenut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Squarenut: I might be able to reach the speed of your optimal load with a stiff load of Varget. Did you get any pressure signs over 48gr? Any idea what kind of speed it produced?
I got the same stability using this: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
This is one of the few bullets that can actually utilize the Savage 1/10 twist. It's one the reasons that it interests me. </div></div>


No pressure signs over 48.0, and muzzle velocities (over 48.0) ranged from 2692 fps to 2714 fps.

I've never used Varget with the 208 Amax, but I did try RE-15 which, in my gun, produces results similar to Varget. I got my best results at 42.9 gr., and a muzzle velocity of 2450 - 2500 fps.

Regardless of powder, my best results with the 208 Amax have come from charge weights that generate 2450 - 2500 fps muzzle velocity.
</div></div>Great info! I have some 208s and a bunch of Varget. I was trying to decide on what powder would be best to use with the 208s, but if i would just be trading accuracy for speed anyway I'll try the Varget. I should be able to get around 2450fps without too much pressure.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Squarenut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Squarenut: I might be able to reach the speed of your optimal load with a stiff load of Varget. Did you get any pressure signs over 48gr? Any idea what kind of speed it produced?
I got the same stability using this: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
This is one of the few bullets that can actually utilize the Savage 1/10 twist. It's one the reasons that it interests me. </div></div>

I have recently had great results with the 178 Amax. 46.5 gr. of PP2000MR seated at 2.276" (measured to the ogive) produced muzzle velocities of 2650 fps and a 0.4 MOA (max. spread) at 300 yards. This has become my bullet of choice. </div></div>I am also having my best results with the 178 AMAX. I still haven't completely given up on the 178 BTHPs because of the higher BC, but they just aren't as promising as the 178 AMAX so far. My Savage absolutely loves Berger 190 VLD hunting bullets with Varget or RL-15, but they just got too expensive. After I give the 208s a fair chance I need to either settle on the 178 AMAX, 178 BTHP, or the 208 AMAX. Did you try the 178 BTHPs at all before going to the 178/208 AMAX?

 

[JGorski]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Squarenut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm no Professor; however, had I been on Gilligan's Island and been smart enough to make a radio out of a coconut, I would have been smart enough to patch the hole in the side of the boat and leave the island.

The gyroscopic stability is the result of using Dan Miller's twist rule. He measures gyroscopic stability.

I thought "OAL" measured from the ogive to the rear of the case. If I'm using the term incorrectly, I appreciate the correction. Nonetheless, my reference to OAL is from the ogive to the rear of the case. The overall cartridge length is approx. 2.915".

Hope this clarifies. Thanks J.
Bob </div></div>

Indeed it does, Bob. Yeah, oal is the overall length, and I use a seater stem which as you know contacts right around a 1/4" from the tip to measure each bullet before seating them, its cheaper than buying a bullet comparator, I think thats what its called, at any rate, it tells me which bullets are going to be seated to the same depth as long as I sort them accordingly, and I usually sort the bullets by length after the seater stem measure. Im hoping it does something for the accuracy, gotta work better than not doing nothing. Oh, and try 47.5grs 2000MR with that 178hpbt, thats with Win brass, CCIBR primers seated to 2.840"oal.
Im getting very decent accuracy, maybe youre using Lapua brass like Im also working with, it doesnt hold as much powder as Win brass, more testing coming up soon with that brass(Lap) next month.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2770fps with berger 200gr hybrids, 30in barrel though (stock savage 1:12) </div></div>That's very fast for a 200gr bullet in 308. I'm not sure what that would be in a 24" barrel, but it sure sounds good. I shot some 200gr SMKs when I first got my rifle and I was getting closer to 2500fps with Varget. How was the accuracy? </div></div>

Sorry, I know it's been a long while, just found this post again in a search and noticed I didn't respond.
250yds: far right was me on the trigger, 5 shots.

I tried this same load on a hot day with a hot gun and I was out of the node....so I don't know if I will be using this powder. This was 47gn of PP, 2.268" to Ogive, .015" jump, win brass.

I did a retest with 50gn of H4350 and the 200's..which I am more in the middle of the node, great ES and SD. Question is, does anyone know if this powder is still temp stable in a 308win? As in I have seen where Varget was not stable in other cartridges that it wasn't designed for.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Edit, this group was thru a Criterion 1:10 barrel and the fps were a little less than the 2770 I got with the stock barrel, more accurate too.

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

My experience so far with MR-2000 is that you have to be very close to the overpressure point for good accuracy. When you are that close, if the temp gets up, primers start falling out. Ruined a hand-full of brass that ways. I wasn't over impressed with the velocity either. Was just short of what I could do with Varget. YMMV.

Shooting the rest of mine up in my AR-15 behind 77gr Noslers. A bit slow for that application since I can't get enough powder in the case with that long bullet seated as deep as it does but it shoots good.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

I tried it with 43.2 2000 mr out of a 22" bartlein gap crusader. Lapua brass fgm210 at 2.830"(AI mags) at 165 yards 5 shots produced 2 holes that were touching but speed wasn't there. I also tried same set up w/ 42.0 varget and at 400 yards 5 shots measured less than one inch. At 520 yards right at one inch. I was shocked (in a good way) But the pressure was on the tipping point so I deciding to save my eyes and fingers and quit then. But for guys with more freebore and a longer barrel I'd say why not. Just make sure your jumping them and not jammed into lands so you too can keep your eyes and fingers

 

[Bob 964]

Re: Anyone tried 208 AMAX's with CFE 223 or 2000 MR?

Recently conducted OCW test using the PP2000MR and 208 Amax. Found a good node (47.6 - 48.3) and mid-point (48.0). Seating depth testing @ 300 yds. confirmed 2.282" (measured to ogive) performed best. Velocity has averaged 2600 with SD of 14 FPS.

My gun (Savage 110FP) loves this bullet. I will eventually try the CFE223, but all my testing and all my other shooting suggests a need to refine my technique, not switch powders. I have learned enough from Hide members and I have refined my handloading techniques to the point where every round is damn near exactly like the one that preceded it. My frustrations stem from feeling the bipod hop in the middle of a group and seeing its impact on my POA.