i have been using the lee crimp die when loading for my lr .308 due to being a auto loader. does anyone use them for thier bolt gun.
thanks
thanks
anyone using lee factory crimp die?
- Thread starter cobyb
- Start date
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have been using the lee crimp die when loading for my lr .308 due to being a auto loader. does anyone use them for thier bolt gun.
thanks </div></div>
I have one for 7 Rem Mag and I've used it only once. I use bushing dies now and I can add/subract tension as I see fit, so no crimping for me.
Their FCD for pistol rounds seem to be interesting, as they'll also 'resize' the loaded round, as well as apply a crimp.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have been using the lee crimp die when loading for my lr .308 due to being a auto loader. does anyone use them for thier bolt gun.
thanks </div></div>
I have one for 7 Rem Mag and I've used it only once. I use bushing dies now and I can add/subract tension as I see fit, so no crimping for me.
Their FCD for pistol rounds seem to be interesting, as they'll also 'resize' the loaded round, as well as apply a crimp.
Chris
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
In my opinion, if there is a need to crimp, the Lee Factory Crimp Die is the best way to do it. A 308 Winchester round, however, doesn't need a crimp even if to be shot in an autoloader.
In my opinion, if there is a need to crimp, the Lee Factory Crimp Die is the best way to do it. A 308 Winchester round, however, doesn't need a crimp even if to be shot in an autoloader.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
HAve one for .223 Rem - the Dillon roll crimp just doesn't get the mouth of the cartridge far enough into the cannelure.,
I have the .308 Win and .338 LM factory crimpers for subsonic loads for the same reason. Better consistency, keeps the bullet in place indexed at the cannelure. Works as advertised.
I just recently got the Lee pistol die set for .44 Mag and really like the case crimper-resizer. I've got a half dozen Lee pistol die sets for odd calibers I shoot occasionally (like 44-40 and 38 S&W) and this is a really nice feature they've added.
HAve one for .223 Rem - the Dillon roll crimp just doesn't get the mouth of the cartridge far enough into the cannelure.,
I have the .308 Win and .338 LM factory crimpers for subsonic loads for the same reason. Better consistency, keeps the bullet in place indexed at the cannelure. Works as advertised.
I just recently got the Lee pistol die set for .44 Mag and really like the case crimper-resizer. I've got a half dozen Lee pistol die sets for odd calibers I shoot occasionally (like 44-40 and 38 S&W) and this is a really nice feature they've added.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
Dittos on what Grumulkin had to say here. I am absolutley <span style="text-decoration: underline">not </span>a fan of Lee equipment, but they really nailed it on the FCD. I very rarely (read; almost NEVER) crimp rifle rounds, but I use the Lee FCD on every straight-wall pistol cartridge I load. The 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9mm Para, 380 ACP, you name it, the Lee FCD is the last die in the press and all the rounds go through. Don't think I've had an ammo related malfunction in tens of thousands of rounds loaded since I started using the FCDs. These, and case gages are necessary tools for loading ammo for automatic pistols.
He's also spot on about most rifles (including autoloaders) not needing a crimp, so long as you've got adequate neck tension to secure the bullet. If you do crimp, just remember that "less is more" and don't over do it.
Dittos on what Grumulkin had to say here. I am absolutley <span style="text-decoration: underline">not </span>a fan of Lee equipment, but they really nailed it on the FCD. I very rarely (read; almost NEVER) crimp rifle rounds, but I use the Lee FCD on every straight-wall pistol cartridge I load. The 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9mm Para, 380 ACP, you name it, the Lee FCD is the last die in the press and all the rounds go through. Don't think I've had an ammo related malfunction in tens of thousands of rounds loaded since I started using the FCDs. These, and case gages are necessary tools for loading ammo for automatic pistols.
He's also spot on about most rifles (including autoloaders) not needing a crimp, so long as you've got adequate neck tension to secure the bullet. If you do crimp, just remember that "less is more" and don't over do it.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
I don't crimp rifles but I like the Factory Crimp dies for straightwalled pistols.
I use cast bullet. When I size the cases and install the bullet you often get a ring at the bottom of the bullet. This ring would sometimes cause problems loading.
The LFC die for pistols has a carbide ring at the bottom of the die which does a final case sizing after you crimp the case and pull the die off the case.
This makes for some nice smooth loading into the cylinder. It really helps with chambering WCs in my Smith Model 52 wad gun.
The Lee FCD is necessary if you are loading for the Nagant pistol with its weird crimp where the bullet is totaly inside the case.
I don't crimp rifles but I like the Factory Crimp dies for straightwalled pistols.
I use cast bullet. When I size the cases and install the bullet you often get a ring at the bottom of the bullet. This ring would sometimes cause problems loading.
The LFC die for pistols has a carbide ring at the bottom of the die which does a final case sizing after you crimp the case and pull the die off the case.
This makes for some nice smooth loading into the cylinder. It really helps with chambering WCs in my Smith Model 52 wad gun.
The Lee FCD is necessary if you are loading for the Nagant pistol with its weird crimp where the bullet is totaly inside the case.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike
thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike </div></div>
Richard Lee wrote in his "2nd addition" that some loads he submitted for pressure testing showed an increase in pressure of around 250 lbs when crimped. What he indicated was that the crimping of rifle rounds made it easier to insure proper "release pressure" (pressure when bullet starts to move) for the bullets which ammo manufacturers consider around 100 lbs.
I did a limited study a couple years ago regarding the Lee FCD and Concentricity of finished rounds. I loaded 100 rounds of .308, measured TIR, then crimped each round with a medium crimp and measured again. Overall, the TIR was reduced. On rounds that had low runout it almost disappeared. On those with higher runout it was merely reduced.
Today I run a Lee FCD in Sta 5 on my 650 set for a light crimp. Just enough "squeeze" to fit the case mouth tight to the bullet but not enough to form a ring in the bullet jacket.
On my .223 and 9mm rounds I consider it an essential step. No more set back bullets in .223 rounds (when feeding from a less than good magazine) and no failure to go into battery on the 9mm due to any bulging of the cases.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike </div></div>
Richard Lee wrote in his "2nd addition" that some loads he submitted for pressure testing showed an increase in pressure of around 250 lbs when crimped. What he indicated was that the crimping of rifle rounds made it easier to insure proper "release pressure" (pressure when bullet starts to move) for the bullets which ammo manufacturers consider around 100 lbs.
I did a limited study a couple years ago regarding the Lee FCD and Concentricity of finished rounds. I loaded 100 rounds of .308, measured TIR, then crimped each round with a medium crimp and measured again. Overall, the TIR was reduced. On rounds that had low runout it almost disappeared. On those with higher runout it was merely reduced.
Today I run a Lee FCD in Sta 5 on my 650 set for a light crimp. Just enough "squeeze" to fit the case mouth tight to the bullet but not enough to form a ring in the bullet jacket.
On my .223 and 9mm rounds I consider it an essential step. No more set back bullets in .223 rounds (when feeding from a less than good magazine) and no failure to go into battery on the 9mm due to any bulging of the cases.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike </div></div>
Crimping can increase pressure, but I read a report last week somewhere, or a post, where they measured the increase in pressure after crimps were made on like a 223 Rem round.
It ended up being only a modest ~300psi increase, less than 1%, so I don't know how bad, bad can be?
You can measure crimps with a caliper and kind of get an idea of what's what, if you're careful when measuring just the top, outer edge of the case mouth.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike </div></div>
Crimping can increase pressure, but I read a report last week somewhere, or a post, where they measured the increase in pressure after crimps were made on like a 223 Rem round.
It ended up being only a modest ~300psi increase, less than 1%, so I don't know how bad, bad can be?
You can measure crimps with a caliper and kind of get an idea of what's what, if you're careful when measuring just the top, outer edge of the case mouth.
Chris
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike</div></div>
I have set my 308 FCD to crimp heavy and light and all points in between, and run experiments comparing crimped vs uncrimped accuracy in both a Remington 700 and a semi auto. Some did make a difference in velocity spread and some made none at all. This was true in both guns, it was totally dependent on the individual load. After a while I stopped using the FCD altogether as I concluded that it wasn't making enough of a difference to add a step in my reloading. I never noticed any bullet setback complications in the semi auto with uncrimped rounds running 0.002" neck tension.
As to your question, overdoing the crimp can certainly shit up the case mouths and decrease the case life there for obvious reasons. And overdoing it will distort the jacket, especially on thin jacketed bullets like the AMAX and VLD. Whether or not that changes accuracy as I observed was dependent on load, I never went so far with the crimp that it was obviously In danger of changing bullet integrity. FWIW, I never saw pressure signs appear from crimping that were not present without, and most of my bolt rifle loads were above book max, but YMMV.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks all, when you say less is more and not to over do it, will this cause pressure to spike</div></div>
I have set my 308 FCD to crimp heavy and light and all points in between, and run experiments comparing crimped vs uncrimped accuracy in both a Remington 700 and a semi auto. Some did make a difference in velocity spread and some made none at all. This was true in both guns, it was totally dependent on the individual load. After a while I stopped using the FCD altogether as I concluded that it wasn't making enough of a difference to add a step in my reloading. I never noticed any bullet setback complications in the semi auto with uncrimped rounds running 0.002" neck tension.
As to your question, overdoing the crimp can certainly shit up the case mouths and decrease the case life there for obvious reasons. And overdoing it will distort the jacket, especially on thin jacketed bullets like the AMAX and VLD. Whether or not that changes accuracy as I observed was dependent on load, I never went so far with the crimp that it was obviously In danger of changing bullet integrity. FWIW, I never saw pressure signs appear from crimping that were not present without, and most of my bolt rifle loads were above book max, but YMMV.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
i ended up crimping a ladder test load-up yesterday before i got any advice and shot them this mourning. 39.5-44 is the min and max load my lyman book says. i went through the hole scale by .3 increments. the primers cratered with the first one and start to flatin out at 40.1, i went to 42.2 and stoped. does that sound about right, and should i start with a lower charge. i dont have a chrongraph yet so i dont have those numbers. light to medium crimp
federal cases 178 gr a-max varget cci primers rem 700 5r
thanks again
i ended up crimping a ladder test load-up yesterday before i got any advice and shot them this mourning. 39.5-44 is the min and max load my lyman book says. i went through the hole scale by .3 increments. the primers cratered with the first one and start to flatin out at 40.1, i went to 42.2 and stoped. does that sound about right, and should i start with a lower charge. i dont have a chrongraph yet so i dont have those numbers. light to medium crimp
federal cases 178 gr a-max varget cci primers rem 700 5r
thanks again
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i ended up crimping a ladder test load-up yesterday before i got any advice and shot them this mourning. 39.5-44 is the min and max load my lyman book says. i went through the hole scale by .3 increments. the primers cratered with the first one and start to flatin out at 40.1, i went to 42.2 and stoped. does that sound about right, and should i start with a lower charge. i dont have a chrongraph yet so i dont have those numbers. light to medium crimp
federal cases 178 gr a-max varget cci primers rem 700 5r
thanks again </div></div>
Your primers may be wimping out on you and showing pressure signs too soon. Also, the Rem 5R has a chamfer on the firing pin hole in the bolt face. My 5-R will show cratering on just about every factory load, or what you might think is cratering. It's just normal flow into the chamfered area. Now when the SECOND cratering ring forms along with a half moon mark on the case head from the ejector, THAT's overpressure in a 5R.
I load 43.5gr Varget with 178 A-Max in Winchester cases and BR-2 Primers. No overpressure and groups at 300 yards are superb.
If you don't have any resistance to opening the bolt and you're below the 44gr max, don't worry about the primers.
BTW, you didn't mention the OAL. For mine I find the best performance at 2.820. I can still load from the mag at this length and it gives me a little more room for powder. It gets better if you just neck size for this rifle. More room for powder and the long throat keeps the pressures down.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cobyb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i ended up crimping a ladder test load-up yesterday before i got any advice and shot them this mourning. 39.5-44 is the min and max load my lyman book says. i went through the hole scale by .3 increments. the primers cratered with the first one and start to flatin out at 40.1, i went to 42.2 and stoped. does that sound about right, and should i start with a lower charge. i dont have a chrongraph yet so i dont have those numbers. light to medium crimp
federal cases 178 gr a-max varget cci primers rem 700 5r
thanks again </div></div>
Your primers may be wimping out on you and showing pressure signs too soon. Also, the Rem 5R has a chamfer on the firing pin hole in the bolt face. My 5-R will show cratering on just about every factory load, or what you might think is cratering. It's just normal flow into the chamfered area. Now when the SECOND cratering ring forms along with a half moon mark on the case head from the ejector, THAT's overpressure in a 5R.
I load 43.5gr Varget with 178 A-Max in Winchester cases and BR-2 Primers. No overpressure and groups at 300 yards are superb.
If you don't have any resistance to opening the bolt and you're below the 44gr max, don't worry about the primers.
BTW, you didn't mention the OAL. For mine I find the best performance at 2.820. I can still load from the mag at this length and it gives me a little more room for powder. It gets better if you just neck size for this rifle. More room for powder and the long throat keeps the pressures down.
Re: anyone using lee factory crimp die?
my oal is 2.810, i wanted to be able to load up the mag without issues, im still trying to get the consistant fractor and a good charge before i start experimenting with the oal. thanks for the heads-up on the pressure signs.
my oal is 2.810, i wanted to be able to load up the mag without issues, im still trying to get the consistant fractor and a good charge before i start experimenting with the oal. thanks for the heads-up on the pressure signs.
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