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Appropriate budget for newbie
- Thread starter CybrSlydr
- Start date
It is outstanding. This is is not cheap, i sure as hell wouldn’t be borrowing money to get into any hobby. Before buying anything, be sure this is a path you want to go down. It’s expensive to start and more expensive to keep going.
Look up Ryan Cleckner, he is a former sniper and sniper instructor. He has a long range shooting handbook that has some good information about the fundamentals, from zeroing the rifle, scope setup to calculating the bullet trajectory with environmental influences. Might be a decent read while recovering
If its cheap and protects, it could have Hillary's face on it for all I care.
Sorry brotha the army says im colorblind but what the fuck do they know.
I’ve never owed anyone a penny. And I intend to never have to. I don’t have much but what I do have is mine. Don’t lend someone any part of your future for now hoping to get it back.
A 100 people are going to give you a 100 options, maybe more. Spend 20.00 and buy this book before you buy your gear. https://www.amazon.com/Long-Range-Shooting-Handbook-Cleckner/dp/151865472XOriginally I posted in the SIG Talk forums asking about getting into precision shooting. I figured $1k would be a good starter budget, and it looks like it would be doable, but as said, buy once and cry once. Plus, I'd be concerned that I may outgrow and regret the purchase at that end of the spectrum.
What about $2k or $2.5? Is what you get at those prices (rifle/optic) worth the upgrade in budget compared to the $1k?
For a beginner such as myself, what do you think a good sweet-spot would be? I don't need a $5k gun and $3k optic.
This is purely a precision target rifle, not hunting.
Thanks!
search Ryan Cleckner on YouTube or even better pay for the online training offered by our board.
Watch the sporting ads local to you for a bolt action deal then buy a fixed SWFA 10x or talk to Doug at camerland for glass. You do not need the electronics as it will only complicate things and you will be a better shot learning your gear and environment.
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I like the Ryan Cleckner approach. I was pretty impressed with my kids Bushnell DMR2 from midwayusa for $800. I have been twisting the hell out of his turrets while doing load development. Every shot gets spun up and down just because.
I shoot a AI with a ATACR for comparison.
The training in the resource section of this website and RiflesOnly videos are the BEST VALUE in positional shooting and long range training IMO.
I own the book referred to above and it's great as a foundation for learning as a beginner. Recommend it highly.
But past that, the training videos here and the RiflesOnly videos taught me more than I could have learned otherwise
I own the book referred to above and it's great as a foundation for learning as a beginner. Recommend it highly.
But past that, the training videos here and the RiflesOnly videos taught me more than I could have learned otherwise
In all truthfulness you would be best served by trying to hook up with some competitors where they practice or at a match. Nothing beats the opportunity to get hands on with some or all of the products you are considering and actually shooting them. I know my wants/needs have evolved as my shooting has improved. Unfortunately, the $$$ has always gone up.
Just don't listen to this guy, he'll just get you into trouble! LOL
What's appealing to me at the moment is a B-14 HMR paired with an SWFA SS HD 5-20x50. Little longer to save up for that, but from what I've read on here, it's a great optic at the price. Even has an option to get a bubble-level.
The RPR is another that appeals to pair with the SWFA. Even better price than the Bergara.
EDIT: Nix that SWFA. Apparently I missed this thread - https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-the-swfa-ss-hd-5-20x50.7041033/#post-9021901
Guess it's not as good as it used to be with other offerings out there now. Especially at it's price-point.
The RPR is another that appeals to pair with the SWFA. Even better price than the Bergara.
EDIT: Nix that SWFA. Apparently I missed this thread - https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-the-swfa-ss-hd-5-20x50.7041033/#post-9021901
Guess it's not as good as it used to be with other offerings out there now. Especially at it's price-point.
I’ve been through a few gun panics, somehow & some way this one will pass like the others.
In the meantime get a used CZ or Bergara .22, upgrade the trigger, a used viper gen 2 5-25x & rings, a few bricks of decent ammo, and buy a $50 ticket to a 25m appleseed shoot. The timed parts will be a little stressful with a bolt gun but the instruction is pretty good for the price tag.
I buy almost everything used; it’s all nice stuff, it just belonged to someone before me. You can do well if you know what you want, stalk the classifieds here, and have money ready to go. Got to be quick though.
In the meantime get a used CZ or Bergara .22, upgrade the trigger, a used viper gen 2 5-25x & rings, a few bricks of decent ammo, and buy a $50 ticket to a 25m appleseed shoot. The timed parts will be a little stressful with a bolt gun but the instruction is pretty good for the price tag.
I buy almost everything used; it’s all nice stuff, it just belonged to someone before me. You can do well if you know what you want, stalk the classifieds here, and have money ready to go. Got to be quick though.
See how changeable my mind is?
Now I'm thinking a Howa 1500 barreled action with either a KRG Bravo or maybe the MDT LSS-XL Gen 2.
There are too many damned options!!! lol
Now I'm thinking a Howa 1500 barreled action with either a KRG Bravo or maybe the MDT LSS-XL Gen 2.
There are too many damned options!!! lol
I pretty much agree with everything above ^^^.
That said, there's probably never been a "cheaper" time to get into long range shooting, just because of the times, and what that computer that's probably in one's pocket and is with one 24/7 can do.
For starting out and learning the ropes, you don't really need a chrono, Kestrel, or range finder anymore: you DO need access to a range that goes out to 300 yards (or preferably further) that has targets at known distances (usually permanently setup steel) AND an iPhone (or equivalent) with service at your location.
"Chrono" = Strelok Pro for $8 or the Hornady free ballistics app (Strelok is better/easier IMO). Actually spend the time to enter all the info about your rifle/scope/bullet exactly (measure the height over bore of your scope, don't guess, etc). They both have "truing" features that let you find your average muzzle velocity. If you enter your shit correctly, it's spot on. If you can true your MV at 600 yards, IMHO that's better than a chrono'd MV anyways.
"Kestrel" = iPhone again, weather app, scroll down... ballparks for wind, pressure, and humidity. Compass app, bearing and elevation. Vegetation and "wind flags" are out there and free. Learning wind is the hardest thing and bane of all of us no matter what fancy gadget one has, might as wall start learning from the start.
"Range Finder" = Shoot at known distances for a while, then work on learning how to mil targets "the old fashioned way". If you're at a match they'll give you the ranges or someone will share their info (unless they're douchebags lol).
FFP scopes have come down in price significantly, that's a huge one right there. It wasn't that long ago when you couldn't touch a FFP scope good for out to 1000yrds for less than $1000 or more, now I can think of a few of them for less than $500.
It's true, it takes other stuff besides a rifle. And, it ain't cheap lol. But, like I said earlier in the thread, ammo is the thing. If you can't shoot, you'll always suck and won't develop your skills, practice makes perfect is real, you need to put some milage on your odometer in order to really figure some things out. You need ammo as much as the rifle really.
It doesn't matter if you can afford to buy some Gucci Manners/Impact/Bartlien/Kahles or whatever rifle if you don't have ammo to shoot. If you can't afford the fancy rifle AND either a few grand in factory ammo (if you can find it), or preferably, a reloading rig and components, then time to reevaluate what you can really afford to swing, and maybe the Gucci rifle happens later down the road (maybe when you pick it up off a prize table, who knows?).
I have a Howa in a Bravo with an Arken and a Harris, ~$2000 all-in for the rifle (that's with a couple hundred bucks in weights and misc KRG add-ons). I load all my rifle ammo on a $100 Lyman Ideal single-stage with a $50 powder measure and a $50 scale. I don't own a chrono, Kestrel, or range finder (yet?). A lot of guys have spent more on their scope than my whole rig...
This is from a couple days ago, 1000 yards off a bipod and rear bag:
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Originally I posted in the SIG Talk forums asking about getting into precision shooting. I figured $1k would be a good starter budget, and it looks like it would be doable, but as said, buy once and cry once. Plus, I'd be concerned that I may outgrow and regret the purchase at that end of the spectrum.
What about $2k or $2.5? Is what you get at those prices (rifle/optic) worth the upgrade in budget compared to the $1k?
For a beginner such as myself, what do you think a good sweet-spot would be? I don't need a $5k gun and $3k optic.
This is purely a precision target rifle, not hunting.
Thank
Since you mentioned the b14, I'd suggest the following:
1. Anarchy outdoors 20 or 30 moa scope rail with bubble built in.
2. Slytactical sling with QD mounts as the hmr already has the QD mounts built into the stock.
3. Seekins bipod mount 3"
4. Arken optics sh4 GenII
or primary arms optics
Apollo is good. Arken optics has a good deal as if you buy the scope from them they throw in rings at a discount.
5. Bipod - accutac is good as well as many others.
6. Get ammo and have fun
More importantly get good training. You may spend more on training than the actual rifle but it's worth it.
Good gear is nice but what good is it if you don't know how to use it?
Check out Rex's videos for a set up under or around $1000.
Part I
Part II
yup, he keeps things very simple. that dmr2 and a TC or savage 110 for 300 (even less on sale) would get him on target and out shooting.
Do you want to win or just participate and have fun??? Success don't come cheap.Originally I posted in the SIG Talk forums asking about getting into precision shooting. I figured $1k would be a good starter budget, and it looks like it would be doable, but as said, buy once and cry once. Plus, I'd be concerned that I may outgrow and regret the purchase at that end of the spectrum.
What about $2k or $2.5? Is what you get at those prices (rifle/optic) worth the upgrade in budget compared to the $1k?
For a beginner such as myself, what do you think a good sweet-spot would be? I don't need a $5k gun and $3k optic.
This is purely a precision target rifle, not hunting.
Thanks!
Cleckner is great. Some people dog on Savage but they do make a good shooting rifle.
If one gets good training then you can shoot just as good if not better than those with expensive equipment and no training.
First, have fun. Won't keep doing something I don't enjoy. If I end up enjoying it and aren't terrible at it, then maybe compete. But that's a big if and waaay further down the road.
I watched a video on Vortex's site of Cleckner sighting in a gun and optic. I like his style. Isn't super formal, knows what he's doing, but knows he isn't infallible either. Great attitude.
Never take a loan to shoot a $5 bill down the barrel. It is financially a bad habit.
Good talk Russ!
Low end: Savage Axis in 6.5 Creedmoor with a mid-range vortex scope. Yep, scope costs more than the rifle.Originally I posted in the SIG Talk forums asking about getting into precision shooting. I figured $1k would be a good starter budget, and it looks like it would be doable, but as said, buy once and cry once. Plus, I'd be concerned that I may outgrow and regret the purchase at that end of the spectrum.
What about $2k or $2.5? Is what you get at those prices (rifle/optic) worth the upgrade in budget compared to the $1k?
For a beginner such as myself, what do you think a good sweet-spot would be? I don't need a $5k gun and $3k optic.
This is purely a precision target rifle, not hunting.
Thanks!
Mid-range: Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor with a low end Nightforce scope. Both cost about the same. This will take you out to 1000 easy, can stretch to 1350.
Use your Biden check towards it !!! Although best thing to do with Biden check is stick it in the bank to pay the Biden taxes that are coming.
Think about starting in Precision Rimfire. Guns, optics and ammo are a lot cheaper. You can learn a lot about distance precision shooting with only 150 yards of range with a .22. The limited power of a .22 forces you to understand the dynamics of distance shooting, effects of wind, etc. Plus it is a heck of a lot of fun!Originally I posted in the SIG Talk forums asking about getting into precision shooting. I figured $1k would be a good starter budget, and it looks like it would be doable, but as said, buy once and cry once. Plus, I'd be concerned that I may outgrow and regret the purchase at that end of the spectrum.
What about $2k or $2.5? Is what you get at those prices (rifle/optic) worth the upgrade in budget compared to the $1k?
For a beginner such as myself, what do you think a good sweet-spot would be? I don't need a $5k gun and $3k optic.
This is purely a precision target rifle, not hunting.
Thanks!
I don't think it gets mentioned enough around here how huge a fucking resource Youtube is for folks learning to shoot long range these days!
I'd never shot rifles past 100 yards much at all really, or loaded a single rifle round up until less than a year ago. Now I get bored sometimes at my regular club range because it only goes out to 400 yards and doesn't have any props to play with.
If someone were to ask me who taught me how to shoot long range and/or reload rifle rounds I'd have to say: Frank Galli (our host), Pieter Malan, Scott Saterlee, Erik Cortina, Philip Velayo, Robert Brantley, F-Class John, etc - I've never met any of these dudes! But, I've watched a shit ton of youtube... and we're all lucky there are a bunch of good guys who are willing to share their knowledge.
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I'll be using mine to move into a new apartment towards the end of April. Well, most of it anyway.
700-1800 could get u a real nice rifle, bergara to seekins. Neither would u ever regret or become more accurate than. Both are extremelly accurate manufacturers Bergara has every flavor u could possibly want.
1300-2000 is the point of diminishing returns, if u shop smart, like i try, eurooptic runs awesome sales, u just need to be patient. Nightforce, leica, zeiss, swavorski, scmidt bender.
I have a bergara ridge with a leica amplus scope, this is my new favorite gun too shoot. If you told me to put you the best set up for as little money as possible this is what id put together for u. I spent today comparing the leica amplus (1300) against my nightforce atacr (2500). the leica amplus is a great scope at its price point.
my biggest regrets in purchasing firearms, was cheaping out on glass. now optics excite me much more than the guns they are on. As its usually the weakest link.
1300-2000 is the point of diminishing returns, if u shop smart, like i try, eurooptic runs awesome sales, u just need to be patient. Nightforce, leica, zeiss, swavorski, scmidt bender.
I have a bergara ridge with a leica amplus scope, this is my new favorite gun too shoot. If you told me to put you the best set up for as little money as possible this is what id put together for u. I spent today comparing the leica amplus (1300) against my nightforce atacr (2500). the leica amplus is a great scope at its price point.
my biggest regrets in purchasing firearms, was cheaping out on glass. now optics excite me much more than the guns they are on. As its usually the weakest link.
I’m kinda in the same boat. I’ve been shooting out to 600 yds with my old Savage 308 and good Vortex scope. Just bought a Ruger Precision rifle 308 (abt $1300). Planning to put the same Vortex scope (tactical HST, 6-24). That was abt $700 so I’ve got roughly $2K in my beginning outfit. Looking to extend to 1000 yds with that rig. That’s the longest shot I can take anywhere within 2 days drive of my east coast home. Good luck. It really fun.Originally I posted in the SIG Talk forums asking about getting into precision shooting. I figured $1k would be a good starter budget, and it looks like it would be doable, but as said, buy once and cry once. Plus, I'd be concerned that I may outgrow and regret the purchase at that end of the spectrum.
What about $2k or $2.5? Is what you get at those prices (rifle/optic) worth the upgrade in budget compared to the $1k?
For a beginner such as myself, what do you think a good sweet-spot would be? I don't need a $5k gun and $3k optic.
This is purely a precision target rifle, not hunting.
Thanks!
I went a little overboard setting up (I've got a great friend who's a wonderful firearms purchase enabler, but even he didn't think of spending hobby money as a way to potentially improve credit, so kudos there). I really like the gear and had the money, so I don't regret it. But if I was starting out again and I was on a budget I'd just use Strelok for ballistic calculator, I'd buy a used 4.5x27 Razor scope and then either buy a KRG Bravo chassis with a good barrel, action, and trigger, or else go with the Bergara or Tikka rifles already outfitted for PRS.
All of those are decent options. The bravo being similar to a stock vs the aluminum chassis of the other two. A lot of what you prefer will come down to preference and how it fits your body and your style of shooting.
The best way to see what you like is get behind a few rifles with both and see what fits you best before buying
Obviously this isn’t always an option. So my next suggestion if you can do that is find one you think you’ll like based on your needs and if you can find a sale or get out of the px here you can use and if you decide you want something else you can sell here with minimal loss.
Ive shot most out there from manners/McMillan to MDT/XLR/AI etc. I personally prefer a chassis vs a stock just for the adjustment. At 6’2” 265 lbs I can get a chassis to fit better for me personally.
I also prefer a longer forend or spigot mount to get my bipod out further towards the muzzle for stability
I had the MDT LSS-XL Gen-2. For $500, all you get is the chassis itself - buttstock is NOT included. If you have a nice AR-platform buttstock laying around, that will work with the appropriate adapter as described on the MDT web site.
The MDT LSS-XL is an older design - no ARCA rail builtin (can be added) and the positioning of the grip mount will push a vertical grip about 1/4 - 3/8" too far down (not an issue with standard AR-style slanted grips). It's pretty lightweight. You can put all the cool bells&whistles on it but by that point you're near the $1k range which opens the door to more current designs.
I can't speak to the XRS... I'm a chassis guy.
Don't get me wrong wrt my comments about LSS chassis. MDT is an awesome company with whom I've dealt many times. Their customer service sets the bar - few companies come close. Buy from MDT with confidence! And they do have a 30-day return policy if you don't like what you get. If you have questions or just aren't sure about something, call them.
That's good info to know - I hadn't realized that about the LSS. Thank you!
Forget about a budget. That's an adventure in fantasy. I have never seen or made a budget that looked anything realistically like what was either needed or purchased.
Go shopping with a couple of experienced shooters, and handle the items, check out the price, and get their advice on all of it. Once done, make up the list, with the costs, and consider what's essential.
The rest can wait.
Break your projections down to what you absolutely need as a bare minimum, what would make life more bearable on the range, and what looks great, but has no compelling value at your beginner's level.
That's your budget, in logical steps.
I think a 223 bolt gun is an excellent first rifle. a basic 3-9x hunting scope will get you on target, and basic name brand 55gr ammo will serve you well enough as a start.
Cleckner's handbook is an esssential, and Lowlight's book is also a necessity.
Greg
Go shopping with a couple of experienced shooters, and handle the items, check out the price, and get their advice on all of it. Once done, make up the list, with the costs, and consider what's essential.
The rest can wait.
Break your projections down to what you absolutely need as a bare minimum, what would make life more bearable on the range, and what looks great, but has no compelling value at your beginner's level.
That's your budget, in logical steps.
I think a 223 bolt gun is an excellent first rifle. a basic 3-9x hunting scope will get you on target, and basic name brand 55gr ammo will serve you well enough as a start.
Cleckner's handbook is an esssential, and Lowlight's book is also a necessity.
Greg
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Be careful... just because it looks like a chassis doesn't mean it actually does all the "chassis stuff". Half of the advantage of a chassis is that they're modular, allowing one to add stuff as needs arise and/or as they see fit.
IIRC the Oryx, XRS, and LSS chassis' don't allow one to add all the options that some others like the Bravo do... that's something you should look at before you click buy.
FWIW, I dig my Bravo as mine sits now, but I added an ARCA rail ($70), a spigot ($70), internal weight ($70), pair of buttstock weights ($50), and a pair of m-lok weights ($60), then an RRS pic/arca adapter for my bipod ($90)... so what looks like a $350 chassis can quickly become a $700+ chassis (which in reality is still pretty good considering how it performs, it's still half what an MDT ACC or MPA with all the weights costs).
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