Sony A7R IVa and a Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 Art.
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Appropriate budget for newbie
- Thread starter CybrSlydr
- Start date
Well...
If you are still looking at Custom stuff, I was gonna build this but never go around it. I can make you a sweetheart of a deal!
Bat Machine TR with 308 and 223 bolt in a Genesis 2 Stock.
All she needs is a barrel and optic =)
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Bergara is a solid option and can always be easily upgraded. The custom actions make prefits easy but you can always use a barrel nut setup as well. Around here we say barrels are like tires so the ability to replace barrels is a huge feature.
Lots of actions out there so don’t feel like your options are limited. Personally I really like the ARC stuff but the Mack Bros is super solid and inexpensive.
If you venture over to Pinedale look me up I’ve got just about one of everything and you can fondle before making a decision.
Lots of actions out there so don’t feel like your options are limited. Personally I really like the ARC stuff but the Mack Bros is super solid and inexpensive.
If you venture over to Pinedale look me up I’ve got just about one of everything and you can fondle before making a decision.
The point of this thread was to try and narrow down what my best "bang for the buck" would be for my first precision rifle purchase. Figure out if a $1-2K factory rifle was worth buying or spend a little more and get the "custom" build. If the factory rifle was the better buy, which one would be a good one.
Then figure out what optic I wanted to put on it - I know from the camera world, you always put more money in glass than the body as you swap bodies far more often than glass. Glass also holds its value a lot more than the bodies and it's kinda important to be able to see what you're trying to shoot. So, I was willing to splurge a bit on the glass, maybe a Nightforce NX8 4-32. Maybe find something used for a good price on here.
I figured I'd come back here because you folks are the ones with the experience and knowledge. Instead of helping narrow it down, I've got equal "it's shit" and "it's great" input on everything I've put forth as options, so I'm almost no better off than when I started. lol
Well go grab the Ruger American and slap that NX8 on it lol
Savage, Ruger is trash.
A lot of the newer production Remingtons are trash but there are a few out there that shoot lights out. Senderos’s, PSS’s, Milspec 5R’s, BDL VS’s, SPS AAC-SD are all great shooters and perfect beginner builds. Easily upgraded down the road. Accuracy won’t be a problem with any of them and if you go with a 308 you’ll set Yourself up better for learning the wind, ammo can be had anywhere, great barrel life and pretty easy to load for. After market Remage barrels are an option on factory r700 receivers also so long as you a smith hasn’t messed with the threads. Just build a 300wm for my little bother using a criterion Remage barrel and it shoots lights out.
Seekins puts out great rifles as well.
Bergera is another great option an utilized a R700 footprint iirc.
None of those Remingtons are on their website - are they all out of production and have to be found second-hand?
yeah gun broker probably your best bet. PSS and Milspec 5R would be my top choices if going R700
My experience was with Gen 1’s so I’m not gonna speak to the Gen 2’s but a litte searching will turn some info up.
Remington 700 5R Gen 2 - Full Review - Sniper Central
We check out the second generation of the 5R to see if it is as good as the first.
snipercentral.com
Exactly why a lot of us, including myself, have bought and sold many, many over the years. Learning curve as well as experience level and likes/dislikes are all changing. The fact is that almost all factory rifles are shooting sub-moa now, and until you start shooting and really refine what matters to you, it's difficult to choose. Add in the fact that everyone has a different opinion (I found the NX8 4-32 complete crap for the money, and returned it, while others think it's the greatest ever) - and the only way you're going to get anywhere is to get something, start shooting it, and try not to lose too much when you sell it. My blind suggestion is always to find some things in the PX so the first depreciation hit is already taken and get shooting - then follow your own path.
edit: my 1st centerfire as an adult was a 700 5R Milspec in 308. The barrel still shoots 3/8. The Gen2 you're looking at is a solid rifle. Be even better if you grab a used one... think I saw a used LTR go in the PX maybe last week fyi...
There isn’t anything really wrong with starting with a Rem 5r, you’ll get a lot out of that rifle. Or any other decent factory rifle. You just need to know that you’ll eventually be dumping more $$ into it somewhere down the line. What that will probably look like is; better stock/chassis, trigger, and/or machine work to the action. I’m not going to include a different barrel here because barrels are consumables and get swapped/shot out all the time no matter what. What you might also need to do a little more with a factory rifle is chase some accuracy problems. It’s not exclusive to factory guns, it’s just a bit more prevalent.
The Bergara type rifles are a little better than a mass produced rifle but you still may be upgrading some pieces as you go.
If you want to buy once/cry once, find a used AI, Sako, DT somewhere that includes a scope.
My opinion is that you should buy a gamer gun package from one of the custom action manufacturers and put the best scope you can afford on it. I’m partial to ARC stuff, they tick all my boxes. I’ll be buying a CDG when those become available and building my own firearm Lego set but they sell complete rifles as well. These guns are an amazing value. All the features of a custom action, great triggers to start with(but you might also still be upgrading/changing), rock solid chassis, and great barrels to get into the prs scene.
Another beauty of the custom action scene is that most of them come with replaceable bolt heads so you can not only swap barrels between cartridges that share the same bolt face, you can choose from literally dozens and dozens of cartridges across several bolt face sizes. You can choose a short action cartridge to learn on then gradually step up to the bigger stuff if you want to shoot farther distances.
Contacted that site about the 700 R-5 Gen 2 in 6.5 - they replied they do have them in stock, so I'm seriously considering buying one.
EDIT: Actually, looking at that site more, I think it's a scam. Multiple spelling errors, the phone number is 1-800-123-4567, e-mail doesn't match the site name...
I don't think I'm going to risk it.
EDIT 2: The e-mail reply was from, "Firearms Gun Shop". I deffo think it's a scam. The site lists an address, so I found that shop on Yelp and they have a link to their site, with an online shop - it's not the same site.
EDIT 3: I called them to let them know and the guy said he was familiar. They've tried to get Google to take it down, but Google says they bought it so stays. He's not happy with Google at all, understandably. So yeah - that site is a complete scam. I'll edit my post and take it down.
EDIT: Actually, looking at that site more, I think it's a scam. Multiple spelling errors, the phone number is 1-800-123-4567, e-mail doesn't match the site name...
I don't think I'm going to risk it.
EDIT 2: The e-mail reply was from, "Firearms Gun Shop". I deffo think it's a scam. The site lists an address, so I found that shop on Yelp and they have a link to their site, with an online shop - it's not the same site.
EDIT 3: I called them to let them know and the guy said he was familiar. They've tried to get Google to take it down, but Google says they bought it so stays. He's not happy with Google at all, understandably. So yeah - that site is a complete scam. I'll edit my post and take it down.
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I didn’t start out this way but I’m currently running 3 different rifles on Bighorn Origin actions. Great features.
Now if you have the money to spend then yeah, hard to beat an Origin action. Swappable boltheads so you can run anything from 223-Mag with nothing more than a bolt head swap and a barre
Change. Ez peezy if you have a barrel vise and action wrench. Having Prefits readily available is a great deal. No more sending your rifle off to have the smith work done.
Now do you need all that stuff to get into Precision / LR shooting? Absolutely not. I’m not gonna be the guy that recommends a newbie but an AI right out the gate. Is a custom build nice? Absolutely. Great features? Yup, and that mainly what you’re paying for in a custom gun. Does it mean that it’s automatically gonna shoot better than your $1000 5R? Nope. Not at all. You don’t need to spend huge $$$$, just don’t buy garbage.
If you got the money, go custom action / build, but it’s not necessary to shoot Precision / LR effectively. Don’t feel you need to. Shoot your 5R. Upgarade barrel later. Put a stock, Chasis , trigger on it when it suits you.
Edit : I’ve gotten 2 Origina on this site for $800 used and my LA Origin for $900 used. If you go that route, I’d recommend grabbing one of their medium length actions. Better setup if you decide to run heavier / longer bullets.
Now if you have the money to spend then yeah, hard to beat an Origin action. Swappable boltheads so you can run anything from 223-Mag with nothing more than a bolt head swap and a barre
Change. Ez peezy if you have a barrel vise and action wrench. Having Prefits readily available is a great deal. No more sending your rifle off to have the smith work done.
Now do you need all that stuff to get into Precision / LR shooting? Absolutely not. I’m not gonna be the guy that recommends a newbie but an AI right out the gate. Is a custom build nice? Absolutely. Great features? Yup, and that mainly what you’re paying for in a custom gun. Does it mean that it’s automatically gonna shoot better than your $1000 5R? Nope. Not at all. You don’t need to spend huge $$$$, just don’t buy garbage.
If you got the money, go custom action / build, but it’s not necessary to shoot Precision / LR effectively. Don’t feel you need to. Shoot your 5R. Upgarade barrel later. Put a stock, Chasis , trigger on it when it suits you.
Edit : I’ve gotten 2 Origina on this site for $800 used and my LA Origin for $900 used. If you go that route, I’d recommend grabbing one of their medium length actions. Better setup if you decide to run heavier / longer bullets.
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I have looked at Tikka, but IIRC they don't have the 700 footprint. That market is a big plus to me, especially of I want to upgrade parts down the line rather than buy new.
lots of possible options available.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/tikka-t3-thread.6252615/
It’s not as big a disparity as it seems. It’s mostly triggers now and that’s because the Tikka trigger is so good from the factory
Have you looked into the Bergaras and Seekins Havoc bolt rifles?
Depends on how much you wanna spend but both are solid choices
Oh yeah, I've looked a LOT at Bergara - I was heavily leaning towards either the Premier HMR Pro or that new Squared Crest.
I've not looked at Seekins - I'll go check them out.
I would want to split my money at about
2,000$ for the gun (including upgrades I want)
3,000$ for the optic.
Your wanting to go guicci on the gun and I get the appeal I really do. But bolt guns are pretty simple and it doesn't take guicci to get a rifle that is going to outshoot you for years to come. By the time you have outgrown that rifle you will also know EXACTLY what you want instead of what you THINK you want.
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The Hide is full of opinions. And all from strangers. Best you can do on a forum is pile up the opinions. As much as I love a quality custom, the top end precision rifles of all manufacturers such as Tikka, Savage, Ruger, and Bergara, shoot sub moa, some half moa. Plenty good for target shooting out to 1,200 yds.
Not that those are a ton cheaper than your custom, but there’s tons available used online already depreciated, ready to shoot. Maybe $1,000-1,500 ready for glass.
6.5 cm is the best choice for what you’re going.
Also, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. We need sub moa precision and reliability. Not quarter moa precision like bench rest or F-class guys. That’s a different game with different rules. They need to shoot and they need to feed from a magazine.
If you shoot a lot and start competing then you’ll know what you need. You can shoot other guys’ rifles to figure out what feels good to you. You have to shoot a lot and move in and out of positions before you’ll really know what you want and need.
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I think you need to get some guns in your hands, if not to shoot, at least to feel them.
Any shops near you? Anything in localish second hand market?
I might have mentioned in this thread, that I would prefer a .308, for my own reasons. I just bought one. I kept an eye on a local(ish) gun sales site and made a list of favorites there. I also browsed a number of gun shop sites. A couple of really local shops had some new rifles that I wanted to try: Tikka CTR, UPR and Tac A1; Sako S20 in different versions; a Howa; and a used Ruger RPR. Oh, a Mauser 18 too. I found that I didn't care for the feel of the all metal rifles, and they were too heavy-feeling for my preference. The "plastic" stocks all had something that didn't feel quite right to me.
A shop located an hour and a half from me had a couple of used rifles that looked interesting. So I went there yesterday morning. As soon as one of those rifles was taken out of the rack, I thought it looked as nice as it did in the photos. Used but well cared for. When I got it in my hands, I was like ... Oooohhh, that feels nice. I handled a couple of other rifles too, but had to come back to that first one. It was also just the right size to carry home in a guitar gig bag....
Any shops near you? Anything in localish second hand market?
I might have mentioned in this thread, that I would prefer a .308, for my own reasons. I just bought one. I kept an eye on a local(ish) gun sales site and made a list of favorites there. I also browsed a number of gun shop sites. A couple of really local shops had some new rifles that I wanted to try: Tikka CTR, UPR and Tac A1; Sako S20 in different versions; a Howa; and a used Ruger RPR. Oh, a Mauser 18 too. I found that I didn't care for the feel of the all metal rifles, and they were too heavy-feeling for my preference. The "plastic" stocks all had something that didn't feel quite right to me.
A shop located an hour and a half from me had a couple of used rifles that looked interesting. So I went there yesterday morning. As soon as one of those rifles was taken out of the rack, I thought it looked as nice as it did in the photos. Used but well cared for. When I got it in my hands, I was like ... Oooohhh, that feels nice. I handled a couple of other rifles too, but had to come back to that first one. It was also just the right size to carry home in a guitar gig bag....
Sounds like if I bought the components it would cost about $500 for my LGS to blueprint and everything.
The big problem is the ships around d don't really have much in the mid-range. It's either the entry sub-1k or some custom jobs by their Smith.
I did handle a custom rifle from their Smith today. Had a Rem 700 action, sleeved, and with a SS Proof barrel in the same stock the Remmington 5-R (HP Precision or something). Had about a 3lb trigger, unsure what kind. Nice rifle, un-threaded. I think it was $3300.
Trying to find a Bergara local, but they're apparently popular and don't stick around very long.
This really doesn’t matter. Most of what you want out of a 700 the Tikka already has. Most of the best chassis have a Tikka inlet.
More importantly, a $1,100 CTR can take a shouldered prefit. No affordable production rifle with a 700 footprint can do that.
There’s no reason to get a Bergara over a Tikka unless you already have a 700 chassis or stock you want to use. If you want to get into customs later, the Tikka will hold its value, a Bergara will not (ask me how I know).
EDIT: just saw you were looking at a Bergara Premier. Great actions, but they WILL NOT hold value if you move on. If you want a Bergara keep it under $1k or keep it for life.
There’s certainly a range of prices. I specifically called out the CTR because it comes with a scope base (although they all have an integral rail that a few companies make rings for), threaded barrel, and the larger bolt knob. It’s everything you could want in a precision rifle that won’t break the bank.
Tikka T3X CTR Bolt Action Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor 24" Threaded Barrel Synthetic Stock Stainless Steel
Tikka T3X CTR Bolt Action Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor 24" Threaded Barrel Synthetic Stock Stainless Steel
shop.wyogun.com
Such as that?
Exactly. That rifle needs nothing but a scope, but you can do just about anything to it. Burn the barrel out and you’re a couple clicks away from a PVA shouldered prefit being mailed to your door. Drop it in any chassis, add a brake or can. $10 trigger spring should get you below a pound if you really want.Tikka T3X CTR Bolt Action Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor 24" Threaded Barrel Synthetic Stock Stainless Steel
Tikka T3X CTR Bolt Action Rifle 6.5 Creedmoor 24" Threaded Barrel Synthetic Stock Stainless Steelshop.wyogun.com
Such as that?
Don’t mistake this as me saying don’t get a custom. I’m sure there’s been countless examples of what you could build for $2k in this thread. Im just saying if you want a factory rifle, there’s one clear choice.
+1
OP you are overthinking this.
Your first rifle is disposable, its a learning tool. Tikka or r700 (a good one) are fine. You don't need a fancy rifle, and a better rifle isn't "buy once cry once" not mattter what anyone tells you. Those 5r 700 308's or Tikka CTR are setup to do exactly what you want.
If you like the Tikka, as mentioned, you can buy $400 bravo and have a custom stock. A "comp trigger" upgrade cost $10. You can buy $600 pva prefit, if you want to keep running it. If you want to buy a $5k rifle in a couple years, the $900 CTR will resell for $5-600 with just the bare action.
You basically get to rent the rifle for 2-3 years, and burn out a barrel, for 2500 rounds at a cost of ... $300. And you can probably get another $100 for the magazine and bottom metal...so its very low risk path to pursue in terms of looking at it that way.
If you do get emotionally attached to the rifle, and don't want to part with it, it will make a great hunting rifle. Light and Xlight barrels are commonly available in the PX for $80-100, and you can re-use the factory stock or buy a hunting stock for the same amount. Again, lots of options.
OP you are overthinking this.
Your first rifle is disposable, its a learning tool. Tikka or r700 (a good one) are fine. You don't need a fancy rifle, and a better rifle isn't "buy once cry once" not mattter what anyone tells you. Those 5r 700 308's or Tikka CTR are setup to do exactly what you want.
If you like the Tikka, as mentioned, you can buy $400 bravo and have a custom stock. A "comp trigger" upgrade cost $10. You can buy $600 pva prefit, if you want to keep running it. If you want to buy a $5k rifle in a couple years, the $900 CTR will resell for $5-600 with just the bare action.
You basically get to rent the rifle for 2-3 years, and burn out a barrel, for 2500 rounds at a cost of ... $300. And you can probably get another $100 for the magazine and bottom metal...so its very low risk path to pursue in terms of looking at it that way.
If you do get emotionally attached to the rifle, and don't want to part with it, it will make a great hunting rifle. Light and Xlight barrels are commonly available in the PX for $80-100, and you can re-use the factory stock or buy a hunting stock for the same amount. Again, lots of options.
I’d second what @ma smith said. I don’t know the exact differences, between them all, but I do know the Super Varmint has an adjustable cheek piece. They’ll all do exactly what you want, just slightly different features. IMO it’s not worth paying more for a fancy stock when you’re likely to swap it.
I wouldn’t have said “disposable” but that’s a good clear way to look at it. OP needs to start shooting and the CTR in 6.5cm would be the perfect way to start. High precision, quality, reliability, and flexibility. With a chassis upgrade and a barrel he might not want dispose of it after all!
Already given my opinion on what to do, but will chime in as devil's advocate re: Tikka. Potential issues, 1. Trigger, while excellent for what it is, it is not as good as a high end 700 trigger, and will not go below ~12oz. 2. Twist rates, depending on cartridge, the stock barrels can be twisted too slowly for the highest BC bullets. 3. Med action COAL - great for SA and Short mags, but LA mags with long projectiles are a no go. 4. Stocks - functional, and easily modded with a dremel to float better, but they're pretty bendy in the forend.
In short, I view Tikka as an excellent budget rifle, to be kept stock. Once you start throwing money at them to change xyz, you shouldacouldawoulda started with a better platform... and I do still have one, wearing a Bartlein with a Ti brake in a Vision chassis, and if the Bix precision trigger ever comes back in stock, I will get one for $495, because why stop now
It's my Finnish Savage.
www.bulletcentral.com
In short, I view Tikka as an excellent budget rifle, to be kept stock. Once you start throwing money at them to change xyz, you shouldacouldawoulda started with a better platform... and I do still have one, wearing a Bartlein with a Ti brake in a Vision chassis, and if the Bix precision trigger ever comes back in stock, I will get one for $495, because why stop now
It's my Finnish Savage.
Bix'n Andy Tikka T3 Precision Trigger - Top Safety - Bullet Central
Low trigger pull for a precise shot Easy installation without modification to your rifle *** Very short lock time Easy external adjustment of sear and trigger weight Compatible in the Tikka T3, Tikka T3x and Tikka T3X Tac A1 Pull Weight: 3 - 38 ounces
www.bulletcentral.com
Different stocks.
I handled both last week. Both can be had in stainless and black. Stainless usually costs more.
The CTR stock is like a traditional hunting stock, but comes with the beefed up "pistol grip" and fore-end inserts. You can get it with a fixed cheek piece or, for a little more, adjustable.
The UPR stock has a vertical "pistol grip" and the fore-end is relatively slim. Much like many McMillan and Manners stocks. I don't care for the stock color but a little paint can fix that. Cheek piece height is adjustable. UPR can be had with 20" or 24" barrels. UPR stock comes with traditional sling mounting studs AND quick release inserts on the left side.
You can get all the details on the Tikka website. There's also a comparison feature there.
Choose your own Tikka rifle from a variety of innovative models
Tikka is able to meet the requirements of modern hunters by combining traditional gunsmith know-how with advanced technology. Choose your own Tikka rifle now!
choose.tikka.fi
I am new to the long range world . I have the same nx8 4-32 you speak of and I traded a friend one of my guns for a sig cross in 6.5 cm. I did buy sphur mounts and Tbac bipod which weren’t cheap but I’m very happy with them . I have steel set up here at home and I am doing well out to 1000 yards . ( after a friend helped me set up my kestrel). While I am considering upgrading , the sig cross has been great to learn on and is about 1500-1700 I believe . I know there are mixed thoughts on here about them but I am very happy with mine. I guess this is over the budget you stated but I figured I would share with you how I got started …
Owning two SIG pistols (227, 229), I really like SIG. I don't like the short barrels on the Cross. I'm looking at 22-24" for the 6.5.
If someone mentions "budget" when speaking about building a rig I automatically know they don't have their priorities straight. The other things that take your money. Stop. Redirect that money to your build.
Well, since you are asking for opinions, I would do the build yourself. You do not need a gunsmith for a prefit barrel. You do not need bedding for a chassis rifle. Get your action and barrel and trigger and chassis and put your rifle together and stop agonizing over this. Then find some local informal matches around you so you can figure out what else you need/want. The other guys will loan you their bags and so on during the match. Plus, you'll make some new friends who are into the same thing.
Oh, and 6.5 Creedmoor
What do you mean? I don't have an optic picked out yet - what I listed that you quoted was a rifle on Gunbroker.
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