April Houston gun show 22LR prices...

[theinvisibleheart]

Pictures from April 6, 7th Pasadena gun show(south Houston metro).


*** you can get a REAL TIME VIEW of 22LR market via the following link ***

gunbot.net/ammo/22lr

Price of 22LR brick/ammo is getting to be like that of typical 401k/403b investments! Typical 401k/403b cost 5-10X the cost of TSP(Thrift Savings Plan), if you include both explicit and implicit cost such as transaction/trading cost.

So if $20 brick of 22LR went for $100, it's 5X the normal price. If it went for $200, it's 10X the normal price. Compared to capital market, 22LR brick are still a bargain and on low end, LOL!

I suspect that this is probably man made, driven by fear mongering in gun/ammo industry and also by various factions in churches/conservative movement.

For example, I heard one folk active in church state that all government is BAD(their words, not mine) and that the government is coming to take away their ammo/22LR/rimfires.

It's commonly said that politicians are self-serving...it appears that industry and many organizations are so too...

A wonderful book covering the same topic is

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay.

I usually tell folks that current shortage is temporary and all you are getting, out of paying high prices right now, is the ability to shoot NOW rather than wait 6 months or 1 year later.

For now, I usually advise folks to use laser targeting system/AIRSOFT/pellet systems.

 

[Big Iron]

Too Much

At that price I wonder if he sold any. I was at a local gun show in Northern Michigan last weekend. About the most anyone was paying for regular HV .22 ammo was $7.00 per 50. Most of the ammo was going for around $5.00 to 6.00 per box of 50. That's still way high. But the local stores have and "0" for three months so it's the old story of supply and demand.

Lock and Load!

 

[komishe]

25c/round for Blazer
What a kick in the nuts.

His Wolf should be marked $250......

I stick with Champ'sChoice for 11c/ They haven't seemed to have any trouble getting it.
Just ordered two cases center-X @ 19c/ from them an hour ago.

 

[clmayfield]

Eley prices for crap rimfire ammo. Nice!

 

[theinvisibleheart]

what's so special about Eley?

 

[VisionPro Shop]

Scored a few bricks for $25 each which is closer to normal range... but you have to look hard!

 

[theinvisibleheart]

$25/brick? Where?!!!

 

[Goin'Hot]

what's so special about Eley?

Consistency. And, they smell good!

Groups go from this...

To this...

 

[theinvisibleheart]

Consistency. And, they smell good!

Groups go from this...

To this...

what's the normal price for Eley vs. Win Super-X target?

 

[Goin'Hot]

Anywhere from $3 / 50 (Sport Solid) up to $19 / 50 (Tenex). The only thing you can do is try a box of it all and hope your gun likes the "cheap" stuff or, figure out how much you want to spend on accuracy...

 

[Kevin70]

Local shops in my area are selling tun of the mill Win, Rem and American Eagle for $49 per 500 rnd brick.

 

[TheGerman]

Cannot wait until the bubble bursts and there's a bunch of wide eyed assholes standing there with ammo they paid a premium for in hopes to resell for more that can't get 30% of what they paid for it.

Can't wait.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

"driven by fear mongering in gun/ammo industry and also by various factions in churches/conservative movement."

WOW!! So this is the nefarious bunch behind all the madness. Thanks for getting to the bottom of the problem and finding a proper stereotype to blame this on. Congrats!

 

[theinvisibleheart]

"driven by fear mongering in gun/ammo industry and also by various factions in churches/conservative movement."

WOW!! So this is the nefarious bunch behind all the madness. Thanks for getting to the bottom of the problem and finding a proper stereotype to blame this on. Congrats!

it's human nature. If one can profit from fear mongering, one tend to engage in it.

At gun show or at gun stores, I rarely hear folks say that the current situation is temporary and you can wait it out by practicing mostly with air gun in 17/22 and via laser targeting system.

I heard couple of folks stocking up on ammo/rimfires/etc. because they thought that all government is bad(their words) and government was coming to take their ammo/rimfires/etc.

 

[woogie_man]

Wow I am sitting on a gold mine if they are selling for those prices!

What is nuts is that people are willing to pay for it at those prices, I mean he has them there for a reason, and if people didn't buy them they wouldn't be that high.


I agree though, should have a picture of him and his company name.

 

[nobiman2]

Pictures from April 6, 7th Pasadena gun show(south Houston metro).

I suspect that this is probably man made, driven by fear mongering in gun/ammo industry and also by various factions in churches/conservative movement.

For example, I heard one folk active in church state that all government is BAD(their words, not mine) and that the government is coming to take away their ammo/22LR/rimfires.

It's commonly said that politicians are self-serving...it appears that industry and many organizations are so too...

A wonderful book covering the same topic is

Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay.

I usually tell folks that current shortage is temporary and all you are getting, out of paying high prices right now, is the ability to shoot NOW rather than wait 6 months or 1 year later.

For now, I usually advise folks to use laser targeting system/AIRSOFT/pellet systems.

At the Tulsa gun show this weekend Alamo Ammo had the same box of Remington .22lr for $209.00. I asked for a business card and when he gladly gave me one I told him
that I would try to find every "No Buy List" I could find and put his business name on it.

 

[BigJimFish]

what's so special about Eley?

Try it, if you can't figure it out you either need a better gun or a lot of practice.

 

[seanh]

getting pissy at some guy that is taking advantage of the market? If some moron wanted to pay you 2-3x what you paid for your house are you saying that you would not sell it to him because "that wouldn't be right?"

More power to the seller...I applaud him for selling to dip shits.

Next time you want to take a pic, take a pic of the stupid fucker who bought the ammo. Post a pic with a caption of "this is what a fucking moron looks like".

 

[Doctorwho1138]

Those are some insane prices. I actually wonder if he sold any. I am down to my last 400 rounds, and can't wait until all this mess clears up but all it does is make me shoot my 40, 9, and 45 more.

 

[THE MGD]

SeanH,
The buyer is indeed the main idiot fueling this, but the seller is equally a jackass for driving up the avg cost. Even more so when I completely ignore the sticker, offer a FAIR price & they scoff like snobs.

 

[Big Iron]

If This Clears Up-------Stock Up!

I always knew this sort of thing could happen. So, I have always kept a stock on hand. Right now, I have about 8K on hand. I didn't buy it all yesterday. It was bought a brick at a time over a number of years. I don't sell ammo, I shoot it. I'll have ammo for this summer and when things calm down, I will replace it.

Now if it doesn't calm down, we will have bigger fish to fry and you will probably need your supply of center fire!


Lock and Load 1

 

[theinvisibleheart]

is that a 50 yard group? Nice group but I've seen groups like that with other target ammo, perhaps not as consistently. You just need to find the specific load that your rimfire likes.

what's the normal price for Eley vs. Win Super-X target?

 

[theinvisibleheart]

I don't think 22LR ammo is a gold mine for the simple fact, there is no barrier to entry regarding production of more 22LR. It's only temporary at best.

As for people willing to pay those prices, have you compared the average cost of TSP(Thrift Savings Plan), probably the best 401k/403b plan, versus average corporate/non-profit 401k/403b plan?

If you include both explicit and implicit cost(e.g., transaction/trading cost), most follks are paying 5-10X as much as they should. To put it in terms of $20 22LR brick, you are paying $100-$200, almost always for performance that is less than cheaper and more cost effective TSP.

Or compare the cost of prescription drug and MRI in US versus Germany, Switzerland, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, etc.

Wow I am sitting on a gold mine if they are selling for those prices!

What is nuts is that people are willing to pay for it at those prices, I mean he has them there for a reason, and if people didn't buy them they wouldn't be that high.


I agree though, should have a picture of him and his company name.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

Yes and no.

I think lot of buying frenzy is driven by fear mongering(fear that ammo, e.g., 22LR, will face permanent shortage/ban/sharply curtailed availability/etc.), esp. by those in the industry and those who stand to profit from it.

I think all of us are subject to it, since it's an emotional/behavioral bias.

It's not limited to guns/ammo. Check meta-analysis papers regarding low back surgery. Data indicates there is virtually no difference regarding long term outcome b/w those who have had back surgery and those who didn't, yet back surgery is on rise.

Or pension funds and retirees being sold subprime mortgages as being appropriate investments for those on limited fixed income before the 2007/2008 financial crisis.

SeanH,
The buyer is indeed the main idiot fueling this, but the seller is equally a jackass for driving up the avg cost. Even more so when I completely ignore the sticker, offer a FAIR price & they scoff like snobs.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

I think 500 rounds of 9, 40 or 45 will exceed the cost of 22LR brick, even at these inflated prices.

The only practical alternative is air gun and laser targeting system.

Those are some insane prices. I actually wonder if he sold any. I am down to my last 400 rounds, and can't wait until all this mess clears up but all it does is make me shoot my 40, 9, and 45 more.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

I don't know if you have access to Gun Tests(you need subscription) but they tested Eley versus bunch of other ammo here:

July, 96 Pricey

They tested large number of match loads in 3 match guns.

Basically, they found out that the driving factor was the specific combination of ammo and shooting platform, not one brand of ammo maker.

Try it, if you can't figure it out you either need a better gun or a lot of practice.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

people were buying.

Loose lot of 50 rounds of 223/556 in bag was going for above $100...

At that price I wonder if he sold any. I was at a local gun show in Northern Michigan last weekend. About the most anyone was paying for regular HV .22 ammo was $7.00 per 50. Most of the ammo was going for around $5.00 to 6.00 per box of 50. That's still way high. But the local stores have and "0" for three months so it's the old story of supply and demand.

Lock and Load!

 

[Short-bus]

Went by Wally world after dropping my girls off at school and picked up 3 - 225ct boxes of golden bullets at $9.97 a box. Going to start running by there and Dicks and getting anything I can. I don't need much more, just a little more bulk stuff for the pistol, but i'm sure I have plenty of friends that are in need and don't have the luxury that I do of being able to run by every morning. I'll buy up whatever and sell it to them for whatever I paid for it.

All us gun owners need to be stickin' together and helpin' each other out in anyway we can, not profiting off of the craze. That's just my opinion, but it would be nice to see us all band together. We'd be a very, very powerful force if we all just stuck together like glue and fought gun control as a single, very massive, unit.

Branden

 

[nesikabay]

what's so special about Eley?

Shoot some and you will know. It is the best 22 ammo there is

 

[theinvisibleheart]

it actually depends on the platform(host rifle/pistol) when GT(Gun Tests) tested it. Eley did not consistently come out on top. Quite often, other brands did better.

Shoot some and you will know. It is the best 22 ammo there is

 

[George Az]

I just don't see it coming to an end. I remember the last ban on magazines when G-17 mags were $90.00. Ammo was plentiful then. But now that the prices have driven up the manu's will follow suit with a raise prices - as they know people are willing to pay. Case in point; I know a father who used to shoot 2-300 rounds on the weekend with his boys. Pretty regular shooter, his weekend was stop at the store, each boy gets a soda, they buy one of the cartons for the old price of $16.99 and go have fun. For the last three months -NO fun. Now when he gets the opportunity, good father will buy thousands for the future. Not at $125 but at $35.00 still no problem. On top of thousands of people in the same predicament, we have the profitters. The with possibilty of ammunition control and the tax man coming, because it is going to get taxed more, the prices will be higher than the Nov 2012 pricing. I know they are running the machines 24/7, but there is no end to the hoarding either.

Sorry, I am the stick in the mud that doesn't see it getting better. Maybe by 2014.

 

[John L]

getting pissy at some guy that is taking advantage of the market? If some moron wanted to pay you 2-3x what you paid for your house are you saying that you would not sell it to him because "that wouldn't be right?"

More power to the seller...I applaud him for selling to dip shits.

Next time you want to take a pic, take a pic of the stupid fucker who bought the ammo. Post a pic with a caption of "this is what a fucking moron looks like".

Spot on^^^^^

 

[Goin'Hot]

is that a 50 yard group? Nice group but I've seen groups like that with other target ammo, perhaps not as consistently. You just need to find the specific load that your rimfire likes.

Yep 50 yards.

 

[BigJimFish]

I don't know if you have access to Gun Tests(you need subscription) but they tested Eley versus bunch of other ammo here:

July, 96 Pricey

They tested large number of match loads in 3 match guns.

Basically, they found out that the driving factor was the specific combination of ammo and shooting platform, not one brand of ammo maker.

I have read that many a place and perhaps someday I will have a rifle that doesn't like Eley with the EPS bullet best but at this point my rifles are all of one mind. Well, they are of one mind when it comes to Eley, they don't agree on Wolf worth a damn.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

they tested 33 target ammo in 3 guns, with 3 5-shot group size as small as .2 inch at 50 yards.

Eley did well. It's just that other match ammo did better.

I have read that many a place and perhaps someday I will have a rifle that doesn't like Eley with the EPS bullet best but at this point my rifles are all of one mind. Well, they are of one mind when it comes to Eley, they don't agree on Wolf worth a damn.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

I think paying $500 or $5,000 or $50,000 for a brick is OK but I think lot of the buyers are buying it under the assumption that ammo restriction/ban is coming.

Odds of that happening is as close to zero as possible.

Spot on^^^^^

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Dude. What is your beef? Can't keep your store stocked? The only thing you have posted for almost a year besides this piece of garbage, that frankly offers nothing beyond accusing "church people" and "conservatives" of creating this mess, is a long string of classified ads. The people truly responsible for the mess are those that have incited fear, and quite frankly sir that has come from those who have used tragedy to enact and attempt to enact, every whim of their imagination into law. I will put nothing past those in power, so I would like to catch a peek into that crystal ball you seem to be viewing when you insist that ammunition will not be regulated. I think the run on ammo is ludicrous myself but I understand WHY people are buying what they can. This has all been covered in the countless threads that already exist on the Hide, bemoaning our situation. Give it a rest. Ammo is not the only thing people are buying with their ever dwindling in value paper money. Our crisis is not confined to the "industry". People are waking up and that is a good thing, although it can have unintended consequences. I am still wondering how and in what way your thread is helpful. All one has to do is dig up your posts to get an idea of what drives you sir.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

Dude. What is your beef? Can't keep your store stocked?

The only thing you have posted for almost a year besides this piece of garbage, that frankly offers nothing beyond accusing "church people" and "conservatives" of creating this mess, is a long string of classified ads.

The people truly responsible for the mess are those that have incited fear, and quite frankly sir that has come from those who have used tragedy to enact and attempt to enact, every whim of their imagination into law.

I will put nothing past those in power, so I would like to catch a peek into that crystal ball you seem to be viewing when you insist that ammunition will not be regulated.

I think the run on ammo is ludicrous myself but I understand WHY people are buying what they can.

This has all been covered in the countless threads that already exist on the Hide, bemoaning our situation. Give it a rest. Ammo is not the only thing people are buying with their ever dwindling in value paper money. Our crisis is not confined to the "industry". People are waking up and that is a good thing, although it can have unintended consequences. I am still wondering how and in what way your thread is helpful. All one has to do is dig up your posts to get an idea of what drives you sir.

Thank you pointing out that these posts are 'For Sale' posts.

lower back pain, any suggestions? post #104

lower back pain, any suggestions? post #105

Or that the research link I posted was one: NCBI: Surgery for low back pain: a review of literature, Spine

Now that I reread it again, it's clear that it's a for sale post.

QUOTE:>>>
Surgery for low back pain: a review of the evidence for an American Pain Society Clinical Practice Guideline.
Chou R, Baisden J, Carragee EJ, Resnick DK, Shaffer WO, Loeser JD.


- patients on average experience improvement either with or without surgery, and benefits associated with surgery decrease with long-term follow-up in some trials.
- insufficient evidence exists to judge long-term benefits or harms.
- for nonradicular back pain with common degenerative changes, fusion is no more effective than intensive rehabilitation, but associated with small to moderate benefits compared to standard nonsurgical therapy.
<<<

Anybody who can read can clearly see it to be so. I apologize for my lack of literacy.



I appreciate your attempt at edification. Thank you. You are truly a man of extraordinary erudition as demonstrated by your scholarly post.

Perhaps you are a professor of hoplology at Harvard or Oxford?

Seeing that you are a man of perspicacity, perhaps you can inform the rest of the board where in the US is there a ban on sale of 22LR ammo? And when will there be a ban of sale of 22LR ammo in rest of US?

Thank you.

I appreciate your help at trying to help an ignorant country bumpkin.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

The people truly responsible for the mess are those that have incited fear, and quite frankly sir that has come from those who have used tragedy to enact and attempt to enact, every whim of their imagination into law.

Also, perhaps you can educate us regarding the following misleading FOX News article?

Fox News article link

Stockpiling has also been fueled by false online rumors, such as one that purports a coming nickel tax on each bullet, which would triple the cost of a .22-caliber cartridge, said Hans Farnung, president of Beikirch's Ammunition, a retailer and wholesaler in Rochester, N.Y., that sells in seven states.

"I don't want to call them doomsdayers, but people get on these blogs on the Internet and they drive people's fears. They do not want to wait around and see."

 

[theinvisibleheart]

Dude. What is your beef? Can't keep your store stocked?

If I'm selling 22LR from a store, wouldn't I stand to benefit MORE by driving UP fears regarding coming ban/restriction on 22LR?

 

[Rolltide]

I'm with 'chicken on this. It seems that the more this is talked about, the worse it gets. I stopped by Wal-Mart yesterday to grab some batteries and ran into a guy I used to shoot with. When I asked what he had been into, he mentioned that he saw a Wal-Mart truck pulling in the parking lot earlier and he was waiting to see if they were going to put out any ammo that might be on the truck.

I laughed and he looked at me like I was an idiot! I followed him to sporting goods and there were over 20 guys who were all waiting around to see if they had any ammo to stock! I just shook my head and started walking away. A lady that works there was also walking town the same aisle. She said that a lot of those guys are in there every day and will stand around the sporting goods counter for 2 or 3 hours!

Chris

 

[theinvisibleheart]

I just tell folks that it's only temporary and all that is gained by buying now is the ability to shoot now rather than wait 6 or next year down the road.

I recall folks saying similar thing in 2008/2009 frenzy. That they've never seen anything like it.

On a similar note, I recall similar things in financial market.

If you think price of 22LR brick is 'insane,' check total investment cost in your 401k/403b and compare it against Thrift Savings Plan or compare healthcare bill. E.g., cost of MRI in US versus Switzerland/Finland/Japan/Singapore/Taiwan/etc.

 

[NorthEastWinter]

just bought 4 boxes of 525 round Remington golden bullets for 19.99/brick at dunhams. right place, right time

 

[shaman]

M-22 1000 round boxes are $46 plus tax at Academy if you show up before 3 AM. Selling in Cedar Park at the gun show from $150-240 plus tax. Lady that drives around to walmarts all day said she made $1600 gross at just that gun show.

 

[kihnspiracy]

I saw a post of a guy at his local gunshow that had Remmington 525rd packs for $150 each. He had pics of them. Said they were selling at that price.

 

[Rolltide]

That's crazy, stupid to pay those prices...

Chris

 

[Rolltide]

I am curious though if some people are using the stupidity to unload some crap ammo that they bought in the past. This past weekend we were out shooting and I wanted to shoot up some Winchester Xpert that I bought several years ago. I found it in put away in a storage closet and thought it might be decent. We couldn't get through a 10rd magazine without at least one misfire. We finally stopped trying after about 5 mags and put it away. A friend who was there suggested that all that I have left and replace it with some SK or Wolf from Champion or one of the other sites. I plan to give it to a friend's son, but I hate to stick him with this crap which is below average at best.

Thoughts?

Chris

 

[TheGerman]

I am curious though if some people are using the stupidity to unload some crap ammo that they bought in the past. This past weekend we were out shooting and I wanted to shoot up some Winchester Xpert that I bought several years ago. I found it in put away in a storage closet and thought it might be decent. We couldn't get through a 10rd magazine without at least one misfire. We finally stopped trying after about 5 mags and put it away. A friend who was there suggested that all that I have left and replace it with some SK or Wolf from Champion or one of the other sites. I plan to give it to a friend's son, but I hate to stick him with this crap which is below average at best.

Thoughts?

Chris

It's free. If you tell him the issues you had upfront, who cares. For all you know it'll shoot fine in his 22.

 

[theinvisibleheart]

My understanding is that frequency of problem ammo is increasing, both with old and new ammo.

At gun show, I saw very old 7.62x39 ammo for sale that was marked corrosive.

Winchester issued a recall with new 223 ammo lot.

These things happen most probably because ammo production is at record level, 24/7.

Old ammo are probably starting to show up in commercial sale due to overall scarcity.

I am curious though if some people are using the stupidity to unload some crap ammo that they bought in the past. This past weekend we were out shooting and I wanted to shoot up some Winchester Xpert that I bought several years ago. I found it in put away in a storage closet and thought it might be decent. We couldn't get through a 10rd magazine without at least one misfire. We finally stopped trying after about 5 mags and put it away. A friend who was there suggested that all that I have left and replace it with some SK or Wolf from Champion or one of the other sites. I plan to give it to a friend's son, but I hate to stick him with this crap which is below average at best.

Thoughts?

Chris

 

[theinvisibleheart]

you mean there is a line starting at 3 a.m.? I don't think Academy opens before 8 a.m.

M-22 1000 round boxes are $46 plus tax at Academy if you show up before 3 AM. Selling in Cedar Park at the gun show from $150-240 plus tax. Lady that drives around to walmarts all day said she made $1600 gross at just that gun show.