AR-10 Precision Rifle Shopping - Need Some Input & Advice

[pittfurg]

Hey everyone,

Extremely long-time lurker here, and I've been browsing this forum for a while now in my quest for my next precision rifle. I have been a bolt gun enjoyer for the past 15 or so years, mostly in 30 caliber rounds (308 and in the past couple of years, 300 PRC) and some built-out rimfire stuff.

And now, for my next purchase I'm looking for a long-range semi-automatic rifle. And yes, I know there are plenty of threads about this very topic and I've absorbed the more recent-ish ones (since the market is always changing and evolving and innovating, and new companies show up and certain manufacturers go in and out of favor).

But rather than approaching this as "which one is best" I want to do something a little different: I'm going to list out what my short list is, given my requirements, and basically ask the question: are any of these objectively BAD choices? And let's define bad as: unreliable, hard to service and/or keep clean, hard to properly suppress, or requires a lot of additional work out of the box to enjoy with my requirements or wishes.

So, about those requirements, here's the list of things that I consider to be "table stakes" for this purchase (in no particular order of importance):

• Being able to enjoy the rifle at ranges varying from 400 - 800 yards on steel; anything beyond that range would be a huge bonus since the friends I shoot with frequently go out to longer distances at ranges (or private land) with our bolt guns. And granted, I know we're talking about two very different platforms here, but I feel my current ARs in 5.56 or my National Match M1A on open sights can already handle the 100 - 400 ranges. Small groups at 100-200 yards nice, but I'm mostly just interested in consistent performance at raneg on 12- or 18-inch steel targets.
• Being able to suppress out of the box. I'll be completely honest, I'm not a gunsmith; the most work I've ever done to my current rifles is replacing a muzzle device or some of the easier to change furniture, like stocks, grips, and such. I've never work on a gas system or replaced a barrel, so I don't have the tooling to, say, put on adjustable gas block or re-barrell something. Or maybe I do, but mostly, I worry about damaging the rifle or reducing its accuracy or performance since I've never done it. And yes, I can absolutely enlist the services of an armorer or gunsmith, but I'm really striving for out-of-the-box as much as possible. Therefore, any rifle with an adjustable gas system that comes standard is what I'd like to try to buy.
• Longer barrels are preferred, if nothing else just to eke out as much velocity as possible for those longer ranges. I'm not a physicist but my understanding is that the difference between 16-, 18-, 20-, or 22-inch barrels can add several hundred feet per second of velocity (conditions permitting, of course). I don't have any illusions of carrying this rifle for anything up close (I have other rifles for that), but being able to shoot sitting, or from prone, is probably what this rifle is destined to do (or from props, if I decide to run it for something else). See above about replacing or upgrading a barrel.
• As for calibers, I'm thinking just your standard .308 since I'm already "in the lifestyle" thanks to one of my bolt guns, even though every time I get a new gun, I go on a quest to find the best performing ammunition for that platform. I'm not averse to also exploring something like 6.5 Creedmore.
• This isn't a race to the bottom on price; I know this is going to be an expensive endeavor, and I know there is probably money to be saved by building my own. But again, I'm looking to save some time and get something turn-key and provide light updates to fit the rifle more to me.
• It's also worth mentioning: I don't hand load. Again, it's mostly a question of time and money right now, and most of my trips to the range are on factory ammo. I know that, ultimately, I will probalby end up there but right now, I seem to have had good luck with match-grade ammo for my other guns, so I'd like to keep doing that here.

So, with that in mind, here is what I've narrowed my choices down to:

• Seekins Precision SP-10. I first ran across these rifles the last time I visited Euro Optic's warehouse out in Pennsylvania, and I see they get a fair amount of respect here. They tick all the boxes mentioned above, I think. I've been trying to find some posts or videos people suppressing them and how to adjust the gas block, since I've never had an adjustable gas block on an AR-pattern gas system.
• LWRC REPR MKII. I've always eyed LWRC's with an envious eye for a number of years, but they've always been just a touch out of reach due to timing in my life. But now that I'm older and a little more financially stable, I wanted to make sure I gave them a shake here. There's a lot to like here, with a easily adjustable gas system, good fit and finish with a lot of upgrades that I'd probably want to do after the fact (like the PRS stock, upgraded trigger system, etc). I don't see a lot of love for them here, at least recently, so I'm not really sure why. The other thing that makes me a little leery is that they don't seem to embrace things like MLOK; it looks like for things like Arca rails or bipods, you need to screw in some rails to the bottom.
• JP LRP-07. Wasn't originally on this list so it's a late add courtesy of people informing me about it. They look like a strong contender, with either some availability on sites like EuroOptic or it looks like I can have one custom built as well.
• GA Precision GAP-10 G2. Similar to the REPR above, there's a lot to like here out of the box, like the adjustable block, and I think the handguard is a better system. The biggest question is lead time since these are built to order, but I'm not really in a rush.
• American Defense UIC-10A. Similar to the Seekins, and I see that they get a lot of praise here too. They appear to be built to order as well and can provide things like from-the-factory muzzle devices to fit some of the more popular suppressors.

And for additional transparency, here are some others that were considered but I'm ruling out, and why:

• FN SCAR 20S: After putting a lot of time and effort and energy and money and research into suppressing my 16S, I really don't want to go through that again. I really like FN, don't get me wrong. But given the price and what else I'd have to do to get it to run comfortably suppressed without the whole "void your warranty" discussion/debate, I'm going to pass on it.
• HK 716: I just wish the barrel was longer! I think there's also some FUD out there around suppressing these and frankly, for the money these are going for right now, some of the other rifles on the above list (and this list) offer a heck of a lot more.
• LMT MARS-H DMR: I really wanted to put this on the short list, but from what I can tell it doesn't come with an adjustable gas block, and I'm unclear on how well it performs suppressed. They look like a phenomenal gun.
• KAC SR-25: Mostly just due to the current market and availability. I know I said this wasn't a race to the bottom on price, but I feel like I sit more in the "crazy not stupid" section when it comes to the investment I'm about to make.
• Armalite: I just don't know enough; there's a lot out there but nothing I've found that is "prescriptive" and it seems like to meet my requirements list, some work needs to get done. I'm interesting hearing more about them though.

So yeah, after weeks of agonizing research here and other places, this is where I've landed. So as stated originally: are any of those choices objectively bad? Are there other factors for those mentioned above I'm overlooking.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Wizard1183]

They’re all good. Pick one. They’re all more accurate than you are…

 

[jh2785]

Also check out Wilson Combat’s line of large frame ar’s

 

[diggler1833]

Hard to go wrong with the Seekins as it checks all of the boxes you're after.

 

[pittfurg]

Hard to go wrong with the Seekins as it checks all of the boxes you're after.

I am with you. I definitely think that I'm leaning towards that or the LWRC, and it's hard to argue with the price tag between the two. The other thing I like about the Seekins, specifically the 6.5, is it appears it's just a threaded barrel, no muzzle device, so I can either direct thread a suppressor or put on a device I like, which saves me some time.

This might be a dumb question for you (or anyone else here), but how much of a pain is it to adjust a gas system like that? I've just never done it; the closest I have today are selectors like my SCARberator.

 

[sinister]

Like any other rifle system, factory-made isn't going to compare to a custom build. Seekins and GAP are closer to small-shop assembled guns vice big factory production turning out dozens to hundreds per day.

What's your budget and (as you mentioned) what's your patience limit if having one built?

There are several good upper-lower receiver sets available now as opposed to ten or twenty years ago (some sets are between $200-400). A number of companies (Krieger, Lothar-Walther, Lilja, Proof Research, etc.) also turn out quality precision match barrels much better than mass-produced rifled tubes.

You have a very good selection of adjustable gas blocks available as well as heavy buffers.

Random examples:

Stag Arms blem receiver sets, $200:

Diamondback (stripped) DB-10 sets, around $200:

 

[Edsel]

I definitely think that I'm leaning towards that or the LWRC…

It’s difficult to deal with them if your rifle’s shooting pie - sized groups.

“Rifle’s in spec.”

 

[Edsel]

Some AR-10s showcased.

For fun.

 

[pittfurg]

It’s difficult to deal with them if your rifle’s shooting pie - sized groups.

“Rifle’s in spec.”

Sorry, I know things get lost in context sometimes, but is this a commentary on the quality of the rifle, or the quality of customer support if there's a problem?

 

[pittfurg]

Like any other rifle system, factory-made isn't going to compare to a custom build. Seekins and GAP are closer to small-shop assembled guns vice big factory production turning out dozens to hundreds per day.

I appreciate all of this advice, but like I said, not really looking to build for this. I'd like to try to get something out-of-the-box, but with an eye towards quality. I agree sourcing the parts and building it myself is probably going to produce a more bespoke build, but the sad reality is that I doubt my ability to build it to spec the way a manufacturer does. I'll always wonder if I "did it right."

 

[smarcus]

I have an SR25 and have built multiple 6.5 and 6mm. CM AR’s. Given your initial post I recommend the Seekins with the longest barrel in 308. If you want to try a 6.5 CM, great but if not that’s fine too. The seekins. Are very accurate, solid shooting rifles from an excellent company. All at a reasonable price.

 

[smarcus]

I just checked seekins website. Looks like the only 308 is 18inch. I would get the 6.5 22 inch.

 

[sparky702]

Well I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at a seekins. That would be a solid rifle for sure . I have an armalite tactical 6.5 creedmoor with a 22 inch barrel . I think you are stressing way to much about the adjustable gas block it's very easy to adjust , It took me every bit of 10 minutes to get it right . I run it in DMR matches this past summer and I have been very pleased . I run hornady American gunner 140 grain boat tail hollow point's factory ammo. The rifle has run flawless and I actually showed improvement over the course of the season . we don't shoot on a square flat range it is up the hill , down the hill and across the valley . I did not have one single malfunction over the course of the spring and summer .The rifle will hold 1 moa easy enough which will be sufficient for most matches like that. feel free to ask if you have more questions . I will say my initial purchase was because I was hunting for a 6.5 creed gas gun and thinking about the ruger sfar in that caliber , but I ran across a sale on the armalite for the same money , so it was a no brainer .

 

[pittfurg]

Well I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at a seekins. That would be a solid rifle for sure . I have an armalite tactical 6.5 creedmoor with a 22 inch barrel . I think you are stressing way to much about the adjustable gas block it's very easy to adjust , It took me every bit of 10 minutes to get it right . I run it in DMR matches this past summer and I have been very pleased . I run hornady American gunner 140 grain boat tail hollow point's factory ammo. The rifle has run flawless and I actually showed improvement over the course of the season . we don't shoot on a square flat range it is up the hill , down the hill and across the valley . I did not have one single malfunction over the course of the spring and summer .The rifle will hold 1 moa easy enough which will be sufficient for most matches like that. feel free to ask if you have more questions . I will say my initial purchase was because I was hunting for a 6.5 creed gas gun and thinking about the ruger sfar in that caliber , but I ran across a sale on the armalite for the same money , so it was a no brainer .

Thanks for this! I would love to ask you some questions about the Armalite you have; they didn't make my initial list but I'm certainly looking at them now. Anything else that you think from my initial requirements that may make a good fit? Or is it more like LMT where there's no adjustable gas block on them from the factory?

 

[Krob95]

Seekins, GAP, JP. Any of those 3 in 6.5cm will be money.

 

[kthomas]

I appreciate all of this advice, but like I said, not really looking to build for this. I'd like to try to get something out-of-the-box, but with an eye towards quality. I agree sourcing the parts and building it myself is probably going to produce a more bespoke build, but the sad reality is that I doubt my ability to build it to spec the way a manufacturer does. I'll always wonder if I "did it right."

You could always have a company like Craddock assemble it for you.

Pair it with one of their Bartlein barrels.

 

[sparky702]

Thanks for this! I would love to ask you some questions about the Armalite you have; they didn't make my initial list but I'm certainly looking at them now. Anything else that you think from my initial requirements that may make a good fit? Or is it more like LMT where there's no adjustable gas block on them from the factory?

I have the model with the tactical label . Im not sure what makes it tactical .It does have an adjustable gas block from the factory . It also comes with back up sight's .I use durra-mag's . here is a pic of thee model I have .

 

[nickw]

Strongly recommend JP (have one-love it), GAP (we had one at work that was suppressed, very nice), and Craddock (have a .223 upper he did for me with a Bartlein bbl. = hammer). The easy button is a JP LRP07 out of the box. Usually available in stores or on their web site. Amazing build quality and customer service. They love the Federal tipped SMK factory load. Easy peezy out to 800. If you decide to load, the 169gr SMK is really nice out to 1000. It’s what I run in mine.

 

[pittfurg]

Wow, you know, I'm not sure how I didn't know about JP sooner; they should definitely be on my list as it looks like it ticks the boxes as well. I'll start looking into those. I'll amend my original post to put them in the running.

In researching them so far, what I can't tell is what the different handguard options are; it looks like they do something bespoke to their rifle handguards, and I'm clear if the 12/3/6/9 positions are... MLOK? Or do you have to add rail sections like the LWRC handguards? It also appears some builds that are out there and available to purchase have full-length rails at the 12, while some only have them on the receiver, and not the handguard. The build options appear to be a really intimidating list of options too.

The other thing I'm wondering, and it's not because I'm dead set on getting one, it's more of a curiosity: why no love for piston guns like POF or LWRC for this use case? Or are they just not as good as I assumed they were once?

 

[XP1K]

If you're considering a piston gun, don't overlook PWS. I had a 16" 308 and it was a shooter. I sold it because I got a deal on an LMT. I really struggled with selling the PWS because it shot so well, but the LMT has impressed me so far.

 

[freedom71]

 

[P47rr]

I own a LWRC Repr. It’s a great gun. Heavy. I also own a Armalite Tac 14.5 rifle as well. Could not pass up the deal Palmetto has on them. Both are in 308 Winchester. Sold one years ago. And all ways regretted it. Next I think will be a Type A rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor with the 14.5 barrel. FDE color.

 

[isakhnov]

I struggled for years with the self built AR10s. Recently, got the Harbinger upper (20 308) from VSeven that took some effort to mate with the MEGA lower from a prior build. The outcomes, repeatable 3/4 moa groups with five shots at 200 yards, where I regularly screw one or two shots from what would have been 1/2 moa group otherwise. Huge fan of VSeven.