I have been around the M16 and AR platform for sometime. I have seen my share of problems with them and also broken parts. Here is one that looks BAD.
AR Malfunction
AR Malfunction
AR Malfunction
- Thread starter SFC Carpentier jr
- Start date
Re: AR Malfunction
Look carefully at the two cartridges at the top of the magazine stack . They appear to be punctured at the shoulder but the holes appear to be punched from the outside of the cartridge inward. That could be from the bolt carrier splitting. It's hard to tell if the powder in those burned. Maybe they're just dents. It would be interesting to know what cartridges in the magazine still have powder and live primers.
I'll take a guess at what happened. I'd like to hear other explanations. He said he fired six shots "which made a fine group" (4L4D small target) but I only see five holes in that corner target. Where did the sixth bullet go? He may find the sixth and the seventh bullet in the bore or both could have been blown out. But together they would have been unlikely to hit the target.
Since the barrel extension is split and the bolt is tilted that had to be from extreme chamber pressure. Extreme pressure could come from a powder detonation or from a plugged barrel. The way he could have gotten a plugged barrel is if the previous shot just had a primer and left the bullet plugging the throat. He would have had to cycle in the next round manually to shoot the seventh shot. He didn't mention that except for saying he decided to "fire one more round"
The cartrdidges look like 223. He said "my loads are good" so they must be handloads though he did not say what the load was. The possibility of a detonation is an unknown but I'd bet on the bullet stuck in the throat as the explanation.
The guy is lucky he wasn't injured. If it was my rifle I'd keep it as a wall hanger and a reminder. Not much there is worth salvaging. The scope may be ok. If it is Vortex should use the video for advertising.
Look carefully at the two cartridges at the top of the magazine stack . They appear to be punctured at the shoulder but the holes appear to be punched from the outside of the cartridge inward. That could be from the bolt carrier splitting. It's hard to tell if the powder in those burned. Maybe they're just dents. It would be interesting to know what cartridges in the magazine still have powder and live primers.
I'll take a guess at what happened. I'd like to hear other explanations. He said he fired six shots "which made a fine group" (4L4D small target) but I only see five holes in that corner target. Where did the sixth bullet go? He may find the sixth and the seventh bullet in the bore or both could have been blown out. But together they would have been unlikely to hit the target.
Since the barrel extension is split and the bolt is tilted that had to be from extreme chamber pressure. Extreme pressure could come from a powder detonation or from a plugged barrel. The way he could have gotten a plugged barrel is if the previous shot just had a primer and left the bullet plugging the throat. He would have had to cycle in the next round manually to shoot the seventh shot. He didn't mention that except for saying he decided to "fire one more round"
The cartrdidges look like 223. He said "my loads are good" so they must be handloads though he did not say what the load was. The possibility of a detonation is an unknown but I'd bet on the bullet stuck in the throat as the explanation.
The guy is lucky he wasn't injured. If it was my rifle I'd keep it as a wall hanger and a reminder. Not much there is worth salvaging. The scope may be ok. If it is Vortex should use the video for advertising.
Re: AR Malfunction
I think you're probably right. If something feels funny when you shoot a round check you gun before firing again!
I don't care how careful and organized i am on the loading bench i always look into the case and check that there is powder there before seating a bullet. Every single time.
Slow is smooth - smooth is fast definitely applies to reloading!
I think you're probably right. If something feels funny when you shoot a round check you gun before firing again!
I don't care how careful and organized i am on the loading bench i always look into the case and check that there is powder there before seating a bullet. Every single time.
Slow is smooth - smooth is fast definitely applies to reloading!
Re: AR Malfunction
wow! Ive never seen that before! I think your right Lou, about the bullet stuck in barrel. That can sure ruin your day!
wow! Ive never seen that before! I think your right Lou, about the bullet stuck in barrel. That can sure ruin your day!
Re: AR Malfunction
My money is on a case failure. A squib would have done much more damage to the barrel and handguard.
My money is on a case failure. A squib would have done much more damage to the barrel and handguard.
Re: AR Malfunction
That is an ammo malfunction. Not a weapon problem.
Got to be careful when shooting reloads. I had a squib round on my .45 once yet still had the presence of mind to know that the last round fired didn't sound quite right. So I unload, check the barrel and sure enough a round is lodged in it.
Can you say not cool if I'd pressed the trigger again.
This is also why we wear eye pro.
That is an ammo malfunction. Not a weapon problem.
Got to be careful when shooting reloads. I had a squib round on my .45 once yet still had the presence of mind to know that the last round fired didn't sound quite right. So I unload, check the barrel and sure enough a round is lodged in it.
Can you say not cool if I'd pressed the trigger again.
This is also why we wear eye pro.
Re: AR Malfunction
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My money is on a case failure. A squib would have done much more damage to the barrel and handguard.</div></div>
The squib load only needed to plug the barrel close to the throat. The shot following it is what I think caused the blow up. Pushing two 55 grain bullets would result in a chamber pressure of around 95,000 psi if both bullets engraved normally , but the second bullet would probably have obturated in the throat causing higher pressure than that.
No doubt the seventh case did fail in the process of damaging the barrel extension and bolt like that, but a simple case failure from a normal shot with one bullet wouldn't cause that much damage. A 223 Rem case filled with VV N310 or Alliant Bullseye with a normal bullet would do that kind of damage. That would be hard to explain other than by malicious intent.
It would be helpful if people who have this sort of blowup posted data on what the load was suppose to be.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: m_gale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My money is on a case failure. A squib would have done much more damage to the barrel and handguard.</div></div>
The squib load only needed to plug the barrel close to the throat. The shot following it is what I think caused the blow up. Pushing two 55 grain bullets would result in a chamber pressure of around 95,000 psi if both bullets engraved normally , but the second bullet would probably have obturated in the throat causing higher pressure than that.
No doubt the seventh case did fail in the process of damaging the barrel extension and bolt like that, but a simple case failure from a normal shot with one bullet wouldn't cause that much damage. A 223 Rem case filled with VV N310 or Alliant Bullseye with a normal bullet would do that kind of damage. That would be hard to explain other than by malicious intent.
It would be helpful if people who have this sort of blowup posted data on what the load was suppose to be.
Re: AR Malfunction
Definitly an ammo issue I have seen a few squib rounds, and this is a textbook squib that didn't make it into the barrel far enough to blow it up. Looking for a replacement rifle for free is the wrong answer, and I am willing to put money on a projectile being lodged somehwere in the barrel very clost to the throat.
Definitly an ammo issue I have seen a few squib rounds, and this is a textbook squib that didn't make it into the barrel far enough to blow it up. Looking for a replacement rifle for free is the wrong answer, and I am willing to put money on a projectile being lodged somehwere in the barrel very clost to the throat.
Re: AR Malfunction
I really hate to admit this and have it recorded on this forum forever, but I will. In my early reloading days I did indeed accidentally load up a few squib rounds and ended up shooting them.
First of all, the recoil and sound are so substantially different there is no way any reasonable person wouldn't notice.
Secondly, in my experiences, the primer alone is no where near strong enough to bury the projectile in the barrel. The projectile basically hit the lands of the rifling and stops. Every single time this actually prevented the next round from chambering. So even if I hadn't stopped firing due to the unnatural recoil and sound characteristics, I was also physically stopped from shooting due to being unable to chamber a round.
I do suppose a primer plus a weak charge of powder would be enough to bury a bullet in the barrel. I have personally observed someone at the range shoot an underpowered round that lodged in middle of the barrel. Despite the weird pop sound, the shooter kept firing round after round before the RO could stop him. So even though I say no reasonable person would keep shooting with such a different sound and recoil, this guy is the exception.
It was a Ruger Camp 9 and by the time the RO had stopped him, the barrel was bulged quite nicely in the middle. He had the range gunsmith open up the barrel and found 9 bullets lodged in there. That is a person who should give up reloading. I can only hope he doesn't reload rifle rounds and I REALLY hope he doesn't use his reloads in bullpups.
I really hate to admit this and have it recorded on this forum forever, but I will. In my early reloading days I did indeed accidentally load up a few squib rounds and ended up shooting them.
First of all, the recoil and sound are so substantially different there is no way any reasonable person wouldn't notice.
Secondly, in my experiences, the primer alone is no where near strong enough to bury the projectile in the barrel. The projectile basically hit the lands of the rifling and stops. Every single time this actually prevented the next round from chambering. So even if I hadn't stopped firing due to the unnatural recoil and sound characteristics, I was also physically stopped from shooting due to being unable to chamber a round.
I do suppose a primer plus a weak charge of powder would be enough to bury a bullet in the barrel. I have personally observed someone at the range shoot an underpowered round that lodged in middle of the barrel. Despite the weird pop sound, the shooter kept firing round after round before the RO could stop him. So even though I say no reasonable person would keep shooting with such a different sound and recoil, this guy is the exception.
It was a Ruger Camp 9 and by the time the RO had stopped him, the barrel was bulged quite nicely in the middle. He had the range gunsmith open up the barrel and found 9 bullets lodged in there. That is a person who should give up reloading. I can only hope he doesn't reload rifle rounds and I REALLY hope he doesn't use his reloads in bullpups.
Re: AR Malfunction
just throwin this in here , but what about an odd ball round .222 mixed in by accident since he does re-load ??
just throwin this in here , but what about an odd ball round .222 mixed in by accident since he does re-load ??
Re: AR Malfunction
The absence of that final shot could be the clue.
If he had a squib or short load, especially a short load, the next load could have been powerful enough to shove both bullets down the barrel saying the first bullet went much of the way down --I'm guessing here. Because I've seen an AR fired after a squib and it split the barrel cartoon style. Luckily that guy wasn't hurt either.
Another, equally damaging situation that often goes under-noticed is when you have a weak or short cartridge. If the round was powerful enough to actually go and then lodge in front of the gas tube, that pressure builds up and has to go somewhere. This can cause an overpressure event even though intuitively you'd expect underpressure. Hard to say if that is what happened here, I'm not an expert at that, but I've heard it happen before. More likely to me seems to be a squib or short followed by another round.
I've loaded some poor 9mm reloads in the beginning. I trusted a powder drop and measured every so many loads on a beam. Still, I ended up with some very weak rounds and one I caught, luckily another soldier at an army range, he caught the next one (boy, had it blown up that would have been some 'splaining!). Had to pull and reload 1000 9mm rounds, and I found 2 squibs and a few shorts. It taught me to be more careful, and so now I just invest the time and do 'em one at a time and weigh each load, but now I use a digital dispenser/scale, still use a single stage, and I measure a lot using my calipers. But I get great accuracy and great consistency, and I can't buy better ammo even when they use the same components at the same velocity.
Always wear GOOD eyepro! I use Gargoyles that are pretty thick ballistic glasses. For shooting and reloading, as well as working with power tools. Sorry, but uh, duh? Seen lots of guys get bad eye damage over the years, some permanent.
I saw a kid in basic training open the cover on a 240B and the round cooked off in his face when he lifted the feed tray. The brass ripped up one of his eyes and tore pretty much half his 18 year old face off. Totally blind in one eye, was blind for weeks in the other. Saw a couple other guys (me too, but I had those Gargoyles) shooting steels with M4's in El Presidente drills at REAL close range. One guy got hot jacket fragments embedded next to his eyeball in the tear duct, another got one on the other edge of his eye. When they hit your lip, you bleed a little and it sucks, they may scratch through your BDU, but losing an eye isn't worth it.
The absence of that final shot could be the clue.
If he had a squib or short load, especially a short load, the next load could have been powerful enough to shove both bullets down the barrel saying the first bullet went much of the way down --I'm guessing here. Because I've seen an AR fired after a squib and it split the barrel cartoon style. Luckily that guy wasn't hurt either.
Another, equally damaging situation that often goes under-noticed is when you have a weak or short cartridge. If the round was powerful enough to actually go and then lodge in front of the gas tube, that pressure builds up and has to go somewhere. This can cause an overpressure event even though intuitively you'd expect underpressure. Hard to say if that is what happened here, I'm not an expert at that, but I've heard it happen before. More likely to me seems to be a squib or short followed by another round.
I've loaded some poor 9mm reloads in the beginning. I trusted a powder drop and measured every so many loads on a beam. Still, I ended up with some very weak rounds and one I caught, luckily another soldier at an army range, he caught the next one (boy, had it blown up that would have been some 'splaining!). Had to pull and reload 1000 9mm rounds, and I found 2 squibs and a few shorts. It taught me to be more careful, and so now I just invest the time and do 'em one at a time and weigh each load, but now I use a digital dispenser/scale, still use a single stage, and I measure a lot using my calipers. But I get great accuracy and great consistency, and I can't buy better ammo even when they use the same components at the same velocity.
Always wear GOOD eyepro! I use Gargoyles that are pretty thick ballistic glasses. For shooting and reloading, as well as working with power tools. Sorry, but uh, duh? Seen lots of guys get bad eye damage over the years, some permanent.
I saw a kid in basic training open the cover on a 240B and the round cooked off in his face when he lifted the feed tray. The brass ripped up one of his eyes and tore pretty much half his 18 year old face off. Totally blind in one eye, was blind for weeks in the other. Saw a couple other guys (me too, but I had those Gargoyles) shooting steels with M4's in El Presidente drills at REAL close range. One guy got hot jacket fragments embedded next to his eyeball in the tear duct, another got one on the other edge of his eye. When they hit your lip, you bleed a little and it sucks, they may scratch through your BDU, but losing an eye isn't worth it.
Re: AR Malfunction
The same thing happened to my buddies S&W AR. they did an investigation on the gun and said it was a squib round got stuck right infront of the chamber then the next bullet firing, the gases had nowhere Togo but outward.. Dented and of the rounds in the mag but all were still live with primers. Pulled all of them of course. He had bought the reloads from a local gun show.
The same thing happened to my buddies S&W AR. they did an investigation on the gun and said it was a squib round got stuck right infront of the chamber then the next bullet firing, the gases had nowhere Togo but outward.. Dented and of the rounds in the mag but all were still live with primers. Pulled all of them of course. He had bought the reloads from a local gun show.
Re: AR Malfunction
When in doubt, if I can't tell where the bullet went or if I don't see the impact/hole on the target I open it up and look down the barrel just to make sure it's clear before firing again. Granted, a pain in the ass on an AR, but better safe than sorry.
When in doubt, if I can't tell where the bullet went or if I don't see the impact/hole on the target I open it up and look down the barrel just to make sure it's clear before firing again. Granted, a pain in the ass on an AR, but better safe than sorry.
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